Last Day of IKEA in Moscow(novayagazeta.ru)
novayagazeta.ru
Last Day of IKEA in Moscow
https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2022/03/04/poslednii-den-ikei
314 comments
> any men will take a beautiful woman for sex, but providing for her long term is another thing
Looks like you never dated a Russian woman. Beware! You may end up totally dominated and providing her long term :).
Jokes aside, poverty combined with increased materialism and class division was indeed a big problem in Eastern Europe after the fall of USSR. Lots of women simply wanted "something better", which is to be translated that they valued money a lot more than true love. Social values were turned upside down. Thieves and crooks became the new social reference for success. You could no longer impress a girl with just a smile and a guitar. It was somewhat normal to prove your masculinity by fighting on the street or spending lots of money in a stupid way. Police rarely bothered, unless someone "important" person was involved. Crime proliferated to unbelievable levels. People were stealing things like tires, fuel and windshield wipers. At some point I had to lock the battery of my soviet car with a padlock (battery costed nearly half of monthly income and for some people over here it still does). Oligarchs were born out of criminal activity and questionable privatization of government property, such as factories and land. Later it turned down most of oligarchs had connections to the ex-secret service ranks. Some of them were loyal to the US, others to Russia. Most medium to large business is still controlled by such people or their offspring. Foreign investment often needed their blessing. It is a long story indeed, but I feel that after more than 30 year of "transition" to the new form of rule, people are slowly returning to some of their previous values, such as family, friends and other non-material things.
Looks like you never dated a Russian woman. Beware! You may end up totally dominated and providing her long term :).
Jokes aside, poverty combined with increased materialism and class division was indeed a big problem in Eastern Europe after the fall of USSR. Lots of women simply wanted "something better", which is to be translated that they valued money a lot more than true love. Social values were turned upside down. Thieves and crooks became the new social reference for success. You could no longer impress a girl with just a smile and a guitar. It was somewhat normal to prove your masculinity by fighting on the street or spending lots of money in a stupid way. Police rarely bothered, unless someone "important" person was involved. Crime proliferated to unbelievable levels. People were stealing things like tires, fuel and windshield wipers. At some point I had to lock the battery of my soviet car with a padlock (battery costed nearly half of monthly income and for some people over here it still does). Oligarchs were born out of criminal activity and questionable privatization of government property, such as factories and land. Later it turned down most of oligarchs had connections to the ex-secret service ranks. Some of them were loyal to the US, others to Russia. Most medium to large business is still controlled by such people or their offspring. Foreign investment often needed their blessing. It is a long story indeed, but I feel that after more than 30 year of "transition" to the new form of rule, people are slowly returning to some of their previous values, such as family, friends and other non-material things.
Maybe you got down-voted by pissed-off Russian men, but your prediction regarding what will happen in the Russian society is spot on. The problem with the alcoholism and prostitution over there has already been pretty bad, but now it will of course get much much worse.
Unfortunately, so far in history Russia has only been a one huge long tragedy. Navalny gave a speech at his kangaroo trial that his wish is that Russia be happy. Maybe some day they might eventually figure out how to make that happen. But maybe not. 50 / 50 chance perhaps. But the next best thing would be that Russia does not spread tragedy to all other countries with radioactive fallout, and also no way to say for sure if that might happen or not, but does look likely.
Unfortunately, so far in history Russia has only been a one huge long tragedy. Navalny gave a speech at his kangaroo trial that his wish is that Russia be happy. Maybe some day they might eventually figure out how to make that happen. But maybe not. 50 / 50 chance perhaps. But the next best thing would be that Russia does not spread tragedy to all other countries with radioactive fallout, and also no way to say for sure if that might happen or not, but does look likely.
He's getting downvoted for the retrograde gender attitude. Even if he's making a valid point, casually using language like "men protecting their women" and "any man will..." makes me roll my eyes and reach for the downvote before I even realize what's happening.
It's nice that there are terms for any combination of words out there. But to get to the real point it's necessary to cut through the bs (reduce semantic complexity) and just say it like it is.
Yes, men protect their women and children during wars. Sounds raw and simple, but that is the truth. I advice you to think about it.
Yes, men protect their women and children during wars. Sounds raw and simple, but that is the truth. I advice you to think about it.
Context is very important here. Saying that in NYC or Paris, sure that’s ridiculous. In Russia? That would not surprise me. Our ideals of society should not prevent us from seeing a current reality.
OP wrote, "any men", not "any man", which is grammatically incorrect, so I assume it's a typo of "many men" which is not definite, and is a reasonable assumption in my opinion.
I am somewhat familiar with Russian history and it really has been pretty terrible for the Russian commoner in the last 500 years.
And the Russian elite prefers drinking champagne in France and shopping in Milan to improving their own nation.
Yes, I do feel sad for the Russian population. From the start of the invasion, I knew how much collateral damage Russia would take and that the damage done would last for decades. But then, the country of Russia is invading and destroying Ukraine right now. Just because no one bombs Russia, you cannot assume there are not damages to the country. The obvious way out would be massive public resistance to end this quickly.
Also, this should be a warning to any people who currently feel the temptation to elect a government which is basically fighting democracy. The effect in Russia is obvious, but it isn't as if there aren't such tendencies in other countries. Just watch which political parties try to discredit free media and you have a good first indicator.
Also, this should be a warning to any people who currently feel the temptation to elect a government which is basically fighting democracy. The effect in Russia is obvious, but it isn't as if there aren't such tendencies in other countries. Just watch which political parties try to discredit free media and you have a good first indicator.
> but what's happening in Russia as a result of sanctions is quite tragic in itself.
No, it's not. Your actions have consequences. Russia has been attacking neighboring countries and taking parts of their territories.
Moldova 1992.
Chechnya 2000-2009.
Georgia in 1992 and 2008.
Ukraine in 2014.
They are using the standard scheme of "oh, this part of your country decided to become independent, we will flood it with our troops and defend them, and then install russian puppets to rule over it".
Enough is enough. Russia needs to understand that this will not fly. You lose your job? Cry me a river. Look what you did to Ukrainian cities.
(i'm a russian immigrant to the US)
No, it's not. Your actions have consequences. Russia has been attacking neighboring countries and taking parts of their territories.
Moldova 1992.
Chechnya 2000-2009.
Georgia in 1992 and 2008.
Ukraine in 2014.
They are using the standard scheme of "oh, this part of your country decided to become independent, we will flood it with our troops and defend them, and then install russian puppets to rule over it".
Enough is enough. Russia needs to understand that this will not fly. You lose your job? Cry me a river. Look what you did to Ukrainian cities.
(i'm a russian immigrant to the US)
We have no idea what the higher order effects of this will be.
There is an article in the Atlantic how this could cause a depression in Tajikistan.
This couldn't possibly be at a more fragile global economic time either after 2 years of COVID.
The economic damage of this is not going to be isolated to Russia. We have practically injected the global economy with an unknown economic poison and we have no idea what it is going to do or how far it will spread.
There is an article in the Atlantic how this could cause a depression in Tajikistan.
This couldn't possibly be at a more fragile global economic time either after 2 years of COVID.
The economic damage of this is not going to be isolated to Russia. We have practically injected the global economy with an unknown economic poison and we have no idea what it is going to do or how far it will spread.
You know. Just because Putin doesn’t call it a war, it is a war. West is fighting with a different kind of attacks.
Also, you probably never dated an Eastern woman, they are not weak at all :)
Also, you probably never dated an Eastern woman, they are not weak at all :)
Only false information will get you a fine or a criminal conviction. If you report facts backed by hard evidence you'd be safe. To get 15 years you'd need to create some fakes on purpose that led to for example mass casualties at the war zone.
That's not how it works in Russia. Say, you film Russian soldiers shooting Ukrainian civilians. Plenty of videos of that. You post it on Youtube with an accurate description. The Ministry of Truth calls their henchmen to bring you to face the court. They ask you - what is this? You tell them - I filmed it myself, it's all true. OK, but can you prove it's Russian soldiers and not Ukrainian dressed as Russian? You: ... Them: OK, enjoy your 15 years.
You can't prove anything based on physical evidence if you dig deep enough. Anything can have an alternative explanation, however unlikely. Aliens, quantum fluctuations, you name it.
You can't prove anything based on physical evidence if you dig deep enough. Anything can have an alternative explanation, however unlikely. Aliens, quantum fluctuations, you name it.
a lot of business will be bought up by Chinese for pennies.
I feel exactly the same way and while #IStandForUkraine, my pessimistic side of me thinks that pushing Russia to extreme isolation is not going to have the expected result in the long run neither. This is an absolute tragedy.
Go visit the homepage of this newspaper. It's crazy, there's no clear reference to war or attacks. This article on Ikea is just an attempt to tell the desperation without breaking the censorship law.
I was also surprised by this. I find it absolutely crazy. The reason is that just few days ago the parliament of Russia introduced a law on "fakes about Russian army" with 15 years in prison penalty. What is "fake" is not defined so anyone for any statement about the war could be put in prison. Ah yes, people are also forbidden to call this a war, an agression or an invasion. You may say that there are other outlets of information, but no, all critical to Russian government newspapers, radio stations, tv channels were recently closed. Facebook, BBC, DW, YouTube blocked. The best analogy to what is going on there would be: a frog slowly boiling in a pan.
People from the west may say: well yes, our media is biased also. And that is true, but direction of this bias is different for each media outlet, so by watching something else you can find discrepancies and inconsistencies. While in Russia all tv, radio, newspapers are government controlled, so they put the same fake and propaganda which due to lack of anything else (all blocked) yields brain washing on a whole country scale.
Western media bias works by using selective reporting and omission, plus artful mixing of fact and opinion. It doesn’t too often make up outright bare-faced lies like we see coming from the Russian government.
Exactly. The news doesn't lie to me about the wealthy dodging taxes, but they sure don't report on it. There are also lots of technical truths, but heavily spun.
Huh? I read almost everywhere about it. Never heard about the Panama Papers?
Look at every single article discussing new taxes for the rich. You will find people (sometimes the article itself) arguing that the rich shouldn't be taxed because their money will "trickle down", despite this myth having been refuted decades ago.
Actually it's worse, there are lots of media publishing opinions, factoids, and things interesting to their audience. But depending on which media you read you are going to end up with a very different understanding of what is going on.
Russia has used this polarization to its advantage in recent years by adding its own targeted misinformation to the mix designed to further increase polarization (as opposed as to merely convincing people of their notion of the truth). Weaponized propaganda basically. Divisions in society erode the strength of alliances like NATO, it causes people to vote for outlier politicians, etc. Zelenski is a good example of such a politician where this actually backfired: he really stepped up. But the strategy was perhaps successful in the sense that Ukrainian governance has probably not been that great in recent years. The usual mix of populism, inept politicians, corruption, and mismanagement.
The Russians are world leading experts when it comes to mass delusion, propaganda, and misinformation and they completely control domestic media and information distribution. As far as many Russians are concerned this is a peace mission that is being frustrated by armies of neo-nazis sponsored by evil westerners. That's the official narrative right now. It's bat shit crazy of course but it follows many years of misinformation, indoctrination, and propaganda in a country that hasn't had a free press for a long time to correct any of these believes.
Also a note of caution: The Russians are extremely clued in and all over public fora like this. So, beware that what you read might be written by them. It might look and sound reasonable to you but that doesn't mean it isn't carefully designed to manipulate you into disagreeing with others. It would be preying on your confirmation bias. It doesn't matter what that bias is, they'll feed it. It's a divide and conquer strategy. They'll happily feed inflammatory opinions to both sides of a debate just to make them hate each other some more.
If you hadn't noticed, politics were kind of intense lately.
Russia has used this polarization to its advantage in recent years by adding its own targeted misinformation to the mix designed to further increase polarization (as opposed as to merely convincing people of their notion of the truth). Weaponized propaganda basically. Divisions in society erode the strength of alliances like NATO, it causes people to vote for outlier politicians, etc. Zelenski is a good example of such a politician where this actually backfired: he really stepped up. But the strategy was perhaps successful in the sense that Ukrainian governance has probably not been that great in recent years. The usual mix of populism, inept politicians, corruption, and mismanagement.
The Russians are world leading experts when it comes to mass delusion, propaganda, and misinformation and they completely control domestic media and information distribution. As far as many Russians are concerned this is a peace mission that is being frustrated by armies of neo-nazis sponsored by evil westerners. That's the official narrative right now. It's bat shit crazy of course but it follows many years of misinformation, indoctrination, and propaganda in a country that hasn't had a free press for a long time to correct any of these believes.
Also a note of caution: The Russians are extremely clued in and all over public fora like this. So, beware that what you read might be written by them. It might look and sound reasonable to you but that doesn't mean it isn't carefully designed to manipulate you into disagreeing with others. It would be preying on your confirmation bias. It doesn't matter what that bias is, they'll feed it. It's a divide and conquer strategy. They'll happily feed inflammatory opinions to both sides of a debate just to make them hate each other some more.
If you hadn't noticed, politics were kind of intense lately.
Russian propaganda has been completely steamrolled regarding the current war. The US has by far the most sophisticated propaganda apparatus in world history and it shows when Americans think they are completely free from propaganda. Have you ever seen an American news outlet be against a US involved war? I remember when journalists were threatened with being fired for even trying to speak out against the Iraq war. Does the news ever talk about universal healthcare? All of the American news outlets are owned by the American oligarchy and publish the news that's in their interest. We keep fighting wars, the rich get richer, the middle class continues to disappear, and wages stagnate.
You just do not have media h many cases. You can go to the Poland station and send a YouTube. Can you go to a Russian …
All these rubbish on freedom of speech ignore the key difference. Individual still matters.
All these rubbish on freedom of speech ignore the key difference. Individual still matters.
On this topic I can think of two that I'm seeing on a regular basis.
1. NATO is solely a defensive organization. Libya is the clearest counterexample but there others.
2. NATO never gave assurances it wouldnt move east. There are a number of recently released diplomatic caches that prove this to be false https://larouchepub.com/other/2021/4824-chatham_house_lies_a...
https://news.antiwar.com/2022/02/21/uncovered-document-revea...
2 is sometimes done selectively (by saying NATO never gave legal guarantees) but sometimes not.
1. NATO is solely a defensive organization. Libya is the clearest counterexample but there others.
2. NATO never gave assurances it wouldnt move east. There are a number of recently released diplomatic caches that prove this to be false https://larouchepub.com/other/2021/4824-chatham_house_lies_a...
https://news.antiwar.com/2022/02/21/uncovered-document-revea...
2 is sometimes done selectively (by saying NATO never gave legal guarantees) but sometimes not.
1. Lots of things get discussed. This was such a minor topic that Gorbachev didn't even recall it ever having been on agenda. Ultimately discussions lead to a formal agreement with a text approved by all sides and that's what counts. There is no formal agreement, only tiny snippets that mention it ever having been discussed.
2. The Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore. Even if such assurances had been made, a number (most by now?) of former parts of the Soviet Union have stepped away from it and applied for NATO. Why should Lithuania be eternally bound to an assurance made to the Soviet delegation, which at the time represented Lithuania? Even if all former members of the USSR applied for NATO, should they be denied because of the alleged assurance in the past to an entity that no longer exists?
2. The Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore. Even if such assurances had been made, a number (most by now?) of former parts of the Soviet Union have stepped away from it and applied for NATO. Why should Lithuania be eternally bound to an assurance made to the Soviet delegation, which at the time represented Lithuania? Even if all former members of the USSR applied for NATO, should they be denied because of the alleged assurance in the past to an entity that no longer exists?
>Lots of things get discussed.
Yes, and the contents of those discussions have been released under FOIA.
>This was such a minor topic that Gorbachev didn't even recall it ever having been on agenda.
I have no idea why Gorbachev's memory failed but it's clearly there in the minutes. In many discussions.
Pretending that it never happened is a lie.
>The Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore
Russia is the successor state.
Yes, and the contents of those discussions have been released under FOIA.
>This was such a minor topic that Gorbachev didn't even recall it ever having been on agenda.
I have no idea why Gorbachev's memory failed but it's clearly there in the minutes. In many discussions.
Pretending that it never happened is a lie.
>The Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore
Russia is the successor state.
It depends on the subject. Try to find a western media that defend the point of view of the Talibans for instance. Or their history and significance to the population for instance. Even in the most niche papers you won't find that. There will always be a line on their barbarian and anti democratic aspect. And that's why western medias didn't get that the US lost the war because the Talibans always had the backing of the majority of the population.
It is not about defending but presenting the point of view. It is easy to find articles explaining the Taliban point of view and why they had support in Afghanistan (I even saw a very interesting 5 hours documentary on the national french television not long ago with interviews of prominent talibans). It is not easy to find articles explaining the Ukrainian point of view in current Russian media.
> It is not easy to find articles explaining the Ukrainian point of view
Is it? Or is it just like the documentary you mention, somehow factual but leaving you only with contempt and outrage?
Is it? Or is it just like the documentary you mention, somehow factual but leaving you only with contempt and outrage?
If I had access to true Taliban information, produced by Talibans honestly explaining their positions , what they do, what they want their world to be like, etc, do you think it's likely I would just say "oh sure, it makes sense, I've been brainwashed into thinking you were something completely different"?
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Sure but representing the biases of their own reporters/population is very different than representing a censorship board run by a government.
Yes, I’ll just watch something else.
https://youtu.be/_fHfgU8oMSo
https://youtu.be/_fHfgU8oMSo
You don't get it. In the US you can watch something else, despite the oversized influence of media conglomerates.
Not so much... Russian media is getting blocked in some places in the west too. RT was blocked from YouTube and TV in the UK for example.
Agree with you on the fact that it was a questionable move.
But there is a big difference between excluding one source (which is directly and formally controlled by the Russian state).. and putting 15 year sentences on "publishing things that are not coming from the state news agency" (TAS)
BTW, and just FYI, if you want you can still read rt.com using 1.1.1.1 and 8.8.8.8
But there is a big difference between excluding one source (which is directly and formally controlled by the Russian state).. and putting 15 year sentences on "publishing things that are not coming from the state news agency" (TAS)
BTW, and just FYI, if you want you can still read rt.com using 1.1.1.1 and 8.8.8.8
Which totally makes sense. Russia is a dictatorship waging a war of aggression a democratic neighbour. Why should we give their state propaganda outlets any amplification?
I am reading Clark's Iron Kingdom: The Rise and Downfall of Prussia (<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002RI9PMM/>). Right after hearing about YouTube shutting down Russian state media channels, I was surprised to learn in the book of the extent of the freedom of the press in late 18th-century Prussia. A British visitor wrote that people were as free to speak as back home, citing a work that was very critical of the king in the context of Poland. During the Napoleonic wars, despite the existential threat to Prussia from France, at least four newspapers that celebrated Revolutionary France as the next step in human freedom were allowed to publish.
It's always preferable to counter propaganda with free speech. Even liars deserve the opportunity to speak. This is especially true when there is no formally declared war between the US and Russia.
It's always preferable to counter propaganda with free speech. Even liars deserve the opportunity to speak. This is especially true when there is no formally declared war between the US and Russia.
How did it work out for Prussia?
Because you believe in freedom of speech?
Typical liberal democracy has 2 modes of work: peace time and war time.
In time of peace, value of human life is infinite, thus fredom of someone ends where freedom of somewhere else starts. Nobody can cut basic freedoms of someone else without court decision.
In time of war, this freedom creates vulnerability, so modern democraties have utalitarian laws designed to maximise survivability of nation as whole instead. It's not so important for behemoths, but it's essential for smaller countries. However, even in large and powerful democraties there are loopholes around basic freedoms for desperate times, such as natural disaster, or assault, or war, etc.
For example, it's not allowed to shut somebody else, except when defending or to save life of someone else. It's not allowed to force somebody else to keep silence, except when it puts lifes of others in danger, such as hate speech, or division by race, color of skin, nationality, religion, income, etc.
Russian outlets are doing just that. They are trying to portrait other nations as evils. They are telling to Ukrainians that Jews are rulling our country (half truth, many politics in Ukraine are Jews), then they tell to Jews that Ukrainians are Nazi, to induce fighting between nationalities, to start civil war.
This creates danger for everybody, so we cried for years to shut down Russian propaganda. Nobody listened to us until today.
In time of peace, value of human life is infinite, thus fredom of someone ends where freedom of somewhere else starts. Nobody can cut basic freedoms of someone else without court decision.
In time of war, this freedom creates vulnerability, so modern democraties have utalitarian laws designed to maximise survivability of nation as whole instead. It's not so important for behemoths, but it's essential for smaller countries. However, even in large and powerful democraties there are loopholes around basic freedoms for desperate times, such as natural disaster, or assault, or war, etc.
For example, it's not allowed to shut somebody else, except when defending or to save life of someone else. It's not allowed to force somebody else to keep silence, except when it puts lifes of others in danger, such as hate speech, or division by race, color of skin, nationality, religion, income, etc.
Russian outlets are doing just that. They are trying to portrait other nations as evils. They are telling to Ukrainians that Jews are rulling our country (half truth, many politics in Ukraine are Jews), then they tell to Jews that Ukrainians are Nazi, to induce fighting between nationalities, to start civil war.
This creates danger for everybody, so we cried for years to shut down Russian propaganda. Nobody listened to us until today.
I don't think the separation to the time of peace and time of war is even needed.
Ideally, any limitation of freedom is there to actually guarantee freedom, e.g. your freedom is limited in the form of an obligation to come to a police station to submit an explanation, but thanks to that the police can protect people from those that would otherwise limit their freedoms.
In similar vein, freedom of speech has to be limited, when some propaganda could lead to the decrease of the freedom.
It is tricky of course to judge what limitations are justified, but I find the sanctions against russian news sources on the quite safe side.
Ideally, any limitation of freedom is there to actually guarantee freedom, e.g. your freedom is limited in the form of an obligation to come to a police station to submit an explanation, but thanks to that the police can protect people from those that would otherwise limit their freedoms.
In similar vein, freedom of speech has to be limited, when some propaganda could lead to the decrease of the freedom.
It is tricky of course to judge what limitations are justified, but I find the sanctions against russian news sources on the quite safe side.
Freedom of speech is not a vulnerability. The war did not start because too many westerners were able to watch RT. Ukraine is not in danger because of any conflict between jews and nazis.
[deleted]
I work with Russians. I want to know what lies they're being told. Right now it's tough to ask them for daily updates because frankly a lot of them hate this situation very much and are saddened and embarrassed by what their country is doing. I would also find it difficult to ask.
Russian propaganda. Russia doesn't have any functional media at the moment.
While it is true that journalism has suffered recently, this is a false equivalent.
It is true that in the US, if you want to live in a bubble, you can. However, that's a choice. There are many, many other information channels. And they are free to say whatever they want.
The real issue in the US, is the fact that so many people choose to live in a bubble. I bumped into this Vox piece the other day, "How American conservatives turned against the vaccine", that illustrates quite well how it really is destroying the US
It is true that in the US, if you want to live in a bubble, you can. However, that's a choice. There are many, many other information channels. And they are free to say whatever they want.
The real issue in the US, is the fact that so many people choose to live in a bubble. I bumped into this Vox piece the other day, "How American conservatives turned against the vaccine", that illustrates quite well how it really is destroying the US
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sv0dQfRRrEQThere are also a lot of systematic biases in western media, first of all they all write that the west is really, really great. If they don't write that, and only write that the west is really great, then their readers will look for a publication that uses an appropriate number of "really" when telling their readers that the west, and by extension the presumably western reader, is great.
Can you point to some examples of that? Sorry but your revelations sound like utter bs...
Iran's nuclear program, that looks actually a lot like Germany's in the 60ies. Both are most likely some kind of nuclear threshold strategy, that is one tries to exploit dual use technology and push the actual decision wether it is a civilian or military nuclear program as far out as possible. Now, it is possible to interpret that as a military program, however the qualifier that that is an interpretation, and that it wasn't actually shown is always lost. And that is precisely how these kinds of biases work, it is not that newspapers outright lie, they just use their wiggling room in a consistent manner.
Actually best to observe is at the Olympics, there is across competitions and therefore across commentators, a very consistent national hierarchy for which athletes the moderator will make excuses or for which athletes the moderator seeks to qualify the performance. (Think of doping for example.)
Actually best to observe is at the Olympics, there is across competitions and therefore across commentators, a very consistent national hierarchy for which athletes the moderator will make excuses or for which athletes the moderator seeks to qualify the performance. (Think of doping for example.)
This is ... just not true. I mean, it is not true about media in EU. It is not true about right wing media in America. It is not true about centrist media in America. And not true about their leftist ones.
You wrote everything correct, I just want to explain a little bit for the western audience: “fake” here doesn't mean that facts will be checked. It means: “if you are posting something we don't like - chief editor and some journalists will be jailed”.
And chief editor of this newspaper has this prize: https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace/2021/muratov/facts/
And chief editor of this newspaper has this prize: https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace/2021/muratov/facts/
This is actually easy to know:
Did you say something positive (judged by the state)? It is not fake news.
Did you say something negative (judged by the state)? It is fake news.
It is a simple erosion of citizen rights, giving the state vastly more power over its citizens than previously.
Did you say something positive (judged by the state)? It is not fake news.
Did you say something negative (judged by the state)? It is fake news.
It is a simple erosion of citizen rights, giving the state vastly more power over its citizens than previously.
“The recent unpleasantness in Ukraine”
As one of Novaya backers, I voted for it to continue operations, even under the censorship. The Novaya team and their readers are bright people who can write and read between the lines, a working independent media of any form, not blocked by roskomnadzor, is more valuable than none. The alternative was to shut down and wait until the situation resolves. I admire their resolve.
I am conflicted about this. On one hand, people’s livelihoods are at stake, and one can argue some news is better than no news. On the other hand, by continuing reporting on events unrelated to war, are we not helping Putin’s regime to push the “it’s all fine, don’t worry about the war” agenda?
The point is, Novaya will absolutely find a way to report about the rapidly declining situation in a manner barely acceptable by dumb censors. It's chief editor didn't get his peace Noble for nothing.
I am really sorry to say this but as of last midnight Novaya Gazeta have ceased their newsroom operation.
https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2022/03/01/o-rabote-v-uslov...
https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2022/03/01/o-rabote-v-uslov...
Not so sure on “absolutely”. Echo Moscow was riding this sharp line through thick and thin for 30 years, and even they had to close up shop yesterday.
You go to jail for any reporting related to the war in Russia. No exceptions.
One way to check is go to to a news aggregator, like news.Google.com, choose Russian region for Russian related news. Use a translate service to get a view what information is shared. I have done it out of a habit - and the level of control is extreme that no useful information is shared.
I know. But not reporting _anything_ is not unlawful, and seems more honest than playing along with government’s rules. At least then it’s clear that Russia has no independent media. The way I see it is a newspaper in Nazi Germany deciding to focus on the economy, because they can’t report on concentration camps. Better than nothing, maybe, but works great for distracting people from genocide. Again, I understand it’s people’s livelihoods, so I don’t want to judge them too harshly.
> one can argue some news is better than no news
The problem is that people expect (and rightly so) that the news is reporting what is important right now, so if one area is not being reported on it sends the message that it is not important. Censoring one story basically says that either it is not happening or that it is not important in the eyes of the journalists.
The problem is that people expect (and rightly so) that the news is reporting what is important right now, so if one area is not being reported on it sends the message that it is not important. Censoring one story basically says that either it is not happening or that it is not important in the eyes of the journalists.
They were told to censor or be sued. They removed any postings of war after that. Novaya Gazeta is a newspaper critical of current Russian affairs.
They know they risk a lot more than being sued. Novaya Gazeta is also the newspaper the journalist, and Putin's strong critic, Anna Politkovskaya wrote for before being murdered on Oct 7 2006. Note that Oct 7 is the birthday of Vladimir Putin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Politkovskaya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Politkovskaya
Yes, I understood immediately the
position of the newspaper browsing a bit the site.
There are a lot of comments here talking about Ikea, Russian alternatives and business opportunities. I think they are somehow missing the point
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They do a great share here: https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2022/03/01/o-rabote-v-uslov...
Where they explain what "fake news", according to the governement, is.
Where they explain what "fake news", according to the governement, is.
They're clearly still doing what they can... There is a big long story about a mother who has had to have a funeral for her soldier son who has died but the authorities won't give the body back or any details about how he died.
There were before, for example: https://web.archive.org/web/20220225133800/https://novayagaz...
These kind of photos always impress me about the number of people who are on their phones. We dont live in countries anymore, we live in screens with our legs on some kind of ground. I hope it's not irreversibly long until these stores can be reopened. We should stop pretending we re living in the cold war era, world is always new. Russia has shown itself to be an irresponsible holder of nukes. After the fall of putin regime it has to rejoin the rest of the world as just a 'country'
> Russia has shown itself to be an irresponsible holder of nukes.
In which way, so far only a single country has used nuclear weapons in war, and it’s not Russia.
In which way, so far only a single country has used nuclear weapons in war, and it’s not Russia.
To be fair, they just happened to be the only ones with nukes at the time. Someone had to try it sometime to figure out exactly how horrible it would be.
It’s much preferable that it happened with a 20kt bomb, as opposed to a 20Mt one.
It’s much preferable that it happened with a 20kt bomb, as opposed to a 20Mt one.
Interesting point: nobody has used a fusion bomb in a war.
It was threatened this week, though. I don't think that has happened in a long time.
It was threatened this week, though. I don't think that has happened in a long time.
in using the rules-based order (its right to threaten people with nukes) to break this rules-based order
In the way they actively threatened a nuclear holocaust.
They may be spending much less time on their phones soon. The apps in Russia are shutting down like falling dominoes. Same goes for phone sales.
I wonder if the reliance on external services for apps to function will eventually force Russia to accelerate isolating their internet infrastructure. I know they've been attempting to do that. But now this might be the impetus.
> We don’t live in countries anymore, we live in screens with our legs on some kinda of ground
This would explain the over abundance of people on this website that care more about access to digital bits than they care for sanctioning a dictatorship who attacks a neutral country.
This would explain the over abundance of people on this website that care more about access to digital bits than they care for sanctioning a dictatorship who attacks a neutral country.
I mean, from the look of it, most of them are stood in queues doing nothing.
These photos kind of perfectly sum up just how bizarre the situation is.
Sadly, it seems more russians are concerned about not getting a BILLY than standing up to Putin.
It's easy to point the finger when you're not the one facing the very real threat of 15 years in a Russian prison.
That's a fair point, but the state of their prisons and their political system is their responsibility, right?
I have a lot of compassion and empathy for the situation the Russian people are in right now, but they did make the system they are currently living in. If they want it to stop, they are going to have to stop it.
I have a lot of compassion and empathy for the situation the Russian people are in right now, but they did make the system they are currently living in. If they want it to stop, they are going to have to stop it.
Putin is effectively unelected. Their election system is a multi-tiered hoax and just another method of deception.
The alcoholic "President" before Putin had actual tanks firing at congress when things didn't go his way.
Before that, communist supreme rulers who murdered those who opposed them. And their own party members to get the throne.
Before that, Tsars, imperialist supreme rules who murdered those who opposed them. And their own family members to get the throne.
The alcoholic "President" before Putin had actual tanks firing at congress when things didn't go his way.
Before that, communist supreme rulers who murdered those who opposed them. And their own party members to get the throne.
Before that, Tsars, imperialist supreme rules who murdered those who opposed them. And their own family members to get the throne.
I get it, dictatorship sucks, but the subjects of the dictator are the only people capable of dethroning him. The tanks aren't going to shoot themselves.
is it our responsibility that we protested the regime, forcing Putin to ramp up the repressions, to strengthen the police? If so, I guess we should've just stood still and patiently wait for Putin to die of old age instead of attempting to change anything.
This is going to sound rough, and I don't actually mean it personally. As i said, i have a lot of compassion that this isn't easy, and I'm not sure I'd have the fortitude to do it either, BUT. It is your responsibility that Putin is in a position where he CAN ramp up repressions. YOU are the power he wields, and it's you that have to resist him. Without a population to preside over, the president is nothing. Without an army to fire the tanks, the tanks are just hunks of metal.
Again, I don't want this to sound like a blame you. I understand that real life is more scary than some intellectual debate on HN, especially coming from a dude in western Europe, but philosophically I don't see who else holds the blame, because it's sure as hell not ONLY Putin.
Again, I don't want this to sound like a blame you. I understand that real life is more scary than some intellectual debate on HN, especially coming from a dude in western Europe, but philosophically I don't see who else holds the blame, because it's sure as hell not ONLY Putin.
How many countries' farmer populations overthrew militant dictators or monarchs at risk of death and dismemberment? All of Europe, pretty much? The entirety of the United States? "oh you can go to prison" is a pretty weak excuse.
One gets you a bookshelf and the other gets you a jail cell.
Do you really blame them?
Do you really blame them?
A jail cell... or a bounty on your head https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31669061
Just like when the west stood up to the US Government and stopped the Iraq war? It's easy to point the finger when you're far from the reality.
It was meant half as a snarky comment and half as a sad testimonial of human nature. I mean: You hear the news that Ikea is closing, you likely link it to the world news, you think "got to buy some last minute furniture". I know it is human.
On the other hand: Lots of people protested the Iraq war. Lots of governments in the west did not participate in the coalition of the willing and protested (I know Germany under Chancellor Schröder did). Should we have done more against it? Probably. I still would justify it with it being a 9/11 aftermath thing, where the USA was on a rampage to get revenge and at the same time being absolutely unchallenged 10 years after the end of the cold war. They couldn't have been stopped by anyone.
On the other hand: Lots of people protested the Iraq war. Lots of governments in the west did not participate in the coalition of the willing and protested (I know Germany under Chancellor Schröder did). Should we have done more against it? Probably. I still would justify it with it being a 9/11 aftermath thing, where the USA was on a rampage to get revenge and at the same time being absolutely unchallenged 10 years after the end of the cold war. They couldn't have been stopped by anyone.
That helpless perception you feel against the US Government is likely the same thing the average decent-minded Russian is feeling right now? At least it's unlikely you'd get 15 years protesting in the West.
Include France in there, hence the propagandas like "White flag", "French need saving", "Freedom fries", and the deep resentment of France in the US.
Try the Vietnam proxy war.
And any sensible and rational being with non-zero knowledge of Iraq and Saddam's transgressions against humanity should support the Iraq war which was all about toppling him. Since you're clearly not one of those, here's some homework to get you started: Halabja massacre, Kuwait invasion.
And any sensible and rational being with non-zero knowledge of Iraq and Saddam's transgressions against humanity should support the Iraq war which was all about toppling him. Since you're clearly not one of those, here's some homework to get you started: Halabja massacre, Kuwait invasion.
Word was Sadam killed 10,000 people during his reign, which is certainly abominable. US attack on Iraq killed over 10,000 people in several days
Here's some for yourself to contemplate: The IBC project has recorded a range of at least 185,194 – 208,167 total violent civilian deaths through June 2020 in their database. Was this a justifying cost to toppling him? Was the decision the American Government's to make?
Those events you mention are also a full 13 years before the war in Iraq started, why the delay, why end the gulf war? If my memory recalls, there was a lot of noise around WMDs at the time and questionable evidence for justification.
Those events you mention are also a full 13 years before the war in Iraq started, why the delay, why end the gulf war? If my memory recalls, there was a lot of noise around WMDs at the time and questionable evidence for justification.
A lot of innocent civilians die in the process of toppling any eternal psychopathic dictator with firm grip on their country. The bloodbath of WW2 could have been completely avoided if Hitler was simply allowed to take a bunch of countries and kill some minorities. If that works for you then there is something awfully twisted about you. This, however, doesn't work for people under those regimes - the ones that actually get burned.
Also, chemical weapons are WMDs - something Saddam had and used. More homework for you: Operation Opera. Left alone, this guy would be a more psychotic ME DPRK. It's hard to imagine that DPRK itself doesn't come close to Iraq under Saddam.
Also, chemical weapons are WMDs - something Saddam had and used. More homework for you: Operation Opera. Left alone, this guy would be a more psychotic ME DPRK. It's hard to imagine that DPRK itself doesn't come close to Iraq under Saddam.
Saddam's chemical weapons were manufactured and sold by USA firms. Again and again, we create more problems attempting to solve the problems we created in the first place. Most Americans don't realize this because their thoughts are provided by the war media.
Ukraine is not an exception.
Ukraine is not an exception.
Don't forget those babies getting thrown out of those incubators!
If spreading “fake news” about Putin could get you locked up for 15 years you might be equally disinclined to protest.
Then again their neighbors have to live with things worse than jail.
Do you think that's going to stop when probably already over crowded Russian jails fill up with dissidents?
Do you not think it's matter at all? Is history already completely laid out and unchangeable? Is the Russian people without any agency in their own lives and the life of their nation?
Damn, I wish I was a slightly quicker witted so I could have said something like:
No, I think you're delusional.
No, I think you're delusional.
How much more agency do you think being in jail grants one?
No, I don't think Russians have much, if any, agency in the path their nation takes. For that matter, I don't think many Australians have much agency of Australia - all we get is representative democracy, and the selection of candidates seems to be almost entirely self-serving to the point of no longer even pretending to acting on behalf of those they represent. I understand that I'm able and capable to do more, I just not that interested in public life, I have an unsavoury criminal record, and the local media, owned by a media giant, already is quite fond of reminding everyone of things that happened nearly a decade a go any chance they get.
I think one of three things is going to happen in Ukraine: either Putin gets what he wants, and Europe are ok with that; he doesn't, and a protracted proxy & guerilla war carries on for possibly decades; or lastly he is deposed by what amounts to an inside job. In neither of these three eventualities does and one, or a group of, average Russian's actions have much, if any, impact.
My personal take is that within about three months Russia will have a new leader, although as often is the case in these situations, the new one will likely be worse than the old one.
No, I don't think Russians have much, if any, agency in the path their nation takes. For that matter, I don't think many Australians have much agency of Australia - all we get is representative democracy, and the selection of candidates seems to be almost entirely self-serving to the point of no longer even pretending to acting on behalf of those they represent. I understand that I'm able and capable to do more, I just not that interested in public life, I have an unsavoury criminal record, and the local media, owned by a media giant, already is quite fond of reminding everyone of things that happened nearly a decade a go any chance they get.
I think one of three things is going to happen in Ukraine: either Putin gets what he wants, and Europe are ok with that; he doesn't, and a protracted proxy & guerilla war carries on for possibly decades; or lastly he is deposed by what amounts to an inside job. In neither of these three eventualities does and one, or a group of, average Russian's actions have much, if any, impact.
My personal take is that within about three months Russia will have a new leader, although as often is the case in these situations, the new one will likely be worse than the old one.
Yeah. Between the masks and the war I think people will look back on these pictures 20 years from now and scratch their heads
Contemporary Russia started with the line to McDonald's in 1990, and ended with the line to Ikea in 2022.
They say every crisis is an opportunity. This could be a great opportunity for Russian owned brands to establish themselves and thrive later when the crisis is hopefully resolved.
Provided they are vertically integrated and own the entire supply chain.
Otherwise they will find that planes not flying in/out and container ships not delivering will make it hard to import anything at scale. Not that they could pay for goods anyway.
Also I suspect China may use its new found leverage to flood the Russian market with their goods.
Otherwise they will find that planes not flying in/out and container ships not delivering will make it hard to import anything at scale. Not that they could pay for goods anyway.
Also I suspect China may use its new found leverage to flood the Russian market with their goods.
Would Russia have an advantage in timber/forestry? Russia has almost 4x the forest area, but not sure about felling and organised industry around it. Almost 50% of Russia is forested to China's 23%, though I also found articles about China aggressively reforesting.
It can easily changed as since ancient time china can claim S belong to C via monolgolian empire. When Russia is so dependent on china for everything, do you think chinese empire would just sit and let Russia grab so many lands of theirs from not so ancient unfair treaty.
Mafia families are not rely upon …
Mafia families are not rely upon …
Even Finland, the densest forest in Europe imports 80% of its wood pellets from Russia. Russia's got plenty of trees being felled.
What I can't comment on however is the quality of lumber for construction purposes. Making pellets is trivial. Furniture, less so.
What I can't comment on however is the quality of lumber for construction purposes. Making pellets is trivial. Furniture, less so.
That's a smart take I have not fully thought through.
Beyond just economically, perhaps potential big gains politically by using money & leverage to become the controlling mother that Russia is to Belarus, making russia the dependent & ruled child.
Beyond just economically, perhaps potential big gains politically by using money & leverage to become the controlling mother that Russia is to Belarus, making russia the dependent & ruled child.
I feel this is the real selling point of democracy and free media, its hard for a foreign nation to buy an entire electorate.
Several nations seem to be setting themselves up for irrelevence by undermining democracy, usually at the behest of powerful groups within the country, but to do so they basically need to pay a bunch of people to tell lies. They've then created a network that external corporations and government actors can take advantage of. If the Russian news suddenly started telling the truth mixed with 30% Chinese propaganda, then to the average Russian that would be noticeably more true than what they are getting now.
Would the presenters tell blatant Chinese lies to decieve their people? Well apart from the chinese bit they obviously do, so you basically hope they're all actually insane true-believers, because if theyre just ordinary Russians spreading obvious BS in return for a decent paycheck then thats an obvious weak point for the nation.
And Russia knows this is viable, as they do it to other nations.
Several nations seem to be setting themselves up for irrelevence by undermining democracy, usually at the behest of powerful groups within the country, but to do so they basically need to pay a bunch of people to tell lies. They've then created a network that external corporations and government actors can take advantage of. If the Russian news suddenly started telling the truth mixed with 30% Chinese propaganda, then to the average Russian that would be noticeably more true than what they are getting now.
Would the presenters tell blatant Chinese lies to decieve their people? Well apart from the chinese bit they obviously do, so you basically hope they're all actually insane true-believers, because if theyre just ordinary Russians spreading obvious BS in return for a decent paycheck then thats an obvious weak point for the nation.
And Russia knows this is viable, as they do it to other nations.
> its hard for a foreign nation to buy an entire electorate
You sure? According to the US government, a few hundred thousand dollars on Facebook ads was enough to buy a US President (c.f Trump, Donald J).
You sure? According to the US government, a few hundred thousand dollars on Facebook ads was enough to buy a US President (c.f Trump, Donald J).
The US was one of the countries I was talking about that intentionally undermined their own democracy.
Did Trump win the popular vote? Would he have had any chance in a proportional voting system? Or if you had to vote? (He himself says no Republican could be elected if people could easily vote). Who made that possible and why?
Did Trump win the popular vote? Would he have had any chance in a proportional voting system? Or if you had to vote? (He himself says no Republican could be elected if people could easily vote). Who made that possible and why?
No. No. No. The constitution, state, and county voting laws.
This would make Russia the second child after North Korea.
This whole thing makes me question the western/NATO motives of not pursuing de-escalation. Wouldn’t agreeing to Putin’s NATO non expansion terms be better than letting your economic competitor to basically establish monopoly on the entire Russian economic atmosphere?
Supplication to a tyrant worked only to incite unprovoked invasion and war crimes. The west believed that integrating Russia through economy and trade would bring us together. It only revealed Russia is not yet ready and still believes everybody is out to get them like some traumatised recluse.
Enough is enough, the west has awoken to the sad reality that Russia has not changed.
Also the Baltic sovereign nations remember very very very well what it was like under Russian oppression. They are not going back to that.
Finnish people remember burning their homes ahead of the advancing tank armies. We remember both wars and many of us have the memories in our blood.
Also the Baltic sovereign nations remember very very very well what it was like under Russian oppression. They are not going back to that.
Finnish people remember burning their homes ahead of the advancing tank armies. We remember both wars and many of us have the memories in our blood.
You do realize that Russia has more nukes than any country in the world, right? Whether you like it or not, cornering Russia in this way and not offering a way out of this mess without some dignity is an invitation for Putin to do something catastrophic and desperate. Big talk like this is foolish and could end up with a nuclear nightmare regardless of which side is right.
Maybe nuclear war is better than letting Russia win.
Putin isn't some madman sitting on a launch button. No matter how desperate he gets, he needs military command to follow through on an order to start world war 3.
Considering how superbly Russia is fucking up a simple ground invasion, I'd say any threat of nuclear escalation is empty at worst.
Putin says roll tanks into Ukraine? Yeah fine, military commanders oblige. They won't lose much over it. Putin says nuke the world? Well, about that... Even military commanders still want to survive.
Considering how superbly Russia is fucking up a simple ground invasion, I'd say any threat of nuclear escalation is empty at worst.
Putin says roll tanks into Ukraine? Yeah fine, military commanders oblige. They won't lose much over it. Putin says nuke the world? Well, about that... Even military commanders still want to survive.
I know enough about human nature and what people (and especially a group of generals) are willing to do when cornered that pushing Russia too far could be one of the worst strategic mistakes in recent world history.
That would imply that sovereign states don't get to decide who they're aligned with. As seen with Ukraine that in turn would make them first targets for an invasion.
Such a decision would be anything but de-escalation.
Such a decision would be anything but de-escalation.
The reality is that Sovereignty is relative to how close a country is to the border of super power nations. Do you think Mexico or Canada can ally with any nation or join any military alliance they wish?
I don't know about Mexico or Canada, but Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland are all both Russia's neighbours and NATO members.
Either Russia is not a superpower or it's not that relevant.
Either Russia is not a superpower or it's not that relevant.
Or Russia does not find those countries to be enough of a threat either due to size, military force, existing relationships, geographical boundaries, or a multitude of other factors. Or maybe Russia has begrudgingly accepted those countries joining NATO, but the last straw was a huge neighbor like Ukraine joining that is strategically important to them.
Putin's 'non-expansion' terms actually mean rolling NATO back. Sure, it'd probably 'work' in the sense that he'd be able to restore the Russian Empire as a result. I guess he might be happy with just that.
there are plenty of planes flying in and out, container ships delivering, and cross border payments happening, right now.
Not for long potentially. I don't have the link right now, but someone posted an interesting thread on Twitter how to fly planes you need a lot of international support. Down to things like supply of replacement parts and access to repair manuals. Their estimate (not sure if accurate) is that in 3 weeks, domestic aviation in Russia will become very hard to run.
(Boing and Airbus already suspended providing replacement parts)
I haven't heard anything about impact on container ships yet, so curious what's the situation there...
(Boing and Airbus already suspended providing replacement parts)
I haven't heard anything about impact on container ships yet, so curious what's the situation there...
[deleted]
Might come as a surprise, but Boing and Airbus are not the only civil airplane manufacturers in the world.
They're certainly not, but they're the biggest and the Russian airlines already own or lease a lot of Boeing and Airbus planes. Aeroflot is nearly all Airbus[0] and Rossiya[1] (largest operator of Russian-made Sukhoi planes) is around half Airbus, half Sukhoi. They could indeed just scrap these and buy a shiny new fleet of, say, Embraer jets but that would involve retraining pilots and support staff, not to mention actually paying for them and waiting for them to be built + delivered (I don't imagine Embraer have a big showroom full of planes ready to be taken home!).
[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_fleet
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossiya_Airlines
[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_fleet
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossiya_Airlines
Just like Embraer would have a ton of trouble delivering a 500 plane replacement, think about what would it take to return 500 leased planes (and for the leasing companies to lease them to someone else to avoid going bankrupt, and for Boeing to deal with a deluge of cheap second-hand planes, etc etc).
Even if all 500 planes are instantly returned at the end of March (how?), there will be reduced traffic to Europe due to the current European bans, and the rest of the traffic will be handled by the remaining fleet. I'm not even talking about Comac or other options.
Even if all 500 planes are instantly returned at the end of March (how?), there will be reduced traffic to Europe due to the current European bans, and the rest of the traffic will be handled by the remaining fleet. I'm not even talking about Comac or other options.
I think the point being made originally was not that the leased planes will be returned (many articles suggest they won't), it was that these planes need ongoing maintenance and parts which the airlines won't have access to. The original tweet thread viraptor is referring to suggested that this is something that will hit the airlines much sooner than we laypersons might have imagined.
We'll see in the coming weeks, but the scenario you describe where a catastrophic decline in Russian flights such that there are enough non-Airbus/Boeing planes that can manage them is effectively a collapse in Russian civil aviation sector which is kinda what the thread was implying.
The thread in question https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1498723248183382020.html
We'll see in the coming weeks, but the scenario you describe where a catastrophic decline in Russian flights such that there are enough non-Airbus/Boeing planes that can manage them is effectively a collapse in Russian civil aviation sector which is kinda what the thread was implying.
The thread in question https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1498723248183382020.html
That was the exact thread I was looking for. Thank you.
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Fortunately for civilian Russian aviation, there are currently plenty of foreign-owned planes that just happen to be sitting on Russian airfields, that can't go anywhere, and are chock-full of spare parts.
It might get them out of a tight spot in the short term, but I'm not sure if cannibalising abandoned planes is a particularly viable long-term strategy
Practically they are the only ones. While Chinese and Russian make some of their own they are still dependent on West for engine and other critical components.
Engines: MC-21 flew with a locally built PD-14 engine in 2020 (wikipedia). Work is underway on SSJ-New with a local PD-8 or a PD-14. There was a snag with composites, which were sanctioned by US a few years ago because of some other random bullshit, but now they are built locally as well.
> other critical components
Like what? This sounds a bit hand-wavy, what are those critical components, if you don't mind me asking?
> other critical components
Like what? This sounds a bit hand-wavy, what are those critical components, if you don't mind me asking?
Container shipping is about to be reduced, Maersk just announced that they would only ship food to Russia going forward.
Aviation in Russia might come mostly to a halt. About 500 airplanes are leased and have to be returned within a month to the leasing companies, the rest is running out of spare parts quickly.
So now we are all of a sudden in the "might come to a halt" hypothetical. Ok. First of all, at least 40% of the planes are home-built, so aviation in Russia most certainly will not come to a halt.
Then, how do you picture 500 planes getting returned and leasing companies instantly re-leasing them to other customers to keep their own business afloat? Even if that does happen, worst case, that will reduce Russian air traffic to something like Covid days-level. There are a lot of hypotheticals in this thread, facts on the ground right now are, the planes are flying, cargo ships are delivering and all but 7 banks are moving the money across the borders just fine.
Then, how do you picture 500 planes getting returned and leasing companies instantly re-leasing them to other customers to keep their own business afloat? Even if that does happen, worst case, that will reduce Russian air traffic to something like Covid days-level. There are a lot of hypotheticals in this thread, facts on the ground right now are, the planes are flying, cargo ships are delivering and all but 7 banks are moving the money across the borders just fine.
> First of all, at least 40% of the planes are home-built, so aviation in Russia most certainly will not come to a halt.
Home-build - maybe, but not without parts from the US\EU, not to mention most of the production equipment is not Russian too and you have to maintain it or replace it at somepoint.
Oh and to build something you need materials - some are local, some will have to be replaced if possible.
This will be a huge problem, especially in a country with strong corruption tradition.
Home-build - maybe, but not without parts from the US\EU, not to mention most of the production equipment is not Russian too and you have to maintain it or replace it at somepoint.
Oh and to build something you need materials - some are local, some will have to be replaced if possible.
This will be a huge problem, especially in a country with strong corruption tradition.
Or salvage parts and engines from the leased Boeings if they are comparable.
That would assume they are willing to break their contract and not returning the machines. Which they can do, but then they will never be able to lease a machine again. At best, this buys them a couple of months of operations.
You underestimate the shortsightedness and short memories of businessmen when shown a pile of cash, especially at companies like Boeing and other defense manufacturers.
The businessmen might think of their wallets first, but as long as the sanctions last, they cannot send spare parts to Russia. Also, the defense manufacturers are currently quite happy with the increased defense spendings.
Whatever the US role in the events in Ukraine was, for sure they won't let Russia off the hook easily after this invasion.
Whatever the US role in the events in Ukraine was, for sure they won't let Russia off the hook easily after this invasion.
Ok, at some point, sure, maybe.
Home-built doesn’t mean “all parts produced in Russia”. And it just takes a handful of parts to be included in sanctions – especially with just-in-time manufacturing – for an entire production line to grind to a halt.
There are about half a dozen SSJs and MC-21s produced every month, let's check back in a couple of months from now, and see if those lines ground to a halt or doubled their production. I'm curious myself!
And how many of them are using home built engines and not engines bought in the west?
> About 500 airplanes are leased and have to be returned within a month to the leasing companies,
Putin will make a law that returning airplanes to abroad is illegal. Foreigners have not been allowed to sell Russian shares already nearly a week. So nothing new there.
They cannot fly to most countries anyway, so the risk of getting them confiscated while landed somewhere is small.
Putin will make a law that returning airplanes to abroad is illegal. Foreigners have not been allowed to sell Russian shares already nearly a week. So nothing new there.
They cannot fly to most countries anyway, so the risk of getting them confiscated while landed somewhere is small.
Well, yes, they can keep and operate them illegally. Short term: problem solved. Long term: its even worse.
It might be immoral, but surely keeping they planes will be legal by some means, executive fiat or whatever.
Is there international treaties covering such things?
Mind, I'm from the UK our government just ignore international law when they like and only to please their own ends, not even in times of crisis, so can't see something as simple as breaking a treaty will cause any change here.
Is there international treaties covering such things?
Mind, I'm from the UK our government just ignore international law when they like and only to please their own ends, not even in times of crisis, so can't see something as simple as breaking a treaty will cause any change here.
Exactly. It'll be a slow and steady decline in terms of safety, pilot training and so on.
[deleted]
On the front page is a post about yandex where yandex says that they have equipment for a year on hand but there is a legitimate concern that as their equipment naturally breaks they will not be able to source replacements. There's no garuntee on what will be available for any up and coming company
https://www.mordorintelligence.com/industry-reports/russia-h...
By the way, the elimination of Western influence at all levels has been the goal for at least 15 years. It happend much earlier higher up.
We're back in 1961.
“We cannot negotiate with people who say what's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable."
And frankly said, if the performance of the Russian furniture industry is similar to that of the Russian military, I wouldn' buy a doorstop from them.
By the way, the elimination of Western influence at all levels has been the goal for at least 15 years. It happend much earlier higher up.
We're back in 1961.
“We cannot negotiate with people who say what's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable."
And frankly said, if the performance of the Russian furniture industry is similar to that of the Russian military, I wouldn' buy a doorstop from them.
> And frankly said, if the performance of the Russian furniture industry is similar to that of the Russian military, I wouldn' buy a doorstop from them.
Russian military doorstops are a dime a dozen right now in Ukraine.
Russian military doorstops are a dime a dozen right now in Ukraine.
Oh, my God, that 40 miles convoy. A crawling duck, but sadly no Warthogs in sight.
It's a shame.
[deleted]
Yes, it's a terrible shame that NATO is not engaging in a full on fight with a nuclear adversary.
Since I've already addressed this point further down the thread, which can't have escaped your notice, it's rather pointless trying to pin me down on this position.
I was in your back before you arrived.
But you tried nonetheless, I give you that. Brave but dead.
But you tried nonetheless, I give you that. Brave but dead.
Yes, NATO donating some training and a couple of A-10s would be an interesting move. Obviously it is never going to be that simple.
The Russians showed the 'tactical nuke' card.
So NATO won't get involved with more than a few AT Weapons here and there at max.
Lavrov said, they didn't threaten with nukes.That means they did. That creature was bred and selected over decades for such jobs.
Actually I just indulge in fantasies of burning bastards.
Lavrov said, they didn't threaten with nukes.That means they did. That creature was bred and selected over decades for such jobs.
Actually I just indulge in fantasies of burning bastards.
You are not alone in that I think there are quite a few people that would like a little bit of quiet quality time with a certain dictator.
If it were just a certain dictator, the Ides of March are just around the corner.
But, as you mentioned, it's not that simple.
Russians are in favor of Putin. And of course, the apparatus has been driving up approval ratings for him for months before this stunt. And now most Russian don't know anything from independent sources, some probably didn't even heard about that Ukraine Peace Operation. A lot of them just believe the whole narrative, because, well, it's the decadent West that says otherwise and 'they want to hold us down. They always do.'
So even if there is a fraction in the apparatus at all that would or could act, there alway looms the danger of a civil war for them.
Russians are in favor of Putin. And of course, the apparatus has been driving up approval ratings for him for months before this stunt. And now most Russian don't know anything from independent sources, some probably didn't even heard about that Ukraine Peace Operation. A lot of them just believe the whole narrative, because, well, it's the decadent West that says otherwise and 'they want to hold us down. They always do.'
So even if there is a fraction in the apparatus at all that would or could act, there alway looms the danger of a civil war for them.
Civil war in Russia is pretty much a given at some point. This can't go on forever. Though, it has gone on long enough that maybe that is based on a faulty assumption: that in the longer term the world trends to improvement. That might not be the case, we may be able to reach some local maximum and then fall back again.
Civil war? Majority supports the invasion, the rest is indifferent, and 0.1% are protesting (soon to be jailed).
Note the 'at some point': Russia can't go on like this, regardless of whatever popular support Putin has at this point in time. It's about as meaningful as the support for Kim in NK.
It's not the problem what we think they can get away with.
The problem is what they think they can can get away with.
And in what time frame.
They obviously operate in a different frame of reference.
Their military doctrine is also different from ours, apart from the obvious shortcomings at the moment.
But it doesn't matter militaryly, they don't fight us, they fight the Ukraine.
Because of their bloody nukes.
A shame Patton was right in his motivation to stop the Soviets.
That would have been before they get nukes themselves.
They have set the anchor in these negotiations between us and them. They want status quo ante 1997. They will at least get Ukraine. Perhaps Moldavia.
And they created chaos. Which always also bears opportunity.
And China will wait.
They have set the anchor in these negotiations between us and them. They want status quo ante 1997. They will at least get Ukraine. Perhaps Moldavia.
And they created chaos. Which always also bears opportunity.
And China will wait.
Watched a YouTube video and one of the people simply couldn't believe that Putin would attack Ukraine, even when shown pictures of the attacks, their line was "but they're Russian speakers like us, he wouldn't do that".
One of about 8 people seemed to genuinely support Putin (something like "he knows what he's doing, this is necessary").
Obviously just a vox pop but in general it seemed few supported the aggression and most were just afraid to talk about it.
One of about 8 people seemed to genuinely support Putin (something like "he knows what he's doing, this is necessary").
Obviously just a vox pop but in general it seemed few supported the aggression and most were just afraid to talk about it.
True. But I'm afraid there are several issues and training is not a 2 day affair even if the other issues didn't exist
https://breakingdefense.com/2022/03/no-the-us-air-force-isnt...
https://breakingdefense.com/2022/03/no-the-us-air-force-isnt...
Huh? Don’t we have some servicemen on vacation in Ukraine right now? They’re just there on holiday, sightseeing in their A10.
PUTIN: These guys were on a holiday there
THE WORLD: gasps
UK: These guys were on a holiday there
THE WORLD: claps
Or as the saying goes "Rules for thee and not for me".
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30488680
THE WORLD: gasps
UK: These guys were on a holiday there
THE WORLD: claps
Or as the saying goes "Rules for thee and not for me".
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30488680
Ah, good that you re-posted it; your [0] is too old to respond to. Here, let me fix that for you:
There, fixed that for you.
(OK, except for the "saying"; I just made that up. But, something along those lines. As is, it seems to fit both Putler's blatant immoral lies, the West's equally blatant but morally defensible ones, and your whataboutish equivalizing of the two.)
PUTIN: These guys were on a holiday there (but actually conducting a war of aggression).
THE WORLD: Gasps in righteous indignation.
UK: These guys were on a holiday there (but actually defending against a war of aggression).
THE WORLD: Claps at the brave defenders.
There, fixed that for you.
(OK, except for the "saying"; I just made that up. But, something along those lines. As is, it seems to fit both Putler's blatant immoral lies, the West's equally blatant but morally defensible ones, and your whataboutish equivalizing of the two.)
Absolutely right you are, sir.
We all have to thank the Russians to have shown the world in 2014 how to do it. And before that. And also to give us a great opportunity for Whataboutism.
Sigh, I probably still have those Bezmenov brochures from the early eighties lying around somewhere.
We all have to thank the Russians to have shown the world in 2014 how to do it. And before that. And also to give us a great opportunity for Whataboutism.
Sigh, I probably still have those Bezmenov brochures from the early eighties lying around somewhere.
It is always funny how people can legitimize anything if it is used against the people they don't like.
"Bombing civilians" is unacceptable if they are from "Europe" like Ukraine.
"Bombing civilians" is fine if they are savages from Middle East, Africa or "not-Europe", like Russia.
"Bombing civilians" is unacceptable if they are from "Europe" like Ukraine.
"Bombing civilians" is fine if they are savages from Middle East, Africa or "not-Europe", like Russia.
Wow, an early deployment of the Racism card.
Bold move, congratulation.
But then again, do you really think anybody is still reading this deep in the thread? They're already bored, no shiny tech, just endless babble.
But okay, your next move, Godwin’s law.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%E2%80%99s_law
Game over.
But then again, do you really think anybody is still reading this deep in the thread? They're already bored, no shiny tech, just endless babble.
But okay, your next move, Godwin’s law.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%E2%80%99s_law
Game over.
> still reading this deep in the thread
Yet here you are.
> your next move
But.. you invoked it yourself.
"Game over"
Yet here you are.
> your next move
But.. you invoked it yourself.
"Game over"
This. Absolutely this. And especially for the Warthog.
But, hey, there are flight simulators out there, aren't there?
But, hey, there are flight simulators out there, aren't there?
No, obviously. It's daydreaming at best.
I talked with friends in Moscow at the beginning of 2020. They said there were simply no good alternatives to IKEA. There were reasonable furniture from Belarus if one looked for things made from whole wood, but then one still may need to hire somebody to fix/adjust it due to quality control issues. Plus there were small Russian companies, but their stuff while good was expensive. Things that were produced by bigger Russian companies that were supposed to give alternative to IKEA, were really of low quality.
To be honest this sounds like a fairytale to me. IKEA has\had good things like lamps and tabletops. But the furniture has terrible quality. I'm still kind of angry at myself for buying their Stockholm cabinet. You _have_ to fix it agains the wall to stop the wiggling (that's what the manual AND their support tells me).
Unfortunately we really don't have anything that is mass-production and of good quality at the same time, but IKEA is hardly a ray of light in my opinion.
Unfortunately we really don't have anything that is mass-production and of good quality at the same time, but IKEA is hardly a ray of light in my opinion.
How would they do that though? Russian interest rates are through the roof, so even if you could borrow money to start a business you likely couldn’t make it profitable. If you had assets to begin with they better not have been in the stock market, because that has been closed since the invasion began and basically everything you own is now rated 0. If your assets were in savings, then they too have lost basically all value along with the rubbles.
Even if you somehow overcome the need for capital, how do you setup the supply chain necessary in a world where you can’t readily trade with anyone but China? Which you may not be able or doing in a month if things turn sour and China also start sanctioning.
Sure Russia has a lot of wood, but Russia doesn’t have the industrial material to transform it into furniture, and right now, Russia doesn’t have access to the high tech commodities required to build an efficient lumber industry, let alone factories to process it.
You’re right of course, this will open up for opportunities in the very long run, but it’ll be very localised opportunities that can’t take advantage of the global supply chain in a country that had an economy which was around the size of the economy of Italy before this began.
If you look at history, then you can’t really build empires in isolation. Even the current “American empire” saw a lot of its economic rise throught things like the Marshall plan, which as an example, lifted my country (Denmark) from what was basically medieval farming methods with lots and lots of manual labour to the average farmer owning tractors in less than a decade. Unless the oligarchs of Russia plan on investing basically all their national profits into building the country’s industry, then I would personally wager that these images are the last chance that a lot of Russian have to but IKEA things for a good while. It won’t stop there either, after a few years of isolation the average Russian won’t be able to buy things like coffee if the sanctions get worse.
War is hell.
Even if you somehow overcome the need for capital, how do you setup the supply chain necessary in a world where you can’t readily trade with anyone but China? Which you may not be able or doing in a month if things turn sour and China also start sanctioning.
Sure Russia has a lot of wood, but Russia doesn’t have the industrial material to transform it into furniture, and right now, Russia doesn’t have access to the high tech commodities required to build an efficient lumber industry, let alone factories to process it.
You’re right of course, this will open up for opportunities in the very long run, but it’ll be very localised opportunities that can’t take advantage of the global supply chain in a country that had an economy which was around the size of the economy of Italy before this began.
If you look at history, then you can’t really build empires in isolation. Even the current “American empire” saw a lot of its economic rise throught things like the Marshall plan, which as an example, lifted my country (Denmark) from what was basically medieval farming methods with lots and lots of manual labour to the average farmer owning tractors in less than a decade. Unless the oligarchs of Russia plan on investing basically all their national profits into building the country’s industry, then I would personally wager that these images are the last chance that a lot of Russian have to but IKEA things for a good while. It won’t stop there either, after a few years of isolation the average Russian won’t be able to buy things like coffee if the sanctions get worse.
War is hell.
Anta is doing exactly this. With major labels refusing to use Xinjiang cotton, Anta has said they have no problem with it and are building an empire based on forced labor.
Unfortunately (and I mean it) there is barely any precedent for a regime like this turning around and the economy improving. In terms of economy, it's probably going to be downhill from here, companies will enter survival mode and innovation will be minimized. I really hope I'm wrong though :(
examples: Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, ...
examples: Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, ...
It could be but they need to be primed for it already.
How did the US not selling drones to Turkey made Turkey a drone superpower? Well, Turkey already had a large engineering talent pool and related industries, therefore US not selling drones to Turkey was an opportunity.
Does Russia already have a talent base or flourishing industries for all the stuff they are being denied? I find it unlikely, it's a common problem with natural resource blessed countries destroying high skill sectors because a very few things are as profitable and risk free as digging stuff from the ground, sell them and live off from than money. Norway is being smart about it, countries like Dubai and UAE are also trying to be smart about it but AFAIK Russia is not very smart. They used to have huge talent pool of all kinds during the Soviet times but that is no longer the case. They monetised the remains of the Soviets and used the money to buy yachts, palaces and luxury estate abroad.
What is the last innovation, art or product that came out of Russia and change the world? Probably there are some but not many. They used to be the ones competing with the west neck to neck, bringing in their flavour and coming up with something ingenious.
It's very sad actually, considering what the Russian people have archived in the past.
How did the US not selling drones to Turkey made Turkey a drone superpower? Well, Turkey already had a large engineering talent pool and related industries, therefore US not selling drones to Turkey was an opportunity.
Does Russia already have a talent base or flourishing industries for all the stuff they are being denied? I find it unlikely, it's a common problem with natural resource blessed countries destroying high skill sectors because a very few things are as profitable and risk free as digging stuff from the ground, sell them and live off from than money. Norway is being smart about it, countries like Dubai and UAE are also trying to be smart about it but AFAIK Russia is not very smart. They used to have huge talent pool of all kinds during the Soviet times but that is no longer the case. They monetised the remains of the Soviets and used the money to buy yachts, palaces and luxury estate abroad.
What is the last innovation, art or product that came out of Russia and change the world? Probably there are some but not many. They used to be the ones competing with the west neck to neck, bringing in their flavour and coming up with something ingenious.
It's very sad actually, considering what the Russian people have archived in the past.
>What is the last innovation, art or product that came out of Russia and change the world?
Maybe Telegram? It has 500 million monthly active users.
Maybe Telegram? It has 500 million monthly active users.
Sure, they also have Yandex and VK and some other stuff but even if they are successful almost none of it is groundbreaking or leading whole industries ahead. If TikTok was Russian, I would have said that they significantly improved content discovery and content consumption maybe.
However, this does show that if all Meta and Google is banned, they will be fine. Is it going to be the same for other stuff though? Like the IKEA stuff? Like civil aviation?
However, this does show that if all Meta and Google is banned, they will be fine. Is it going to be the same for other stuff though? Like the IKEA stuff? Like civil aviation?
nginx was pretty Russian IIRC
Not so long ago, Russians used to have a population for being extraordinary programmers. Doesn't that still apply?
You can't program a Färgrik or the machinary that spits Färgrik into existence.
I was responding to the question:
> Does Russia already have a talent base or flourishing industries for all the stuff they are being denied? (...) They used to have huge talent pool of all kinds during the Soviet times but that is no longer the case.
That's why I brought up programming. If the legendary Russian skills are still extant in that industry, then that's one example of a pool of talent that remained intact. Sure it won't help with a furniture crisis, but programming and IT skills are the core of a modern economy, so they will help with other things.
> Does Russia already have a talent base or flourishing industries for all the stuff they are being denied? (...) They used to have huge talent pool of all kinds during the Soviet times but that is no longer the case.
That's why I brought up programming. If the legendary Russian skills are still extant in that industry, then that's one example of a pool of talent that remained intact. Sure it won't help with a furniture crisis, but programming and IT skills are the core of a modern economy, so they will help with other things.
Sure, there are great programmers in Russia. How is that relevant though?
Because programmers are smart generally and many of them are engineers. They can certainly figure out how to make furniture and repair or build simple woodworking machines and tools amongst many other endeavors.
>Because programmers are smart generally and many of them are engineers. They can certainly figure out how to make furniture and repair or build simple woodworking machines and tools amongst many other endeavors.
I'm speechless.
Actually, the most profound examples of stupidity I'm seeng lately comes from programmers and technologist who think they understand everything just because they can read high-level simplified explanation of a concept in wikipedia or some blog post.
This arrogance is deeply concerning for me, it usually comes from people with no depth in anything other than programming. Dunning–Kruger effect? Maybe.
Elon Musk is a good example for high profile version of this. Without knowledge of caves he adventured to build robot to get kids out of a flooding cave, then proceeded to attack the person who actually knew his stuff and saved the kids. Another one is again him, predicting the end of Covid in the US. Another gold from Musk is him insulting medical professionals for not pumping a drug that cures Covid, that later turned out not to cure Covid.
This is Musk but Musk-alikes dominate the programming culture. It's horrible.
I'm speechless.
Actually, the most profound examples of stupidity I'm seeng lately comes from programmers and technologist who think they understand everything just because they can read high-level simplified explanation of a concept in wikipedia or some blog post.
This arrogance is deeply concerning for me, it usually comes from people with no depth in anything other than programming. Dunning–Kruger effect? Maybe.
Elon Musk is a good example for high profile version of this. Without knowledge of caves he adventured to build robot to get kids out of a flooding cave, then proceeded to attack the person who actually knew his stuff and saved the kids. Another one is again him, predicting the end of Covid in the US. Another gold from Musk is him insulting medical professionals for not pumping a drug that cures Covid, that later turned out not to cure Covid.
This is Musk but Musk-alikes dominate the programming culture. It's horrible.
I don’t disagree that there are poor outcomes from much of the technocratic class. Also, you are correct that the ability to build basic crud apps and websites does not make you a genius or all-knowing seer of the cosmos. However, we are talking about making furniture here and repairing/building machines that have existed for over a century. Hillbilly mechanics and basic carpenters can accomplish these tasks.
Elon Musk takes risks beyond what most are willing to take and that is what separates him from the average technocrats. You don’t like that personality type, but some of us wish technocrats would reach farther than copycat social media and advertising ventures even if they fail sometimes.
Elon Musk takes risks beyond what most are willing to take and that is what separates him from the average technocrats. You don’t like that personality type, but some of us wish technocrats would reach farther than copycat social media and advertising ventures even if they fail sometimes.
Sure…but more than likely Russia is about to become thunderdome.
I don't like getting into politics, but I believe the current situation is temporary, either will end up with a major political change in Russia or with a new cold war. Whichever the case for the local economy its like hitting the reset button.
> either will end up with a major political change in Russia or with a new cold war.
Agree for the former, but not with the latter. Though scientific and military advancements by Russia were possible during the cold war, in its current state and with the new sanctions, I don't think Russia will be able to cope with the rest of the world.
IMHO it's more like there will be either a regime change or a new North Korea.
Agree for the former, but not with the latter. Though scientific and military advancements by Russia were possible during the cold war, in its current state and with the new sanctions, I don't think Russia will be able to cope with the rest of the world.
IMHO it's more like there will be either a regime change or a new North Korea.
Putin is 69 in a country where average age at death is 73.
So the most likely scenario is that the status quo remains until he passes away. At which point there would be an opportunity for a clean reset in relations.
So the most likely scenario is that the status quo remains until he passes away. At which point there would be an opportunity for a clean reset in relations.
I was born in aoviet union and live in baltics. Believe me - there is whole kgb system. Once putin is dead - there will be someone similar.
Gorbachev is 91 and still alive.
Yeah I think it's a false statistics lens people look through.
Because a lot of death occurs young, brining the average down. But if you survive into adult hood you have good shot at living longer.
Plus he has way more resources than the average Russian.
Because a lot of death occurs young, brining the average down. But if you survive into adult hood you have good shot at living longer.
Plus he has way more resources than the average Russian.
Jimmy Carter is 97. Kissinger is 98. All three won Nobel Peace Prizes. Is that the key to longevity? Because Putin will not be joining that club.
That doesn't mean he has a 50% chance of dying in 4 years.
That avg expectancy of 73 includes all the people that die young, etc.
"Actuarial tables" is the term you're looking for, if you're curious how long a particular person at a particular age might live.
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html
In the US a person who is currently 69 years old will live, on average, for another 17.53 years.
In Russia the average expectancy is a little shorter, but also Putin is not an average person. By all accounts he seems pretty healthy, and obviously he has unlimited access to the best healthcare money can buy.
That avg expectancy of 73 includes all the people that die young, etc.
"Actuarial tables" is the term you're looking for, if you're curious how long a particular person at a particular age might live.
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html
In the US a person who is currently 69 years old will live, on average, for another 17.53 years.
In Russia the average expectancy is a little shorter, but also Putin is not an average person. By all accounts he seems pretty healthy, and obviously he has unlimited access to the best healthcare money can buy.
He is a man so it is 15.x years from 69 not 17.x years. But he is a short man which in some studies tends to make up a lot of the difference. Short people live longer.
> At which point there would be an opportunity for a clean reset in relations.
No. All major industries are breaking up contracts with the Russians. SWIFT took a century to build. None of that is coming back. Russia can never trust Europe again, and no country can trust Cloud products anymore, seeing how many Russian people are getting HTTP 410 from Cloud products.
No. All major industries are breaking up contracts with the Russians. SWIFT took a century to build. None of that is coming back. Russia can never trust Europe again, and no country can trust Cloud products anymore, seeing how many Russian people are getting HTTP 410 from Cloud products.
Putin can never trust Europe again. A new democratic government could.
Putin is 69 in a country where average age at death is 73.
Having a team of private doctors, access to the best hospitals, access to Western medicine, even being able to leave Russia for medical care will probably mean he lives longer than average.
Having a team of private doctors, access to the best hospitals, access to Western medicine, even being able to leave Russia for medical care will probably mean he lives longer than average.
I don’t believe the situation is temporary. All major industries are cutting ties with Russia. SWIFT took 100 years to create, even if we allow it back, Russia won’t trust us, ever.
It looks to me like our European leaders are escalating in a specific way that ensures we are locked in a feud with Russia for decades to come, in such a way that we can’t renew relationships even if Putin dies and if they pay war damages (which they won’t be able to pay because of their damaged economy - Ow, sweet irony of 1928…).
I wonder whether we, European people, have an interest into making a 50-years war with Russia, like our leaders are deciding.
Or, in other words, where can I emigrate, from France.
It looks to me like our European leaders are escalating in a specific way that ensures we are locked in a feud with Russia for decades to come, in such a way that we can’t renew relationships even if Putin dies and if they pay war damages (which they won’t be able to pay because of their damaged economy - Ow, sweet irony of 1928…).
I wonder whether we, European people, have an interest into making a 50-years war with Russia, like our leaders are deciding.
Or, in other words, where can I emigrate, from France.
European leaders are largely acting out of public opinion being against Russia
I think you're in the minority if you're against sanctions
Russia poked and prodded NATO for years (Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea) and watched the European powers stand idly by with maybe some words and small sanctions
This caused them to miscalculate and push too far. But the escalation is Russia's fault, nobody made them invade anybody
I think you're in the minority if you're against sanctions
Russia poked and prodded NATO for years (Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea) and watched the European powers stand idly by with maybe some words and small sanctions
This caused them to miscalculate and push too far. But the escalation is Russia's fault, nobody made them invade anybody
Go find some thriving furniture brands in North Korea. Nobody will care about the good furniture while the biggest problem is how to buy food.
An Mango, H&M and many other.
They say that foreign companies operating in Russia were required by the Putin's government to change their euros for rubles in three days if they want to stand open. Closing is the logical choice.
They say that foreign companies operating in Russia were required by the Putin's government to change their euros for rubles in three days if they want to stand open. Closing is the logical choice.
So all the companies collectively shrugged their shoulders and said “Ok, bye.”
I really don’t know what he was going for here.
I really don’t know what he was going for here.
Well, IKEA leaving is not a big issue - making furniture is easy and doesn't require high-tech. Thus, in one year or two nobody will even remember them. The industries that require technology, like electronics, biotechnology, healthcare - those will be permanently crippled, maybe completely eliminated.
Well, IKEA leaving is not a big issue - making furniture is easy and doesn't require high-tech.
Firstly, IKEA sells a lot more than furniture. You might be able to make a table at home, but that's one of the simplest things IKEA sells. Making a bowl, or a drinking glass, or a clock is significantly harder. Most people don't have the skills or the equipment.
Secondly, IKEA don't simply sell furniture. They sell furniture at scale. Making a table is pretty trivial, but making 25,000 tables is a lot harder. That requires a robust supply chain, logging companies, wood mills, furniture factories, machines to do the work, even if you're going back to the way it was done 50 years ago rather than the massively computerized way IKEA does it. It isn't really possible in a modern global economy if your local currency has collapsed.
And then you have the problem that people are used to IKEA stuff being the minimum acceptable level of quality. People buy it because it's cheap, it looks OK, and it lasts a few years. So now not only do you need to make 25,000 tables, but they need to be at least as good as what people could buy before. Otherwise they definitely will remember, and they won't be very happy about it.
Firstly, IKEA sells a lot more than furniture. You might be able to make a table at home, but that's one of the simplest things IKEA sells. Making a bowl, or a drinking glass, or a clock is significantly harder. Most people don't have the skills or the equipment.
Secondly, IKEA don't simply sell furniture. They sell furniture at scale. Making a table is pretty trivial, but making 25,000 tables is a lot harder. That requires a robust supply chain, logging companies, wood mills, furniture factories, machines to do the work, even if you're going back to the way it was done 50 years ago rather than the massively computerized way IKEA does it. It isn't really possible in a modern global economy if your local currency has collapsed.
And then you have the problem that people are used to IKEA stuff being the minimum acceptable level of quality. People buy it because it's cheap, it looks OK, and it lasts a few years. So now not only do you need to make 25,000 tables, but they need to be at least as good as what people could buy before. Otherwise they definitely will remember, and they won't be very happy about it.
IKEA is way higher than the minimum level of quality. Their range goes from medium-low to medium. You can find far worse furniture than ikea (often more expensive)
I think you misread:
> And then you have the problem that people are used to IKEA stuff being the minimum acceptable level of quality.
People see the IKEA level -- whatever that is -- as the minimum acceptable level. Anything worse than IKEA is not worth considering.
> And then you have the problem that people are used to IKEA stuff being the minimum acceptable level of quality.
People see the IKEA level -- whatever that is -- as the minimum acceptable level. Anything worse than IKEA is not worth considering.
Do they though? There are lots of lower quality stores out there thriving
I’d say IKEA serves as the benchmark of value for money.
I’d say IKEA serves as the benchmark of value for money.
You'd be surprised. Having 'Western' furniture, clothing and vehicles in the Eastern European countries was a requirement to be seen as successful in life. Of course this is nonsense but a lot of people bought into it and it will take a long time to let go of that. But: whatever Ikea sold they sold and it will likely continue to work for a long time. Vehicles are going to be breaking down without a steady source of spares you'll see cannibalization of the worst of the rolling ones before the year is out.
Not to mention Windows updates.
Never even thought of that, but good point.
Russian business would be crippled overnight, and probably plenty of lower government too.
Russian business would be crippled overnight, and probably plenty of lower government too.
Perhaps Russia can get electronics, biotechnology, and healthcare supplies where the US gets their's: China.
Are Russia and China on good terms these days? Does Russia have anything to trade with China for yuan so they can buy those Chinese goods?
I guess we'll find out. Or maybe the US tries to sanction China for freely trading with those evil Russians? Interesting times ahead…
Are Russia and China on good terms these days? Does Russia have anything to trade with China for yuan so they can buy those Chinese goods?
I guess we'll find out. Or maybe the US tries to sanction China for freely trading with those evil Russians? Interesting times ahead…
China produces a lot of interesting stuff! India, by the way, too. They are big trade partner of Moscow. China gladly buys a lot of Russian oil and natural gas, for instance.
But China still can't produce certain high-end things. Say, a high-end server-class CPU is sort of problematic, event though ARM architecture allows to produce capable server CPUs. A powerful enough GPU is even harder to come by. I did not hear about high-capacity Chinese HDDs either. I suppose a lot of industries have such high-end goods that only 2-3 "Western" companies figured out how to produce. The embargo will hit hard in areas where such goods make a difference.
I only hope that the embargo will be lifted soon, because the current regime in Russia seems unsustainable.
But China still can't produce certain high-end things. Say, a high-end server-class CPU is sort of problematic, event though ARM architecture allows to produce capable server CPUs. A powerful enough GPU is even harder to come by. I did not hear about high-capacity Chinese HDDs either. I suppose a lot of industries have such high-end goods that only 2-3 "Western" companies figured out how to produce. The embargo will hit hard in areas where such goods make a difference.
I only hope that the embargo will be lifted soon, because the current regime in Russia seems unsustainable.
True, but China buys all of those "high-end things" in enormous quantities already. Can't they just resell them to Russia, if Russians (or anyone else) want to buy them?
Without sanctioning China, I really don't see how the US and her allies can prevent most "normal" goods from making their way (eventually) to Russia. Hell, even IKEA is in China.
Without sanctioning China, I really don't see how the US and her allies can prevent most "normal" goods from making their way (eventually) to Russia. Hell, even IKEA is in China.
Yes, consumers will get resold stuff from other markets but b2b it is sheer pain as now you probably need credit and in a foreign currency, and you may be rolling the quality and service dice on unauthorized resellers.
Not sure yet if this is shaping up to be another round of wild 90s or Stalinist times in Russia. It's kind of looking like a bizarre mix of both with political incarcerations back in play and government shutting down press. To piss away 2 decades of progress in 1 week is pretty unbelievable. Hard to believe that Putin did not see this coming...
Reading all these comments on every side (US, UA, RU, etc.) I mostly see the same - people discuss anything except key questions: why did US sanction the military action (what makes them)? Why did Russian Federation changed its course of actions so radically in 2017? Why did RU change its coat of arms on money? Did the SU really cease to exist? What was considered "Russia" during last 100-500 years (and what US)? It's one of a few "countries" that influence the whole world and those processes didn't start a decade or a hundred years ago. And current conflict is a publicly visible link in the long and entangled chain of geopolitical moves. There are great analytics in both US/RU who dug deep to the roots of WW2 and many other wars who are being equally hated by both US and RU governments/deep state. And I sincerely hope there'll be more understanding people. We just need to seriously catch up. Wars are made to cut human population, divide and disperse people. Please don't get dragged into that. I have friends from all around the world, and I WANT to have friends from all around the world, and I will.
(sorry, I'm not in a position to answer those questions directly, I just want people of all nations to think globally, regardless of pen-drawn borders, otherwise, one by one...)
I got lost in your word soup. Messy writing often implies messy thinking. Beware conspiracy theories. Yes, there's almost always more going on than you see in the news.
Russia's strategy has stayed remarkably true to The Foundations of Geopolitics, a 25-year old book. One of it's core principles is dividing the US from Europe. Nato is a clear threat to that.
>Ukraine should be annexed by Russia . . . Ukraine should not be allowed to remain independent, unless it is cordon sanitaire, which would be inadmissible.
>The United Kingdom . . . should be cut off from Europe.
>France should be encouraged to form a bloc with Germany
>The book stresses the "continental Russian–Islamic alliance"
>Georgia should be dismembered. . . Georgia's independent policies are unacceptable.
>Russia needs to create "geopolitical shocks" within Turkey.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
Russia's strategy has stayed remarkably true to The Foundations of Geopolitics, a 25-year old book. One of it's core principles is dividing the US from Europe. Nato is a clear threat to that.
>Ukraine should be annexed by Russia . . . Ukraine should not be allowed to remain independent, unless it is cordon sanitaire, which would be inadmissible.
>The United Kingdom . . . should be cut off from Europe.
>France should be encouraged to form a bloc with Germany
>The book stresses the "continental Russian–Islamic alliance"
>Georgia should be dismembered. . . Georgia's independent policies are unacceptable.
>Russia needs to create "geopolitical shocks" within Turkey.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
It's actually not the last day but a temporary suspension. Russian market is quite large and attractive to likes of IKEA and they will try to return when the hype is over. But some would be displaced by that time by the other companies. We've seen this in 2014-2015.
Seems a bit disingenuous to run adverts asking for contributions like:
'Делаем честную журналистику вместе с вами'
Tell us you need help, but don't make claims that you clearly aren't fulfilling.
'Делаем честную журналистику вместе с вами'
Tell us you need help, but don't make claims that you clearly aren't fulfilling.
Seems like more people are rushing to IKEA than to protest.
I was wondering, how much of a percentage of visitors knows about the war and is against it?
A very high percentage. You are in Moscow and the customers have income well over Russian median. They speak foreign languages.
There are over 100 millions over Russians that live in a very different world, for those the percentage will be different.
There are over 100 millions over Russians that live in a very different world, for those the percentage will be different.
On the other hand, does the political opinion of anyone in Russia actually matter outside of Moscow?
Massively. Those people are majority Putin appeals to to win elections.
Life just became extremely boring for Russians.
Quite the opposite, life became too exciting, in a bad way. Mr.
Putin: invade and trash one country, get the second one trashed for free.
It must be a bit shocking to lose access to basically every service that requires interacting with a Western economy while your country expects you to go about as usual. If you live in North Korea chances are you don't know any better. But Russians had access to the same things we do until a few days ago.
You ever get the feeling people will finally say enough is enough?
What I'm curious about all the sanctions is what if Russia changes? Say Putin quits or is killed and the replacement withdraws from Ukraine. Are we back on again?
The sanctions will likely ease. Back to normal? The reason Europe reacted is not so much in defense of the Ukrainian democracy (though there is also that), but because Russia became a direct threat to European states (Baltic states, Poland, Czech Republic, etc), and therefore had to be stopped in Ukraine. It may take a while before Russia is not deemed a threat anymore.
It might take many years until companies return. Nobody wants to risk getting bitten twice.
I'm sure Ukraine would demand reparations, as well as getting Crimea back.
If Russia complied, and agreed to some international oversight (for example regarding their nuclear arsenal), I'm sure the rest of the world would happily take up trade again. Living in Germany, I see many people are quite upset about the high gas prices, and forgiving a repentant country AND profiting from trade would look very good for the government.
If Russia complied, and agreed to some international oversight (for example regarding their nuclear arsenal), I'm sure the rest of the world would happily take up trade again. Living in Germany, I see many people are quite upset about the high gas prices, and forgiving a repentant country AND profiting from trade would look very good for the government.
For me the line to cross would be that Russia gives up their nuclear arms. They have shown that they are willing to use these for extortion rather than as a last means of defense, which I think should be enough to cause them to have to give these up.
Why would they ever give them up? Unless they get so thoroughly routed in a war that they have no choice, it just won't happen because it is the end of sovereignty.
I feel like Russia breaking up into smaller states and then each state joining the eu on a long timescale once they meet various civic legal and economic targets is the kind of boring solution that will be fought for years and then happen once all other options have been exhausted. This war is really about Ukraine (even the Russian speaking parts, the anti-Nato, Anti-EU people in Ukraine) thinking they'd rather be part of the EU once they get their civic society sorted than immediately be a corrupt part of Russia.
You may well be on to something here: that Russia is doing this as a warning to other states still under its control that if they flirt with the EU they will get turned into rubble. That would at least make some sense.
I thought this was the generally accepted rationale? What other explanations are there?
Another theory being thrown around is that Putin also wants to reduce Russia's western defensive line by reducing it down to 600 km versus the 2000+ km it currently has after the break up of the Soviet Union. By taking non-nato nations on the European side, its back to the original line before the pre-soviet collapse.
That is just the same theory expressed in a different way. He cant control the people of Ukraine by giving then a decent life as a Russian satelite, so he's invading them to force a pro-Russian government on them.
That Putin was given faulty intelligence that Ukraine would roll over and welcome the invasion because of their urge to return to the Russian fold.
I don't think I've seen that take and you may be mixing up what he says with what he thinks, always confusing when talking about blatant liars.
I've seen people saying that he thought he could force them to install a pro-russian regime (or further split the country) with shock and awe and merely the threat of great violence and underestimated the will and ability to resist, and overestimated his ability to project power, but not that he's totally disconnected from the reality of public opinion in Ukraine.
The whole point, whether the invasion worked really well or not, is that he needs to overule their democratic opinion by force. He seems to grasp that or nothing he's doing makes any sense.
I've seen people saying that he thought he could force them to install a pro-russian regime (or further split the country) with shock and awe and merely the threat of great violence and underestimated the will and ability to resist, and overestimated his ability to project power, but not that he's totally disconnected from the reality of public opinion in Ukraine.
The whole point, whether the invasion worked really well or not, is that he needs to overule their democratic opinion by force. He seems to grasp that or nothing he's doing makes any sense.
What Putin thinks only Putin knows, everybody else is reading the tea leaves.
Yes, but when people like Meirschiemer predicted this a decade ago, and blame the US and Ukraine for it because this is the obvious response to Ukraine trying to leave the Russian sphere of influence and other people who blame Putin also predicted it a decade ago for basically the same reasons, and also correctly predicted it last month when the "don't blame Putin" side was wrong, it seems theres a general consensus on what's happening even if who to 'blame' is apparently up for debate.
Yes, we know, whatever Putin does is also the fault of the West. Clearly, Europe and the USA are responsible for Russia invading Ukraine. /s
'Look at what you made him do'...
> Yes, but when people like Meirschiemer predicted this a decade ago
Seriously: I'm getting a a bit tired of people who can't even spell "Mearsheimer" are trotting him out at every opportunity to make it clear that he predicted all this and more, and that therefore 'the West is at fault here'.
So what? Seeing Ukraine and the Baltics as the obvious potential flashpoints in Europe does not require any degree of genius. The question that you forgot to ask was: was it inevitable or not? And if it was then whatever the response the West made was irrelevant, dictators do as they do.
I predict that Russia will at some point attempt to take over the Suwalki gap. When I'm proven right that won't amount to a thing, it is as logical as the sun coming up tomorrow morning.
'Look at what you made him do'...
> Yes, but when people like Meirschiemer predicted this a decade ago
Seriously: I'm getting a a bit tired of people who can't even spell "Mearsheimer" are trotting him out at every opportunity to make it clear that he predicted all this and more, and that therefore 'the West is at fault here'.
So what? Seeing Ukraine and the Baltics as the obvious potential flashpoints in Europe does not require any degree of genius. The question that you forgot to ask was: was it inevitable or not? And if it was then whatever the response the West made was irrelevant, dictators do as they do.
I predict that Russia will at some point attempt to take over the Suwalki gap. When I'm proven right that won't amount to a thing, it is as logical as the sun coming up tomorrow morning.
I'm not sure you read to the end of my comment.
As far as I'm aware, all sides think this is happening for the same reason, they only disagree about whose fault it is.
You raised the possibility that Putin invaded accidentally because someone told him Ukraine wanted to be invaded and he believed them, I don't think that adds up and if anyone is actually saying that it's more likely Russian propaganda than a serious attempt to understand Putin's motives.
I'd heard the Russian conscripts sent in to kill and be killed in Ukraine had been told that was what was going to happen, but not sure how far up the chain the lie is supposed to have started, and how many actually believed it.
As far as I'm aware, all sides think this is happening for the same reason, they only disagree about whose fault it is.
You raised the possibility that Putin invaded accidentally because someone told him Ukraine wanted to be invaded and he believed them, I don't think that adds up and if anyone is actually saying that it's more likely Russian propaganda than a serious attempt to understand Putin's motives.
I'd heard the Russian conscripts sent in to kill and be killed in Ukraine had been told that was what was going to happen, but not sure how far up the chain the lie is supposed to have started, and how many actually believed it.
It's incredulous that he would believe that after Ukraine flirting with joining NATO and receiving a lot of defense funding from the west.
By all information available the Russians did not believe that their campaign would last longer than 3 days. Lots of little bits of evidence, starting with the amount of fuel and food given to the invaders to the stories those told to their family when after capture Ukrainians allowed them to communicate with their parents to the leaked news article that got withdrawn.
Ukraine is not homogenous. Check the results of the election, I'm sure the East of the country (and by Moldova) wouldn't mind being part of Russia, the rest not so much.
https://euromaidanpress.com/2019/04/09/first-round-of-ukrain...
https://euromaidanpress.com/2019/04/09/first-round-of-ukrain...
What you are sure of doesn't really matter though, does it?
Elections in occupied territory, especially when there are substantial doubts about the fairness of those elections in those territories (see the article you linked) make it hard to know what is really going on there. And regardless, Russia has already invaded on the pretext that Ukrainians had launched attacks on those regions (which turned out to be staged) so I think we're a bit past that point now.
Furthermore, there is plenty of evidence that the citizens of those regions are far, far from happy with the Russian invasion.
Ukraine may not be homogenous, but it became a lot more united a week ago.
Elections in occupied territory, especially when there are substantial doubts about the fairness of those elections in those territories (see the article you linked) make it hard to know what is really going on there. And regardless, Russia has already invaded on the pretext that Ukrainians had launched attacks on those regions (which turned out to be staged) so I think we're a bit past that point now.
Furthermore, there is plenty of evidence that the citizens of those regions are far, far from happy with the Russian invasion.
Ukraine may not be homogenous, but it became a lot more united a week ago.
Its virtually impossible to know exactly what is going on, esp in a war and like you said people's views change. The East really has been a mess for the last deacde. https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/5...
It's going to get a lot messier.
I'd favour putting the eastern Russia parts under the umbrella of China if they weren't happy to go buddy buddy with Putin.
So I dunno, give it to Japan. Or Korea.
Gift Koningsberg to Ukraine.
So I dunno, give it to Japan. Or Korea.
Gift Koningsberg to Ukraine.
There are plenty of sovereign countries that do not have nuclear weapons. It would be the end of the imperialist ambitions.
Russia will never give up nuclear arms. Just look how that worked out for Ukraine (...)
Also, Russia is too damn big and unpopulated, it would be almost impossible to defend it all without nuclear deterrence. Much like Canada, in that regard.
Also, Russia is too damn big and unpopulated, it would be almost impossible to defend it all without nuclear deterrence. Much like Canada, in that regard.
Yes, well depending on the new regime. But that seems extremely unlikely? Let's say Putin announces victory and that he is stepping back. Would anyone trust he is not pulling the strings anymore?
Interesting thought on how Putin might get out of this. But it should be quite visible, whether this is just an act (like exchanging office with Medvedjev some years back) or a real government change.
Wondering out loud:
Maybe a lot of these international brands exiting is more useful than some of the other sanctions. It hits the more wealthy, who lose a sense of status and feel left out of the world. That can't be good for Putin who is seeking glory.
Maybe a lot of these international brands exiting is more useful than some of the other sanctions. It hits the more wealthy, who lose a sense of status and feel left out of the world. That can't be good for Putin who is seeking glory.
The exit of the brands are directly due to the sanctions.
I'm sure the PR hit they'd take from continuing to do business is a factor, but I don't think this many large int'l companies would have reacted this quickly to just PR hits.
All international companies really, really, really, really like to get paid for the goods and services they provide. After sanctions that becomes difficult to impossible to do in Russia.
I think their thought process is:
Best case scenario they get paid in rubles which have gone down in value and are likely to go down further or at the very least be very volatile.
Worst case scenario they get $0 USD for their goods and services as they can't get the money out... and they are slapped with further sanctions.
I'm sure the PR hit they'd take from continuing to do business is a factor, but I don't think this many large int'l companies would have reacted this quickly to just PR hits.
All international companies really, really, really, really like to get paid for the goods and services they provide. After sanctions that becomes difficult to impossible to do in Russia.
I think their thought process is:
Best case scenario they get paid in rubles which have gone down in value and are likely to go down further or at the very least be very volatile.
Worst case scenario they get $0 USD for their goods and services as they can't get the money out... and they are slapped with further sanctions.
The Cold War ended when McDonald’s went up in red square. Now what?
I went to that McDonalds about 3 months after it opened, it was a well planned family outings. It still is one of my favorite stories that I tell. The line was about an hour long. Once you got within 15 minutes of the doors, there were helpers who helped people who have never been with explanations of what to expect and how to order, and helped one plan an order. I got in and ordered a hamburger and Coke, and I remember being right next to a tall black guy which was still quite exotic there who was also ordering something. Our orders must have gotten crossed because I got cheesburger and clear Coke, which I was really surprised about and I now know was Sprite (and I actually like it more than Coke because of that first taste, even though I don't drink any). The meal was served with real metal cutlery and there were even plates involved that you could put your meal on, and was quite good. The government's allowing McDonalds to open was apparently stipulated on them sourcing their food locally, so the meat was actually meat, and tomatoes on the cheeseburger actually were tasting like something. We took the box that the hamburgers came from home to reuse, it was a sturdy paper box, but the cutlery you had to return. Definitely the best tasting McDonalds meal I ever had. The USA experience when I landed here in 1995 was just completely from another planet.
I (an American teen) also ate there in April 1990, with partially overlapping observations. The food was higher quality than anything else I ate during a week in Moscow, but it struck me as pretty standard McDonald's fare. As for the line, it was very long, but moved in fast spurts. Customers were admitted in waves and it was the most efficient retail orchestration I'd ever seen. There was some magical blend of Soviet queuing efficiency and fast food efficiency going on that left a deep impression.
Thanks for sharing your experience! I really enjoyed reading it. Hope you like it here despite our problems and have a great weekend !
How is Russia losing by having one less importer? By the way, I still see ads of McDonald's, KFC, and M&Ms on Russian TV. I think this would actually improve Russia's economy. And the TV is actually constantly reporting on the war. I bought an online subscription just so that I can see the Russian state's points. By US censoring Russia, they made it fair so that Russia censors back in response, i.e. hurting the Russians in Russia to hypothetically hurt Russians outside of Russia - it was the typicall knee-jerk and "mee too" move that does nothing positive at the end.
I admire that Russians seems to be able to accept their fate and hope for a better future. I'm afraid this same scenario in a large American city would be pandemonium.
They have not accepted their fate, at all. They just have no easy way to cheat that fate without getting arrested or imprisoned.
until the LEOs don't get paid.
Then, what ducks do they give? [thank you, spellchecker].
it may turn out to be the Paycheck Revolution (assuming rubles are worth anything within the borders in two weeks).
Then, what ducks do they give? [thank you, spellchecker].
it may turn out to be the Paycheck Revolution (assuming rubles are worth anything within the borders in two weeks).
You mean hope for a better furniture, I suppose.
Svoka(3)
What's happening in Ukraine is a tragedy, but what's happening in Russia as a result of sanctions is quite tragic in itself.
Currency is in free fall, hundreds of companies closed shops and offices, many will lose their jobs, etc.
This will hit marriages and relationships. Men become depressed and paralyzed when they lose their incomes. So just like in the 90s, the economic collapse will hit women of Russia hard.
The smartest and most beautiful women - aka the ones used to live in abundance who got all the attention, etc will try to leave the country. 'Russian' is now quite a bad word for anyone in Europe, so women will have a hard time finding and maintaining European men (of course any men will take a beautiful woman for sex, but providing for her long term is another thing).
They say war is men protecting their women and children from the invading men. But in this situation there will be Russian women who leave their men for foreign men.
As much as I disagree with Russia's actions and even if the majority of Russians support the war (are afraid of the criminals running the country), I still feel sad for what these families are about to experience this year.