Oracle Calls Out Autonomy CEO(oracle.com)
oracle.com
Oracle Calls Out Autonomy CEO
http://oracle.com/PleaseBuyAutonomy
64 comments
I thought the fact the meeting took place on April 1st was entertaining. Maybe Hurd missed the joke?
Yes. It does give Autonomy an easy out: "Sure Oracle, we did pitch selling ourselves to you - on the morning of April 1st! Didn't you get the joke?!?! Joke aside, the meeting was indeed as we described in our first response."
Either that, or the two companies are actually having a joke at our (tech industry watchers) expense.
Either that, or the two companies are actually having a joke at our (tech industry watchers) expense.
If Autonomy's CEO said it was an April Fools joke, then HP and himself would not look very good in front of Wall Street or stock holders. There might actually be SEC complications also.
I forget where, but I once read an article suggesting that one of the big problems Microsoft has faced in the past 10 years is that, after the DoJ suit and the ruling of it as an abusive monopoly by Judge Jackson, they missed out on a lot of good new developers simply because they didn't want to work for that sort of company.
I don't think my opinions of Larry Ellison had been high for some time, but recent actions and publishing this sort of press release hardly raises them. Perhaps this will be the final downfall of Oracle; that their reputation in the tech community so precedes them that they run out of willing labour and / or partners?
I don't think my opinions of Larry Ellison had been high for some time, but recent actions and publishing this sort of press release hardly raises them. Perhaps this will be the final downfall of Oracle; that their reputation in the tech community so precedes them that they run out of willing labour and / or partners?
While I agree with your general assessment I disagree with your conclusion.
See, Oracle is not (and never was) a technology company. They are a huge marketing and sales organisation that happens to dabble in technology products.
The carnage of Sun top engineers after the takeover should tell us something.
That said, I think it's a dumb, childish and immature move.
2 Minutes of LOL and gufaw! As a believer in kharma (in the metaphorical sense) I think that will come back and bite.Messrs. Hurd and Ellison.
See, Oracle is not (and never was) a technology company. They are a huge marketing and sales organisation that happens to dabble in technology products.
The carnage of Sun top engineers after the takeover should tell us something.
That said, I think it's a dumb, childish and immature move.
2 Minutes of LOL and gufaw! As a believer in kharma (in the metaphorical sense) I think that will come back and bite.Messrs. Hurd and Ellison.
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Do you really think Larry cares about what some uppity yankee hipster thinks about his company? These days, a lot (most?) of Oracle software is built in India, Eastern Europe, etc. Developers in those countries don't care about this sort of things, they care about the cold hard cash Oracle have in their coffers, which they get by selling products over geeks' heads (i.e. to their bosses' boss).
Wage inflation in developing countries is much more of a problem for Larry than "boardroom etiquette".
Wage inflation in developing countries is much more of a problem for Larry than "boardroom etiquette".
yankee?
Yes, as a Brit I was quite surprised about that ;-)
As for the other side, there's not just the issue of who builds for them but who builds with them. If the industry perception of Oracle becomes establised that they're awkward, litigious and have an attitude problem, who's going to buy the licenses and build products against their platform?
As for the other side, there's not just the issue of who builds for them but who builds with them. If the industry perception of Oracle becomes establised that they're awkward, litigious and have an attitude problem, who's going to buy the licenses and build products against their platform?
[ I'm sure in Larry's eyes "uppity yankee hipsters" and "uppity brit hipsters" are equivalent ;) ]
I don't think they have a reputation for being awkward with their own customers/partners/etc; they're unashamedly merciless with competitors, and this is well known. In the enterprise sector the two categories often overlap, but then again in those circles being a shark is actually considered a good thing anyway.
At the moment their target is squarely HP, like SAP before them, and this is what it means. It's actually mildly amusing, if you've followed the whole saga with Apotheker living on a plane etc.
I don't think they have a reputation for being awkward with their own customers/partners/etc; they're unashamedly merciless with competitors, and this is well known. In the enterprise sector the two categories often overlap, but then again in those circles being a shark is actually considered a good thing anyway.
At the moment their target is squarely HP, like SAP before them, and this is what it means. It's actually mildly amusing, if you've followed the whole saga with Apotheker living on a plane etc.
Was it not Oracle who sued an alternative support provider out of existence on very spurious grounds? That's hardly a customer-friendly action; I can't imagine the support organisation's customers were very well disposed to Oracle after this.
I'm sure they are targeting (who they think are) their competitors. I see and hear good things about their technology. I don't doubt the management culture of some organisations would count it as to their credit that they act 'forcefully'.
But still, there surely has to come a tipping point beyond which aggressive nastiness and cockiness works against, not for them. It's not relevant for me on several grounds but this is one more black mark against Oracle's culture for me that would discourage me from working with them and make me wonder what it'd take for them to do something similar to me.
I'm sure they are targeting (who they think are) their competitors. I see and hear good things about their technology. I don't doubt the management culture of some organisations would count it as to their credit that they act 'forcefully'.
But still, there surely has to come a tipping point beyond which aggressive nastiness and cockiness works against, not for them. It's not relevant for me on several grounds but this is one more black mark against Oracle's culture for me that would discourage me from working with them and make me wonder what it'd take for them to do something similar to me.
Support is where Oracle makes the real money, so they're very aggressive there, but I think you're referring to the TomorrowNow case. They were bought by SAP to basically snatch Oracle customers, and "it looks like that TomorrowNow was probably cheating like mad. Instead of going to Oracle's support site and downloading only the patches and bug fixes its customers were entitled to, it downloaded all the Oracle software it could get its hands on. Oracle says TomorrowNow had a whole bank of servers skimming its computers automatically for Oracle software." (see http://www.computerworlduk.com/in-depth/it-business/3246680/... )
The "enterprise" world is full of sharks, Oracle is just one of many.
The "enterprise" world is full of sharks, Oracle is just one of many.
It's slang for a person from the US. Wikipedia has a page on it if you're interested. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee
To foreigners, a Yankee is an American.
To Americans, a Yankee is a Northerner.
To Northerners, a Yankee is an Easterner.
To Easterners, a Yankee is a New Englander.
To New Englanders, a Yankee is a Vermonter.
And in Vermont, a Yankee is somebody who eats pie for breakfast.
Here in Texas, it means someone from the Northern US. It sounds really funny in that context. :)
This is incredibly juvenile and unprofessional. Start acting like grownups.
Ellison knows it's juvenile and unprofessional and does not care. That is his schtick.
Yes, he is known for this kind of thing. Works for him apparently and has been for many years. It's not like he is able to 'fail' in a lot of senses of the word anymore; he is rich beyond believe, he has great business sense, he is a winner on a number of levels. Why would he care about anything, especially anything said in the tech community?
Agreed.
This is a really weird press release for Oracle to serve from their flagship website. Even the Notch v Bethesda back & forth was orders of magnitude more civil…
For one, Notch vs Bethesda operated at several fewer orders of magnitude.
Secondly, Notch is playfully avoiding a lawsuit. Oracle is settling a score.
Secondly, Notch is playfully avoiding a lawsuit. Oracle is settling a score.
I for one would pay double to witness an Ellison vs. Lynch q3a showdown.
This! We'll watch it on Chill.com and serve e-popcorn
Possible scenario for Oracle actions:
A) ridicule HP into dropping Autonomy bid
B) because of A the stock price of HP drops significantly
C) Oracle buys HP
D) Mark Hurd gets his HP executive washroom key back.
A) ridicule HP into dropping Autonomy bid
B) because of A the stock price of HP drops significantly
C) Oracle buys HP
D) Mark Hurd gets his HP executive washroom key back.
What about this? (not a joke)
A) ridicule HP into dropping Autonomy bid
B) because of A, the stock price of Autonomy crashes
C) Oracle buys Autonomy
D) Mike Lynch gets fired
E) HP keeps PSG in house and backs off Enterprise software and services.
> A) ridicule HP into dropping Autonomy bid
I don't think Oracle would do anything to benefit HP
I don't think Oracle would do anything to benefit HP
The most interesting thing about this story is just how poor that Powerpoint presentation is.
It's professionally put together, but if I someone tried to use these as slides during a presentation I'd want to tear my eyes out.
It's professionally put together, but if I someone tried to use these as slides during a presentation I'd want to tear my eyes out.
It's classic consulting/finance style, typically meant to be read as a document (a "leave behind") rather than presented on a screen.
This does not stop consultants from presenting such decks. And yes, those presentations will make you want to tear your eyes out.
This does not stop consultants from presenting such decks. And yes, those presentations will make you want to tear your eyes out.
Other HN discussion on the same topic : http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3051366
If only Mr. Lynch had just come out and said, "yes, we also went to Oracle to see if they might be interested". Then he would have had much less trouble =)
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Why does Oracle care so much about this? Autonomy shopped themselves around and Oracle turned them down. Now Oracle wants to hurt Autonomy because a competitor bought them. I guess all is fair in M&A, but this just seems like a stupid spat.
I'm guessing it's mostly Mark Hurd (Oracle president and ex-HP CEO) trying to look good by pointing out that he did refuse to buy Autonomy because the price he was discussing with them was overpriced in his opinion whereas HP bought them for almost twice the price.
It's basically Mark Hurd getting back at HP in the most pathetic way I've ever seen.
It's basically Mark Hurd getting back at HP in the most pathetic way I've ever seen.
I remember reading that Ellison takes a lot of things personally .
The funniest part of the press release for me is the "About Oracle" section:
"Oracle (NASDAQ: ORCL) is the world's most complete, open, and integrated business software and hardware systems company."
Put it on every release, it will become true? Or something?
"Oracle (NASDAQ: ORCL) is the world's most complete, open, and integrated business software and hardware systems company."
Put it on every release, it will become true? Or something?
Of course, if you look at the other side of the story, Oracle is said to be tossing lots of BS here.
See: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/sep/29/autonomy-orac...
Slides prepared by Qatalyst in January, meeting between Autonomy and Hurd as an introduction, not a sales pitch.
See: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/sep/29/autonomy-orac...
Slides prepared by Qatalyst in January, meeting between Autonomy and Hurd as an introduction, not a sales pitch.
From the statement:
> Mr. Lynch then accused of Oracle of being ‘inaccurate’. Either Mr. Lynch has a very poor memory or he’s lying.
Wow, things are really getting dirty between Oracle, HP, and Autonomy. Wonder will this affect HP's embattled share price further?
> Mr. Lynch then accused of Oracle of being ‘inaccurate’. Either Mr. Lynch has a very poor memory or he’s lying.
Wow, things are really getting dirty between Oracle, HP, and Autonomy. Wonder will this affect HP's embattled share price further?
It seems that things always get pretty dirty when Oracle is involved, but maybe they're just being honest.
I pretty much expect this would be Oracle's response, they tend not to let others have the last word on such things.
It is pretty interesting to me that during the SPARC SuperCluster event, Ellison did not mention HP, but instead focussed heavily on IBM's server.
It is pretty interesting to me that during the SPARC SuperCluster event, Ellison did not mention HP, but instead focussed heavily on IBM's server.
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It appears that Oracle has been taking PR lessons from Michael Arrington.
I find it ridiculous that companies operating at this level waste their time with things like this when they clearly have bigger issues on their hands. No wonder Oracle is struggling if this is where they are focused.
Is Oracle struggling? They certainly aren't struggling to make profit.
New software license sales and renewals are both down year-over-year as a percentage of overall sales. It might just be a blip, but I read it as a weakness in their core business. I think the size of the enterprise segment is shrinking - as Andreesen pointed out recently, it was pretty common ten years ago for startups to sink tons of cash into Oracle licenses. Nowadays, it doesn't happen at all. Internet-scale is no longer equivalent to enterprise scale, and less companies are buying Oracle as a result. Elsewhere, government sales are slowing as a result of global fiscal restraint, which basically leaves Fortune 500 to carry the water for Oracle. So yeah, "struggling" might be a bit over-the-top, I certainly wouldn't be betting on Oracle as a breakout story. They are probably a business in decline, and most likely to end up in a similar spot as SGI, DEC and tons of other former enterprise powerhouses that saw their core business diminished by the relentless commoditization that comes with advances in technology.
Andreesen pointed out recently, it was pretty common ten years ago for startups to sink tons of cash into Oracle
And Andreessen should be listened in this field because.... ? Serious corporations go for IBM, Oracle, SAP and the likes. They want stability and someone to show up and fix when things go wrong. Most of the 'startups' Marc is talking about, will be not be here 5 years from now.
What was Marc's last good investment? Ning or Groupon?
And Andreessen should be listened in this field because.... ? Serious corporations go for IBM, Oracle, SAP and the likes. They want stability and someone to show up and fix when things go wrong. Most of the 'startups' Marc is talking about, will be not be here 5 years from now.
What was Marc's last good investment? Ning or Groupon?
Skype, Facebook, Zynga, Twitter, Jawbone and Box.net are all in the Andreeson Horowitz portfolio. He seems to be doing fine.
Of note, he's also on the HP board of directors
Of note, he's also on the HP board of directors
Skype, Facebook, Zynga, Twitter, Jawbone and Box.net are all in the Andreeson Horowitz portfolio. He seems to be doing fine.
He bought FB way too late than most others. What valuation did he buy in Zynga, Twitter etc than we'll talk? Jut because they're 'hot' now doesn't mean that they'll make him money later.
He bought FB way too late than most others. What valuation did he buy in Zynga, Twitter etc than we'll talk? Jut because they're 'hot' now doesn't mean that they'll make him money later.
His point remains accurate regardless of his investing prowess. Startups aren't investing in Oracle licenses today and they were 10 years ago.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Google, Apple, Facebook are all using Oracle albeit not for their main consumer-facing product but more for internal systems that performs e-Commerce functionality.
Google, Apple, Facebook are all using Oracle albeit not for their main consumer-facing product but more for internal systems that performs e-Commerce functionality.
If by Oracle you mean heavily modified version of mysql, then yes. Or if you mean Java, then yes.
But if you mean any Oracle technologies that need to be licensed, then no.
But if you mean any Oracle technologies that need to be licensed, then no.
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I don't know, but based on your statement, I'd guess that they each probably have a few licenses for enterprise-grade apps. I don't think that changes the analysis that the market is moving on from what Oracle is selling.
Google and Apple? Are you sure about this?
http://easyoradba.wordpress.com/2011/04/04/apples-oracle-dat...
Check my above reply for Google.
Check my above reply for Google.
Don't be surprised we see Andreesen gladly selling his companies should Oracle come knocking with a few hundred million or billion.
You can not like Oracle and still like money...
HP is buying Autonomy for 10+B. Many analysts feel this is over priced, and on Oracle's earnings call Larry Ellison couldn't help but get a jab in at HP by saying that they (Mark Hurd ironically) told Autonomy they were overpriced at their current 6+B Market Cap when Autonomy went to Oracle looking for a suitor.
Autonomy CEO then said "WTF we never talked to Oracle about being purchased".
Then this.