Show HN: I built an email marketing tool made for indie hackers and solopreneurs(useplunk.com)
useplunk.com
Show HN: I built an email marketing tool made for indie hackers and solopreneurs
https://www.useplunk.com
61 comments
Thank you very much for this incredible feedback, very kind of you!
I have already made some minor changes (fixed the typo and moved dedicated support).
Tomorrow I will be looking into altering the copy because I do understand what you are saying and have heard the same feedback about the term "behavioural email tool"from a couple of people!
Thank you very much for linking Stripe Atlas' guide, seems really helpful and in-depth!
I have already made some minor changes (fixed the typo and moved dedicated support).
Tomorrow I will be looking into altering the copy because I do understand what you are saying and have heard the same feedback about the term "behavioural email tool"from a couple of people!
Thank you very much for linking Stripe Atlas' guide, seems really helpful and in-depth!
+1 for "I don't know what that means". I think I'm the target demographic, but I don't feel like can effectively compare the pros and cons of this product with something like MailChimp with the information available on the site.
I'd love to see a clearer breakdown of the features: - how come I trigger an event instead of sending an email directly? It seems like a neat abstraction with a lot of potential, but I haven't found the reasoning behind it in the site. - what can I do with workflow automation? Can I do complex logic based on multiple events? Can I do branching logic? Etc. - why wouldn't a larger company choose you? What's missing that's present in a more established product, and what advantages do you give over that product? I'm assuming cheaper and simpler, but I'd love to get a better idea about the now specific tradeoffs.
Overall, it seems like a really cool idea . I have a project in mind that I may use it for
I'd love to see a clearer breakdown of the features: - how come I trigger an event instead of sending an email directly? It seems like a neat abstraction with a lot of potential, but I haven't found the reasoning behind it in the site. - what can I do with workflow automation? Can I do complex logic based on multiple events? Can I do branching logic? Etc. - why wouldn't a larger company choose you? What's missing that's present in a more established product, and what advantages do you give over that product? I'm assuming cheaper and simpler, but I'd love to get a better idea about the now specific tradeoffs.
Overall, it seems like a really cool idea . I have a project in mind that I may use it for
Pretty good feedback here. Learned a thing or two myself.
What a very websitey web site. My first thought when I saw that home page was "boy, I bet if I keep scrolling, there's going to be empty areas on the page where things obnoxiously animate into place" and BOY HOWDY.
For your free tier which claims to offer unlimited emails, how are you stopping people from signing up and using it to blast out spam until you find it and kill their account (after which they will just sign up for another free account)? Services like these need to be very careful they're not sending out spam lest spam daemons start dropping all messages from their servers, causing emails from legitimate users to never hit their destination. If you don't have some extreme limits on this (like maybe one outgoing message per five minutes) I would suggest you do away with the free tier. Given the enormity of the problem of email spam and the disastrous effects being seen as a spam collaborator will have on your legit users, there's really no shame in getting a card on file and maybe even doing other identity validation before letting users send email with a tool like this.
For your free tier which claims to offer unlimited emails, how are you stopping people from signing up and using it to blast out spam until you find it and kill their account (after which they will just sign up for another free account)? Services like these need to be very careful they're not sending out spam lest spam daemons start dropping all messages from their servers, causing emails from legitimate users to never hit their destination. If you don't have some extreme limits on this (like maybe one outgoing message per five minutes) I would suggest you do away with the free tier. Given the enormity of the problem of email spam and the disastrous effects being seen as a spam collaborator will have on your legit users, there's really no shame in getting a card on file and maybe even doing other identity validation before letting users send email with a tool like this.
Amen. I get a lot of spam from senders that abuse free services (url shorteners, image hosting and redirect links). It could be a huge waste of time for you.
Replace all the text "above the fold" (readable without scrolling) with benefit not features. In other words, why I should keep reading, not how you do it.
That first text has one job: convince the person who clicked on the link to learn more (or, if they aren't a prospect, send them away so they don't waste your, and their, time). It's an elevator pitch, though not to an investor but to a customer.
Also, I like the indy hacker solopreneur part, even though my currrent startup is neither. That's why I clicked. But are you using those terms to pull in people who are discouraged by how clumsy the incumbents are (that would be me)? Or are you accidentally excluding people who could use this too (when apple launched the "airport" wifi access point around 2000 it was designed as a consumer product, but lots of people bought them and stuck them in the drop ceiling to get work done by getting around IT). There's no good answer to this, and perhaps the right thing is to start where you are and expand (like, say, Dropbox did). The reason other mail sending things are so hard to use is because big companies want lots of knobs to twiddle, and one of your benefits is not having those knobs. You don't want customers who want extra control knobs.
Is this for the back end or for mobile?
That first text has one job: convince the person who clicked on the link to learn more (or, if they aren't a prospect, send them away so they don't waste your, and their, time). It's an elevator pitch, though not to an investor but to a customer.
So: Make it easy to send mail from inside your app.
Or: Mail should be an easy part of your marketing. Plunk makes it easy.
Also, I like the indy hacker solopreneur part, even though my currrent startup is neither. That's why I clicked. But are you using those terms to pull in people who are discouraged by how clumsy the incumbents are (that would be me)? Or are you accidentally excluding people who could use this too (when apple launched the "airport" wifi access point around 2000 it was designed as a consumer product, but lots of people bought them and stuck them in the drop ceiling to get work done by getting around IT). There's no good answer to this, and perhaps the right thing is to start where you are and expand (like, say, Dropbox did). The reason other mail sending things are so hard to use is because big companies want lots of knobs to twiddle, and one of your benefits is not having those knobs. You don't want customers who want extra control knobs.
Is this for the back end or for mobile?
Awesome work! I would recommend showing a comparison table of the cost of some of your competitors and your product. I use customer.io for a side project and it's crazy expensive (I think like $150 a month), so it would (a) help showcase what products you're an alternative to and (b) show how much better priced you are. And to be honest, I don't need all their fancy features - just the ones you provide so this is great!
Random question, I noticed you are using Next for your site as well as your blog. What headless CMS are you using if any or is it just some markdown in a file?
Edit: the only downside I just remembered is that I would have to fire off separate events just for Plunk, since right now everything runs through Segment. Would be dope if you could integrate with them!
Random question, I noticed you are using Next for your site as well as your blog. What headless CMS are you using if any or is it just some markdown in a file?
Edit: the only downside I just remembered is that I would have to fire off separate events just for Plunk, since right now everything runs through Segment. Would be dope if you could integrate with them!
I wish there was more copy on this site about what the tool is and why it's useful. It looks interesting, but there's not enough information there for me to figure out if it's worth investing more.
I could do the free version to find out, but it'd be nice to have a 2-3 min video or page that goes more in depth on the features that are there.
I could do the free version to find out, but it'd be nice to have a 2-3 min video or page that goes more in depth on the features that are there.
Valuable feedback, thank you for this! How would you feel about a demo video where I show you how to set it up and go through the features at the same time?
Don't waste my attention on the one-time setup BS. Show why it kicks ass in less than 30s.
I agree that it would be helpful to show a simple use case on the home page. Maybe I'm not the target customer (although I am a soloproneur), but your user flow of (1) user clicking a button, (2) plunk receiving an event, (3) plunk sends an email, isn't really a problem that I have, since sending an email after an action is taken is pretty easy to manage. Are you are focusing on categorizing users into groups and sending them progressive emails?
A very big part of what Plunk does is giving you the opportunity to link multiple events together and delay emails. You can extend it to users that have clicked button A and B but not button C and send those an email after 5 days. Significantly harder to implement and a lot of code that isn't really used elsewhere!
Definitely describe this use case on the site. This is an interesting feature that I didn’t think existed based on the current site material!
Yeah, makes sense
Features, sure. Common use cases solved by the features, even better.
I disagree with the comment that more is needed.
"User clicks a button - fire an event to Plunk - sends email" makes total sense to me.
"User clicks a button - fire an event to Plunk - sends email" makes total sense to me.
I'm an indie hacker and I send 2M emails per month on Sendgrid. It costs around $1k per month.
I use sendgrid because it just works, but I'm always curious when a new thing comes around and I'd love to save some money.
How does this work at scale?
I use sendgrid because it just works, but I'm always curious when a new thing comes around and I'd love to save some money.
How does this work at scale?
At scale this should work fine. Some parts of the dashboard are not yet prepared for that amount of data to flow in though, may be hard to navigate and monitor.
I am also looking at the pricing for that because right now I offer unlimited emails but I need a good way to compensate for power users like yourself without going completely overboard.
I am also looking at the pricing for that because right now I offer unlimited emails but I need a good way to compensate for power users like yourself without going completely overboard.
Random but idk how to dm people on HN - how did you find the problem and validate closingCredits? How did you market it?
We use Segment->Vero as our main automated email marketing flow (~5M emails per month so not huge, we use Sendgrid via Vero to actually send the emails). We're looking to change to something more established like Iterable/Customer.io as Vero is very slow (UI and latency to send emails). More than happy to provide feedback as to what works/doesn't in your competitors.
That would be very valuable to my development! You can always reach out to me at [email protected]
"Completely free, no strings attached"
* Sees that I can't email from my own domain unless I pay. (I'm all for paying, but don't say completely free, no strings attached)
* Sees that I can't email from my own domain unless I pay. (I'm all for paying, but don't say completely free, no strings attached)
I get what you mean by this!
Let me clarify what my way of thought is behind the "completely free, no strings attached". I do not ask for your credit card info, I don't put you on a trial that magically renews at the end of the month, I don't offer you a sketchy sign-on deal with an unexpected bill at the end of the month. I try to make it as ethical as possible, unlike some other marketing/emailing tools.
That is my meaning behind no strings attached. Of course I put some features behind a subscription because they demand significant work from my side (managing the domains is one of those).
That is my meaning behind no strings attached. Of course I put some features behind a subscription because they demand significant work from my side (managing the domains is one of those).
I was confused by this. How is the email sent for free customers? From your domain? If so, that seems like a totally different (and worse, generally) thing than the competitors you list. It's fine to have a free tier, but then you can't really compare it to those competitors.
Write all that as bullet points on the website itself
Congrats for the launch! My startup also provide email marketing but we're not in similar vertical.
The biggest headache in this business is dealing with spammers. Trust me, you will get more signups from spammers than actual users. So you need to have a process in place to handle them. Personally I've tried many automated methods and rules to validate spammers but nothing works as well as manual verification.
The biggest headache in this business is dealing with spammers. Trust me, you will get more signups from spammers than actual users. So you need to have a process in place to handle them. Personally I've tried many automated methods and rules to validate spammers but nothing works as well as manual verification.
Congrats on the launch! Just so you know, the awstrack me URL used to verify accounts is blocked by my NextDNS tracking protection and my Firefox tracking protection. It’s not a special setting, just ended up on their block lists.
Something to be aware of though. You might want to switch that to use your own domain.
Something to be aware of though. You might want to switch that to use your own domain.
Thank you very much for this, I wasn't aware of that!
One feedback I have is that it seems like emails are just getting less and less read. They don't even make it to the main inbox for gmail users. I don't know how to reach people other than just hitting them up on Twitter but this is also tough since most people don't use Twitter actively.
I'm worried because if it gets tougher to reach people via email (you sure as hell not going to do it via cold calls), you are really left at the mercy of giant ad networks. Also if people are spending less now, its going to become even more costly as the number of people waiting to put their ads in front of you is always going to be there.
Just overall concerned about the state of the economy
I'm worried because if it gets tougher to reach people via email (you sure as hell not going to do it via cold calls), you are really left at the mercy of giant ad networks. Also if people are spending less now, its going to become even more costly as the number of people waiting to put their ads in front of you is always going to be there.
Just overall concerned about the state of the economy
Email marketing is a behemoth and showing no signs of slowing down. It’s a fine market to be in.
For sure, if your goal is to find some famous person and contact them directly, Twitter might be the better tool. But if you want to convert a one-off purchase into a repeat customer I think email will stay the best channel for that (at least for many, many businesses) for a long time
For sure, if your goal is to find some famous person and contact them directly, Twitter might be the better tool. But if you want to convert a one-off purchase into a repeat customer I think email will stay the best channel for that (at least for many, many businesses) for a long time
Are the top use cases for this sending emails for in-product actions or do people also use it for your marketing website too (eg to send a drip sequence when a customer requests a demo)?
It was built for in-product actions but you can use it for whatever suits your needs. It may need some extra code on your side to make that work though.
I am currently using it to check up on my users after they have either skipped or completed the onboarding so it is definitely doable!
I am currently using it to check up on my users after they have either skipped or completed the onboarding so it is definitely doable!
Congrats on launching!
I'd suggest rethinking "5 automated flows with unlimited emails" on the free plan. Sending a few emails is very cheap, but sending a lot of email is not. Inevitably somebody will sign up for the free plan and send far more email than you expect. It will either end up costing you money, impacting the experience for your other users, or both.
You can always offer higher limits on paid plans.
I'd suggest rethinking "5 automated flows with unlimited emails" on the free plan. Sending a few emails is very cheap, but sending a lot of email is not. Inevitably somebody will sign up for the free plan and send far more email than you expect. It will either end up costing you money, impacting the experience for your other users, or both.
You can always offer higher limits on paid plans.
I think one of the big value-adds of email tools is they help emails not end up in spam. It would be good if the website mentioned this if it is something that Plunk helps with compared to sending your own emails.
It is very hard to make statements about this. It very much depends on the reputation of your own domain (if you are not using our domain to send your emails) and the content of your emails if they will end up in spam. I have yet to see one of my own emails origination from @useplunk.com end up in somebody's spam folder! I believe that is a great start and further down the line (with more data) I may be able to make specific claims about it!
It sounds like the free version sends emails from the useplunk.com domain. If that is the case and some of those emails get marked as spam, won't all emails from the useplunk.com domain be more likely to be identified as spam?
Do not use your own corporate domain for user generated content.
Source: been there, done that ... there is no benefit to it and only pain.
Have a separate plunk-emails.com domain that is used for all emails. Or even have a bunch set up and rotate through them. This will mitigate spam impact too -- you will get spam issues even with 100% legit users
Source: been there, done that ... there is no benefit to it and only pain.
Have a separate plunk-emails.com domain that is used for all emails. Or even have a bunch set up and rotate through them. This will mitigate spam impact too -- you will get spam issues even with 100% legit users
I have built-in an automatic catch, if x% (still looking at what a good value for x is) of your emails bounce then your account gets quarantined and we see what we can do about that. That way we can prevent damage before other users get affected.
Does that make sense?
Does that make sense?
Bounce is different than spam. Are you DMARC monitoring?
Sorry about the confusing wording, with bounce I mean both hard bounces, rejects and complaints (they are all monitored appropriately). They are all taken into account when calculating the % because they all have impact on the domain reputation.
But how do you know a message lands in the SPAM folder in Google?
I believe email clients send back a rejection if it landed in spam. It is one of the metrics AWS SES can track for you.
https://docs.aws.amazon.com/ses/latest/dg/monitor-sending-ac...
https://docs.aws.amazon.com/ses/latest/dg/monitor-sending-ac...
Not quite. If a user actively reports a message as spam and also tells their service provider to report it to the sending service provider, then the sender will receive a report per RFC 6449: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feedback_loop_(email) , https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6449. That's what SES exposes.
If you get more than a tiny handful of these, shut the account down. Whatever the reason, users don't want the messages and it'll destroy your deliverability quickly. Assuming the sender is legit, they need to figure out why users don't like the messages.
However, the much more common case is that a recipient's mail provider categorizes a message as spam on its own, without any user involvement. That's what parent commenters are referring to.
That can be for any reason. Maybe the user has reported similar past messages as spam. OTOH, maybe other users at the recipient service have had low engagement with messages from the same sender. Or maybe there was a sudden increase in sending volume from a given netblock or domain.
Emails that the receiving system categorizes as spam do not trigger any notification to the sender. Other than by trying to deliver messages to canary accounts or waiting for customer complaints, you won't know this is happening.
If you get more than a tiny handful of these, shut the account down. Whatever the reason, users don't want the messages and it'll destroy your deliverability quickly. Assuming the sender is legit, they need to figure out why users don't like the messages.
However, the much more common case is that a recipient's mail provider categorizes a message as spam on its own, without any user involvement. That's what parent commenters are referring to.
That can be for any reason. Maybe the user has reported similar past messages as spam. OTOH, maybe other users at the recipient service have had low engagement with messages from the same sender. Or maybe there was a sudden increase in sending volume from a given netblock or domain.
Emails that the receiving system categorizes as spam do not trigger any notification to the sender. Other than by trying to deliver messages to canary accounts or waiting for customer complaints, you won't know this is happening.
Guessing you've already done it, but I worked on something loosely related to this a couple years back and best things you can do to avoid it are:
1. Make sure you've done DKIM and SPF verification via your SMTP provider.
2. Use an SMTP provider with a solid sender reputation (e.g., Postmark).
3. Help users keep lists clean. Aggressively handle bounces and make sure unsubscribe is easy to avoid spam complaints.
P.S. Dig the design/feel of everything. No immediate use but I've bookmarked to come back and give it a try when I do.
1. Make sure you've done DKIM and SPF verification via your SMTP provider.
2. Use an SMTP provider with a solid sender reputation (e.g., Postmark).
3. Help users keep lists clean. Aggressively handle bounces and make sure unsubscribe is easy to avoid spam complaints.
P.S. Dig the design/feel of everything. No immediate use but I've bookmarked to come back and give it a try when I do.
[deleted]
I think you want to limit the number of 'profiles' that you send unlimited emails to. It lets your income grow in line with your customer's ability to pay and limits your liability.
this looks useful! Could you please create actual use cases, e.g. a "learning center" for what is email marketing and how could indie hackers use it?
I think you could get a lot of us who are completely new to this concept — teach us what it is, how it's useful for us, and make it 1-click to set up using your tool.
I think you could get a lot of us who are completely new to this concept — teach us what it is, how it's useful for us, and make it 1-click to set up using your tool.
Awesome stuff. How did you validate your tool? Also did you validate before or after MVP?
Validating was really easy. I am really active on Twitter and saw loads of people complain about terrible APIs offered by some tools and the ridiculous pricing of others.
+ I also had this problem myself so I knew it was a big point of frustration.
I had pretty much validated the idea before creating the MVP!
+ I also had this problem myself so I knew it was a big point of frustration.
I had pretty much validated the idea before creating the MVP!
Looks great! Plans to turn it into a SaaS?
Some Feedback:
- The biggest words on the landing page are "Behavioural Email Tool" but I don't know what this means. Maybe I'm not in your market.
- As I read through what Plunk does, it sounds more like "email automation". However, Plunk is not like other email automation because... (insert your wildest dreams)
- Your pricing is too low. In the wise words of patio11, "Charge more!" For a detailed guide to pricing SaaS and how to think about your pricing, check out patio11's writing on the Stripe blog[1]
- There's a typo in your free plan: it should be "1 seat", not "1 seats".
- Don't offer "Amazing Support" on your free plan. Reason (1) is that users on the free plan tend to squeeze the most support out of you, and they're not even paying you. You can reach out to help them if you want, but don't promise support to free users. Reason (2) is that adding support is a good incentive for a serious business to upgrade to the pro plan. If I'm a business who's success/revenue relies on Plunk for my success, I surely would upgrade from a plan without support to one with support.
[1] https://stripe.com/atlas/guides/saas-pricing