Japan on Track to Introduce Flying Taxi Services in 2023(spectrum.ieee.org)
spectrum.ieee.org
Japan on Track to Introduce Flying Taxi Services in 2023
https://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/aerospace/aviation/japan-on-track-to-introduce-flying-taxi-services-in-2023
14 comments
I can't find a video with honest sound. Those blades are not going to be quiet.
Demo flight is not very impressive, others have made much further flights that look much more stable. The 5 min flight time and 3km range is laughable. EHang already demoed 23 min years ago.
It is very wide, those rotors protrude out dangerously, so it would not be able to land anywhere other than a specialised enclosure. Struggling to see the point, other than another attempt at realising some childish geekboy fantasy.
As a hobbyist FPV drone pilot I can confidently say I won’t step foot in a quadcopter that does not have blade guards.
Not the first time someone was “on track” to roll out flying
cars in 3 years and it won’t be the last
> [Tomohiro] Fukuzawa [, SkyDrive’s CEO] is also targeting 2023 to begin taxi services (single passenger and pilot) in the Osaka Bay area, flying between locations like Kansai and Kobe airports and tourist attractions such as Universal Studios Japan. These flights will take less than ten minutes—a practical nod to the limitations of the battery energy storage system.
> “What SkyDrive is proposing is entirely do-able,” says [Steve] Wright [, Senior Research Fellow in Avionics and Aircraft Systems at the University of West England]. “Almost all rotor-only eVTOL projects are limited to sub-30-minute endurance, which, with safety reserves, equate to about 10 to 20 minutes flying.”
> “What SkyDrive is proposing is entirely do-able,” says [Steve] Wright [, Senior Research Fellow in Avionics and Aircraft Systems at the University of West England]. “Almost all rotor-only eVTOL projects are limited to sub-30-minute endurance, which, with safety reserves, equate to about 10 to 20 minutes flying.”
On a small scale (i.e. for a fair bit of money), some form of helicopter-ish shuttle service is eminently doable and, in fact, exists. An electric version is just a variant on a theme. Pan Am had helicopter service from JFK into Manhattan for first class passengers decades ago.
I don't think it's impossible to make flying cars work, but the practicality of them seems very questionable. I think Elon Musk makes some good points against them (noise, wind, anxiety, danger): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTh36uCf0Mk
Additionally, are they worth the energy & technology cost, or would really fast autonomous cars (even if they need a dedicated track or tunnel) be much more feasible? Making a vehicle roll along the ground requires a lot less energy than making one that moves along the same path but also fights gravity the entire way.
Additionally, are they worth the energy & technology cost, or would really fast autonomous cars (even if they need a dedicated track or tunnel) be much more feasible? Making a vehicle roll along the ground requires a lot less energy than making one that moves along the same path but also fights gravity the entire way.
> noise, [...] anxiety
How is it any categorically different from taking a helicopter ride today, or being a passenger in a fast-moving scooter? A lot of people are demonstrably fine with that.
> [...]wind
The wind from the propellers will be going downwards, I don't see why the user would be subjected to more wind than if they were on a motorcycle or in a convertible for the rest of the ride.
> are they worth the energy[...]
Some quick searching shows that a 85 kWh Tesla battery is 540 kg, this vehicle is 400 kg in total, let's say very optimistically that 200 kg of that is the battery, so around 40 kWh.
At $0.25 per kWh that's around $10 for a 5-10 minute ride. Considering you'd be able to traverse a significant distance in a dense city that doesn't seem too bad compared to a normal taxi.
> [...]& technology cost
Technology which is being developed for autonomous drones anyway, putting a seat in it instead of a cargo box doesn't make it that much more complex.
> [...]Making a vehicle roll along the ground[...]
Sure, but as a technology how much is rolling along the ground going to cost in a place like Tokyo if the government stopped subsidizing the land use required for that road surface?
That's going to be the main longer term impact of "flying cars" in dense cities.
How is it any categorically different from taking a helicopter ride today, or being a passenger in a fast-moving scooter? A lot of people are demonstrably fine with that.
> [...]wind
The wind from the propellers will be going downwards, I don't see why the user would be subjected to more wind than if they were on a motorcycle or in a convertible for the rest of the ride.
> are they worth the energy[...]
Some quick searching shows that a 85 kWh Tesla battery is 540 kg, this vehicle is 400 kg in total, let's say very optimistically that 200 kg of that is the battery, so around 40 kWh.
At $0.25 per kWh that's around $10 for a 5-10 minute ride. Considering you'd be able to traverse a significant distance in a dense city that doesn't seem too bad compared to a normal taxi.
> [...]& technology cost
Technology which is being developed for autonomous drones anyway, putting a seat in it instead of a cargo box doesn't make it that much more complex.
> [...]Making a vehicle roll along the ground[...]
Sure, but as a technology how much is rolling along the ground going to cost in a place like Tokyo if the government stopped subsidizing the land use required for that road surface?
That's going to be the main longer term impact of "flying cars" in dense cities.
> How is it any categorically different from taking a helicopter ride today, or being a passenger in a fast-moving scooter? A lot of people are demonstrably fine with that.
At the same time, a lot of people _aren't_ and those same people are going to be uncomfortable with these flying over their heads.
At the same time, a lot of people _aren't_ and those same people are going to be uncomfortable with these flying over their heads.
The wind is mainly a problem for everyone else, not the passenger themselves. Imagine being a pedestrian in a city where a chunk of all taxis is replaced with flying taxis, seems like a lot of hinder for everyone else just so some rich asshole can get slightly faster to their destination
This seems short-sighted. Mobile phones used to an annoying tool only "rich assholes" could use to loudly talk in a public space. Cars, air travel, electric cars - all at one point only affordable by the rich.
Suppose pretty much everyone can fly around in flying cars. Isn't there now an immense amount of noise and wind everywhere, akin to having a landing helicopter next to you all day?
Mark my words: this will not happen in 2023, nor in 2033, and I'd eat my hat if it happens in 2043.
We have "flying cars": they are called airplanes and helicopters. The latest trend is towards a hybrid vehicle that combines the Vertical Takeoff and Landing (VTOL) capabilities of a helicopter with the forward speed and efficiency of an airplane. Battery driven electric motors add another dimension to these designs as does autonomous operation.
The SkyDrive flying taxi seems to be an electric quadcopter [1] with coaxial rotors [2]. I'm assuming that the key advantage over a traditional helicopter is a smaller footprint due to the quadcopter configuration.
Perhaps we are conflating two innovations: functional electric passenger quadcopter and the infrastructure for flying taxi services.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadcopter
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_rotors
The SkyDrive flying taxi seems to be an electric quadcopter [1] with coaxial rotors [2]. I'm assuming that the key advantage over a traditional helicopter is a smaller footprint due to the quadcopter configuration.
Perhaps we are conflating two innovations: functional electric passenger quadcopter and the infrastructure for flying taxi services.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadcopter
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_rotors
One use I could see for these long term is getting people outside the circumference of a very congested road traffic area so they could then use ground transport. A small reduction in localized congestion can make a huge difference for even those in it.
I'm curious about the noise. In the video shown with the article, there is a barely audible hum; a helicopter, on the other hand, is audible for miles. A hundred consumer-scale drones in your neighborhood wouldn't be too bad, but a hundred helicopters certainly would be.
Edit: clarify "drones"
Edit: clarify "drones"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yc2L5koWZY
Seems rather too loud.
Seems rather too loud.
If you use electric motor, the noise of an internal combustion engine can be eliminated, although the propellers themselves make huge noise too.
Scaling the current electric quadcopter design to carry humans is a terrible idea. Traditional airplanes and helicopters with variable pitch rotors can safely land if they lose power. If a quadcopter loses power it cannot land safely, and the passengers will die if it falls from 100 feet. Parachutes are an option, but there is a weight penalty and a minimum operating height, which means the concept of a bunch of 1-4 passenger quads zipping around the city are unlikely to happen until there is a huge conceptual leap in the design of these systems. There are a lot of people that claim they won't fly in a 737 MAX because of its flight control problems, but quads would be a zillion times more dangerous for humans.
There used to be helicopter service from JFK to the top of the Pan Am building in NYC.
So "Air Taxis" aren't new
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/panam-building-helipad
It took a tragedy to end this service....
So "Air Taxis" aren't new
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/panam-building-helipad
It took a tragedy to end this service....
Bloomberg has a pretty good little vignette on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nbz5VFilxY
I don't see electric passenger drone taxis (flying cars) ever having the reliability: i.e. safety over time to be viable.
I think small electric passenger planes carrying ~10-50 people seems a much better solution.
But in the future most transportation will be self driving cars for short distance, electric trains for longer distances, and electric planes long international travel.
I think small electric passenger planes carrying ~10-50 people seems a much better solution.
But in the future most transportation will be self driving cars for short distance, electric trains for longer distances, and electric planes long international travel.
I always wonder why people are not trying to build these with helium balloons for lift. This would free up a lot of power for propulsion via the rotors. I suppose you'd need a very large balloon to lift the entire thing, but why not, say, one half the size, for some of the lift? This way it wouldn't float away either.
Anyone know the reasons this is not being done?
Anyone know the reasons this is not being done?
Drag? It would be like dragging an anchor once you start moving horizontally. Also, wind.