Ask news.yc: How do I break up with my co-founder?
26 comments
Just this morning I wrote and email to the 3 other people involved in the project I was working on explaining why I was leaving and what I felt the correct split up was.
I had been doing the majority of the work and the rest of the team was not performing to the level I had expected as well as not meeting several deadlines that they had agreed to.
The only real sticky part is that the really great flashy idea was from one of the other people, who has the potential to pull a ConnectU, but not really a leg to stand on.
No one besides me wrote a bit of code, except there was a minimalistic HTML design stuff.
I made sure to explain what my reasons were for the split and why I was leaving and did say that I intended to make something derivative, although not in direct competition. The platform was more interesting to me then the community site that was the other person's idea. So I'll just think it through and find another way to implement the community aspect without the exact implementation that he had.
The bottom line is that this happens and it is better to make the break earlier, especially before the incorporation. Start looking for a new co-founder and get a better sense of their work before you enter into any kind of a partnership.
As for the IP part of it, that's life. If you never share the idea with anyone without legal papers first you'll never share the idea with anyone who will help you with it in the early stages.
Also, make sure that they are on the same page as you concerning work ethics and integrity. They might be able to become a better hacker, but if they are trying to trick people and pulling underhanded stunts that is a direct reflection on you ...
I had been doing the majority of the work and the rest of the team was not performing to the level I had expected as well as not meeting several deadlines that they had agreed to.
The only real sticky part is that the really great flashy idea was from one of the other people, who has the potential to pull a ConnectU, but not really a leg to stand on.
No one besides me wrote a bit of code, except there was a minimalistic HTML design stuff.
I made sure to explain what my reasons were for the split and why I was leaving and did say that I intended to make something derivative, although not in direct competition. The platform was more interesting to me then the community site that was the other person's idea. So I'll just think it through and find another way to implement the community aspect without the exact implementation that he had.
The bottom line is that this happens and it is better to make the break earlier, especially before the incorporation. Start looking for a new co-founder and get a better sense of their work before you enter into any kind of a partnership.
As for the IP part of it, that's life. If you never share the idea with anyone without legal papers first you'll never share the idea with anyone who will help you with it in the early stages.
Also, make sure that they are on the same page as you concerning work ethics and integrity. They might be able to become a better hacker, but if they are trying to trick people and pulling underhanded stunts that is a direct reflection on you ...
Are you completely sure that it can't be salvaged? Have you talked to your co-founder about the sort of work you were expecting? If you've not called them on it previously, they're probably assuming everything is fine. A gentle prod may be all it needs.
If you really must break up (I feel like I'm giving marriage counselling here...) I'm sure you can do it without being an asshole, something along the lines of the letter you've posted here would be fine - to the point and no personal attacks.
As for your partner having your IP now, well that's probably too late now - horse, stable door, bolted etc. I think the best you can manage is to perhaps come up with some sort of agreement (possibly consult a legal-document-writing-type-person to get this in writing) so that you both agree not to sue each other in the event that either one of you does well with it and the other gets sue happy.
Yes, it'll set you back and you'll have to find someone else which is why I suggest you try and work it out first. Otherwise, I'm sure there web sites where you can advertise for this sort of thing ;-)
Failing all of this and you decide to ignore my advice, I would suggest a fight to the death involving pistols at dawn or something.
If you really must break up (I feel like I'm giving marriage counselling here...) I'm sure you can do it without being an asshole, something along the lines of the letter you've posted here would be fine - to the point and no personal attacks.
As for your partner having your IP now, well that's probably too late now - horse, stable door, bolted etc. I think the best you can manage is to perhaps come up with some sort of agreement (possibly consult a legal-document-writing-type-person to get this in writing) so that you both agree not to sue each other in the event that either one of you does well with it and the other gets sue happy.
Yes, it'll set you back and you'll have to find someone else which is why I suggest you try and work it out first. Otherwise, I'm sure there web sites where you can advertise for this sort of thing ;-)
Failing all of this and you decide to ignore my advice, I would suggest a fight to the death involving pistols at dawn or something.
"Are you completely sure that it can't be salvaged? Have you talked to your co-founder about the sort of work you were expecting? If you've not called them on it previously, they're probably assuming everything is fine. A gentle prod may be all it needs."
It's too early to treat it this way. This is a total Splitsville situation.
It's too early to treat it this way. This is a total Splitsville situation.
I couldn't agree more - it's all too easy to construct your own interpretation of what's happening and then convince yourself it's the absolute truth. Before you split you need to talk to your co-founder and at least give him a chance to put his side of the story forward.
i do not condone or suggest any behavior that involves the intentional death of a human.
a) "It's business", move on.
b) Don't let it! Move on, worst thing you could do is drag this on and not be up front and clear cut about it, because then it will drag the life out of the project and you.
c) Talk to your lawyer! IANAL, but -- Have you signed anything? If it's pre-incorporation, and you haven't agreed to anything, it's kind of a non-issue. As for ConnectU, I bet the case gets thrown out anyways, they don't have a very strong case and the judge is already annoyed with them.
d) You answered it yourself, plus you've learned a valuable lesson about getting the legalities out of the way before engaging in any part of the business. A good part of incorporating is so that you have a clear way of dealing with dispute resolutions such as this when they arise (and believe me they will!)
b) Don't let it! Move on, worst thing you could do is drag this on and not be up front and clear cut about it, because then it will drag the life out of the project and you.
c) Talk to your lawyer! IANAL, but -- Have you signed anything? If it's pre-incorporation, and you haven't agreed to anything, it's kind of a non-issue. As for ConnectU, I bet the case gets thrown out anyways, they don't have a very strong case and the judge is already annoyed with them.
d) You answered it yourself, plus you've learned a valuable lesson about getting the legalities out of the way before engaging in any part of the business. A good part of incorporating is so that you have a clear way of dealing with dispute resolutions such as this when they arise (and believe me they will!)
For part c), I suspect he's thinking he's going to be ConnectU trying to prove that the idea was his to begin with.
My suggestion is to try to find something that he's good at, and let him work on that. Otherwise, before you incorporate, sit him down and ask him flat out if he's committed to the project and share your concerns.
Very few projects I've worked on have succeeded without good communication. Sometimes it's just a matter of realizing that you're going to be the one carrying most of the weight (and varying equity to reflect this may be something you want to consider).
My suggestion is to try to find something that he's good at, and let him work on that. Otherwise, before you incorporate, sit him down and ask him flat out if he's committed to the project and share your concerns.
Very few projects I've worked on have succeeded without good communication. Sometimes it's just a matter of realizing that you're going to be the one carrying most of the weight (and varying equity to reflect this may be something you want to consider).
"I suspect he's thinking he's going to be ConnectU trying to prove that the idea was his to begin with."
Then he'd be the one in the team that wasn't delivering. We're taking OP at face value and assuming he is the one that can deliver a product that the world likes and that the other person is lacking in that area.
Then he'd be the one in the team that wasn't delivering. We're taking OP at face value and assuming he is the one that can deliver a product that the world likes and that the other person is lacking in that area.
As I understand it, ConnectU brought Mark Zuckerberg onto the existing project. From there, Zuckerberg allegedly forked the code into what is now known as Facebook. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Facebook)
So assuming OP=ConnectU, the legal issues the OP's afraid of is that his partner will fork the existing code into something successful, even though OP has done most of the work thus far.
At least this is how I interpret it. Please correct me if I'm wrong!
So assuming OP=ConnectU, the legal issues the OP's afraid of is that his partner will fork the existing code into something successful, even though OP has done most of the work thus far.
At least this is how I interpret it. Please correct me if I'm wrong!
We agree in our interpretation, but disagree in whether this is a cause for concern.
If his partner can fork it and build something successful faster than OP, then the OP isn't the productive one and his current deadbeat partner is, the premise of OP is invalid.
Based on the original post, the OP thinks he is the one that can deliver and that his partner can't. If OP can't deliver a product that people want, none of this matters.
That's all I'm saying. You're assuming that ConnectU would have been successful if Facebook hadn't happened. I don't believe that to be the case.
If his partner can fork it and build something successful faster than OP, then the OP isn't the productive one and his current deadbeat partner is, the premise of OP is invalid.
Based on the original post, the OP thinks he is the one that can deliver and that his partner can't. If OP can't deliver a product that people want, none of this matters.
That's all I'm saying. You're assuming that ConnectU would have been successful if Facebook hadn't happened. I don't believe that to be the case.
I agree that we agree in our interpretation... =)
I thought of this analogy in terms of existing code (rather than being able to deliver, because OP's partner could take the idea and find someone else to do the code). The OP wrote the existing code, which is allegedly what happened to ConnectU. Of course, if you discount the allegations and assume that Zuckerberg wrote the code himself, then the existing code argument is irrelevant.
This is an interesting debate that can actually be answered if the OP chimed in to explain what he meant!
Re ConnectU: I never assumed that ConnectU would have been successful if Facebook hadn't happened. In fact, I believe that the only way ConnectU would have been successful is if Mark Zuckerberg stayed on that project (or _maybe_ if ConnectU made him sign a NCA).
I thought of this analogy in terms of existing code (rather than being able to deliver, because OP's partner could take the idea and find someone else to do the code). The OP wrote the existing code, which is allegedly what happened to ConnectU. Of course, if you discount the allegations and assume that Zuckerberg wrote the code himself, then the existing code argument is irrelevant.
This is an interesting debate that can actually be answered if the OP chimed in to explain what he meant!
Re ConnectU: I never assumed that ConnectU would have been successful if Facebook hadn't happened. In fact, I believe that the only way ConnectU would have been successful is if Mark Zuckerberg stayed on that project (or _maybe_ if ConnectU made him sign a NCA).
a) personal-- not being an asshole.
-- if you know its going to be an issue, its going to be a bigger one later. do what is fair and right as soon as possible. if you need to go your own ways, thats what you need to do, there is always a new twist on an old idea waiting to be developed. having been through this on the other side, i started a company a while ago, sensed things were not right and then after i spent an additional 100k on salaries and training, the guys left with jobs at another company and i was left with nothing. as an entrepreneur you have to learn to trust your gut it will allow you to make the first move advantage.
b) operational-- not having this suck the life out of the project
--it may, and you will have to face that. most likely you can say that you share ownership of the code/ idea and you can not exclude each other from using it, else release it to the public domain and make sure that either of you can use it along with the world. the value in something is being able to move it forward, not in what you have already produced. if you are so early in the company its likely that you have not produced enough to directly execute, you will need to still move the code/ project forwards. quite a bit.
c) legal -- I don't want a Facebook/ConnectU situation down the road
-- rethink the problem and solution, for our group, we agreed to own our own code up until the point it was real, maybe you loose a bit of the code, but if there was no nda between members you can go off an recreate it with your own twist. not every idea is novel and unless the patent process was started then that maybe your defense moving forwards.
d) strategic -- not that I expect it to happen, but what's to stop my-soon-to-be-ex-co-founder from taking the idea and finding someone else to execute it? [insert standard boilerplate here about ideas being worth nothing without execution]
consumers like choice and having core differences in values between two competing products helps define the market better and broader. if you are going to compete head to head with a co-founder i am sure you are going to have different core values to derive as a niche. but, even though you are competing, you will be sharing the burden of advertising and developing your market. Java, helped sell .Net; friendster, helped sell MySpace and Facebook; hotmail, helped sell gmail, etc.... competition is good, and a market without any might not be much of a market at all. do not fear the genre, find ways to embrace it.
you might find that you can form two separate businesses that share an initial code base and your partner might go for it if he feels you are driving the company in the wrong direction too.
-- if you know its going to be an issue, its going to be a bigger one later. do what is fair and right as soon as possible. if you need to go your own ways, thats what you need to do, there is always a new twist on an old idea waiting to be developed. having been through this on the other side, i started a company a while ago, sensed things were not right and then after i spent an additional 100k on salaries and training, the guys left with jobs at another company and i was left with nothing. as an entrepreneur you have to learn to trust your gut it will allow you to make the first move advantage.
b) operational-- not having this suck the life out of the project
--it may, and you will have to face that. most likely you can say that you share ownership of the code/ idea and you can not exclude each other from using it, else release it to the public domain and make sure that either of you can use it along with the world. the value in something is being able to move it forward, not in what you have already produced. if you are so early in the company its likely that you have not produced enough to directly execute, you will need to still move the code/ project forwards. quite a bit.
c) legal -- I don't want a Facebook/ConnectU situation down the road
-- rethink the problem and solution, for our group, we agreed to own our own code up until the point it was real, maybe you loose a bit of the code, but if there was no nda between members you can go off an recreate it with your own twist. not every idea is novel and unless the patent process was started then that maybe your defense moving forwards.
d) strategic -- not that I expect it to happen, but what's to stop my-soon-to-be-ex-co-founder from taking the idea and finding someone else to execute it? [insert standard boilerplate here about ideas being worth nothing without execution]
consumers like choice and having core differences in values between two competing products helps define the market better and broader. if you are going to compete head to head with a co-founder i am sure you are going to have different core values to derive as a niche. but, even though you are competing, you will be sharing the burden of advertising and developing your market. Java, helped sell .Net; friendster, helped sell MySpace and Facebook; hotmail, helped sell gmail, etc.... competition is good, and a market without any might not be much of a market at all. do not fear the genre, find ways to embrace it.
you might find that you can form two separate businesses that share an initial code base and your partner might go for it if he feels you are driving the company in the wrong direction too.
Some good advice:
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/p/paul+simon/50+ways+to+leave+you...
I can't comment on (c) but:
a: Just be open about your reasons. It isn't a personal attack to say someone is a slow/inefficient worker.
b: Work away from the partner. I hope you aren't roommates
c: Ideas aren't worth much, and it sounds like your friend isn't the competition to worry about.
I would follow the advice you hear when you read about how to quit: be direct, polite, in a private/scheduled meeting, and open.
I can't comment on (c) but:
a: Just be open about your reasons. It isn't a personal attack to say someone is a slow/inefficient worker.
b: Work away from the partner. I hope you aren't roommates
c: Ideas aren't worth much, and it sounds like your friend isn't the competition to worry about.
I would follow the advice you hear when you read about how to quit: be direct, polite, in a private/scheduled meeting, and open.
Kill the company/project/idea. If you really like the idea, start fresh with new code, new names, etc etc. Your company is way to young to be having this type of problem. It will only get worse.
I'd offer them a copy of the whole thing and let 'em compete if they want to. Or buy them out for a few grand. Or put the idea on the shelf and pursue something else.
Or tell them YOU want out for personal reasons, but you'd like to have a written agreement saying you could pursue this on your own down the road at some point.
Next time get a boilerplate buy/sell agreement as early as you can... It's like a prenup and provides clear guidelines for parting ways.
Or tell them YOU want out for personal reasons, but you'd like to have a written agreement saying you could pursue this on your own down the road at some point.
Next time get a boilerplate buy/sell agreement as early as you can... It's like a prenup and provides clear guidelines for parting ways.
Ask the other person what they think is fair. 90% of the time the other person will underestimate their own value relative to what you were going to offer anyway.
Three possible solutions to this quandry:
a) Annoy your co-founder like a nagging girlfriend and he will break up with you instead of you breaking up with him. Everytime he uploads a new file or makes a change, complain about it. Ask him to work longer hours or pay you through equity to work longer hours. Find new ways to nag him to no end. Pretty soon he will find you terrible and give up, giving you the project and you will never have to worry again.
If solution "A" doesn't solve the problem move to solution B.
b) Cut and run, now. When you become a multi-millionaire he may go after you. Even if he does, well you are a multi-millionaire and have the money to fight (aka FaceBook).
If solution "B" doesn't solve the problem move to solution C.
c) Program naked, demand that your co-founder be there so you can collaborate closer to come up with the best product. Tell him you won't program unless if he is there.
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I believe you have a self-confidence problem, it is very important to be confident in yourself. If your partner is not pulling his weight and you are not far enough into the project to determine if it is worth a red hot cent then it is a great time to split.
Then give him everything you have done and set it up for him on another server. You program on your copy, he programs on his copy, if he ever bothers. I am sure he won't so that means that you will never owe him anything.
a) Annoy your co-founder like a nagging girlfriend and he will break up with you instead of you breaking up with him. Everytime he uploads a new file or makes a change, complain about it. Ask him to work longer hours or pay you through equity to work longer hours. Find new ways to nag him to no end. Pretty soon he will find you terrible and give up, giving you the project and you will never have to worry again.
If solution "A" doesn't solve the problem move to solution B.
b) Cut and run, now. When you become a multi-millionaire he may go after you. Even if he does, well you are a multi-millionaire and have the money to fight (aka FaceBook).
If solution "B" doesn't solve the problem move to solution C.
c) Program naked, demand that your co-founder be there so you can collaborate closer to come up with the best product. Tell him you won't program unless if he is there.
---
I believe you have a self-confidence problem, it is very important to be confident in yourself. If your partner is not pulling his weight and you are not far enough into the project to determine if it is worth a red hot cent then it is a great time to split.
Then give him everything you have done and set it up for him on another server. You program on your copy, he programs on his copy, if he ever bothers. I am sure he won't so that means that you will never owe him anything.
I want to add this, I was in a situation where I had a co-founder who didn't program much except doing some html and I had to do all of the code. He was also supposed to sell the accounts and we would split the money coming in 50/50.
That system was www.profolios.com which I am very proud of, I made it in about 2003 and it works pretty good (although the html design is dated the backend code is excellent).
We parted ways, I left him with the code and I have the code too. I have not decided to do anything with it yet but one day I might.
This was the most equitable solution because I didn't want to leave him hanging. He did try on his part to contribute but things just didn't work out. Life is like that but now he is happy and I am perfectly happy too. I eventually found a domain modelcoach.com on tdnam.com and picked it up. One day I might revamp the model system code and put it back out there as a service. I just have been focusing in on other things.
That system was www.profolios.com which I am very proud of, I made it in about 2003 and it works pretty good (although the html design is dated the backend code is excellent).
We parted ways, I left him with the code and I have the code too. I have not decided to do anything with it yet but one day I might.
This was the most equitable solution because I didn't want to leave him hanging. He did try on his part to contribute but things just didn't work out. Life is like that but now he is happy and I am perfectly happy too. I eventually found a domain modelcoach.com on tdnam.com and picked it up. One day I might revamp the model system code and put it back out there as a service. I just have been focusing in on other things.
No worries, when you get frustrated enough none of the above four points will matter. You'd do anything to get rid of him.
All that is assuming you have a valid case against him not contributing--and not just "we don't get along".
All that is assuming you have a valid case against him not contributing--and not just "we don't get along".
I would suggest that "we dont get along" if really true is a good a reason as any to split. If you're not getting along now and have really tried its not going to get any better.
Just one question.
What did your partner feels about your work?
What did your partner feels about your work?
Do you want to move on because you aren't making much progress with them, or you are making progress in spite of them (they are slowing you down)?
Are you sure it can't be salvaged? How about just having a frank discussion? You might be surprised.
This isn't a marriage, and if you want to use the analog, then it sounds like the "child" is still-born and really wasn't the original posters to begin with. The time to leave is now. I doesn't get cheaper, easier, or less legally entangling, later on.
Hire slow and fire fast applies to co-founders as well as employees. More, even. An employee can drain a lot of value from a company, but a co-founder can destroy it single-handedly.
Hire slow and fire fast applies to co-founders as well as employees. More, even. An employee can drain a lot of value from a company, but a co-founder can destroy it single-handedly.
There are two of us. We are pre-incorporation. I had the original idea. We have done some brainstorming/discussing, and as things start to get more concrete, I'm finding out that my co-founder is not generating the quality of work that I had expected, and the personalities don't match quite right. I don't feel comfortable going forward with this person as my partner.
How do I break up with my co-founder?
My concerns:
a) personal-- not being an asshole.
b) operational-- not having this suck the life out of the project
c) legal -- I don't want a Facebook/ConnectU situation down the road
d) strategic -- not that I expect it to happen, but what's to stop my-soon-to-be-ex-co-founder from taking the idea and finding someone else to execute it? [insert standard boilerplate here about ideas being worth nothing without execution]
ideas?
(submitted anonymously for obvious reasons)