Alienware Evaluating Customers' Interest in Linux(osnews.com)
osnews.com
Alienware Evaluating Customers' Interest in Linux
http://www.osnews.com/story/24310/Alienware_Evaluating_Customers_Interest_in_Linux
49 comments
If I want a high-powered computer to run desktop Linux I go for HP. They certify and rigorously test a subset of their desktop systems to fully support Linux:
http://h20338.www2.hp.com/enterprise/cache/321143-0-0-0-121....
http://h20338.www2.hp.com/enterprise/cache/321143-0-0-0-121....
I had no idea HP did that.
As much as I admire Alienware computers' design, craftsmanship, speed, etc., and as much as I appreciate the company's interest in linux, I hardly think there's any sense in Alienware linux-based computers, since they're designed for gaming and gaming only.
As much as I admire any manufacturers interest in linux, I hardly think there's any sense in anybody shipping with it. Few people who want to use linux are incapable of spending the 20 minutes to install it themselves, and no matter what distro you pick you'll never satisfy a large portion of your linux using customers.
Just sell me a computer with a blank harddrive. That would be swell.
Just sell me a computer with a blank harddrive. That would be swell.
I want hardware support. I want a set of open specs on a laptop. That way FreeBSD, Debian, Ubuntu, and Slackware could all possibly run on it. I don't want to purchase a system in which if you use their preinstalled version of Ubuntu it works but anything else your hosed.
So when I look at a 'Linux' laptop that is what I'm looking at it for. Can I run FreeBSD with working sound/sleep/wireless?
So when I look at a 'Linux' laptop that is what I'm looking at it for. Can I run FreeBSD with working sound/sleep/wireless?
How common are laptops that don't work well with linux these days? With graphics you're golden: either it's AMD (uncommon) and it has working FOSS drivers out of the box, or it's Nvidia where you have working FOSS drivers sufficient for work needs, and proprietary drivers sufficient for whatever gaming you could possibly be doing on linux. With wifi, you're almost always golden these days. Most laptops seem to have intel or atheros chips, but even the traditionally hellish broadcom cards don't provide much of an issue from what I understand. If anything else in a laptop could cause you any real showstopping trouble I'd be very surprised.
Note also that both of these potential hangups are something you can easily access beforehand. Every site I've used lets you pick your wifi chip from one of a few choices and will at least tell you what the GPU is.
Note also that both of these potential hangups are something you can easily access beforehand. Every site I've used lets you pick your wifi chip from one of a few choices and will at least tell you what the GPU is.
This is wonderful in theory but I've purchased laptops pretty recently (Thinkpad x200e) which I didn't fully vet before I purchased. This laptop had lots of issues. Non Working Wifi, couldn't sleep correctly and had issues with sound.
Having everything work out of the box is not guaranteed. Ubuntu is generally better about it but not all distros have the level of workarounds that Ubuntu does. As far as ACPI is concerned not even Ubuntu is decent.
Having everything work out of the box is not guaranteed. Ubuntu is generally better about it but not all distros have the level of workarounds that Ubuntu does. As far as ACPI is concerned not even Ubuntu is decent.
However they are a part of Dell, so possibly feedback to Alienware will also be used by their colleagues in non-gaming areas.
I wanted an off the shelf consumer RAID1 one desktop. Only Alienware offered something like that. It came with Win7, I am still trying to get Ubuntu to recognize the RAID.
The desktop I bought at BestBuy ~3 years ago came with raid, it's not an uncommon option anymore.
Chances are that both were (effectively) software RAID, though. Real hardware RAID is extremely rare on desktops.
I specifically wanted a hardware RAID and only Alienware had it. But I usually also do not scan Ebay for anything.
It's not hard to put together your own system including a dedicated hardware RAID card. You should even be able to specify the components and have your local computer shop do the assembly.
I don't actually know, it's some Intel stuff that can be configured to 0 or 1 pre-boot.
Most likely you have what's known as "fake" RAID. Really it's just software RAID, with a few things in BIOS to make it easier to implement.
"Would you be willing to pay extra for a Linux-based Alienware system?"
I thought one of Alienware's distinction was their support. Presumably they need to hire support reps for whatever flavor of Linux they support. Also presumably, this is more costly and intensive than hiring someone with an A+ certification. Obviously this is conjecture, but it would explain the 'charge more'.
If it was reasonably priced and decent, I would actually love support for Linux on my pc. My next one will probably be an Alienware (the mx11 netbook), and if they can make things less of a headache, I'm all for it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a geek, I'm a power user, I can fix my own computer. I just don't want to. I just installed the latest version of Ubuntu on my current netbook, and surprise surprise, I need to hack some drivers and recompile the kernel. It's a chore that I just don't want to deal with any more.
More economically, if the price of support works out less than the opportunity cost of doing it myself, then it obviously makes sense to use the support.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a geek, I'm a power user, I can fix my own computer. I just don't want to. I just installed the latest version of Ubuntu on my current netbook, and surprise surprise, I need to hack some drivers and recompile the kernel. It's a chore that I just don't want to deal with any more.
More economically, if the price of support works out less than the opportunity cost of doing it myself, then it obviously makes sense to use the support.
I can't fairly speak to their support quality (having never bought their products, and as someone who sees a fair bit of their money come my way for marketing) but:
- I would have thought most people currently buying linux PCs don't have the same support needs as those buying Windows PCs (generalisation obviously, but lowest common denominator and averages)
- For Dell products at least, support is a paid-for extra that you can add on when buying (at least for OS-level support)
- I wonder how the costs would balance out between needing staff with new skills and saving money on Windows licenses
- I would have thought most people currently buying linux PCs don't have the same support needs as those buying Windows PCs (generalisation obviously, but lowest common denominator and averages)
- For Dell products at least, support is a paid-for extra that you can add on when buying (at least for OS-level support)
- I wonder how the costs would balance out between needing staff with new skills and saving money on Windows licenses
Yes, I would. Why is that weird? It's not just about the money. Linux users are clearly willing to spend more for some things. Even though it's probably a symbolic gesture, the humble indie bundles show that.[1][2]
Not to mention that it will cost Alienware quite a bit of money to start shipping Linux. As I put in the "additional comments" box in the survey: I would pay (up to $150) extra only if every installed hardware component (sans video card) worked properly with stock Linux. That includes webcam and HDMI audio out. Video card is sort of a special case, though :(
1) http://www.wolfire.com/humble 2) http://www.humblebundle.com/
Not to mention that it will cost Alienware quite a bit of money to start shipping Linux. As I put in the "additional comments" box in the survey: I would pay (up to $150) extra only if every installed hardware component (sans video card) worked properly with stock Linux. That includes webcam and HDMI audio out. Video card is sort of a special case, though :(
1) http://www.wolfire.com/humble 2) http://www.humblebundle.com/
Crapware authors pay manufacturers. At least that's the rationale they use to give.
Actually, Alienware would save money. Windows pre-installed does not come for free. A linux based system should be cheaper than a windows based computer.
I never liked to pay for a windows licence by default although I install linux anyway.
I never liked to pay for a windows licence by default although I install linux anyway.
That was my point. If I buy a computer with linux on I expect it to be cheaper than Windows, so it was weird that Alienware are asking people that question.
Linux computers sell in much smaller quantity. This causes increased costs of manufacturing.
How exactly NOT installing windows is a manufacturing challenge?
Packing, documents, install cds. There is also the cost of creating drivers for Linux. Testing the machines before production. You also need to do random sample tests after production.
There are a lot of challenges. Those are simply the ones off the top of my head.
There are a lot of challenges. Those are simply the ones off the top of my head.
Alienware has always been focused on gaming systems. Maybe they want to bundle some form of VMWare?
yes - for good suspend/resume (in laptops), multiple monitor (hot plugging and unplugging doesnt work as well as Win 7) and.... Steam.
I love alienware products very much. Their sheer no-compromise attitude to build the best gaming pc's is known through the world. I personally feel that they should enter linux market by manufacturing specific products, for ex something on the lines of google cr-48 chrome notebook. There is lot of scope in this area and personally as a hacker/programmer I know what kind of hunger we are in. Also a lot of customizations can be done on linux desktops & laptops which the traditional companies like sony,lenovo,ibm,apple don't offer.
//(There is lot to talk, but i think i made all my important points)\\
So I hearty welcome their interest in knowing our interest, but will be seriously disappointed if they didn't enter this market. :)
So I hearty welcome their interest in knowing our interest, but will be seriously disappointed if they didn't enter this market. :)
> Their sheer no-compromise attitude to build the best gaming pc's is known through the world
Sorry, but this is fluff. There are many companies that make specialist gaming PCs, and Alienware aren't number one. Don't get me wrong, they're good (and the vast majority of pre-made "gaming" PCs I've seen were absolutely terrible), but they're no Scan for example.
Sorry, but this is fluff. There are many companies that make specialist gaming PCs, and Alienware aren't number one. Don't get me wrong, they're good (and the vast majority of pre-made "gaming" PCs I've seen were absolutely terrible), but they're no Scan for example.
>Sorry, but this is fluff. There are many companies that make specialist gaming PCs, and Alienware aren't number one. Don't get me wrong, they're good (and the vast majority of pre-made "gaming" PCs I've seen were absolutely terrible), but they're no Scan for example.
If you got the idea from my post that Alienware are the best manufactures of 'gaming pc', then I am sorry. All I was claiming is that their 'attitude' 'in building' the best pc's in the world. And for the sake of debate, name any other company that is as consistent as alienware in offering similar products across a wide spectrum. Please don't say my 'backyard tony' builds a better one than them. One company that is accessible to all kind of people.
If you got the idea from my post that Alienware are the best manufactures of 'gaming pc', then I am sorry. All I was claiming is that their 'attitude' 'in building' the best pc's in the world. And for the sake of debate, name any other company that is as consistent as alienware in offering similar products across a wide spectrum. Please don't say my 'backyard tony' builds a better one than them. One company that is accessible to all kind of people.
Their brand is that they manufacture the best gaming PCs in the world. But if one only pays attention to branding and not realities, you end up thinking Chevy's are indestructible rocks and that Sprite quenches thirst and gives you the power to play sports.
And in case you missed it, GP mentioned Scan as an alternative. I'll add Falcon Northwest.
And in case you missed it, GP mentioned Scan as an alternative. I'll add Falcon Northwest.
I would say they're a little hit and miss actually... their desktop PCs don't impress me. Oversized air-cooled behemoths with inch-thick plastic insulating the components... not a great design, thermodynamically, and aesthetically I find them rather primitive too.
I mentioned Scan due to consistency - they repeatedly win awards, including a boatload for customer service. As far as the "attitude" toward building "the best pc's in the world" goes, I think Scan win hands down for experimenting with water-cooling, peltiers and other advanced tech in pre-made consumer machines.
I mentioned Scan due to consistency - they repeatedly win awards, including a boatload for customer service. As far as the "attitude" toward building "the best pc's in the world" goes, I think Scan win hands down for experimenting with water-cooling, peltiers and other advanced tech in pre-made consumer machines.
My last laptop was from Sager, which is rebranded Clevo. http://system76.com also sells them with Ubuntu pre-loaded. They're absolutely fantastic machines.
If I have $3k to drop and need that much horsepower I'd rather build a small cluster for the price.
You can do MUCH better building for yourself. Sadly, some of us don't have the time.
If you're paying $2-3K for an Alienware machine, you might as well fork over $99 for a Windows OEM.
Edit: A link to the actual survey
http://www.alienware.com/Surveys/AlienSurvey.aspx?Id=2960712...
Edit: A link to the actual survey
http://www.alienware.com/Surveys/AlienSurvey.aspx?Id=2960712...
What I get from buying a "Linux machine" isn't just avoiding purchasing a Windows license. (Those tend to be paid for by all the software bundling, anyway)
What I get is a computer that is tested on Linux and thus is known to have well-supported hardware.
I've had plenty of computers that "work" in Linux, but some of the smaller details (suspend/resume, advanced functions of the audio hardware, etc) would either not work, or would only work after considerable effort.
What I get is a computer that is tested on Linux and thus is known to have well-supported hardware.
I've had plenty of computers that "work" in Linux, but some of the smaller details (suspend/resume, advanced functions of the audio hardware, etc) would either not work, or would only work after considerable effort.
Installing Linux in favor of Windows won't make computers cheaper. Microsoft sells OEM distributors their Windows 7 Home license for around $50. Then, the reason off the shelf computers come bundled with so much bloatware from the likes of McAffee, Symantec, and 100 free hours of AOL is because those companies pay for it. In many cases, pc manufacturers actually return a net positive on installed software.
Geeks optimize everything. 99$ extra for Win (esp. if you don't use it) is 99$ wasted. Many of us are also finicky about taking a stand. A thousand geeks saying no to 99$ extra is a lot of money and a community in itself.
The dollar sign goes before the number.
It's a tax paid to Microsoft. It's a matter of principle.
I would be interested in: a) easier windows refunds and b)GNU-Linux compatible specs.