Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes(washingtonpost.com)
washingtonpost.com
Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/11/14/how-amazons-quest-more-cheaper-products-has-resulted-flea-market-fakes/
392 comments
Forget counterfeits for a second.
Even trying to find something like an ultrasonic cleaner on Amazon is like straight going through AliExpress.
But wait! Unless you're buying a very very expensive lab model all the "name brands" look to be sourcing the same way and adding a label too. So the name brands are AliExpress with maybe better QC and 200% markup.
But wait! Even looking everywhere else it's the same situation as Amazon!
It's almost like the entire marketplace is overrun with untrustworthy cheap crap no matter where you shop and getting something you can trust is decent is only for large institutional or business actors and the wealthy.
Which is to say I think the problem is bigger than just Amazon.
Even trying to find something like an ultrasonic cleaner on Amazon is like straight going through AliExpress.
But wait! Unless you're buying a very very expensive lab model all the "name brands" look to be sourcing the same way and adding a label too. So the name brands are AliExpress with maybe better QC and 200% markup.
But wait! Even looking everywhere else it's the same situation as Amazon!
It's almost like the entire marketplace is overrun with untrustworthy cheap crap no matter where you shop and getting something you can trust is decent is only for large institutional or business actors and the wealthy.
Which is to say I think the problem is bigger than just Amazon.
Amazon's decision to employ lawyers and lobbyists instead of oversight resulted in a public black market they openly run but are not responsible for profiting from.
I am excited to see which state will have the first Amazon fulfillment center crawling with feds. They have to raid one eventually to get to the bottom of the lead, the counterfeits etc. How is Amazon preventing the EPA or the FTC from doing their job and raiding facilities?
It's almost like big oil and big tobacco again.... all-powerful companies deliberately doing wrong for profit, like Amazon they even looked too big to challenge for a very long time.
> Amazon has been selling thousands of products that violate federal safety regulations, according to the Wall Street Journal, including toys containing dangerous levels of lead.
https://www.insider.com/amazon-selling-toxic-toys-lead-poiso...
> At the time, Nike agreed to sell a limited product assortment to Amazon, in exchange for stricter policing of counterfeits and restrictions on unsanctioned sales of its products.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/13/nike-wont-sell-directly-to-a...
I am excited to see which state will have the first Amazon fulfillment center crawling with feds. They have to raid one eventually to get to the bottom of the lead, the counterfeits etc. How is Amazon preventing the EPA or the FTC from doing their job and raiding facilities?
It's almost like big oil and big tobacco again.... all-powerful companies deliberately doing wrong for profit, like Amazon they even looked too big to challenge for a very long time.
> Amazon has been selling thousands of products that violate federal safety regulations, according to the Wall Street Journal, including toys containing dangerous levels of lead.
https://www.insider.com/amazon-selling-toxic-toys-lead-poiso...
> At the time, Nike agreed to sell a limited product assortment to Amazon, in exchange for stricter policing of counterfeits and restrictions on unsanctioned sales of its products.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/13/nike-wont-sell-directly-to-a...
I've been a consultant for Amazon suppliers since 2009 and seen tons of junk come onto the market.
Every retailer in the world (besides Amazon) has incredibly strict supplier verification because if someone dies from a toaster fire, extension cord shortage, etc. then everyone sues everyone.
Amazon DNGAF because the risk is on the "seller". Just like TAX RISK is on the "seller".
People are importing shit from their basement, trying to get rich, with no clue about product risk when it should be slightly harder.
Every retailer in the world (besides Amazon) has incredibly strict supplier verification because if someone dies from a toaster fire, extension cord shortage, etc. then everyone sues everyone.
Amazon DNGAF because the risk is on the "seller". Just like TAX RISK is on the "seller".
People are importing shit from their basement, trying to get rich, with no clue about product risk when it should be slightly harder.
All the ballyhoo about Amazon Transparency and UUID per item. This is a relatively well solved issue in other areas.
Make become a seller a bit more difficult with some skin in the game ($2,500 deposit if you sell more than 15 items per year? In person identity verification?). Sellers used to meet with buyers agents (cost money and added identities).
Caught selling garbage (product marked new actually used, totaly fake junk) enough times -> gone from marketplace and hard to get back in.
The reality is Amazon doesn't care - there IS a market opportunity here for someone to take them on with trusted product catalog and quick shipping (using UPS / Fedex). I wish somebody would straight compete with them rather than all the complaining to politicians.
Make become a seller a bit more difficult with some skin in the game ($2,500 deposit if you sell more than 15 items per year? In person identity verification?). Sellers used to meet with buyers agents (cost money and added identities).
Caught selling garbage (product marked new actually used, totaly fake junk) enough times -> gone from marketplace and hard to get back in.
The reality is Amazon doesn't care - there IS a market opportunity here for someone to take them on with trusted product catalog and quick shipping (using UPS / Fedex). I wish somebody would straight compete with them rather than all the complaining to politicians.
There's a lot of emphasis in this article on counterfeits of luxury goods sold at obviously counterfeit prices (like the Hermès for 5% of genuine retail), but not much on the far more insidious (and seemingly pervasive, in my experience) general merchandise counterfeits sold for what is often not a suspiciously big discount.
Categories like kitchen or yard tools are absolutely rife with counterfeits. As an example, search Amazon for Ove Glove heat-resistant oven gloves: The Amazon's-Choice-badged option (which, I know, is chosen by algorithm) yields a product page where the top review complains they received a product without several of the trademark details on the older set they own. The reviewer even acknowledges the difficulty in tracking down genuine Ove Gloves on Amazon! They ultimately resign themselves to defeat: "What a game: I rolled the dice and lost."
Of course, there are also quite sophisticated fakes in categories such as consumer electronics. Fake controllers for game consoles are a standout: Search for the Playstation DualShock 4 controller and you'll find the official product page littered with reviews complaining of an entire continuum of fakes, ranging from obvious to ones that are almost entirely indistinguishable until the knockoff battery stops holding a charge after a few weeks.
I'm not really sure what product categories are still safe to buy on Amazon, given that everything from food to books has varying degrees of counterfeit mixed in. At least something like an iPad should be impossible to fake due to the cryptographic requirements for booting the OS.
Categories like kitchen or yard tools are absolutely rife with counterfeits. As an example, search Amazon for Ove Glove heat-resistant oven gloves: The Amazon's-Choice-badged option (which, I know, is chosen by algorithm) yields a product page where the top review complains they received a product without several of the trademark details on the older set they own. The reviewer even acknowledges the difficulty in tracking down genuine Ove Gloves on Amazon! They ultimately resign themselves to defeat: "What a game: I rolled the dice and lost."
Of course, there are also quite sophisticated fakes in categories such as consumer electronics. Fake controllers for game consoles are a standout: Search for the Playstation DualShock 4 controller and you'll find the official product page littered with reviews complaining of an entire continuum of fakes, ranging from obvious to ones that are almost entirely indistinguishable until the knockoff battery stops holding a charge after a few weeks.
I'm not really sure what product categories are still safe to buy on Amazon, given that everything from food to books has varying degrees of counterfeit mixed in. At least something like an iPad should be impossible to fake due to the cryptographic requirements for booting the OS.
Amazon's fulfilment has also become shockingly bad. Most items are shipped in lightly-padded manila envelopes resulting in high percentage of damaged goods if you order books[1], CDs/DVDs/BluRays, video games, or anything else where the packaging is part of the product. eBay is a much better experience in this regard.
[1] In an ironic twist, I absolutely refuse to buy books from Amazon anymore.
[1] In an ironic twist, I absolutely refuse to buy books from Amazon anymore.
Bezos is famous for being a micromanager to the extreme (and a very good one reportedly, if rather tyrannical). So there is no question about whether he has been personally aware of this situation for years.
This follows a similar pattern (MS/Gates) where very unscrupulous business practices are employed until the company becomes a juggernaut and can do anything it wants, and the top executives become fabulously wealthy. Then one day, once the man is rich and successful enough that the thrill is gone, he switches to professional philanthropy. As time passes, _how_ he got to the top is forgotten and he is hailed a hero and American success.
This follows a similar pattern (MS/Gates) where very unscrupulous business practices are employed until the company becomes a juggernaut and can do anything it wants, and the top executives become fabulously wealthy. Then one day, once the man is rich and successful enough that the thrill is gone, he switches to professional philanthropy. As time passes, _how_ he got to the top is forgotten and he is hailed a hero and American success.
One of my Amazon orders was just re-ordered from Wallmart under my name and shipped by Wallmart to my address. I even got the Walmart receipt with the cheaper price in the package.
I was not happy about that, esp. that some stranger is entering my shipping info to some other retailers DB. It is also clearly against Amazon ToS. I have contacted Amazon, citing the ToS violation and concern about my personal data and the only thing they said was that they are sorry and will notify the seller bout this. Nothing happened.
Also, my honest review about this was taken down.
I was not happy about that, esp. that some stranger is entering my shipping info to some other retailers DB. It is also clearly against Amazon ToS. I have contacted Amazon, citing the ToS violation and concern about my personal data and the only thing they said was that they are sorry and will notify the seller bout this. Nothing happened.
Also, my honest review about this was taken down.
If you receive a counterfeit item sold by Amazon, make sure to report it to the company whose product was counterfeited.
When I went to return a counterfeit item to Amazon, I made it very clear that the item I received was fake. Amazon decided claim that the reason for the return was because it was damaged, not counterfeited. That's pretty shady in my book.
There's liability for selling counterfeited goods, especially if your customers tell you that the products you stock are counterfeited and you continue to sell them anyway.
When I went to return a counterfeit item to Amazon, I made it very clear that the item I received was fake. Amazon decided claim that the reason for the return was because it was damaged, not counterfeited. That's pretty shady in my book.
There's liability for selling counterfeited goods, especially if your customers tell you that the products you stock are counterfeited and you continue to sell them anyway.
I think this article seems like a good example of editorial independence. Even though both Amazon and the Washington Post are pretty much owned by the same person, the Washington Post has published a pretty negative article about Amazon.
There are some categories of product I'm no longer willing to buy from Amazon: power cables, replacement chargers and batteries being the biggest offenders. They're such a minefield of fakery and shortcuts that are outright dangerous (e.g. UK plugs lacking fuses and with pins the wrong shape/size) that I'd rather have the extra work and expense of going to a local shop where I can inspect what I'm buying.
I quit Amazon Prime about 2-3 years ago and haven't purchased anything from their site after they let a seller send me a completely bogus product (it was supposed to be rose oil) and wouldn't let me rate and comment on it after I demanded a refund (which I got).
And the product is still there. And while it has a lot of buyers still exposing and complaining about it in the reviews Amazon has done nothing at all to stop the sellers.
I really don't see how Amazon cannot be held both complicit and liable in cases of blatant fraud like this, and one has to assume it's a pervasive and growing problem for buyers there.
And the product is still there. And while it has a lot of buyers still exposing and complaining about it in the reviews Amazon has done nothing at all to stop the sellers.
I really don't see how Amazon cannot be held both complicit and liable in cases of blatant fraud like this, and one has to assume it's a pervasive and growing problem for buyers there.
Oh hey, that's me in the article :-)
After getting a fraudulent bag from Amazon, it was frustrating to have to fight for a refund. While my credit card would have easily processes a chargeback, I'm afraid do that. If you don't play by the rules of a marketplace, then you risk getting banned.
After getting a fraudulent bag from Amazon, it was frustrating to have to fight for a refund. While my credit card would have easily processes a chargeback, I'm afraid do that. If you don't play by the rules of a marketplace, then you risk getting banned.
Must say my experiences with Amazon have been pretty consistently positive despite heavy purchasing. Plus I buy mostly warehouse open box stuff which is extra risky. Couple of lessons learned:
* Warehouse deal laptops don't get checked for batteries. So it might boot & be good but dies if you pull the plug
* Warehouse deal laptop have a increased chance of thermal issues (bad binning / bad thermal paste / whatever)
* Open box / used is basically untouched like half the time. They rarely show actual signs of wear despite a billion warnings about 1/4 scratch on front and 3/4 on back and what not.
* Pay careful attention to appliances that require both water and electricity. A cheap mini rice cooker was my 1 and thus far only genuinely sketchy Amazon encounter.
* Camelcamelcamel FTW
* Warehouse deal laptops don't get checked for batteries. So it might boot & be good but dies if you pull the plug
* Warehouse deal laptop have a increased chance of thermal issues (bad binning / bad thermal paste / whatever)
* Open box / used is basically untouched like half the time. They rarely show actual signs of wear despite a billion warnings about 1/4 scratch on front and 3/4 on back and what not.
* Pay careful attention to appliances that require both water and electricity. A cheap mini rice cooker was my 1 and thus far only genuinely sketchy Amazon encounter.
* Camelcamelcamel FTW
Amazon probably don't care about the authenticity of the items, only that _they_ are fulfilling and shipping them.
The article talks about fake Hermes bracelets being sold for $25, when a real one is closer to $600. It's obviously a counterfeit. Does Amazon not have any requirement for a human to review a listing before allowing it up for sale?
I remember when Amazon was a relatively safe place to shop, and I didn't have to be as suspicious of what was sold there as I had to be in other places (such as eBay).
But that stopped being the case a while back. I learned the hard way that I can't be so casual about buying from Amazon anymore. This has eliminated a large part of the advantage that Amazon had for me.
But that stopped being the case a while back. I learned the hard way that I can't be so casual about buying from Amazon anymore. This has eliminated a large part of the advantage that Amazon had for me.
Manufacturers need to start issuing UUIDs and some sort of centralized or decentralized API to track ownership. Surprised the high end purse manufacturers haven’t done this.
My wife has run a business for some time on Amazon. It's not big, mainly for baby related products. She's in the process of issuing removal orders for all the stuff in their warehouses and will discontinue the business there. Partly this is due to the numerous cheap knockoffs and imitations of things she worked pretty hard to source quality materials and manufacturing for driving prices into the dirt, partly it's due to Amazon's outrageous fees (FBA can take over 30% of the gross on some items), and partly it's Amazon's inconsistent deactivation of products and demanding she "request approval" to sell them--products she's been selling on Amazon for months or years.
The marketplace on Amazon is a dumpster fire.
The marketplace on Amazon is a dumpster fire.
Why not give the brand owners control of the product pages? They can decide to allow distributors and block counterfeits.
Use eBay if you want to take advantage of the first sale doctrine. At this point it's not worth the risk to Amazon's credibility.
Use eBay if you want to take advantage of the first sale doctrine. At this point it's not worth the risk to Amazon's credibility.
Except that Amazon is no longer the cheapest source for many products. Their outrageous storage and fulfillment fees make most of their pricing higher than local store deals or even manufacturer's own websites.
I feel this problem as both a buyer and a seller. The fake copies are everywhere and it's really hard to fix them. I am forced to buy my competitor's fake product, receive it and then file a complaint that it's fake. That is the only way I have to deter the fake sellers.
As a buyer, prices are also crazy sometimes. I never buy with confidence any more on Amazon having faith about getting the lowest price. I now always double-check Walmart and often Walmart is cheaper!
They seem to be aware of this. Amazon Transparency, if successful, will banish fakes. In its essence it's about provable origin of each item, back to the owner of the brand.
I am a bit glad to see this come from WaPo and not NYT given the implication of ownership....
This must be intentional on Amazons part. Other e-commerce companies like eBay completely removes these sort of counterfeit luxury goods from appearing on their site. Amazon could easily do the same thing if they wanted to. Also eBay has even less seller verification than Amazon. So that excuse doesn’t work.
I'm surprised Amazon hasn't taken action on the dicey quality problems, because I've watched it grow from obscure topic of online conversation to complaints from people I know personally who aren't particularly picky. This must be costing them money, and it isn't getting smaller.
Suddenly, Amazon's massive presence is also Amazon's weak point of entry to encumber the experience.
Chinese sellers flock to Amazon to assert their seller positions in Amazon's marketplace by doing whatever is necessary to ensure product ranking and profit. They have the means, labor, and production at their disposal, which is a competitive advantage that will only further cement their dominance.
Amazon contractors like warehouse workers and delivery agents couldn't give less of a shit about the packaging or delivery of items.
The only thing from stopping sellers from going full-Taobao and just openly selling/promoting every kind of brand-name fake, like replica North Face, Louis Vuitton, and Apple, to US consumers is the legal attitude of IP in the US compared to China.
Chinese sellers flock to Amazon to assert their seller positions in Amazon's marketplace by doing whatever is necessary to ensure product ranking and profit. They have the means, labor, and production at their disposal, which is a competitive advantage that will only further cement their dominance.
Amazon contractors like warehouse workers and delivery agents couldn't give less of a shit about the packaging or delivery of items.
The only thing from stopping sellers from going full-Taobao and just openly selling/promoting every kind of brand-name fake, like replica North Face, Louis Vuitton, and Apple, to US consumers is the legal attitude of IP in the US compared to China.
Newegg deserves your dollar for what they sell, for being an anti-patent troll warrior.
I see this all the time. If I go back in my order history and click on old products often the same "id" now maps to a totally different thing.
For this reason I have basically stopped ordering from Amazon. I find that Walmart has like 99% of the inventory but none of it is fake (some is junk, but it's the junk I asked for). Same prices, same ship speed, no fake shit.
0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus