Working at Apple (2011)(worrydream.com)
worrydream.com
Working at Apple (2011)
http://worrydream.com/#!/Apple
300 comments
I’ve often wondered how Apple manages to keep secrets across such a big organization. It’s fascinating and as an outsider I wonder if it’s because of a (cult like?) culture or because of fear (of legal consequences). It’s a real problem for those who want to showcase their portfolio and experience though, and that seems unfair.
The secret/silo culture at Apple is insane and I can’t believe Steve ever signed off on it.
Would be interesting how Apple installs such an ethos of secretivity - is it loyalty, respect or fear. Maybe a combination of all, and the fear may well be down to the aspect that if you are happy to dish secrets upon a past company then why should this company trust you with our secrets.
What if confidentiality agreements had a maximum duration? The author worked at Apple a decade ago. Perhaps their NDA agreements should expire about now.
Yes, it can be abused, but it’s kinda like copyright. It’s just like parents having a limited term: it (in theory) catches everyone up to best of X years ago.
Yes, it can be abused, but it’s kinda like copyright. It’s just like parents having a limited term: it (in theory) catches everyone up to best of X years ago.
Having met some people that work at Apple... they never stop talking about working at Apple.
I'm not sure how this relates to Apple specifically, apart from their reputation for secrecy. What large tech company allows its employees to disclose details of cancelled projects?
This question is about understanding invention in large companies, not as a knock against Bret Victor:
His job title had "inventor" in it, and he mentions making many things, but he describes the impact of his inventions in the passive voice:
"These concept apps were shown around internally, presumably to inspire the people who did the real work."
I gather from this that he didn't see his role as advocacy or promotion of his work, and from "presumably" that he didn't really know what the purpose was of all this showing-round. My question: would he have been able to get into production some of the things he made and cared about, had he engaged in advocacy, or would that have been problematic in Apple's culture?
His job title had "inventor" in it, and he mentions making many things, but he describes the impact of his inventions in the passive voice:
"These concept apps were shown around internally, presumably to inspire the people who did the real work."
I gather from this that he didn't see his role as advocacy or promotion of his work, and from "presumably" that he didn't really know what the purpose was of all this showing-round. My question: would he have been able to get into production some of the things he made and cared about, had he engaged in advocacy, or would that have been problematic in Apple's culture?
I recommend http://worrydream.com/#!/quotes by the same author.
I think I accumulated more time re-reading it than any other (single) web page over the years.
I think I accumulated more time re-reading it than any other (single) web page over the years.
Something seems off, am getting a "403 - Forbidden" while visiting the page.
Anybody else get it too or am I the only one?
This is while on Firefox Developer Edition on a Windows 10 PC.
Anybody else get it too or am I the only one?
This is while on Firefox Developer Edition on a Windows 10 PC.
Yes, exactly.
I remember that Guy Kawasaki once wrote that “Working for Apple is like being paid to go to Disneyland.”
That was quite some time ago. I’ll bet it no longer applies.
Happy Christmas, to those that celebrate it!
That was quite some time ago. I’ll bet it no longer applies.
Happy Christmas, to those that celebrate it!
I've noticed that we never see people who work at Apple here in the comments section of HN and I wonder what the reason could be. Perhaps Apple forbids employees to post here? Perhaps they have even blocked the domain? Or perhaps Apple employees have no interest in HN because they simply have no entrepreneurial aspirations?
[deleted]
A good friend of mine worked at Apple in a mid-to-senior role for about two years; when he joined he told me not to ask him anything so I didn't.
Shortly after he left we were having a drink, and I say: "Just tell me this, did you like it there?" He thought for a fair bit and eventually said "no comment".
Shortly after he left we were having a drink, and I say: "Just tell me this, did you like it there?" He thought for a fair bit and eventually said "no comment".
This is the same as working anywhere. It's best to maintain a strict work/private split. All company files, screenshots of company work, and the like go back to the company when I leave. If I want to re-create, from scratch, some of that work (and put enough of a spin on it to not run afoul of any patents or copyrights the company holds), and show it off, that's acceptable of course.
I am very grateful for my job to be writing free software. Everything is made available for the world to use or change without strings attached.
It feels like I am leaving some sort of legacy, no matter how small, and that makes my existence a lot more meaningful.
Did you exchange a walking part in a war for a lead role in a cage? –Pink Floyd
It feels like I am leaving some sort of legacy, no matter how small, and that makes my existence a lot more meaningful.
Did you exchange a walking part in a war for a lead role in a cage? –Pink Floyd
Every new article like this confirm the common thesis that Apple is more like a cult than a company.
I cannot fathom people preferring to work there over Google or Facebook, however everyone does have different ethics and pov’s.
I cannot fathom people preferring to work there over Google or Facebook, however everyone does have different ethics and pov’s.
Interestingly (for UK readers), Dominic Cummings is obsessed with Bret Victor (the author of this article).
I have some vague recollection that Bret Victor was involved with the design of the Touch Bar. Is this something that has been confirmed?
Or audio world can do what video and vfx world did, you know - move away from Apple platform altogether.
So on one hand you get to do some cool stuff for one of the most successful companies in the world.
On the other hand you cannot talk about anything you do at all, as if the time spent there does not exist.
Personally I'd rather spend my time at a company that allows for some discussion.
Personally I'd rather spend my time at a company that allows for some discussion.
But what prevents the employees of these secretive companies from posting anonymously here or elsewhere?
How the author left-
Goodbye Apple, great machine.
Grind and polish, smooth and shine.
I couldn't catch your match with mine.
But I will always say I tried,
and if a hundred fires died, perhaps the embers smolder on,
to be remembered when I'm gone.
http://worrydream.com/Departure/
Goodbye Apple, great machine.
Grind and polish, smooth and shine.
I couldn't catch your match with mine.
But I will always say I tried,
and if a hundred fires died, perhaps the embers smolder on,
to be remembered when I'm gone.
http://worrydream.com/Departure/
> Q - Oh, okay, I thought you had made some sort of mistake.
> A - Yes, exactly.
I suppose working at Apple was that mistake?
I suppose working at Apple was that mistake?
"What can you tell us about what you did in your last job?
Can't say.
"What were the biggest challenges at your last job?"
Can't say.
"Can you describe a situation in your last job that taught you about professionalism?"
Can't say.
"OK, did you like your last job?"
Can't say.
----
So you could've done absolutely nothing of value or done something amazing, but the simple fact that you worked at a multinational company is supposed to make you stand out positively.
Can't say.
"What were the biggest challenges at your last job?"
Can't say.
"Can you describe a situation in your last job that taught you about professionalism?"
Can't say.
"OK, did you like your last job?"
Can't say.
----
So you could've done absolutely nothing of value or done something amazing, but the simple fact that you worked at a multinational company is supposed to make you stand out positively.
I went there with JS disabled and was very confused–it just showed a list of links. Not pleasant.
Edit: With JS enabled, the design just amazed me
Edit: With JS enabled, the design just amazed me
How do people get the next job after Apple? Let's say someone has worked there for a good couple of years - are they not allowed to share anything about that period in the job interviews or on Linkedin?
So the tradition of hijacking web browser history navigation (back and forward), started from Apple?
I interviewed at Apple and talked with 8 engineers. Some had been working there for 6 years and none of them could tell me anything that they had worked on. They couldn’t even tell me if anything they had worked on had shipped. Sounded like a really interesting place to work, but if you can’t tell anyone about it, does it matter?