Ask HN: Defer College?
23 comments
Go to college. I had the same thoughts as you in high school. Here's why:
1. You're most likely incompetent. Don't take this personally. In HS, I thought I was amazing and a genius too. It took college to make me realize that there were a lot of smart people out there. I was the top 1% of the top 1% of my HS. And I'm definitely not even in the top 1% of my university.
2. You think you're a quick learner and a hard worker. Most people think they're quick learners and nobody likes to think they're lazy. Guess what, most people are actually average. I thought I was a quick learner in HS. I got to college and I realized that I'm pretty average. And in terms of hard work, I don't sleep in the library and take the 8 hardest courses the university has to offer in the same semester. So no, I don't even compare in "hard work ethic" to some of my friends.
2. You have a lot of theory to learn that will make you a better programmer and school is the right place to learn it. Yes you can learn it on your own. The majority of people think they can and some claim they do. 99% of them are kidding themselves and actually don't.
3. If you're at a university that pushes you (my experience is with CMU) you'll work harder than you ever thought possible. This just isn't something you'd do on your own because normally you couldn't fathom that this much work was possible.
4. You'll meet friends and professors who are much smarter than you and will be valuable friends along the way. You'll learn from them and improve yourself.
I don't mean to be mean, and take this with a grain of salt because maybe you are accomplished enough to not need college. Just take this as a warning to do a reality check, and then make sure your frame of reference is realistic. ;)
1. You're most likely incompetent. Don't take this personally. In HS, I thought I was amazing and a genius too. It took college to make me realize that there were a lot of smart people out there. I was the top 1% of the top 1% of my HS. And I'm definitely not even in the top 1% of my university.
2. You think you're a quick learner and a hard worker. Most people think they're quick learners and nobody likes to think they're lazy. Guess what, most people are actually average. I thought I was a quick learner in HS. I got to college and I realized that I'm pretty average. And in terms of hard work, I don't sleep in the library and take the 8 hardest courses the university has to offer in the same semester. So no, I don't even compare in "hard work ethic" to some of my friends.
2. You have a lot of theory to learn that will make you a better programmer and school is the right place to learn it. Yes you can learn it on your own. The majority of people think they can and some claim they do. 99% of them are kidding themselves and actually don't.
3. If you're at a university that pushes you (my experience is with CMU) you'll work harder than you ever thought possible. This just isn't something you'd do on your own because normally you couldn't fathom that this much work was possible.
4. You'll meet friends and professors who are much smarter than you and will be valuable friends along the way. You'll learn from them and improve yourself.
I don't mean to be mean, and take this with a grain of salt because maybe you are accomplished enough to not need college. Just take this as a warning to do a reality check, and then make sure your frame of reference is realistic. ;)
Well said.
College is hard for a reason. It'll make you better.
College is hard for a reason. It'll make you better.
But is it harder than working with/under somebody that's way better than you - in "the real world"?
I'm not sure what you mean but in my experience college tests your ability to master a wide variety of skills and topics while work requires you to become really good at only a few. However, it's that mastery of the wide variety of skills that will help you be the person everyone else works for someday.
Some people don't need college, but there is a reason most people do.
Some people don't need college, but there is a reason most people do.
College is not only for studying but also a good place to meet other people -- your future contacts and customers.
I would never hire a highschooler to do a real demanding coding job, and I would imagine that it's all a startup would have to offer. "A little bit of programming" is what a lot of your peers entering college have, and they're not jumping on the startup bandwagon or being recruited by tech companies. College is a necessary hurdle to weed out the people who suck. If at the end of the day the startup fails (and most do), then at least you still have your degree. I doubt admissions officers are really going to understand why you took a year off; after all, they're not going to be engineers.
Also, college is a terrific formative experience. I can't think of a better way to spend my time between 18 and 22. As an engineer you can pay for it by doing coops, which are usually $15-25/hr and you do it for six months (and get overtime pay). I have some friends that did two and were able to make payments on their cars and handily pay their tuition and housing.
Also, college is a terrific formative experience. I can't think of a better way to spend my time between 18 and 22. As an engineer you can pay for it by doing coops, which are usually $15-25/hr and you do it for six months (and get overtime pay). I have some friends that did two and were able to make payments on their cars and handily pay their tuition and housing.
I got straight A's in high school. One of the most important things I learned in college was how to fail (and if you don't, you aren't working hard enough). College holds some important life lessons, if nothing else.
Some people think colleges churn out incompetent zombies, but whether or not you get good at your craft is up to you -- get involved in projects, research, and seek internships. This could even lead to a start-up of your own.
The best part is, worst case scenario, you have a degree to show employers you are competent. You need to get money from somewhere (even if you are working on a start-up)!
There are so many more perks to graduating college. I really encourage you to go! So many great experiences await you. But as Mark Twain said, "Never let school interfere with you education."
And to re-iterate the sound advice of those who commented before me...there's always someone better.
Some people think colleges churn out incompetent zombies, but whether or not you get good at your craft is up to you -- get involved in projects, research, and seek internships. This could even lead to a start-up of your own.
The best part is, worst case scenario, you have a degree to show employers you are competent. You need to get money from somewhere (even if you are working on a start-up)!
There are so many more perks to graduating college. I really encourage you to go! So many great experiences await you. But as Mark Twain said, "Never let school interfere with you education."
And to re-iterate the sound advice of those who commented before me...there's always someone better.
What do you want to do with your programming career, or what do you think you'd like to do?
Going to college with your major choices will teach you computer science, and you'll pick up some programming along the way. Conversely, going to work for a startup will teach you programming, and you may pick up some computer science along the way.
It depends upon what kind of programmer you want to be, and what you enjoy doing.
Going to college with your major choices will teach you computer science, and you'll pick up some programming along the way. Conversely, going to work for a startup will teach you programming, and you may pick up some computer science along the way.
It depends upon what kind of programmer you want to be, and what you enjoy doing.
My ambitions really aren't a programming career. I'd live to be able to program whatever ideas pop into my head. I'm able to do that only with lsl.
What I want to do (eventually) is start my own company that creates technology to aid education. I'd be lying if I said I didn't have a stack of ideas already lined up; however, I don't have the knowledge necessary or the capital. My end goal is to help people, and I feel as if it is time to decide the first real step.
What I want to do (eventually) is start my own company that creates technology to aid education. I'd be lying if I said I didn't have a stack of ideas already lined up; however, I don't have the knowledge necessary or the capital. My end goal is to help people, and I feel as if it is time to decide the first real step.
I agree with what jchonphoenix said.
If you want to be a developer of note without school, you're going to have to work your ass off, and then once all your ass is gone you're going to have to work up some ass debt and keep learning, except that you're not sure what to learn next, you don't even know what you don't know, you don't have friends in class going through the same thing or guidance from a professor. You'll be on your own. It will be stressful, and there won't be any pretty girls to kiss.
If you want to be a developer of note with school, then you'll have an incredibly solid foundation to build off of. And if you work on your ideas on the side (as you should) there's nothing better than learning something in a lecture and being able to go home and directly apply it that evening to your own work.
You've already said that you want to make technology to aid education, so immerse yourself in it. Get the best education you can, study the education you're getting, not just the material you're learning. Ask yourself, "How could this be better, how could I make some manner of technology to improve this experience, or bring this to other people?" By furthering your education, you'll not only be getting the tools you need to create your idea, you'll be doing the research too. It's always better to kill two birds with one stone.
If you want to be a developer of note without school, you're going to have to work your ass off, and then once all your ass is gone you're going to have to work up some ass debt and keep learning, except that you're not sure what to learn next, you don't even know what you don't know, you don't have friends in class going through the same thing or guidance from a professor. You'll be on your own. It will be stressful, and there won't be any pretty girls to kiss.
If you want to be a developer of note with school, then you'll have an incredibly solid foundation to build off of. And if you work on your ideas on the side (as you should) there's nothing better than learning something in a lecture and being able to go home and directly apply it that evening to your own work.
You've already said that you want to make technology to aid education, so immerse yourself in it. Get the best education you can, study the education you're getting, not just the material you're learning. Ask yourself, "How could this be better, how could I make some manner of technology to improve this experience, or bring this to other people?" By furthering your education, you'll not only be getting the tools you need to create your idea, you'll be doing the research too. It's always better to kill two birds with one stone.
Depends on your situation. It sounds to me like you would like to work more for the experience than for the money (otherwise I'm guessing you wouldn't have much of a choice.) Just start school and code in your free time. In fact, why not do your own star-tup(s)? People have this image of a start-up but really any business which could bring in many on the side is great. Build something small that could bring in $100 / month. Then keep building so that you can hit $500 / month. Keep working your way up. Maybe that's one site, maybe it's a bunch of things.
I would rather have 10 different income sources which collectively pay me as much as my day job than put insane hours into one start-up which I'm hoping will be a home run (or working for one and hoping for the same.)
You might be better off picking one major and getting out as fast as you can. I'm not sure how much extra school would be required for the double major, but it would certainly cost you in time and money. That's time you could be working or coding.
I would rather have 10 different income sources which collectively pay me as much as my day job than put insane hours into one start-up which I'm hoping will be a home run (or working for one and hoping for the same.)
You might be better off picking one major and getting out as fast as you can. I'm not sure how much extra school would be required for the double major, but it would certainly cost you in time and money. That's time you could be working or coding.
I definitely value the experience more than the money, and I would love to start my own start-up(s). The problem with that; however, is that I don't have the knowledge to physically build my ideas. That's what the E.E. major is for.
Maybe I should stick with the E.E. major and work on CompSi&Coding in my free time.
Maybe I should stick with the E.E. major and work on CompSi&Coding in my free time.
Right, I would stick with the E.E. major if that's what you are more interested in. You don't need the CS degree to be a programmer and the E.E. degree would be enough to show that you got the brains.
As for start-up building, all the more reason to give it a go. As with anything, you learn by doing. You know nothing about building your ideas, but once you take a shot you learn a lot more about it. You don't need to shoot for the stars. Try something small.
As for start-up building, all the more reason to give it a go. As with anything, you learn by doing. You know nothing about building your ideas, but once you take a shot you learn a lot more about it. You don't need to shoot for the stars. Try something small.
Computer science, EE, and coding are three very different things. Make sure you really understand what each one consists of before you decide to pursue it in school.
Life is not about a start up. A start up is just going become a part of life, and how big you make it is up to you. You might get involved in a start up now, but i have a feeling you do not know what it is to be an entrepreneur; and to know that, you need to go to college. Being an entrepreneur is a process of self discovery- like enlightenment and it has to happen itself, don't force it upon yourself. Go to college. And when you 'feel' you no longer need to be in college, quit. If you never feel that way while you are there, get that degree!
If you are interested in a startup, see if you can do small tasks for them while you are in school. Realistically, you probably are slightly inexperienced compared to CS grads, but perhaps you can do the odd jobs like minor testing or bug checking.
A lot of college students get jobs anyway while in school, so there's no reason to think you couldn't do some part time work for the startup.
The big advantage of this is you get some real-life experience and, come graduation time, you might have a job waiting or will get kick-ass referrals.
A lot of college students get jobs anyway while in school, so there's no reason to think you couldn't do some part time work for the startup.
The big advantage of this is you get some real-life experience and, come graduation time, you might have a job waiting or will get kick-ass referrals.
Ask yourself what your priorities are with going to college. Let’s say you do get a job for a start-up, will you set yourself a time limit of say a year before you go to college. You will find it harder and harder to give up a job and go to college the longer you continue to work. As others have mentioned you can always apply for internships while you are at college. You might find better opportunities and more doors open if you do go to college.
You can always leave collage if along the line you find a start-up that suits you.
Have you contacted any startups about jobs? If nobody shows any interests in your level of experience, then you don't have a dilemma, just go to school
[Edit]
This isn't to say that if you don't have an offer firmly in hand, go to school, but if nobody has even said 'gosh, we wish we had the money to hire you', then you might be much better off going to school and working on some impressive side projects.
[Edit]
This isn't to say that if you don't have an offer firmly in hand, go to school, but if nobody has even said 'gosh, we wish we had the money to hire you', then you might be much better off going to school and working on some impressive side projects.
I haven't contacted any startups. I really only seriously started considering it when I got into college, which was the beginning of April. However, now that I've thought about it, I really would like to do it.
Getting into college doesn't limit you. Apply to some places you'd like to work anyway. There's no cost associated with seeing if startups you'd like to work for show any interest in you. That college admission will still be there if they show no interest.
Send some emails. There's no point in us telling you to go and try for a startup if nobody is willing to hire you.
I don't say this to be harsh.
When I was going into first year University, I was working for a startup doing tech support and I was pretty sure that I was amazing.
I wouldn't hire the kid I was when I started in University. He was smart, ambitious, and knew a few things, but he didn't understand business and he didn't understand that there's a whole lot of programming that goes beyond SQL statements.
During University I started my own business and learned a lot both in and out of classes. I'm graduating in a couple of weeks, and I've got a good business ready for me to focus on it.
The time I spent at school has helped me enormously, but only because I've been working as hard as I can to make the time worthwhile.
Startups are hard, you have to be a good to great programmer to participate, and sometimes the ambition isn't enough without experience to back it up.
Send some emails. There's no point in us telling you to go and try for a startup if nobody is willing to hire you.
I don't say this to be harsh.
When I was going into first year University, I was working for a startup doing tech support and I was pretty sure that I was amazing.
I wouldn't hire the kid I was when I started in University. He was smart, ambitious, and knew a few things, but he didn't understand business and he didn't understand that there's a whole lot of programming that goes beyond SQL statements.
During University I started my own business and learned a lot both in and out of classes. I'm graduating in a couple of weeks, and I've got a good business ready for me to focus on it.
The time I spent at school has helped me enormously, but only because I've been working as hard as I can to make the time worthwhile.
Startups are hard, you have to be a good to great programmer to participate, and sometimes the ambition isn't enough without experience to back it up.
I totally agree with what you said. I will send out some emails, and see what they say.
As for startups being hard, I'm looking for experience now, so that when I start my own, I won't be lost.
As for startups being hard, I'm looking for experience now, so that when I start my own, I won't be lost.
I'm here to ask for advice. I've gotten into college, but I would like to defer and work at a start-up in the bay area for a year. I've done a little bit of c++, java, javascript + html + css, and a lot of lsl (from the virtual world Second Life). I don't know if I would be very useful as a coder (right now), but I learn very fast, and I will learn if given the opportunity. Because I go to a boarding school on the east coast, I haven't had a lot of time (they don't give us any free time here) to code and search for jobs, but I want to know if you all think I should start contacting start-ups in the bay area for a job. I know it's a little late in the game for job hunting, but do you all think it's worth it? Or should I go to college? In case it's relevant, I would double major in Computer Science and Electrical Engineering in college. Please ask me questions if you have any!