Ask HN: What are the best jobs to help me learn how to code on the side?
2 comments
Do you want to work with technology or be a software engineer? There are plenty of careers that deal with using or creating software that aren't software engineering. Product management, UX, product research roles for the development side and solutions engineers and solutions architect roles for the services side comes to mind.
There is also demand for people with real world experience to join software companies to help build software for their previous Industry. I could be the best developer in the world, but any legal software I could make would suck because I don't know anything about the legal industry.
Also coding/programming is a skill, not a job. You don't have to be an engineer to code. Similar to how not everyone who writes is an author. Learning to code and wanting to become a software engineer is advertised as the same thing, but its really not. Also the job of a software engineer really isn't coding past a certain point, its taking fuzzy business requirements and turning them into technical specifications capable of being implemented. Coding is just a detail at that point, like pouring concrete is a detail of construction to an architect.
I would recommend automating tasks at or building tools for your current job. I personally started in tech support and moved into engineering. But 95% of the people who were in tech support with me are either still in support or moved into services, so its not exactly a golden path. I was only able to make the switch because I was building tools for other support reps, and I was able to pivot that into a full time internal tools developer position.
Also bootcamps have peaked. Maybe do one out of interest, but don't expect it to turn easily into a full time position like its 2015.
There is also demand for people with real world experience to join software companies to help build software for their previous Industry. I could be the best developer in the world, but any legal software I could make would suck because I don't know anything about the legal industry.
Also coding/programming is a skill, not a job. You don't have to be an engineer to code. Similar to how not everyone who writes is an author. Learning to code and wanting to become a software engineer is advertised as the same thing, but its really not. Also the job of a software engineer really isn't coding past a certain point, its taking fuzzy business requirements and turning them into technical specifications capable of being implemented. Coding is just a detail at that point, like pouring concrete is a detail of construction to an architect.
I would recommend automating tasks at or building tools for your current job. I personally started in tech support and moved into engineering. But 95% of the people who were in tech support with me are either still in support or moved into services, so its not exactly a golden path. I was only able to make the switch because I was building tools for other support reps, and I was able to pivot that into a full time internal tools developer position.
Also bootcamps have peaked. Maybe do one out of interest, but don't expect it to turn easily into a full time position like its 2015.
Oh, and forgot to say: I also don't think learning coding on the job is realistic. Learning a new framework or language if you already know other ones, sure. But learning to code at all, just to start? Probably not.
Big companies are hyper-specialized and have many different types of coders, each of which can't do the others' jobs as effectively. They rarely have sufficient training or cross proficiency programs between them, much less for someone else in the company who doesn't code at all.
Smaller companies will need you to wear many hats and use different skills to a lower (but still adequate) proficiency, but that's not the same as not knowing how to do any of it.
What coworkers CAN offer is exposure. Like if you joined a company doing legal work but regularly working with product owners, project managers, UX designers, marketers, frontend, backend, devops, QA, SRE, etc., you can get a better feel for what each of those roles is like, and that can help inform what you might want to learn.
Big companies are hyper-specialized and have many different types of coders, each of which can't do the others' jobs as effectively. They rarely have sufficient training or cross proficiency programs between them, much less for someone else in the company who doesn't code at all.
Smaller companies will need you to wear many hats and use different skills to a lower (but still adequate) proficiency, but that's not the same as not knowing how to do any of it.
What coworkers CAN offer is exposure. Like if you joined a company doing legal work but regularly working with product owners, project managers, UX designers, marketers, frontend, backend, devops, QA, SRE, etc., you can get a better feel for what each of those roles is like, and that can help inform what you might want to learn.
(sorry dexwiz, I replied to the wrong parent... meant to reply to my own topic instead, oops)
Hey OP,
I'm not sure if you're aware, but this is a really tough time to try to enter the industry. We've had a few hundred thousand layoffs these last couple years, and many experienced and inexperienced devs are having trouble finding work. Personally I don't think many of those jobs are coming back, between it being a bubble to begin with and increased efficiencies from AI.
But if you're keen on trying to break in anyway, one route that used to work is just learning WordPress and doing freelance (like on Upwork) or local small biz stuff. It's relatively easy to go from WordPress to any other frontend job (it all boils to HTML, CSS, JS). React coding is similar enough to PHP that if shouldn't be too hard to learn. But IMHO there isn't much job security there, and by the time you get up to speed, it's probably going to be even deader than it is now already. You'll be competing for crumbs against people like me with decades of experience not making much money, and also hordes of devs from developing countries who are just as skilled and cost ten times less. We are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to developers. Easy to start, easy to replace.
Since you're coming from the legal sector, I wonder if compliance (or these days, AI "alignment") might not be more lucrative for you? There are companies who focus on GDPR and similar privacy compliance, for example, like OneTrust. All the terrible cookie banners you see have a lawyer or ten behind them.
If it's specifically coding you want to learn, don't spend too much money on a boot camp. The career prospects right now are dim to nonexistent. Just do something cheap online, like LinkedIn Learning or Codecademy or Coursera or Frontend Masters. Or take a evening or online coding class at your local community college.
But it feels to me that much of the industry is moving towards AI, so if you don't want to get left behind like the rest of us, maybe find coursework dedicated to that? Traditional coding is getting less and less valuable, and will probably continue to decrease in worth as the AI models get better. They're already better coders than most real-world decelopers I know, myself included.
That doesn't mean they're better at actually translating business requirements into apps (yet), but it does mean a few seniors with AI can do the jobs that used to require bigger teams, making it harder for juniors to join and get experience. If you had done this a few years ago you would be golden, but right now you're entering at the bottom of a cycle (or near it; I think we have a bit further to fall yet).
Sorry for the pessimism here! I think coding is a fun skill to have, but just don't expect it to be the road to riches it was a decade ago. If you want to learn just for its own sake, there are great cheap resources online. If you're hoping for an immediate career, I don't think that's going to be easy unless you can laterally enter the sector as a legal professional and not a coder.
Either way, though, best of luck to you!
I'm not sure if you're aware, but this is a really tough time to try to enter the industry. We've had a few hundred thousand layoffs these last couple years, and many experienced and inexperienced devs are having trouble finding work. Personally I don't think many of those jobs are coming back, between it being a bubble to begin with and increased efficiencies from AI.
But if you're keen on trying to break in anyway, one route that used to work is just learning WordPress and doing freelance (like on Upwork) or local small biz stuff. It's relatively easy to go from WordPress to any other frontend job (it all boils to HTML, CSS, JS). React coding is similar enough to PHP that if shouldn't be too hard to learn. But IMHO there isn't much job security there, and by the time you get up to speed, it's probably going to be even deader than it is now already. You'll be competing for crumbs against people like me with decades of experience not making much money, and also hordes of devs from developing countries who are just as skilled and cost ten times less. We are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to developers. Easy to start, easy to replace.
Since you're coming from the legal sector, I wonder if compliance (or these days, AI "alignment") might not be more lucrative for you? There are companies who focus on GDPR and similar privacy compliance, for example, like OneTrust. All the terrible cookie banners you see have a lawyer or ten behind them.
If it's specifically coding you want to learn, don't spend too much money on a boot camp. The career prospects right now are dim to nonexistent. Just do something cheap online, like LinkedIn Learning or Codecademy or Coursera or Frontend Masters. Or take a evening or online coding class at your local community college.
But it feels to me that much of the industry is moving towards AI, so if you don't want to get left behind like the rest of us, maybe find coursework dedicated to that? Traditional coding is getting less and less valuable, and will probably continue to decrease in worth as the AI models get better. They're already better coders than most real-world decelopers I know, myself included.
That doesn't mean they're better at actually translating business requirements into apps (yet), but it does mean a few seniors with AI can do the jobs that used to require bigger teams, making it harder for juniors to join and get experience. If you had done this a few years ago you would be golden, but right now you're entering at the bottom of a cycle (or near it; I think we have a bit further to fall yet).
Sorry for the pessimism here! I think coding is a fun skill to have, but just don't expect it to be the road to riches it was a decade ago. If you want to learn just for its own sake, there are great cheap resources online. If you're hoping for an immediate career, I don't think that's going to be easy unless you can laterally enter the sector as a legal professional and not a coder.
Either way, though, best of luck to you!
I had a question, partly inspired by a post someone made here a few years ago about what's the fastest way to become employable in tech.
I didn't study CS and am beginning to learn about programming in the evenings as my current job (Legal sector, non-technical) is unrelated.
At the moment I'm still just learning and doing it for fun but it'd be nice if there was a potential path to doing it for money/being employed one day, if I still enjoy it.
I know obviously any job would work, but are there specific types of jobs you'd recommend that are more "tech-adjacent" so I could, to some extent, learn on the job?
An example someone used in the previous thread was trying to work in tech support, like an entry job in quality assurance/control (QA/QC), or a tech support role at a small/mid-sized startup. (was also curious if you'd heavily priortise in-person roles to learn from colleagues, or whether it doesn't matter and hybrid/remote roles would suffice - I don't have a preference for the right job, I'm UK-based btw)
I was just curious if there are options where I could work around/with software developers and be exposed to more technology during my day job, to then help with learning programming in the evenings/weekends. Or, would you just recommend doing a bootcamp?
I know this journey is for the long haul, but was curious if there are any types of jobs I should be targeting: where I can get good exposure to programming and tech in general, without having the experience.