Show HN: A community for designers to hone their skills, critique and share work
38 comments
I am a UX guy who specializes in community design, and I see some fundamental areas you should work on:
1.) How is this better than Dribbble; a popular, well-respected site with precisely the same pitch? That's not a criticism so much as something to think about.
2.) You forgot half of your target audience. Community like this has two user types that support each other: designers and critiquers. Ideally the critiquers are designers too, but these are two separate behaviours, and your site is designed for one of them. You're never going to reach critical mass until you cater more to the majority (non-uploading, non-commenting lurkers).
3.) It's hard to browse. The start page has a few clickable images and once you choose one, you're doomed if it wasn't something you like. I bet the exit rate (Google Analytics) on that second page is through the roof... what should I do next if I didn't like it? Hit the back button? That's a no-no.
4.) The users are too downplayed. In a community like this, people discover the users through their content. Then they want to follow and see more, which motivates registrations. You should make it obvious who has posted each design, with a clear link to see more.
5.) You did a good job of selling the concept on the start page, and the path to registration is obvious and clear, but I don't want to sign up for something as time-consuming as a community without trying it and exploring a bit first. That's the part that isn't so great right now.
6.) I don't get the metaphor. Is it military or something?
7.) On a purely aesthetic level, you might consider simplifying your brand... there are a lot of colors, and mid-tones, and textures, and geometry, and it's forcing you to use lots of boxes and stuff. It's hard on the eyes. Pick a couple colors, a motif/pattern or two, and reduce, re-use, and recycle. ;)
Good Luck! Nice effort so far!
1.) How is this better than Dribbble; a popular, well-respected site with precisely the same pitch? That's not a criticism so much as something to think about.
2.) You forgot half of your target audience. Community like this has two user types that support each other: designers and critiquers. Ideally the critiquers are designers too, but these are two separate behaviours, and your site is designed for one of them. You're never going to reach critical mass until you cater more to the majority (non-uploading, non-commenting lurkers).
3.) It's hard to browse. The start page has a few clickable images and once you choose one, you're doomed if it wasn't something you like. I bet the exit rate (Google Analytics) on that second page is through the roof... what should I do next if I didn't like it? Hit the back button? That's a no-no.
4.) The users are too downplayed. In a community like this, people discover the users through their content. Then they want to follow and see more, which motivates registrations. You should make it obvious who has posted each design, with a clear link to see more.
5.) You did a good job of selling the concept on the start page, and the path to registration is obvious and clear, but I don't want to sign up for something as time-consuming as a community without trying it and exploring a bit first. That's the part that isn't so great right now.
6.) I don't get the metaphor. Is it military or something?
7.) On a purely aesthetic level, you might consider simplifying your brand... there are a lot of colors, and mid-tones, and textures, and geometry, and it's forcing you to use lots of boxes and stuff. It's hard on the eyes. Pick a couple colors, a motif/pattern or two, and reduce, re-use, and recycle. ;)
Good Luck! Nice effort so far!
I've seen a lot of back-and-forth about using Dribbble as a critiquing platform. People opposed to receiving such feedback say that they didn't ask for it and that it's rude to assume that uploading something to the site means that they're open to suggestions about it. Personally, my stance is that if you knowingly upload something to a site that has a comment boxes, you're asking for it.
That being said, most people use the site as a means of self-promotion, so they use their real names. As such, they aren't comfortable providing the raw feedback a lot of us are looking for. I don't personally have a problem with people being able to anon their comments - obviously someone deemed them worthy enough to be there to begin with - so long as there are ways to mitigate abuse.
That being said, most people use the site as a means of self-promotion, so they use their real names. As such, they aren't comfortable providing the raw feedback a lot of us are looking for. I don't personally have a problem with people being able to anon their comments - obviously someone deemed them worthy enough to be there to begin with - so long as there are ways to mitigate abuse.
We were thinking of directly tying your Swrm profile to something like LinkedIn, and in keeping with our vision of honesty, essentially prevent users from being anonymous. What do you think?
It's tough; people are always going to want to base your judgment against your own work, but you don't need to be a designer to 'get' design, just as anyone can call themselves a designer to begin with.
If I'm an influential designer and my identity is known to the critics, it will have an effect on their responses. Likewise, if someone with a lot of followers critiques me, it will weigh heavier than the rest of the feedback simply because people equate of # followers with quality/experience/etc (even though that isn't always the case). I think for this reason, anonymity is at least important in the early stages so as not to skew results. Maybe give a week or two window to shuffle some people through, or wait until it hits a certain comment threshold, and then let the poster determine if they want the thread to go public or stay private.
I'm personally more apt to give better advice if I know my comments aren't going to be ignored right-off-the-bat based on my age, gender or job history, to be honest.
As far as incentive to keep coming to the site and giving legitimately good feedback, give them credit that they could display on their site, like a StackOverflow badge, provided that Swrm has a reputation like StackExchange and not one like Klout, where people will actually be proud of it because it means something.
What are your perspectives on keeping people from being anon?
If I'm an influential designer and my identity is known to the critics, it will have an effect on their responses. Likewise, if someone with a lot of followers critiques me, it will weigh heavier than the rest of the feedback simply because people equate of # followers with quality/experience/etc (even though that isn't always the case). I think for this reason, anonymity is at least important in the early stages so as not to skew results. Maybe give a week or two window to shuffle some people through, or wait until it hits a certain comment threshold, and then let the poster determine if they want the thread to go public or stay private.
I'm personally more apt to give better advice if I know my comments aren't going to be ignored right-off-the-bat based on my age, gender or job history, to be honest.
As far as incentive to keep coming to the site and giving legitimately good feedback, give them credit that they could display on their site, like a StackOverflow badge, provided that Swrm has a reputation like StackExchange and not one like Klout, where people will actually be proud of it because it means something.
What are your perspectives on keeping people from being anon?
That's a really nice perspective, and probably not one I would come up with intuitively. If I understand you correctly and may paraphrase, keeping it anonymous will prevent skewed perceptions on weight of opinion based on "clout", and rather keep it relatively anonymous and base clout on positive contribution, with the addition of opportunity to show off positive contribution elsewhere?
Another member of the Swrm team here. Thank you for your detailed feedback!
Re: 1) Although we are aware of dribbble, Swrm addresses a fundamentally different issue: Getting an honest, helpful critique of one's work. While dribbble may be a great platform for showcasing finished design work, it has a natural tendency to promote only works which it considers "best of the best". This is reflected in its feedback system, where comments are most often overly positive. Swrm is built on the realization that good design work is generally the result of a lengthy, iterative process rather than a flash of genius at the hands of an especially "talented" designer. By focusing on the process, we want to enable anyone to continuously improve their work.
Re: 2) Making designers and critiquers "come together" is one of the top items we're working on, especially to encourage critiquers to provide constructive feedback. I'm not sure whether you considered "lurking" to be one of the "two separate behaviors", but besides encouraging active participation I think this is just a general property of people on the web.
I agree on your remaining points – Thanks again for taking the time.
Re: 1) Although we are aware of dribbble, Swrm addresses a fundamentally different issue: Getting an honest, helpful critique of one's work. While dribbble may be a great platform for showcasing finished design work, it has a natural tendency to promote only works which it considers "best of the best". This is reflected in its feedback system, where comments are most often overly positive. Swrm is built on the realization that good design work is generally the result of a lengthy, iterative process rather than a flash of genius at the hands of an especially "talented" designer. By focusing on the process, we want to enable anyone to continuously improve their work.
Re: 2) Making designers and critiquers "come together" is one of the top items we're working on, especially to encourage critiquers to provide constructive feedback. I'm not sure whether you considered "lurking" to be one of the "two separate behaviors", but besides encouraging active participation I think this is just a general property of people on the web.
I agree on your remaining points – Thanks again for taking the time.
Fantastic.
For #1... maybe the real feedback is that I didn't understand that. But fair enough. I don't disagree with your goal. :)
For #2... you're right, and my point was that there is nothing for those lurkers (or "pre-contributors") to do. The community is very singular in its focus, and that focus is on the minority. A "browse" page or a footer full of browsable suggestions would be worth a lot.
For #1... maybe the real feedback is that I didn't understand that. But fair enough. I don't disagree with your goal. :)
For #2... you're right, and my point was that there is nothing for those lurkers (or "pre-contributors") to do. The community is very singular in its focus, and that focus is on the minority. A "browse" page or a footer full of browsable suggestions would be worth a lot.
Hi Joel, this is some excellent feedback! Thanks for checking out swrm.io. We hope to take your suggestions everyone elses into account for our future updates. Is there anything else worthwhile exploring, other than your suggestions so far?
Anything else I noticed seems insignificant compared to those ones.
One note though, in response to a comment above... be careful not to "force" people to be honest; they might leave instead. Motivate them to be honest by rewarding honesty and making it clear how they are rewarded. Feedback loops are your friend. ;)
One note though, in response to a comment above... be careful not to "force" people to be honest; they might leave instead. Motivate them to be honest by rewarding honesty and making it clear how they are rewarded. Feedback loops are your friend. ;)
Absolutely. There's a huge psychological and group mentality thing with this project the team and I are working through right now. There's a huge risk in it spiraling towards being too negative or also too superficial. We're trying to keep a balance with meaningful, constructive feedback, similar to this site to be honest.
The design is nice. The site is simple and easy to understand how to use, but the simplicity kind of leaves me wanting more. There is definitely something up with the interactive elements, noticeable delays on each page. Might be worth introducing some type of visual feedback that indicates the page hasn't completed rendering.
Well, ideally, we would scale to loading wouldn't be an issue. But you're totally right, we need to be giving users more feedback. Any suggestions in terms of particularly painful screens? Thanks for using the site!
First, cool idea, being a designer I know how much a good critique can really help you polish your design and really improve it (so long as you don't take it personally).
Second, how does the process go once you do improve on your design and heed the advice given, can you upload your new design (replace the old one, show them side to side, represent a timeline of the iteration?) will it tell the people who critiqued that you followed their advice? and will your old design, having already been polished and finished, will it stay on there forever continuing to get critiqued on things that have been fixed already?
looks good I'll probably upload something soon, good luck
ps: if I did upload something are there any other incentives other than the critique (like maybe a linkback to a site) just curious.
Second, how does the process go once you do improve on your design and heed the advice given, can you upload your new design (replace the old one, show them side to side, represent a timeline of the iteration?) will it tell the people who critiqued that you followed their advice? and will your old design, having already been polished and finished, will it stay on there forever continuing to get critiqued on things that have been fixed already?
looks good I'll probably upload something soon, good luck
ps: if I did upload something are there any other incentives other than the critique (like maybe a linkback to a site) just curious.
Your second point is almost exactly what we're looking to impliment in version 2! We want to give the designs you make a "life", so you can see the process and progress towards the final product. You can imagine this evolving into a sort of "portfolio timeline" view, where you and other users can see your progress and improvements over both one single design, as well as all of your designs.
In terms of other incentives, we are looking into that now, and we would love some suggestions if you have any!
In terms of other incentives, we are looking into that now, and we would love some suggestions if you have any!
The site looks great.
One piece of feedback- on Chrome Version 23.0.1271.91, the "Rate Artwork" slider doesn't have any kind of scale or visual confirmation of what score I'm giving- I'm assuming moving the slider left indicates that I'm saying that I don't like the design and right that I like it. Is this a bug or by design?
One piece of feedback- on Chrome Version 23.0.1271.91, the "Rate Artwork" slider doesn't have any kind of scale or visual confirmation of what score I'm giving- I'm assuming moving the slider left indicates that I'm saying that I don't like the design and right that I like it. Is this a bug or by design?
Thanks! Yes, we know that's a problem, and we're working on it. We were thinking of adding a number on the thumb of the slider that changes as you move it. What do you think?
That can work.
Or even a static scale at the low and high end, with the slider calculating a score in the background. That way you're not distracting the rater with changing numbers.
Or even more simply, why not just have a Thumbs Up and Thumbs Down icons (with "no selection" being a neutral score) instead of a slider? You either like a design or you don't- do you really care about how much you like or dislike something (unless you're tracking exact scores in the background for some kind of a ranking system)?
Or even a static scale at the low and high end, with the slider calculating a score in the background. That way you're not distracting the rater with changing numbers.
Or even more simply, why not just have a Thumbs Up and Thumbs Down icons (with "no selection" being a neutral score) instead of a slider? You either like a design or you don't- do you really care about how much you like or dislike something (unless you're tracking exact scores in the background for some kind of a ranking system)?
Awesome suggestion. Thanks!
For some reason on Chrome Version 23.0.1271.64 OSX 10.8.2 gave me a blank white page for like 10 seconds before the page loaded. Is everything pulled in via javascript or something?
Glad I waited though site looks beautiful.
Glad I waited though site looks beautiful.
We just pushed a major performance upgrade; The delay should be fixed now.
Thanks for waiting!
Thanks for the feedback. I have a feeling we're pulling full-rez images to display before showing the page (I'm the designer, I can dev to speak a bit more about it). We are trying to figure out a smart way to resize images to lighten the load. Thanks for the feedback about the design! Sign up and play around.
I don't like the design, it's way too cluttered. Needs less colors and more space between the elements.
I love the concept though and I definitely see myself using something like this.
I love the concept though and I definitely see myself using something like this.
Thanks for the feedback. Is there anything else you think we can do to make it more enticing for you to use?
Clickers: http://swrm.io
Sorry about that, I couldn't figure out a way to make it a hyperlink.
Feel free to ask anything, but really we would love to get feedback on the idea / site etc. We're just getting started
This is actually a really good idea for crowdsourcing design feedback. I like.
Thanks! Ya we're just getting started, trying to validate the design / concept. Any other feedback? I hope you use it!
I created an account and added some comments to existing designs. Noticed that I could up vote my comment, not sure if that is intentional or not. Maybe just start comments off at 1?
Thanks for signing up and using the site. Hmm, starting at 1 is not a bad idea, but also, upvoting your own stuff makes sense; you just think the comment is THAT good. :)
Maybe I am misunderstanding the intent of the point system, but in what situation would I upload something and NOT give myself a point? If none, then you are just giving me one more step to perform after each comment.
You are right; do you think giving you a point automatically is confusing at all?
Basically, we created a feedback platform, and launched it as a tool to allow designers to crowdsource feedback from other designers. The idea is that this tool would allow designers to improve, share knowledge, learn new skills, and consistently deliver their best work.
There's a lot that still needs to get done, including making money, letting posts die out after a certain time, and making the site faster by generating image thumbnails.
Any feedback would be appreciated and I'd be happy to answer any questions. Feel free to sign up. Thanks!