'Atomic Energy' Book Signed by Einstein, Oppenheimer, Bohr, Enola Gay Crew(rrauction.com)
rrauction.com
'Atomic Energy' Book Signed by Einstein, Oppenheimer, Bohr, Enola Gay Crew
https://www.rrauction.com/auctions/lot-detail/347934706696090-manhattan-project-atomic-bomb-signed-book-with-einstein-oppenheimer-bohr-enola-gay-crew-nobel-prize-winners-and-nuclear-researchers
10 comments
> It's labelled 1942 NEW MEXICO TRINITY, she apparently was involved in the manhattan project somehow.
Tritinite souvenirs were popular until the government made it illegal to collect it.
Someone from that era possessing a piece doesn’t mean they were part of the Manhattan Project.
Tritinite souvenirs were popular until the government made it illegal to collect it.
Someone from that era possessing a piece doesn’t mean they were part of the Manhattan Project.
I'm going by what I was told and photos I saw...
Why are Americans always so quick to cast shade? This is the comments section, I'm not about to write an essay about all the details here.
Why are Americans always so quick to cast shade? This is the comments section, I'm not about to write an essay about all the details here.
Because you didn’t mention any photos? You just said you found a piece of tritinite, not that you found photos and stories of her involvement.
Sorry, not trying to “cast shade”. Just trying to clarify they tritinite by itself isn’t exceptionally rare nor did it require involvement in the Manhattan Project to acquire. You can buy pieces of it online from places like United Nuclear.
Sorry, not trying to “cast shade”. Just trying to clarify they tritinite by itself isn’t exceptionally rare nor did it require involvement in the Manhattan Project to acquire. You can buy pieces of it online from places like United Nuclear.
They got rid of that gif on their front page that had the guy with the rapidly moving eyebrows asking if you were looking for any uranium. That was the best
Well, the details are at least somewhat impeached by the fact that she got the date wrong (or you did, in your comment). There was no Trinitite to be had at Los Alamos until 1945.
Could easily be a reference to when Roosevelt formally authorizes the atomic bomb project in January 1942 or her related involvement etc.
Honestly commemorating the projects start date make the story more believable in my mind not less.
Honestly commemorating the projects start date make the story more believable in my mind not less.
I found a couple of cool rocks...
I dunno people's incredulousness as of late on the most mundane of things makes them look kinda like they're missing something
I dunno people's incredulousness as of late on the most mundane of things makes them look kinda like they're missing something
I think there has been some misunderstanding here, most people read "she apparently was involved in the manhattan project somehow" as "based on the fact that she had this, I think she must have been involved in the Manhattan project as there is no other way that she would have it" whereas what you meant was "I know from other sources that she was involved in the Manhattan project"
> Why are Americans always so quick to cast shade?
Not sure it’s an American thing, but it’s definitely a thing here in HN, a lot of times it’s not that bad, but it does feel crappy
Not sure it’s an American thing, but it’s definitely a thing here in HN, a lot of times it’s not that bad, but it does feel crappy
I left the continent to get away from that shit.
It's tiring as hell
It's tiring as hell
I don't understand what happened in this thread that is so bad, you told a story and gave (what seemed like, because of the "apparently") a guess as to what happened and someone else offered another possible explanation that you might not have known?
I guess I'm in the wrong place to try to explain to anyone involved why being a know-it-all is insufferable
I thought it was useful and interesting information? You don't have to feel attacked by it
I reserve the right to find it to be a very annoying behaviour that has cropped up in recent years, especially with people who spend way too much time on the internet, and I think I got enough upvotes to know that there's others who at least silently agree
I don’t understand why anyone would upvote your comments (past the first one), they don’t add anything to the discussion
If you find having a discussion annoying, then as you said you’re probably on the wrong website
If you find having a discussion annoying, then as you said you’re probably on the wrong website
They clearly agree that it's irritating nonsense to immediately disparage someone relating an anecdote, something you have now admitted that you have a problem grasping
[deleted]
You left the continent to escape americans but still use our social media? Doesn't that defeat the purpose?
Show me an equivalent to this in other languages and I'll go spend my time there instead
I think it's pertinent information to know. I found their comment interesting.
I didn't think above was shade, but I'm only Canadian :(
not only was he not casting shade, commenter actually added information to the conversation.
Oh, they are just trying be "factually helpful" (not that I think it's a particularly helpful contribution)
You're not sure it's safe, unless you've got an Alpha particle detector, which you didn't mention. Also, the internals of it might be an alpha emitter, and only get exposed on grinding.
I wouldn't do anything that might abrade it. I'd say the jewelers are right.
I wouldn't do anything that might abrade it. I'd say the jewelers are right.
I literally got one of those and mentioned this
The metal tube that most Geiger tubes are made out of stops alpha particles. Unless you've tested your detector with a known alpha source, it's useless for radiological survey use.
OK while we're obviously on different pages on knowledge domains here, when I say wrap I mean like 10000 year old wire-wrap style. No messing up the thing at all, pretty much just wrapping it in gold for earrings or something and maybe adding something else like some glass with a radiation symbol in it or something
Does that still pose a significant risk of any sort?
Does that still pose a significant risk of any sort?
I'm not doubting that GP is correct because I'm not an expert, but I don't understand the importance attached to alpha particle detection. Alpha particles generally can't make it through human skin, and are these materials are not dangerous to handle unless ingested/inhaled (although I wouldn't recommend wearing it either) It's the other higher-energy forms of radiation (beta, gamma, neutron) that pose the more dangerous radiation poisoning threats
That's really what I figured too
Grinding such materials produces airborne particulate that lingers for days.
they mentioned using a Geiger counter, does that count?
seems like it can: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3228631/
seems like it can: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3228631/
I'd be concerned if that process involves anything like grinding or cutting to shape. Particularly with alpha-emitter nuclides, things that otherwise are harmless and inert might become less so when there's inhalable dust involved.
I wonder where the 1942 comes from. At that time nobody knew that there would a test named Trinity and trinitite was also 3 years away.
Again she worked on it, at least tangenitally. I think I remember her husband did too
I'm probably remembering numbers wrong though
I'm probably remembering numbers wrong though
Maybe labeled years later with the date referring to the year she started working there.
As a data point, did you try to get any of them to wrap bananas?
That would be an interesting thing to do actually. Since the banana just goes bad and squishy what you'd be left with is a cool banana-shaped wireframe to hang from the ceiling in a tropical bungalow
I might actually do this
I might actually do this
Is it irresponsible to just not tell the jeweler what it is? You’ve already confirmed that it’s not radioactive.
Not sure exactly what the OP means by "wrap it", but if you are asking a jeweler to grind it then yes, it would be irresponsible not to mention, even if you thought it was clean. Ingesting/breathing has the potential to be dangerous.
Hunter Scott has a fun article where his friend helped him test his sample in a lab -- https://www.hscott.net/analyzing-trinitite-a-radioactive-pie...
Hunter Scott has a fun article where his friend helped him test his sample in a lab -- https://www.hscott.net/analyzing-trinitite-a-radioactive-pie...
By wrap it, I mean wrap it in gold
Wire wrap jewelry right now is a big thing
Nobody needs to grind a thing that would be such a waste, it's a very brittle silicate. That link is really interesting however it says you pretty much have to eat the stuff for it to have any ill effect. Sand for breakfast, anyone?
Wire wrap jewelry right now is a big thing
Nobody needs to grind a thing that would be such a waste, it's a very brittle silicate. That link is really interesting however it says you pretty much have to eat the stuff for it to have any ill effect. Sand for breakfast, anyone?
- "So, ignoring alpha and beta radiation,"
I think most of the radiation in that sample is alpha. The gamma peak they measured the 2nd-highest count for is the 59 keV from Am-241. The invisible monster they can't detect is the 5,486 keV alpha generated by that same isotope. That's the main hazard there—should someone remove the sample from the glass vial and somehow get significant exposure to dust. (Otherwise, the glass is more than sufficient shielding).
I think most of the radiation in that sample is alpha. The gamma peak they measured the 2nd-highest count for is the 59 keV from Am-241. The invisible monster they can't detect is the 5,486 keV alpha generated by that same isotope. That's the main hazard there—should someone remove the sample from the glass vial and somehow get significant exposure to dust. (Otherwise, the glass is more than sufficient shielding).
It’s pretty unethical to withhold information from people who wouldn’t do the work if they had this information .
They won't hear me out, tried a few times. People don't know a damn thing about this stuff they just assume you're insane for even touching it
Keep in mind these are the same people who are afraid of microwave ovens
Hell even we were a little freaked out of it enough to go hit a scientific supply shop before realizing it's well past its half-life
Keep in mind these are the same people who are afraid of microwave ovens
Hell even we were a little freaked out of it enough to go hit a scientific supply shop before realizing it's well past its half-life
> it's well past its half-life
I'm not sure that's how half-lives work...
I'm not sure that's how half-lives work...
Did you try saying “hear me out” in a TikTok millennial monotone tone?
No I went gen Z and said "no cap this radioactive rock be bussin but lowkey safe"
I'm not a collector, but I'm tempted to bid on this book. It's remarkable to imagine the effort the original owner had to put in, over a couple of decades, to collect all those signatures, and it really is a who's who of the Manhattan project, and of course, of the bombing itself.
TIL that Vannevar Bush, known around these circles for his "As We May Think" essay, was also a "key figure in establishing the Manhattan Project".
He was also a big figure in MIT's WWII history. If you're interested in such things, check out "Tuxedo Park". The main focus of the book is Alfred Loomis, but quite a lot of the other characters of the era make appearances.
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Tuxedo-Park/Jennet-Co...
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Tuxedo-Park/Jennet-Co...
That’s quite something. Anyone have any idea how all these people came to sign this one book?
At the bottom, it says the book belonged to an amateur historian who went around collecting all the autographs. Cant imagine how easy/hard it would've been to get all if them.
What an embarrassment of riches, when you claim that 14 Nobel laureates have signed the book, when it was actually 15 (they missed listing Hans Bethe as a Nobel prize winner).
Enola Gay Crew seems a bit misplaced here.
- "Enola Gay Crew"
Gross. Wiping out one hundred thousand human lives with a press of a button isn't something to make trophy memorabilia out of.
Gross. Wiping out one hundred thousand human lives with a press of a button isn't something to make trophy memorabilia out of.
Do you also blame the ones who refined the metal that went into making the plane and bombs and the electronics within? What about the rivets and bolts and hinges that were part of the bomb release mechanism? The crew of Enola Gay were as much a cog in the machine as anyone else. If they refused the order to deploy the weapons, other people will. Everyone contributes to history, including your grandparents or great grandparents who quite definitely participated in the economy. Even the idea of deploying nuclear weapons were justified with the idea that it will save more American and Japanese lives should a ground operation be conducted. Blaming anything or anyone for events of history is short sighted.
“ Blaming anything or anyone for events of history is short sighted.”
Surely you don’t mean that no one is responsible for anything that has happened?
Surely you don’t mean that no one is responsible for anything that has happened?
i think he means that someone else would have done it
This is a WW2 topic so I feel okay with invoking Godwin's Law:
This is the same excuse many Germans that took part in the concentration camps used. Turns out, still doesn't make genocide okay.
This is the same excuse many Germans that took part in the concentration camps used. Turns out, still doesn't make genocide okay.
Killing the Empire of Japan's war machine through bombing the culture (which is actually what was occurring) into submission was in fact more than okay: it was necessary and moral.
They started massive wars of conquest across Asia (the likes of which are impossible to relate to for today's generations), butchered countless millions of people in the process, allied with Nazi Germany (!), committed even worse atrocities than the Nazis, and still refused to surrender even after being nuked once (with a large political & military contingent holding out even after the second nuke).
It required total war to stop them, and that obviously includes decimating their infrastructure, manufacturing, and the citizens that were responsible for manufacturing weapons (which had commonly been shifted out of large factories and dispersed into neighborhoods at smaller scale).
They started massive wars of conquest across Asia (the likes of which are impossible to relate to for today's generations), butchered countless millions of people in the process, allied with Nazi Germany (!), committed even worse atrocities than the Nazis, and still refused to surrender even after being nuked once (with a large political & military contingent holding out even after the second nuke).
It required total war to stop them, and that obviously includes decimating their infrastructure, manufacturing, and the citizens that were responsible for manufacturing weapons (which had commonly been shifted out of large factories and dispersed into neighborhoods at smaller scale).
i suppose you're right, thou i can imagine a world in which the allies lost the war, concentration camps were "necessary" and the bombs were "not ok"
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>Do you also blame the ones who refined the metal that went into making the plane and bombs and the electronics within?
Yes. We live in a perverted world. There are harmful activities such as murder which most of us condone. It is a tragedy that there are enough of us that would disavow the manufacture of munitions.
Yes. We live in a perverted world. There are harmful activities such as murder which most of us condone. It is a tragedy that there are enough of us that would disavow the manufacture of munitions.
Tell that to people living in Ukraine. Most wars are started by an aggressor not mutual agreement. Having no weapons to defend yourself doesn’t help, look at Polish casualties from WWII vs how much they suffered from losing.
Most of us condone murder? That doesn’t sound right. Are you missing a “do not”?
No. I think leoh is equating war with murder.
I think leoh's point is wrong. But if you're going to disagree, at least start with recognizing what the actual point is.
I think leoh's point is wrong. But if you're going to disagree, at least start with recognizing what the actual point is.
Every single person is responsible for their own voluntary actions. There is no sophistry and no amount of lies stacked on each other that can take away that responsibility.
The issue isn't whether everyone is responsible for their own actions, it's with who feels qualified to pass judgment on other people.
Everybody is qualified to do that, with very few exceptions.
Ahh, I believe the opposite is true. I rarely feel qualified to condemn other people, though there are occasional exceptions, scoped to very specific circumstances. If you mean "capable" of passing judgment I'd agree with you, because everybody does that, if only unconsciously. But qualified? That's hard to believe.
Yes, qualified. You don't need to be free from sin to say that it is wrong to nuke a city. You don't need to nuke a city yourself to know how the experience feels like, before passing judgement on those who do nuke cities.
Or did they save 1,000,000 lives with the press of a button?
The situation is far too complicated and nuanced to be a black and white call of "gross".
The situation is far too complicated and nuanced to be a black and white call of "gross".
imagine Russia using the same justification for dropping one on a Ukrainian city and suddenly all complexity and nuance is gone
it's morally indefensible in all cases
it's morally indefensible in all cases
Nope. You've proven that it's morally indefensible in at least one case. You've got a lot more proving to do before "all cases" is a valid conclusion.
it's 2/2 real world cases so 'all cases' seems like a legit conclusion to me, but if you can come with an ethical hypothetical a-bomb dropping scenario i'm all ears
No it's not. It's 1/1 in your hypothetical case. The two real world cases are considerably less clear cut.
I don’t think that is true. Russia has shown themselves to be a bad actor, like early 1900s Germany and Japan.
shown themselves to you maybe, but have in mind that post 1945 plenty of couped/invaded countries around the world could come up with a convincing case painting US as a bad actor too
this is where you should search for nuance and complexity, whereas dropping a-bombs on civilians is a clear cut case of an immoral act no matter how many lives it supposedly saves
this is where you should search for nuance and complexity, whereas dropping a-bombs on civilians is a clear cut case of an immoral act no matter how many lives it supposedly saves
My grandfather was at Pearl Harbor. He was a submariner through the war, purple heart recipient, a hero.
His war memorabilia which I have from him are among the most valuable possessions I own.
It's not because of all the horrific things they could represent. It's because of the beautiful things they represent. The triumph over evil.
It was awful, a truly awful thing to do (Hirshima and Nagasaki).
But let's not forget the greater context. The US actively tried to stay out of the war, deliberately, for as long as possible and had their hand forced.
I say it every December 7th, but now I'm saying it on Sept. 18th.
Remember Pearl Harbor.
Remember my Grandfather.
This book is similar. It's not for all the negative things that we remember it. It's for the positive things we've done since, despite it.
His war memorabilia which I have from him are among the most valuable possessions I own.
It's not because of all the horrific things they could represent. It's because of the beautiful things they represent. The triumph over evil.
It was awful, a truly awful thing to do (Hirshima and Nagasaki).
But let's not forget the greater context. The US actively tried to stay out of the war, deliberately, for as long as possible and had their hand forced.
I say it every December 7th, but now I'm saying it on Sept. 18th.
Remember Pearl Harbor.
Remember my Grandfather.
This book is similar. It's not for all the negative things that we remember it. It's for the positive things we've done since, despite it.
I wouldn't really call this a trophy. They are historically significant people no matter how you feel about them, and this is a pretty tasteful way to represent that significance - just a simple signature in a topical book from their time.
I also think it's a bit strange to single out the crew. They are not any more responsible (and arguably less responsible) than the physicists and bureaucrats represented here who designed and built the bomb explicitly for the purpose of dropping it on Japan.
I also think it's a bit strange to single out the crew. They are not any more responsible (and arguably less responsible) than the physicists and bureaucrats represented here who designed and built the bomb explicitly for the purpose of dropping it on Japan.
You'll never guess what Rosie the Riveter was putting rivets into...
I had a similar reaction, although I cannot blame the crew for following orders. It does seem to change the nuance of the meaning of the signatures, though.
You can blame people for "just following orders", if they were unlawful. That was the point of the Nuremburg trials[1]. Here's the some of the evidence used in those trials.[2]
Had the bombs not been used, it was estimated that there would have been a million soldiers wounded, and who knows how many civilians. Based on the information available to them, the crew of the Enola Gay had no reason to believe their orders unlawful.
"During World War II, 1,506,000 Purple Heart medals were manufactured, many in anticipation of the estimated casualties resulting from the planned Allied invasion of Japan. By the end of the war, even accounting for medals lost, stolen, or wasted, nearly 500,000 remained." [3]
[1] https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/topics/nuremberg-trial...
[2] https://www.c-span.org/video/?400657-1/nazi-concentration-pr...
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Heart
Had the bombs not been used, it was estimated that there would have been a million soldiers wounded, and who knows how many civilians. Based on the information available to them, the crew of the Enola Gay had no reason to believe their orders unlawful.
"During World War II, 1,506,000 Purple Heart medals were manufactured, many in anticipation of the estimated casualties resulting from the planned Allied invasion of Japan. By the end of the war, even accounting for medals lost, stolen, or wasted, nearly 500,000 remained." [3]
[1] https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/topics/nuremberg-trial...
[2] https://www.c-span.org/video/?400657-1/nazi-concentration-pr...
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Heart
This debate comes up again and again, but basically, that's a false dichotomy. The bombs could and should have been used in many other ways, not only as a surprise attack on a civilian population center, which left so few surviving witnesses that the Japanese leadership had little idea what even happened. If the goal is to force a surrender as quickly as possible, you send plenty of advance notice, invite official witnesses, say "observe, we're about to demonstrate how a single airplane can blow up an unpopulated island of your choice; consider the terms of your surrender in the meantime. If we don't hear back from you, the next one strikes a city of our choice." Or something to that extent.
Of course, those kinds of decisions are way above the pay-grade of a bomber crew. So again, I certainly don't fault them. But it also feels kind of weird to treat them like celebrities.
Of course, those kinds of decisions are way above the pay-grade of a bomber crew. So again, I certainly don't fault them. But it also feels kind of weird to treat them like celebrities.
Maybe. I think it's more complicated than that. And there were leaflets dropped to warn about the fire bombings. There might've been leaflets for the atomic bombings too.
https://time.com/4142857/wwii-leaflets-japan/ https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/ahf/key-documents/warning-leaf...
The fire bombing of Tokyo, which was the deadliest of the entire war (including Europe) and happened in March, didn't convince the Japanese government to give up. The Atomic bombs dropped in August and there was plenty of bombing in between.
I think most historians agree it was really the Soviet Union entering the war which finally created a good enough consensus for Japan to surrender. Even then there were plenty that wanted to keep going.
Even in hindsight it's very hard to say what the right answer was, which is why it's still debated even today. Probably there was no right answer.
https://time.com/4142857/wwii-leaflets-japan/ https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/ahf/key-documents/warning-leaf...
The fire bombing of Tokyo, which was the deadliest of the entire war (including Europe) and happened in March, didn't convince the Japanese government to give up. The Atomic bombs dropped in August and there was plenty of bombing in between.
I think most historians agree it was really the Soviet Union entering the war which finally created a good enough consensus for Japan to surrender. Even then there were plenty that wanted to keep going.
Even in hindsight it's very hard to say what the right answer was, which is why it's still debated even today. Probably there was no right answer.
If it was the USSR cancelling their peace treaty with Japan that forced their surrender, which I agree is plausible, then that only seems to further make the atomic bombings less worthy of honour.
Perhaps, but the USSR declared war on Aug 7. Hiroshima was Aug 6. Japan surrendered Sept 2.
Also consider. The USSR declared on Aug 7 because they wanted to get their bite out of Japan before it was too late. So in some sense the bomb hastened their entry, which hastened the end of the war...
All I can say is, I'm glad I'm not the one who had to make these decisions in real time.
Also consider. The USSR declared on Aug 7 because they wanted to get their bite out of Japan before it was too late. So in some sense the bomb hastened their entry, which hastened the end of the war...
All I can say is, I'm glad I'm not the one who had to make these decisions in real time.
The problem with that is you would be telling Japan where your bomber would be and at what time. So they would just thank you for the heads up and shoot it down.
I don't think they would shoot down a demonstration for their own military observers on an unpopulated island. That would be only to their own detriment.
Let's image Japan said to the US "Hey - pick an unpopulated area of your country, and keep an eye on it at noon on Thursday - we're going to nuke it to help you decide to surrender." The entire concept is absurd.
Why is it absurd? Do you still think they'd shoot down a demonstration of top-secret enemy technology staged for their own intelligence benefit?
People who have to be nuked twice to get them to surrender are not likely to surrender after an uninhabited island is nuked once.
Keep in mind that we had already conducted firebombing raids on Tokyo and Dresden that did a comparable amount of damage, inflicted comparable loss of life, and carried comparable moral and ethical implications. At the time, the only thing special or unusual about the atomic bomb was that it required only one airplane to deliver. It wasn't yet an item of totemic significance.
Keep in mind that we had already conducted firebombing raids on Tokyo and Dresden that did a comparable amount of damage, inflicted comparable loss of life, and carried comparable moral and ethical implications. At the time, the only thing special or unusual about the atomic bomb was that it required only one airplane to deliver. It wasn't yet an item of totemic significance.
Yes, I wouldn't buy memorabilia signed by a firebombing flight crew either.
(Shrug) War is hell. The only winning move is not to start one. The second-best move, if you still insist on starting one, is to do it by bombing somebody else's harbor.
War is not hell. There's no innocents in hell.
[deleted]
They're auctioning the signatures of the pilots as war memorabilia. I think that part's beyond any defense. Even if you kill someone for a legitimate reason (I'm side-stepping that), it's not moral to glorify the killing, and monetize the killing, in this way. It's just ghoulish!
Reminds me of meeting a girl whose last name is associated with executioners (axe-wielding ones) in her home country (like Smiths were blacksmiths)... she was not enthusiastic about it.
I also feel the same, owning a book with Oppenheimer's and Einstein's signatures in it would be cool, but the Enola Gay bombers? No thanks.
I suppose it's the distance, the same girl above, if she was associated with the ruler that ordered the execution instead of the actual executioner, would probably not be that ashamed of the last name.
I also feel the same, owning a book with Oppenheimer's and Einstein's signatures in it would be cool, but the Enola Gay bombers? No thanks.
I suppose it's the distance, the same girl above, if she was associated with the ruler that ordered the execution instead of the actual executioner, would probably not be that ashamed of the last name.
The Holocaust museum has pieces with Hitler's signature that someone had to buy and donate. They are still important historical pieces.
The money is for the historical significance, not glorification of the act.
The money is for the historical significance, not glorification of the act.
- "The Holocaust museum has pieces with Hitler's signature that someone had to buy and donate. They are still important historical pieces."
Then, would you approve of someone auctioning Hitler signatures to private collectors, like we're seeing here? That would be a serious crime in many countries. The context matters here, and I'm not impressed that the context of this auction is a respectful and sober one—that they can hide behind "for historical purposes".
E.g.
- "among these are 14 scientists awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics or Chemistry for their monumental achievements, as well as pioneering nuclear researchers, military personnel, and Manhattan Project organizers."
- "This remarkable compendium of autographs of the scientists and military men that played a role in the development of the bomb is an absolutely one-of-a-kind piece—an irreplaceable relic of the most momentous development of the 20th century."
This plainly glorifies the nuclear bombings. I don't agree with your comparing this auction to Holocaust museum exhibits. They don't look similar.
Then, would you approve of someone auctioning Hitler signatures to private collectors, like we're seeing here? That would be a serious crime in many countries. The context matters here, and I'm not impressed that the context of this auction is a respectful and sober one—that they can hide behind "for historical purposes".
E.g.
- "among these are 14 scientists awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics or Chemistry for their monumental achievements, as well as pioneering nuclear researchers, military personnel, and Manhattan Project organizers."
- "This remarkable compendium of autographs of the scientists and military men that played a role in the development of the bomb is an absolutely one-of-a-kind piece—an irreplaceable relic of the most momentous development of the 20th century."
This plainly glorifies the nuclear bombings. I don't agree with your comparing this auction to Holocaust museum exhibits. They don't look similar.
It might be if your father, brother, uncle, etc died in the attack on Pearl Harbor.
Not saying I agree, but you'd probably have a different attitude if the war personally affected you.
Not saying I agree, but you'd probably have a different attitude if the war personally affected you.
I don't agree either. Now that technology allows individual actions to spread further, people need to learn to shut up and multiply.
The attack on Pearl Harbor killed 2335 American military personnel and 68 civilians. The Little Boy bomb dropped by the Enola Gay crew on Hiroshima killed 90-140,000 Japanese, mostly civilians. The whole Asia Pacific war consumed nearly 25 million people. Or consider the ratio resulting from the terrorist attacks 22 years and 7 days ago. Those planes killed 2,977 American victims (plus 19 hijackers), then the US went to war in Afghanistan and Iraq and caused 4.5-4.7 million deaths [1].
"You attack me, I attack you" works as foreign policy (or is at least justifiable) when your most devastating weapon is your own fists and teeth, or even as sophisticated as a stick with a rock tied to the end. To swing that stick again and again and again, for days, ending one thousand, two thousand, ten thousand times as many lives as were lost in the initial strike... That will not bring back a father, a brother, or an uncle. You might understand how a broken man might want to do that, but that can't be called justice. When your weapon is as small as Little Boy, or today as big as a network of ICBMs, and instead of standing face to face with your enemy and watching that human suffer you're pulling a bomb release from 30,000 feet or clicking a button from the other side of the world, that gut feeling of a desire for revenge, an attitude of "I want to cause pain" is not reliable.
[1]: https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/papers/2023/IndirectDeat...
The attack on Pearl Harbor killed 2335 American military personnel and 68 civilians. The Little Boy bomb dropped by the Enola Gay crew on Hiroshima killed 90-140,000 Japanese, mostly civilians. The whole Asia Pacific war consumed nearly 25 million people. Or consider the ratio resulting from the terrorist attacks 22 years and 7 days ago. Those planes killed 2,977 American victims (plus 19 hijackers), then the US went to war in Afghanistan and Iraq and caused 4.5-4.7 million deaths [1].
"You attack me, I attack you" works as foreign policy (or is at least justifiable) when your most devastating weapon is your own fists and teeth, or even as sophisticated as a stick with a rock tied to the end. To swing that stick again and again and again, for days, ending one thousand, two thousand, ten thousand times as many lives as were lost in the initial strike... That will not bring back a father, a brother, or an uncle. You might understand how a broken man might want to do that, but that can't be called justice. When your weapon is as small as Little Boy, or today as big as a network of ICBMs, and instead of standing face to face with your enemy and watching that human suffer you're pulling a bomb release from 30,000 feet or clicking a button from the other side of the world, that gut feeling of a desire for revenge, an attitude of "I want to cause pain" is not reliable.
[1]: https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/papers/2023/IndirectDeat...
It might not be a happy thing to own but it's certainly historic.
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Surely this is worth more than 22k?
The bidding will continue for several more days. The site lists an 'estimate' price at > $100,000
It's currently in pre-bidding and the real auction hasn’t even started yet. These numbers are purely aspirational (for the bidders) because more than a dozen bids at this point indicates that it will be a very competitive live auction and none of these prebids will mean anything. The closing price will be 10-100x of prebids once the professional brokers and dealers get involved on behalf of their clients.
go bid :D
The title fits into a broad pattern of misdirected attention about atomic weapons. The cover story is always "energy" but the underlying truth is all about weapons. It's the same for every country, too, it seems.
It's because the two are very intertwined. The same technology that allows bombs also allows for creating a lot of energy for powering homes and businesses.
The technology for storing and securing spent nuclear materials from the making of the bombs is the same technology for storing the waste from making energy for homes.
The technology for storing and securing spent nuclear materials from the making of the bombs is the same technology for storing the waste from making energy for homes.
I cannot for the life of me find a professional jeweler with the balls to wrap it. They all get mad at me like I'm trying to poison them when there's really more radioactive particles being emitted from bananas.