Ex-Engadget Crew Starting New Site(nytimes.com)
nytimes.com
Ex-Engadget Crew Starting New Site
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/04/business/media/04carr.html?_r=1
13 comments
The GameSpot.com to GiantBomb.com migration was/is a similar situation. Many of GameSpot's top editors left around the 'Gerstmann Incident' to form Giant Bomb. It hasn't had a long term effect on GameSpot's traffic, and despite great content, GiantBomb hasn't really taken off[1].
My feeling is that for established media style sites, unless the people breaking away are doing something _very_ unique, it's the URL that's more important.
[1] I'm not privy to their data and goals, but traffic wise they aren't getting closer to GameSpot. It's just my impression.
My feeling is that for established media style sites, unless the people breaking away are doing something _very_ unique, it's the URL that's more important.
[1] I'm not privy to their data and goals, but traffic wise they aren't getting closer to GameSpot. It's just my impression.
The traffic isn't all that relevant. It's what you can do with that traffic. GiantBomb is where the content is. Sort of like Digg may have the traffic, but places like HN have the conversation.
For example, GiantBomb has something like 6,000 (at least) members willing to pay $50-$60/yr to subscribe to the site. That's fairly significant for a two year old site.
For example, GiantBomb has something like 6,000 (at least) members willing to pay $50-$60/yr to subscribe to the site. That's fairly significant for a two year old site.
I do not think it needs much more "taking off". The site has 9300 paying members (according to [1]), which I assume means they're profitable. I get the impression that the founders aren't looking for more than a lifestyle business.
[1] https://auth.whiskeymedia.com/world-tour/
[1] https://auth.whiskeymedia.com/world-tour/
Topolsky is an interesting case because he's actually been on tv shows as a guest. His identity is beginning to become more then just the website he's attached to. I think he'll be able to easily bring readers over to the next URL.
Being able to plug his site on Jimmy Fallon will surely help with traffic.
If this is the reason they left - it's not a great idea. Engadget was fairly well regarded before they came on board and quite frankly, after Peter Rojas left it has continued to do quite well. In fact, I'd argue that his next venture - gdgt - hasn't really gained much traction.
Brands are NOT easy to build. The NYTimes will remain the NYTimes, despite the fact that many editors will come and go. I think Engadget is in the same place - a new editorial group will replace the old, and they will be forgotten.
The thing is, this team at Engadget has a really tight bond with its core fans ... their podcasts were more like listening in on a conversation between best friends rather than formal tech podcasts. It was just their style -- they/Josh wanted to up the game as far as they could, I mean, take a look at The Endgadget Show. Hell, compare their progress with Gizmodo's. I just feel like I have lots of faith in this team and Josh.
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If you read carefully, this is almost a technology decision. They specifically mention the cms they had to use at aol as being very old, and that the cms in use at SB Nation has great support for live-events and ad-hoc tabular data.
One of the biggest problems with AOL content sites (other than the crappy content) is the discussion system. It's a step up from using something like Facebook Connect/Chat stuff, but it's still miserable. I never post to their sites (even on the MMO and the Joystiq sites that I even give a slight damn about), because I'm never sure exactly who it is going to say that I am.
A couple years ago, I made a post on one of their sites and was surprised to see it use my real name. I'm not sure how it did that (no, I've never had an AOL account). It disturbed me and I've never touched it, since.
I know the content creators have always despised the forum system, too. It supposedly was completely redone this year, but when I looked at it, it seemed exactly the same to me.
A couple years ago, I made a post on one of their sites and was surprised to see it use my real name. I'm not sure how it did that (no, I've never had an AOL account). It disturbed me and I've never touched it, since.
I know the content creators have always despised the forum system, too. It supposedly was completely redone this year, but when I looked at it, it seemed exactly the same to me.
Here's Topolsky's blog post on the issue: http://joshuatopolsky.com/post/4327161218/this-is-my-next-pr...
"Of course, the natural question I’m sure a lot of people have is: why SB Nation? The easy answer is that the people at SB Nation share my vision of what publishing looks like in the year 2011. They think that the technology used to create and distribute news on the web (and mobile) is as important as the people who are responsible for the content itself. And that’s not just pillow talk — SB Nation is actively evolving its tools and processes to meet the growing and changing needs of its vast editorial teams and their audience communities. They’re building for the web as it is now. From the perspective of a journalist who also happens to be a huge nerd, that’s a match made in heaven. SBN isn’t just another media company pushing news out — it’s a testbed and lab for some of the newest and most interesting publishing tools I’ve ever seen. In short, I was blown away when I saw what kind of technology they’re using to get news on their front page and engage audiences, and even more blown away when I started talking to them about what could come next."
"Of course, the natural question I’m sure a lot of people have is: why SB Nation? The easy answer is that the people at SB Nation share my vision of what publishing looks like in the year 2011. They think that the technology used to create and distribute news on the web (and mobile) is as important as the people who are responsible for the content itself. And that’s not just pillow talk — SB Nation is actively evolving its tools and processes to meet the growing and changing needs of its vast editorial teams and their audience communities. They’re building for the web as it is now. From the perspective of a journalist who also happens to be a huge nerd, that’s a match made in heaven. SBN isn’t just another media company pushing news out — it’s a testbed and lab for some of the newest and most interesting publishing tools I’ve ever seen. In short, I was blown away when I saw what kind of technology they’re using to get news on their front page and engage audiences, and even more blown away when I started talking to them about what could come next."
I'm a huge fan of the Angels and I've been a part of Halos Heaven for several years now. That's the SB Nation fan site / blog for the Angels. It's a great platform for building a community, and there have been moves to further legitimize the platform.
It's great to see this Engadget exodus ending up at SB Nation. I have a feeling they'll do very well there, and have the cachet to make positive changes to the site as a whole.
It's great to see this Engadget exodus ending up at SB Nation. I have a feeling they'll do very well there, and have the cachet to make positive changes to the site as a whole.
I can't wait to see what the crew (now with Bankoff) will be able to do. Engadget is not and will not be the same without its core editorial staff and it is a shame that AOL ruined such a great property.
The article seems to suggest that the new site would exist as part of SB Nation, but I highly doubt that. Like the article suggests, there isn't much relation between the two sides besides a relatively similar demographic. Otherwise, that was a decent read.
I digress -- this news wasn't especially shocking but it's very nice to know that they aren't done with tech blogging yet. I'm very excited to see what the new site will bring to the table.
The article seems to suggest that the new site would exist as part of SB Nation, but I highly doubt that. Like the article suggests, there isn't much relation between the two sides besides a relatively similar demographic. Otherwise, that was a decent read.
I digress -- this news wasn't especially shocking but it's very nice to know that they aren't done with tech blogging yet. I'm very excited to see what the new site will bring to the table.
Ryan Block did the same a couple of years ago. I'd have guessed gdgt.com would have more users than it now has.
GDGT is a bit of a different product. Peter Rojas launched Gizmodo and then Engadget, which are both news sites. When he and Ryan Block left to form GDGT they didn't build "tech news site #3" but a community-driven discussion board around individual products.
Maybe the site hasn't reached the user numbers of its "grandparents" - it has a different mission. Through the GDGT Live events Block and Rojas have created mini electronics shows for the users of tech products. It's also a bit of a party atmosphere, but all in nerd fun.
I went to the Boston event in September and saw some interesting products, including a Boxee box. What are the odds one will be set up to test in, say, Best Buy?
The people behind Springpad and SCVNGR were really cool/fun to talk to. You don't get that experience on the web. GDGT isn't Engadget and I don't think it needs to be.
Maybe the site hasn't reached the user numbers of its "grandparents" - it has a different mission. Through the GDGT Live events Block and Rojas have created mini electronics shows for the users of tech products. It's also a bit of a party atmosphere, but all in nerd fun.
I went to the Boston event in September and saw some interesting products, including a Boxee box. What are the odds one will be set up to test in, say, Best Buy?
The people behind Springpad and SCVNGR were really cool/fun to talk to. You don't get that experience on the web. GDGT isn't Engadget and I don't think it needs to be.
Knowing what gdgt is, and knowing that it is not engadget, I'd have still guessed gdgt to be bigger and better than it is.
One of the big things this group has going for it is the public persona Topolsky has been able to create.
If he continues to do his tech segments on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, he can quickly get the brand for the new blog out to a huge audience.
If he continues to do his tech segments on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, he can quickly get the brand for the new blog out to a huge audience.
It can't be that much of a public persona. I've never heard of him. Then again, I've never watched Jimmy Fallon (I know it's a late night show, but that's it). How much traction is that going to have with a general public? Not much, I suspect. I don't argue that some sites have a very distinct personality behind the content, but from the little I could tolerate of Engadget's very repetitive and unoriginal content was that the personalities were largely irrelevant. Maybe that's a misread on my part, but that's the impression I've come away with.
Predictions on how long it will take before AOL acquires them?
My guess: 6-10 months.
My guess: 6-10 months.
We knew this coming, not a big surprise but I am looking forward to seeing what they will re-emerge with.
Wonder how soon before AOL buys them out...
I wish these guys luck but I'm skeptical about how much traction they'll get.
There is a lot of inertia with Web properties. Big sites take years to die. Hell, Myspace still has ~60 million users (You can't explain that).
Despite all the clamour about the "AOL Way" all evidence seemed to point to AOL being fairly hands off when it came to Engadget (according to Patel and others) so I'm not sure there was ever really any problem to solve other than chafing under the corporate yoke and a "grass is greener" desire for something smaller they built together.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Like I said: good luck guys. It's a crowded space so you may well need it.
There is a lot of inertia with Web properties. Big sites take years to die. Hell, Myspace still has ~60 million users (You can't explain that).
Despite all the clamour about the "AOL Way" all evidence seemed to point to AOL being fairly hands off when it came to Engadget (according to Patel and others) so I'm not sure there was ever really any problem to solve other than chafing under the corporate yoke and a "grass is greener" desire for something smaller they built together.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Like I said: good luck guys. It's a crowded space so you may well need it.
>Big sites take years to die.
Engadget does not have to die for the new venture to succeed.
Engadget does not have to die for the new venture to succeed.
But web publishing is different because it's not like software which requires exclusive use (most people won't use 2 different word processors for instance) and it's not like publishing where you have to pay for the product.
I'm reminded of people like Marshall Kirkpatrick and Duncan Riley who both broke off from Techcrunch and created successful sites without hurting the site they broke off from. At the same time there was a mass talent exodus from TVGuide.com a while back (they created their own site at TVGuidemagazine.com) and those people failed completely (eventually re-merging with tvguide.com)
So every time something like this happens it goes further towards answering the question of what is more important, the URL or the people