The Apple fanboy problem(zdnet.com)
zdnet.com
The Apple fanboy problem
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/violetblue/the-apple-fanboy-problem/1038
21 comments
Couldn't agree more.
First, I do not follow Violet's leap that this is tangibly, even subtly, about gender. Just because the object of an ugly and vicious attack happens to be female does not make sexism the conscious or subconscious motivation behind the attack. It's highly likely that the same lynch mob would have gone after a man who aroused their fanboy ire, and with the same level of zeal and fanaticism. Playing the gender card here does no favors to Violet's otherwise interesting and provocative analysis.
Second, I don't understand what Apple is meant to do about this. If one is to accuse Apple, even indirectly, of inspiring this behavior among its fanbase, then one bears at least some burden for suggesting how Apple might address the issue. As it stands, I don't understand a) how this behavior is unique to Apple's fanboys versus, say, everyone else's fanboys, and b) what Apple should -- or even can -- do about it.
Finally, I agree with you that this is more a sad phenomenon of internet fanboyism in general, and less a phenomenon of Apple fanboyism in specific. That Apple fanboyism happens to stand out from the pack is probably a matter of sample size. There are more Apple fanboys out there, among the general population, than there are other types of fanboys. But anyone who's ever browsed an online message board, Reddit topic, etc., about any fanboy-generating topic (video games, movies, comic books, you name it) will see the same sort of craziness that was seen here. That doesn't excuse the craziness by any means; it's obnoxious, ugly, and counterproductive everywhere that it exists. But it does put the craziness of Apple fanboyism into its proper context and perspective.
First, I do not follow Violet's leap that this is tangibly, even subtly, about gender. Just because the object of an ugly and vicious attack happens to be female does not make sexism the conscious or subconscious motivation behind the attack. It's highly likely that the same lynch mob would have gone after a man who aroused their fanboy ire, and with the same level of zeal and fanaticism. Playing the gender card here does no favors to Violet's otherwise interesting and provocative analysis.
Second, I don't understand what Apple is meant to do about this. If one is to accuse Apple, even indirectly, of inspiring this behavior among its fanbase, then one bears at least some burden for suggesting how Apple might address the issue. As it stands, I don't understand a) how this behavior is unique to Apple's fanboys versus, say, everyone else's fanboys, and b) what Apple should -- or even can -- do about it.
Finally, I agree with you that this is more a sad phenomenon of internet fanboyism in general, and less a phenomenon of Apple fanboyism in specific. That Apple fanboyism happens to stand out from the pack is probably a matter of sample size. There are more Apple fanboys out there, among the general population, than there are other types of fanboys. But anyone who's ever browsed an online message board, Reddit topic, etc., about any fanboy-generating topic (video games, movies, comic books, you name it) will see the same sort of craziness that was seen here. That doesn't excuse the craziness by any means; it's obnoxious, ugly, and counterproductive everywhere that it exists. But it does put the craziness of Apple fanboyism into its proper context and perspective.
This is a gender thing. It is, however, only a gender thing and has nothing to do specifically with Apple.
Women are treated markedly different than men. It’s quite disgusting, really.
Women are treated markedly different than men. It’s quite disgusting, really.
Yes. The casual misogyny women on the Internet is arguably one of the most underreported, widespread, systemic problems on the Internet. The grandparent here suggests that the Internet mob doesn't march solely on women. Uh, who said they do?
There is a drastic difference in the tenor of attacks on men and women when this happens, however. There's something substantially more ugly in the character of the mob's reaction, but fortunately we have a word for it: misogyny.
Actually, it's a fairly regular occurrence on the Internet even when it's not provoked by these controversies. I don't have one good source for information about this stuff, but here's something that looks fairly comprehensive, in that it collects the experiences from a variety of female bloggers: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/helen-lewis-hasteley/2011/....
There is a drastic difference in the tenor of attacks on men and women when this happens, however. There's something substantially more ugly in the character of the mob's reaction, but fortunately we have a word for it: misogyny.
Actually, it's a fairly regular occurrence on the Internet even when it's not provoked by these controversies. I don't have one good source for information about this stuff, but here's something that looks fairly comprehensive, in that it collects the experiences from a variety of female bloggers: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/helen-lewis-hasteley/2011/....
I have a policy never to open a zdnet.com link. I just feel like I'm polluting my browser by doing so.
But I read this one and I must say it was total bullshit (no offense to the submitter of course). She said an offending thing about that woman, was incorrectly corrected by some Apple-loving bloggers and then she attacks them for being intentionally misinforming. It's like 4 year olds fighting.
This is Shawn King's response to this nonsense of an article: http://4ma.me/509/violet-violet-violet.html
The author's name ('Violet Blue') is a rather strange name and I immediately remembered where I'd heard it before. Read this funny piece by The Macolope about another great article by Violet Blue (the 'Oh, great' section): http://www.macworld.com/article/164003/2011/12/macalope_deba...
But I read this one and I must say it was total bullshit (no offense to the submitter of course). She said an offending thing about that woman, was incorrectly corrected by some Apple-loving bloggers and then she attacks them for being intentionally misinforming. It's like 4 year olds fighting.
This is Shawn King's response to this nonsense of an article: http://4ma.me/509/violet-violet-violet.html
The author's name ('Violet Blue') is a rather strange name and I immediately remembered where I'd heard it before. Read this funny piece by The Macolope about another great article by Violet Blue (the 'Oh, great' section): http://www.macworld.com/article/164003/2011/12/macalope_deba...
"She said an offending thing about that woman"
Did you read the whole article? The woman is the photo sad she wasn't offended and even made herself a Facebook fan page called "Saddest Boothbabe". You sort of seem to be jumping to the conclusions that the author says is the problem.
Did you read the whole article? The woman is the photo sad she wasn't offended and even made herself a Facebook fan page called "Saddest Boothbabe". You sort of seem to be jumping to the conclusions that the author says is the problem.
Some fat people don't mind being called 'chubby'. It doesn't make calling them that acceptable. If I'm walking off the street and some random guy calling another random guy 'chubby' and they both laugh, I still get a bad feeling about it.
It's like swearing. It might be extremely funny sometimes (specially when Samuel L. Jackson says them!), but still, swearing is bad karma; makes the environment less friendly (my English is not well, and I can't express what I want to say very well).
It's like swearing. It might be extremely funny sometimes (specially when Samuel L. Jackson says them!), but still, swearing is bad karma; makes the environment less friendly (my English is not well, and I can't express what I want to say very well).
It is offending and sexist, though.
Flawed article but it is a real problem.
The more you love something, the angrier you get when others refuse to love it the same as you. (see political parties, religion, etc...)
Being a PC guy myself, I would love to buy my parents Apple products. For years I hated Apple despite never having tried a single Apple product. I just HATED Apple, i didn't know why. Until one day I just ordered a mac off ebay and got it in my home. After trying it out I realized something shocking. I don't hate Apple at all, It's the fans that I can't stand.
Up until then I was avoiding Apple because I was afraid I'd fall in love with Apple products and turn into a cult member like others I had seen. The Fanboy's arguments were always subtly insulting, condescending, seperationist, and reeked of elitism. If I used a PC I wasn't "up" to their level in creativity or intelligence. (I grew up around a lot of Apple Fanboys, and Nintendo fanboys too)
Long story short I kept the mac for months and used it every day but it just wasn't my thing, for my specific usage it wasn't anything better or more stable than what I had with my PC, I resold it. But one day I think I'll buy my parents a mac. That way I can sleep at night knowing they won't accidentally download an email attachment and brick the thing. And its easier for them to manage. I'm well knowledged in my PC so those benefits don't do anything for me.
The more you love something, the angrier you get when others refuse to love it the same as you. (see political parties, religion, etc...)
Being a PC guy myself, I would love to buy my parents Apple products. For years I hated Apple despite never having tried a single Apple product. I just HATED Apple, i didn't know why. Until one day I just ordered a mac off ebay and got it in my home. After trying it out I realized something shocking. I don't hate Apple at all, It's the fans that I can't stand.
Up until then I was avoiding Apple because I was afraid I'd fall in love with Apple products and turn into a cult member like others I had seen. The Fanboy's arguments were always subtly insulting, condescending, seperationist, and reeked of elitism. If I used a PC I wasn't "up" to their level in creativity or intelligence. (I grew up around a lot of Apple Fanboys, and Nintendo fanboys too)
Long story short I kept the mac for months and used it every day but it just wasn't my thing, for my specific usage it wasn't anything better or more stable than what I had with my PC, I resold it. But one day I think I'll buy my parents a mac. That way I can sleep at night knowing they won't accidentally download an email attachment and brick the thing. And its easier for them to manage. I'm well knowledged in my PC so those benefits don't do anything for me.
In my view, Apple's image (to the extent that it is positive) has always depended more on product quality than the support of internet denizens. Unfortunately, I would also assert that overall product quality has been neglected as of late.
This month I had to return a high end Mac Pro (purchased due to a 'use it or loose it' budget dilemma) because the firmware does not fully support the current OS. There was a window of time when this sort of thing didn't happen to Apple, but my experience indicates that the party is officially over.
This is not to say that Apple won't make piles of cash making fashion pieces for well-heeled consumers, but I do expect influential Apple advocates will move on once (or if) a credible alternative surfaces. Whether the fans linger on or not is ultimately irrelevant.
This month I had to return a high end Mac Pro (purchased due to a 'use it or loose it' budget dilemma) because the firmware does not fully support the current OS. There was a window of time when this sort of thing didn't happen to Apple, but my experience indicates that the party is officially over.
This is not to say that Apple won't make piles of cash making fashion pieces for well-heeled consumers, but I do expect influential Apple advocates will move on once (or if) a credible alternative surfaces. Whether the fans linger on or not is ultimately irrelevant.
Unfortunately, I would also assert that overall product quality has been neglected as of late.
Because you had a Mac Pro with a faulty firmware for the latest OS?
Whole stacks of iBook G3s had to be returned (some of them again and again) because of faulty logic boards. The Cube had overheating problems. The batteries of a few Powerbook lines where problematic and had to be recalled. G5 Mac Pro's had leaking liquid cooling and fan problems. Powerbooks had problems with their DVD writers. Early MacBook Pros also had problems with their fans. You can find tons of similar events from 1999 to 2012. Lots of older Apple machines had problems that needed a firmware update to fix, from graphic glitches to what have you.
They don't imply that "overall product quality has been neglected as of late". Just that, in every company and in every product line, there are to be some problems in some models, some machines or even whole runs. Nothing is perfect, and nothing was perfect before. I cannot even enumerate how many times I had problems with faulty Wintel PCs.
What happened is you just had some Mac computer that didn't have a problem before whereas your new one has a non-yet-updated by Apple firmware. A very little empirical evidence for any claim regarding overall QA. Gee, Apple in 2011 made what's perhaps the world's best laptop, the MBA 13" (touted as so by many Mac and PC review sites and magazines).
Because you had a Mac Pro with a faulty firmware for the latest OS?
Whole stacks of iBook G3s had to be returned (some of them again and again) because of faulty logic boards. The Cube had overheating problems. The batteries of a few Powerbook lines where problematic and had to be recalled. G5 Mac Pro's had leaking liquid cooling and fan problems. Powerbooks had problems with their DVD writers. Early MacBook Pros also had problems with their fans. You can find tons of similar events from 1999 to 2012. Lots of older Apple machines had problems that needed a firmware update to fix, from graphic glitches to what have you.
They don't imply that "overall product quality has been neglected as of late". Just that, in every company and in every product line, there are to be some problems in some models, some machines or even whole runs. Nothing is perfect, and nothing was perfect before. I cannot even enumerate how many times I had problems with faulty Wintel PCs.
What happened is you just had some Mac computer that didn't have a problem before whereas your new one has a non-yet-updated by Apple firmware. A very little empirical evidence for any claim regarding overall QA. Gee, Apple in 2011 made what's perhaps the world's best laptop, the MBA 13" (touted as so by many Mac and PC review sites and magazines).
Where do you find those people? I don’t know any of those.
They're all over the place online, and there are quite a few of them walking around offline.
It's interesting because online, they only act that way on sites with a huge number of other fanboys that have their support and can back them up. I clicked a link to a site talking about how Microsoft was going to discontinue the Zune and the comments were like a warzone. Anyone that liked their Zune more than their iPod got a lovely little "enjoy your viruses on your piece of shit unstable computer" reply as well as "have fun crashing". No joke. It got bad. When we mentioned to them they were acting like cult members, it flew right over their head.
Some Hipsters are like this. Although I would have expected them to be using an obscure unknown flavor of linux that you "wouldn't know about".
Designers too. Just last week there was a link to a designer listing all the things you need to know about designs or something. "Mac is better" was on the list. And underneath it, nothing to back her up on her argument other than a "they just are" type description.
My old science teacher was one of them. She was the only one in highschool with ALL macs in her lab room. She was very "vocal" about their superiority. You can also meet them in computer stores like Best Buy. Sometimes, hilariously, they lurk in the shadows waiting for an unsuspecting computer buyer to ask an employee "should I get a mac or pc?" They jump out to correct the employee if needed and steer the conversation towards Mac superiority. Sometimes, they ARE the employees. Hang around the Apple isle at Best Buy, you might be able to spot a few. (lol, I'm talking about this like we're on a safari)
It's interesting the type minority group that Apple attracts. The "I'm insecure so I have to have more than you" type. It's only a tiny percent of Apple's fans but they are the loudest. Most apple fans are nice, normal people. I've noticed that when PC guys convert to apple they are never like this. They simply state the reasons why they did it or "it just works for me". Whereas Apple fanatics that were always Apple fanatics go crazy with the "Windows crashes so much" and "there's viruses on it all the time". It's like listening to a Christian Extremist talking about Athiesm. It's the devil to them.
It's interesting because online, they only act that way on sites with a huge number of other fanboys that have their support and can back them up. I clicked a link to a site talking about how Microsoft was going to discontinue the Zune and the comments were like a warzone. Anyone that liked their Zune more than their iPod got a lovely little "enjoy your viruses on your piece of shit unstable computer" reply as well as "have fun crashing". No joke. It got bad. When we mentioned to them they were acting like cult members, it flew right over their head.
Some Hipsters are like this. Although I would have expected them to be using an obscure unknown flavor of linux that you "wouldn't know about".
Designers too. Just last week there was a link to a designer listing all the things you need to know about designs or something. "Mac is better" was on the list. And underneath it, nothing to back her up on her argument other than a "they just are" type description.
My old science teacher was one of them. She was the only one in highschool with ALL macs in her lab room. She was very "vocal" about their superiority. You can also meet them in computer stores like Best Buy. Sometimes, hilariously, they lurk in the shadows waiting for an unsuspecting computer buyer to ask an employee "should I get a mac or pc?" They jump out to correct the employee if needed and steer the conversation towards Mac superiority. Sometimes, they ARE the employees. Hang around the Apple isle at Best Buy, you might be able to spot a few. (lol, I'm talking about this like we're on a safari)
It's interesting the type minority group that Apple attracts. The "I'm insecure so I have to have more than you" type. It's only a tiny percent of Apple's fans but they are the loudest. Most apple fans are nice, normal people. I've noticed that when PC guys convert to apple they are never like this. They simply state the reasons why they did it or "it just works for me". Whereas Apple fanatics that were always Apple fanatics go crazy with the "Windows crashes so much" and "there's viruses on it all the time". It's like listening to a Christian Extremist talking about Athiesm. It's the devil to them.
Gruber does use his platform to call out the mob. See:
http://daringfireball.net/linked/2011/06/23/kind-of-screwed
http://daringfireball.net/linked/2011/06/23/maisel-mansion
The real story turned out to be more nuanced. Maisel apparently bought his "mansion" back when SoHO was a dump, and has not exactly outfitted it Donald Trump style.
Calling someone a "dick" twice, and then linking to his house, on a forum like DF which gets so much traffic, some of it necessarily fools, is rude and irresponsible. It ended up this way:
http://www.photolicensingoptions.com/ViewArticle.aspx?code=J...
Some of this is plain old playground dynamics. You push around my friend, I call you a dick. Not fun to watch.
Note: I'm not saying Gruber is 100% wrong or Maisel is 100% right. Just that subtlety is often missing from Gruber's approach.
http://daringfireball.net/linked/2011/06/23/kind-of-screwed
http://daringfireball.net/linked/2011/06/23/maisel-mansion
The real story turned out to be more nuanced. Maisel apparently bought his "mansion" back when SoHO was a dump, and has not exactly outfitted it Donald Trump style.
Calling someone a "dick" twice, and then linking to his house, on a forum like DF which gets so much traffic, some of it necessarily fools, is rude and irresponsible. It ended up this way:
http://www.photolicensingoptions.com/ViewArticle.aspx?code=J...
Some of this is plain old playground dynamics. You push around my friend, I call you a dick. Not fun to watch.
Note: I'm not saying Gruber is 100% wrong or Maisel is 100% right. Just that subtlety is often missing from Gruber's approach.
Huh. I thought when Gruber pointed out the mistake he was criticizing the sexism (of incorrectly calling a woman on a Mac expo a “booth babe”).
That people apparently responded to this sexism with more sexism of their own is quite disgusting and should rightfully be pointed out. I don’t see it as specific to Apple, though.
That people apparently responded to this sexism with more sexism of their own is quite disgusting and should rightfully be pointed out. I don’t see it as specific to Apple, though.
Wow that is really just a shockingly poor article. Who are the people upvoting this?
If there's one thing worse than fanboyism, it's kneejerk contrarianism, where you reflexively agree with anyone and anything you perceive as outside some 'mainstream' that may only exist in your head, regardless of how accurate that person or thing actually is.
It's the contrarians upvoting this mess.
It's the contrarians upvoting this mess.
So some bloggers got mad she mislabeled an exhibitor a "booth babe" and now it is Apple's problem?
She writes that a) some Apple fanboys (i.e. not "some bloggers") went on a nasty, unsupported rampage and b) that this kind of activity damages Apple's reputation (arguably true). Whether or not it's "Apple's problem" is up to Apple to decide.
Neither is it an Apple thing. The headline would be more accurate as "The fanboy problem". One has only to spend a few days on Reddit to witness this clearly.
Violet Blue has an interestingly divergent point of view, and I appreciate her pieces. I think she's dead on right in calling out Internet lynch mob volatility and tendency for full on assault before all facts are known. She's also right to call out bloggers for publishing less than buttoned-up "journalism".
But referencing Apple here is the same as the NY Times piece on Foxconn, failing to point out the suicide pact was Xbox workers, for example.
Yes, Apple has a responsibility to review suppliers[1], and Gruber has a responsibility to check facts. But these lynching have been going on continually and from tribal camps of all stripes.
Her conclusion ("It is an aspect of Apple’s legacy from an older era - one that needs to go away.") ends well, but it's not Apple's legacy causing this.
1. http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/