We can't get enough of audiobooks(theguardian.com)
theguardian.com
We can't get enough of audiobooks
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/jul/13/listen-up-rise-of-audiobooks-steven-poole
224 comments
> Unlike Audible, however, it's easy to game the system by subscribing and quickly unsubscribing.
You can do this on Audible without problems. I have an Audible library of 15 books that I accumulated over a few years through various promotions, never paying more than 33% the normal cost of a subscription.
You can do this on Audible without problems. I have an Audible library of 15 books that I accumulated over a few years through various promotions, never paying more than 33% the normal cost of a subscription.
I have a few issues with how Audible subscriptions work:
• The cancellation process requires many more clicks. If your process is to subscribe → buy → cancel each time, this gets very annoying.
• You can't buy additional credits without outright changing your overall subscription plan.
• If you cancel your plan, you immediately forfeit any unused credits.
• The cancellation process requires many more clicks. If your process is to subscribe → buy → cancel each time, this gets very annoying.
• You can't buy additional credits without outright changing your overall subscription plan.
• If you cancel your plan, you immediately forfeit any unused credits.
> You can't buy additional credits without outright changing your overall subscription plan.
Not sure when the last time you used Audible was, but nowadays (or at least as of a few months ago) they offer to sell you more credits at a pretty decent rate (3 for $35) when you run out.
Not sure when the last time you used Audible was, but nowadays (or at least as of a few months ago) they offer to sell you more credits at a pretty decent rate (3 for $35) when you run out.
So use your credits before you cancel? Also why do you need to buy more credits? You can buy audio books directly for $ once you exhausted the credits. I use credits for audio books that cost more than the price of a credit and $ for audio books that cost less.
I've been in this situation before.
The unsubscribe process ends up taking hours of time because now you need to find 1-5 books to get before you cancel.
It's also frustrating because they won't allow you more than 5 credits, so if you have 5 credits, they will take your monthly payment and give you nothing in return.
Worse still is if you click on the wrong thing on Amazon it will re-activate your audible account automatically. I've had my audible account accidentally re-activated multiple times and not noticed (my amazon email goes to a non-primary email)
All in all I've made many payments with max credits and gotten nothing in return, purchased a ton of books that I'm only partially interested in, and actively cancelled the service at least 3 times (including being forced to waste time shopping for books to complete the task every time)
If you don't see this as a consumer trap, it's because you haven't tried to get out and stay out yet.
The unsubscribe process ends up taking hours of time because now you need to find 1-5 books to get before you cancel.
It's also frustrating because they won't allow you more than 5 credits, so if you have 5 credits, they will take your monthly payment and give you nothing in return.
Worse still is if you click on the wrong thing on Amazon it will re-activate your audible account automatically. I've had my audible account accidentally re-activated multiple times and not noticed (my amazon email goes to a non-primary email)
All in all I've made many payments with max credits and gotten nothing in return, purchased a ton of books that I'm only partially interested in, and actively cancelled the service at least 3 times (including being forced to waste time shopping for books to complete the task every time)
If you don't see this as a consumer trap, it's because you haven't tried to get out and stay out yet.
The limit on credits is what ultimately made me cancel Audible, I wouldn't care if I could keep stacking them up for a year but I go through long phases of not purchasing audiobooks so after a while I noticed I wasn't getting new credits while paying a subscription and realised that... It's their business model, like a gym, Amazon makes more money out of people not using their credits than from using them.
> So use your credits before you cancel?
So what do you do if you're nearing the end of your subscription period, and there aren't any new books you want at the moment? You're forced to subscribe for an additional month.
> Also why do you need to buy more credits? You can buy audio books directly for $ once you exhausted the credits. I use credits for audio books that cost more than the price of a credit and $ for audio books that cost less.
So what do you do if you've already used this month's credit, and you want to buy a second book which is much more expensive to buy in dollars?
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I have run into both of these scenarios with Audible. Neither of them are the reason I don't use Audible—that would be the DRM—but I do find their policies frustrating. Downpour and Libro.fm make it significantly easier to buy what I want when I want it.
So what do you do if you're nearing the end of your subscription period, and there aren't any new books you want at the moment? You're forced to subscribe for an additional month.
> Also why do you need to buy more credits? You can buy audio books directly for $ once you exhausted the credits. I use credits for audio books that cost more than the price of a credit and $ for audio books that cost less.
So what do you do if you've already used this month's credit, and you want to buy a second book which is much more expensive to buy in dollars?
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I have run into both of these scenarios with Audible. Neither of them are the reason I don't use Audible—that would be the DRM—but I do find their policies frustrating. Downpour and Libro.fm make it significantly easier to buy what I want when I want it.
Can anyone recommend DRM-free book providers that for any one book they can optionally bundle a physical book, ebook, and/or audiobook version in one price that's lower than getting each format separately?
I'd love to be wrong, but I really don't think you're going to find this.
Thank you for this list! I found a great price on Downpour (without subscription) for an audiobook for which I've been hunting forever (Ansary's "Destiny disrupted").
Seems like Audible DRM isn't a problem for pirates, 'cause I've seen a lot of their audiobooks on trackers.
Non-tech people doesn't care about DRM in general, they prefer discounts, and here Amazon plays well.
Non-tech people doesn't care about DRM in general, they prefer discounts, and here Amazon plays well.
> Seems like Audible DRM isn't a problem for pirates, 'cause I've seen a lot of their audiobooks on trackers.
I mean, is it ever? Outside of exceptional circumstances like Denuvo, and even that's usually temporary.
> Non-tech people doesn't care about DRM in general, they prefer discounts, and here Amazon plays well.
I could make a similar argument about data privacy. Does that mean we shouldn't bring it up?
But separately, isn't it a bit weird for the article to bring up DRM as a "dark side" of the audiobook industry, without mentioning that DRM-Free audiobooks are readily available?
I mean, is it ever? Outside of exceptional circumstances like Denuvo, and even that's usually temporary.
> Non-tech people doesn't care about DRM in general, they prefer discounts, and here Amazon plays well.
I could make a similar argument about data privacy. Does that mean we shouldn't bring it up?
But separately, isn't it a bit weird for the article to bring up DRM as a "dark side" of the audiobook industry, without mentioning that DRM-Free audiobooks are readily available?
> circumstances like Denuvo, and even that's usually temporary.
Guess it exists a lot of time, just check google.
> without mentioning that DRM-Free audiobooks are readily available?
True. Also, lack of DRM-is-bad advertisement, plus many people don't know about deDRM.
Guess it exists a lot of time, just check google.
> without mentioning that DRM-Free audiobooks are readily available?
True. Also, lack of DRM-is-bad advertisement, plus many people don't know about deDRM.
The very first audiobook I looked for (Eisenhorn series by Dan Abnett, starting with Xenos) was on none of them :(
The free Oldio Audiobook app for iOS plays Librivox books in the same ease and manner of the Audible app, if anyone is interested.
An anecdote from me: Before I discovered audiobooks I rarely read non technical books, especially fictions. I just couldn't find enough time to finish books at a satisfactory pace. What's more, I couldn't enjoy many types of exercises and because of that I just didn't exercise enough. I find the activity of doing those types of exercises by themselves or even with music is too low in information density, that I just became bored after a while.
Now with audiobooks I read many non technical books while I do those types of exercises I couldn't enjoy before. If a book is not great I dont find it a waste of time. The combination of audiobooks and exercising is the right amount of information density for me to enjoy the moment. The result? I exercise much much more now.
Also I started to use the local library for audiobooks. Comparing to the effort of borrowing paper books or device restriction of borrowing ebooks, borrowing audiobooks is just a much better overall experience.
Now with audiobooks I read many non technical books while I do those types of exercises I couldn't enjoy before. If a book is not great I dont find it a waste of time. The combination of audiobooks and exercising is the right amount of information density for me to enjoy the moment. The result? I exercise much much more now.
Also I started to use the local library for audiobooks. Comparing to the effort of borrowing paper books or device restriction of borrowing ebooks, borrowing audiobooks is just a much better overall experience.
Definitely love using the library for audiobooks. I mainly use apps: Axis 360, Hoopla, and Libby (and a little bit of Overdrive). It's been a godsend for reading for me and saved me a ton.
I also use those apps for ebooks, removing social media from my phone, and try to read a few pages here and there when I would have been scrolling mindlessly before.
I also use those apps for ebooks, removing social media from my phone, and try to read a few pages here and there when I would have been scrolling mindlessly before.
I love running with audiobooks. People I talk to are initially thrown off (don't you need high-tempo/"pump" music?) but if you're get into the habit and don't push yourself too hard it's easy to listen to fiction 20-40 minutes at a time while doing cardio. It's positive feedback, too - I look forward to running because I get to listen to my book. And I like my book because (after getting into a routine) running makes me feel good.
Not sure how you exercise to audiobooks, unless maybe its running or something like that. Up-tempo music really helps increase my cadence. I've tried w/ podcasts and audiobooks and am forced to switch back or else just find myself half-halfheartedly working out.
> Not sure how you exercise to audiobooks
If you lift weights, there's a lot of waiting involved between sets. You can listen to stuff while you're idle, and then hit pause as you're doing your reps.
When you're just starting out you may only need 90s rest, but as you progress to higher loads, that will rise to (say) three minutes, and then even longer the more 'advanced' you get.
If you lift weights, there's a lot of waiting involved between sets. You can listen to stuff while you're idle, and then hit pause as you're doing your reps.
When you're just starting out you may only need 90s rest, but as you progress to higher loads, that will rise to (say) three minutes, and then even longer the more 'advanced' you get.
I guess for me I mostly halfheart on the audiobook end. Like if I missed a sentence or two I'll just let it go. So I dont listen to serious books. On the other hand some weight training doesn't really require a fast cadence if not training for explosion I assume. Interestingly for me music sometimes can mess up my own exercise tempo.
I exercise mostly indoors these days at home and most of my workouts are more endurance than cardio (long story) like walking at an incline on the treadmill and using the elliptical at high tension or lifting weights. In all three cases, the machines help me/force me to keep a cadence.
When I did run outside, I had a Garmin GPS Watch (before the Apple Watch was a thing) to force me to stay at my desired pace.
That being said. I can’t cycle without music. That is basically my only real cardio.
When I did run outside, I had a Garmin GPS Watch (before the Apple Watch was a thing) to force me to stay at my desired pace.
That being said. I can’t cycle without music. That is basically my only real cardio.
I find that podcasts or audiobooks can actually help my pacing on longer weekend runs. With music I all too easily get caught up in a good song, let my pace drift faster into unsustainable territory, and wind up paying for it on the back half of the run.
If I may, what kind of exercises paired well with audiobooks? I need a routine, any kind of routine, but like you I find a lot of exercising dull.
Lifting weights.
There's a lot of waiting between sets as you get to higher numbers. See the book Starting Strength by Rippetoe, or /r/fitness.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Rippetoe
He's highly opinionated (on a variety of topics), but his system is pretty good. Note: it's fairly boring, as it's the same five basic exercises over and over. But it gets results and having strength is handy.
Other than that, being able to do a 5K is also useful:
* https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-5k-not-the-marathon...
Humans really don't need that much activity to stay healthy: at some point it's diminishing returns.
There's a lot of waiting between sets as you get to higher numbers. See the book Starting Strength by Rippetoe, or /r/fitness.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Rippetoe
He's highly opinionated (on a variety of topics), but his system is pretty good. Note: it's fairly boring, as it's the same five basic exercises over and over. But it gets results and having strength is handy.
Other than that, being able to do a 5K is also useful:
* https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-5k-not-the-marathon...
Humans really don't need that much activity to stay healthy: at some point it's diminishing returns.
Walking up mountains - a typical Saturday for me is 2 hour drive, 8 or 9 hour walk then 2 hour drive back so usually about one non-abridged audiobook per week.
NB Only slightly odd side effect is I now associate particular mountains with specific topics....
NB Only slightly odd side effect is I now associate particular mountains with specific topics....
My routine with audiobooks:
Cardio: stationary bike, jumping rope, stair climbing. Body weight: some for abs some for lower back. I learned and picked a few from the youtube channel Athlean X. I personally feel we need those exercises to combat the long hours we sit everyday. And stretching! It was so boring before audiobooks I never stretch, now I stretch before and after.
Feel free to experiment to find your own optimal routine, since we have different schedules and access to equipments. I guess the idea is with audiobooks experimenting can be fun too. Even cleaning the house is fun now with audiobooks :D
Cardio: stationary bike, jumping rope, stair climbing. Body weight: some for abs some for lower back. I learned and picked a few from the youtube channel Athlean X. I personally feel we need those exercises to combat the long hours we sit everyday. And stretching! It was so boring before audiobooks I never stretch, now I stretch before and after.
Feel free to experiment to find your own optimal routine, since we have different schedules and access to equipments. I guess the idea is with audiobooks experimenting can be fun too. Even cleaning the house is fun now with audiobooks :D
Mention of AthleanX and no mention of face pulls. I think aside the low back and ab exercises you mention it’s the single best antidote to the rounded-shoulders computer posture.
He recommends them after ever single workout and from doing this the last couple of months has done wonders from my experience.
He recommends them after ever single workout and from doing this the last couple of months has done wonders from my experience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiRAi2KOfRQ
His video on it.
The comments on it are pretty funny actually
His video on it.
The comments on it are pretty funny actually
I second audiobooks on long bike rides. I listened to the Mueller report and several audiobooks on my last bike tour and it was a great way to pass the time.
I cycle with audiobooks - 1-2 books/month. It really helps pass the time during long rides. I've tried with running, but being a more intense and high impact exercise it didn't work for me.
Audiobooks just don't work for me, I would continuously zone out.
I'm curious if people listening to them a lot simply have the same thing going but accept it, or if they are able to maintain focus on the spoken words better ?
Another issue I have with them is that I can't quite skim to a paragraph of interest.
Another issue I have with them is that I can't quite skim to a paragraph of interest.
Audiobooks of non-fiction work for me because I'm listening in otherwise dead time: when I'm driving there is nothing else to do. The average person [US?] spends 50 minutes a day alone in their car. That if you use that time to listen to a non-fiction book and learn something you are a better person. If you zone out and decide you don't care to rewind to where you zoned out it isn't a loss.
I don't think fiction would work this way, too much of the plot depends on what happened on the last page. However non-fiction if you miss point B but get A, D, and part of C you are still better even if you never go back to learn what B was or fully grok C.
I don't think fiction would work this way, too much of the plot depends on what happened on the last page. However non-fiction if you miss point B but get A, D, and part of C you are still better even if you never go back to learn what B was or fully grok C.
I listen to them while going to sleep. That way I enjoy going to sleep every night. I set a sleep timer to turn off the audio after 30 minutes but usually only make it 10 minutes in. The next night I skim through to where I don't recall hearing and start again. Rinse and repeat, I've listened to perhaps a hundred audiobooks in the last several years, love going to sleep, and get to sleep far quicker too.
Currently this feature in Audible is implemented in a way that makes it unusable for me: I add 10 min timer. Almost falling asleep when the time us up, but not fully, so I would like to continue. So I gently press play on my headset. But then the timer is off, so if I fall asleep it will play for hours. So to combat that, I have to bring up my phone and add a new timer. This takes me out of the almost-falling-asleep, and back to square one.
And this is why we need DRM-free audiobooks -- so we can have a competitive market of audiobook player apps rather than being locked into the distributor's app. Luckily, https://libro.fm has a good selection of DRM-free audiobooks. (They also offer their own app, but you don't have to use it.)
Audible files don’t use any special DRM. They’re just encrypted with your user ID and you can convert them to a portable format like mp3 with either a couple terminal commands or one of a few utility software options. I move my Audible books into iTunes.
The fact that we know how to easily break the DRM is fantastic, but it does not make the files DRM Free.
My point is that the files don’t contain DRM; they use a standard encryption format with a key that Audible gives you (your ID.) You could lock your own audio using the same formatting without installing anything special.
It would be DRM if Audible locked the file to their player with a key pairing that only they knew and refused to provide the user or forbade them from accessing via usage terms.
It would be DRM if Audible locked the file to their player with a key pairing that only they knew and refused to provide the user or forbade them from accessing via usage terms.
There were many years during which the only known way to decrypt Audible books was by burning CD's and ripping them back, or exploiting the analog loophole. The encryption may have been standard, but no one had figured it out, and it's not as though Audible told anyone what to do.
Again, it's great that we now know how the encryption works, and everyone should go ahead and decrypt their books. But DVD's aren't DRM Free just because the encryption format was broken a long ago.
Furthermore, Audible's usage terms do restrict you from decrypting your audiobooks! Whether you want to abide by them are of course up to you.
Again, it's great that we now know how the encryption works, and everyone should go ahead and decrypt their books. But DVD's aren't DRM Free just because the encryption format was broken a long ago.
Furthermore, Audible's usage terms do restrict you from decrypting your audiobooks! Whether you want to abide by them are of course up to you.
You’re right, the terms do ask you not to do that. My mistake.
I’m glad it’s at least straightforward to do so now if it wasn’t in the past, even if it’s against the terms.
I’m glad it’s at least straightforward to do so now if it wasn’t in the past, even if it’s against the terms.
That's why I set it for 30 minutes for me. 95% of the time I am asleep by then. 10 minutes wouldn't work for me either.
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As a matter of fact, I keep aa set of udio books on my phone specifically as a sleep aid. I find that listening to a steady voice puts me straight to sleep within a few minutes.
They work for me when I walk, clean or drive. I noticed that when I do anything else while I listen, I just zone out and forget where I was and have to start over or go back.
I haven't listened to audiobooks for a long time because I don't drive much. (Don't commute.) I find for podcasts, listening in the car is about the only time they really work for me. Probably because driving requires a level of attention but usually not too much attention.
When I try to listen to podcasts at home my mind usually ends up drifting. And I can't stand having earbuds with music or anything else in my ears when walking. Separates me from my environment too much.
When I try to listen to podcasts at home my mind usually ends up drifting. And I can't stand having earbuds with music or anything else in my ears when walking. Separates me from my environment too much.
I do one ear when I'm walking or working. I do both if I'm at the gym.
for podcasts, if you use a podcast app like Overcast that supports playback speed adjustments and silence skipping you might find a speed that keeps your attention while still retaining the important stuff.
I wonder if any audiobook apps support that kind of speedup feature?
I wonder if any audiobook apps support that kind of speedup feature?
Personally I have a Goldilocks zone. If I'm just lying on the sofa I start thinking about other things, if I'm doing too much I miss what is happening in the book. However things like walking around town or cleaning the house I really enjoy audiobooks or podcasts.
I walk to and from work - they are perfect for me. My body is engaged so the audiobooks stimulate my brain just enough to allow me to stay locked in.
Same for me. I actually don't want my commute to be shorter than it is now (~30 minutes) because I fall way behind on my podcast queue without it.
I drive a lot and audiobooks are how I pass time. Usually I can stay focused. When I find myself losing focus and unable to get it back I switch to music. Still, I find it a lot easier to focus on audio than text on paper these days. I've listened to 50-100 audiobooks in the last few years where I have finished reading approximately three paper/kindle books. I like the audiobooks keep reading when I temporarily lose focus. Can always rewind a few minutes and try again if I get lost.
It helps to only listen to books I am interested in, can learn from. I don't listen to fiction in general because it's harder for me to follow when someone else is acting out the characters.
It helps to only listen to books I am interested in, can learn from. I don't listen to fiction in general because it's harder for me to follow when someone else is acting out the characters.
Why is your reaction “I zone out therefore audiobooks aren’t for me” instead of “I zone out, therefore it would be a great idea to practice my listening skills”?
I’ve had huge issues with zoning out, wearing down the skip back button, skipping back a minute every two minutes, relistening to the same part five times. But it’s gotten better and better.
Now I often have blocks of 20 minutes where I don’t need to rewind.
Also keep in mind that some styles of writing (and narration!) are harder to follow than others. It might be the book/narrator that’s the issue and not the medium
I’ve had huge issues with zoning out, wearing down the skip back button, skipping back a minute every two minutes, relistening to the same part five times. But it’s gotten better and better.
Now I often have blocks of 20 minutes where I don’t need to rewind.
Also keep in mind that some styles of writing (and narration!) are harder to follow than others. It might be the book/narrator that’s the issue and not the medium
This was a huge issue for me at first, but I seem to have naturally gotten better with practice. But I still have to stop listening semi-regularly when I realize my environment has become too distracting and I’m losing focus.
Early on I did more light non-fiction and self-helpy things because I didn’t mind as much if I missed a line or two.
Early on I did more light non-fiction and self-helpy things because I didn’t mind as much if I missed a line or two.
Same. Also podcasts. The whole medium doesn't work for me at all. I'll try to get into some podcast I'm assured is up my alley, make it a couple minutes, then realize I've been zoning out for a solid ten minutes and haven't processed a word they've said.
Talky video programs are sometimes OK. I can pay attention to them, at least, it's just that most aren't very good.
I can do the dedicated-listening thing to music but the point of podcasts is supposed to be that you can listen to them while doing something else—almost none are worth dedicated listening time. I can't manage that. I miss too much to follow WTF they're talking about, so it's just noise, and I have enough of that as it is and don't need more.
[EDIT] I also hate—hate—having the TV on as "background noise" so maybe that has something to do with it.
Talky video programs are sometimes OK. I can pay attention to them, at least, it's just that most aren't very good.
I can do the dedicated-listening thing to music but the point of podcasts is supposed to be that you can listen to them while doing something else—almost none are worth dedicated listening time. I can't manage that. I miss too much to follow WTF they're talking about, so it's just noise, and I have enough of that as it is and don't need more.
[EDIT] I also hate—hate—having the TV on as "background noise" so maybe that has something to do with it.
I listen to audiobooks while taking long walks. If my mind wanders, I use the "skip back" button (in Audible you can customize the amount of time the skip-back is for). I try to make sure I catch everything because the book gets boring if you lose track of what's going on. Sometimes my mind wanders repeatedly on the same sentence and I just can't catch what was said. Then I try to repeat what they're saying to force my brain to process it, and/or take a short break.
There are two other cases where I'll lose track while walking:
When I need to pay attention to something else like crossing the street, or passing other people on the sidewalk. Just use the skip back.
I have something on my mind that I need to process. Turn off the audio and think quietly while I walk. Sometimes it's just not a good time for books, but music is what I need.
I can't just listen to an audiobook while sitting around. I'll want to do something else, right away.
Sometimes I'll also listen to an audiobook while doing mindless chores, but the book needs to be extra interesting to make up for it, otherwise it's just not worth the distraction.
If a book is really interesting (usually something that I think is going to revolutionize my life) then I'll be listening to it every moment I can.
A little off topic but, I usually get the place I was walking, and the feeling of the book wired together in my brain.
There are two other cases where I'll lose track while walking:
When I need to pay attention to something else like crossing the street, or passing other people on the sidewalk. Just use the skip back.
I have something on my mind that I need to process. Turn off the audio and think quietly while I walk. Sometimes it's just not a good time for books, but music is what I need.
I can't just listen to an audiobook while sitting around. I'll want to do something else, right away.
Sometimes I'll also listen to an audiobook while doing mindless chores, but the book needs to be extra interesting to make up for it, otherwise it's just not worth the distraction.
If a book is really interesting (usually something that I think is going to revolutionize my life) then I'll be listening to it every moment I can.
A little off topic but, I usually get the place I was walking, and the feeling of the book wired together in my brain.
It's definitely a different thing, and I listen to different books than I would read. Fiction rarely works for me, as an audiobook. Douglas Adams is a notable exception. His audiobooks were fantastic, and I assume this relates to those books' origin as radio-dramas.
It depends on context though. If I'm driving and listening, my attention is good enough to follow light nonfiction. If I'm washing dishes or commuting, something more conversational like a podcast is better.
Incidentally, I'd be real interested in audiobooks as supplements to books rather than just alternative mediums. Take a book like Sapiens. I like to read a book like that, using my eyes. But.. if each chapter/topic had a conversation between ynh and colleagues, students or somesuch... It makes for a nice supplement. Read the books take on the paleolithic/linguistic revolution.. and then maybe conversationally talk about alternative possibilities or the history of the idea.
Not limited to college course based books (sapiens was "intro to world history," before it was a book). "Classics" could have book club-like companion audiobooks. I'm all in if someone want to make a companion audiobook to George Orwell's essays, for example.
It depends on context though. If I'm driving and listening, my attention is good enough to follow light nonfiction. If I'm washing dishes or commuting, something more conversational like a podcast is better.
Incidentally, I'd be real interested in audiobooks as supplements to books rather than just alternative mediums. Take a book like Sapiens. I like to read a book like that, using my eyes. But.. if each chapter/topic had a conversation between ynh and colleagues, students or somesuch... It makes for a nice supplement. Read the books take on the paleolithic/linguistic revolution.. and then maybe conversationally talk about alternative possibilities or the history of the idea.
Not limited to college course based books (sapiens was "intro to world history," before it was a book). "Classics" could have book club-like companion audiobooks. I'm all in if someone want to make a companion audiobook to George Orwell's essays, for example.
For me, I have to listen to audio books during the right activities. Mindless things that don't take the thinking part of my brain like doing dishes, driving a car, riding a bike, walking. It absolutely can't be background noise or the only thing I'm doing because I'll either zone out or fall asleep.
Driving works for me, though I no longer drive to work so don't listen to podcasts or audiobooks. A colleague suggested playing mindless games on your phone while listening; the minor focus required for the game gives you enough to do without getting distracted.
Simon Tatham's Portable Puzzle Collection for IOS or Android is an excellent collection of games with variable difficulty. I enjoy Galaxies, Net, Inertia, Pearl, Guess, and Untangle the most.
I found that http://0hn0.com works perfectly for this. (Not affiliated, just a fan.)
First of all I only listen at certain times.
Secondly yes I am also at risk of zoning out but not enough to stop listening.
For example on the treadmill at the gym I have to make an effort to follow the plot sometimes, and other times it's so exciting I forget how long I've been there.
The other time I listen to audiobooks is when going to sleep. And then I do zone out, and fall asleep, that's the point. But it has happened that a book was coming to a conclusion or just so exciting that I end up staying awake for an extra hour or two just to hear it.
So it's not for everyone, just like reading isn't for everyone either. But oh man am I happy for audiobooks. I'm giving my old paper books away by the bag to make room.
Secondly yes I am also at risk of zoning out but not enough to stop listening.
For example on the treadmill at the gym I have to make an effort to follow the plot sometimes, and other times it's so exciting I forget how long I've been there.
The other time I listen to audiobooks is when going to sleep. And then I do zone out, and fall asleep, that's the point. But it has happened that a book was coming to a conclusion or just so exciting that I end up staying awake for an extra hour or two just to hear it.
So it's not for everyone, just like reading isn't for everyone either. But oh man am I happy for audiobooks. I'm giving my old paper books away by the bag to make room.
Try listening after you’ve pushed yourself to exhaustion after intense exercise — body won’t want to do anything but lie there — mind can totally focus on story . Also helps if what your listening to is actually good —- try Andy weirs THE MARTIAN
Same thing happens to me, I have to really pay attention while listening to an audiobook, otherwise I lose the thread.
Also, why are audiobooks 5 times more expensive than their dead-tree version?
https://www.amazon.com/Leviathan-Wakes-James-S-Corey/dp/0316...
https://libro.fm/audiobooks/9781478998938-leviathan-wakes
That's crazy.
Also, why are audiobooks 5 times more expensive than their dead-tree version?
https://www.amazon.com/Leviathan-Wakes-James-S-Corey/dp/0316...
https://libro.fm/audiobooks/9781478998938-leviathan-wakes
That's crazy.
It's a production with actors. Sometimes expensive ones. It's surely along the same continuum that explains why a 90 minute movie or season box set is more expensive than the book it's based on that takes weeks to consume. Wouldn't surprise me that consumers value it higher than "just a book."
Another way to look at it: that's 21 hours of content for $35. Doesn't seem crazy compared to, say, going to the movies or buying a $60 video game that might not even have 10 hours of gameplay.
Another way to look at it: that's 21 hours of content for $35. Doesn't seem crazy compared to, say, going to the movies or buying a $60 video game that might not even have 10 hours of gameplay.
I used to work at Amazon in the physical audiobook publishing world.
For physical audiobooks, most of the NYC publishers priced their audiobooks based on the number of CD's the book would go on. Longer books required more recording and more CD's in a box and would be priced higher. They sold, but not that well because the relative pricing was high. You could see physical audiobook sales crater once a book moved from hardcover to paperback. I did the data analytics and was able to determine the pricing formulas that audiobook publishers were using.
For physical audiobooks, most of the NYC publishers priced their audiobooks based on the number of CD's the book would go on. Longer books required more recording and more CD's in a box and would be priced higher. They sold, but not that well because the relative pricing was high. You could see physical audiobook sales crater once a book moved from hardcover to paperback. I did the data analytics and was able to determine the pricing formulas that audiobook publishers were using.
As Hombre said, it is paying for the voice talent and production costs. also it is a much lower volume market so the fixed costs like that are a more significant hit to the price.
Actual printing of books does not cost a lot. the materials are cheap the processes are very efficient at large volumes. That is one reason why ebooks are not always cheaper than the print versions. the print costs are small.
Actual printing of books does not cost a lot. the materials are cheap the processes are very efficient at large volumes. That is one reason why ebooks are not always cheaper than the print versions. the print costs are small.
libro.fm audiobooks drop to $15 per book if you use their credits. It's a subscription system like Audible.
Unlike Audible, it's much easier to subscribe and quickly unsubscribe. So if you want to buy a book: (1) Subscribe for $15 to get one credit (2) Use your credit to buy a book (3) Unsubscribe.
BTW, libro.fm is DRM Free.
Unlike Audible, it's much easier to subscribe and quickly unsubscribe. So if you want to buy a book: (1) Subscribe for $15 to get one credit (2) Use your credit to buy a book (3) Unsubscribe.
BTW, libro.fm is DRM Free.
I think this is a reason to prefer podcasts. I can miss a few minutes of a podcast and not feel lost because they're mostly fluff anyway.
Agreed. I tend to listen to podcasts and still read books. I find the pacing in books to be built around reading them. With the popularity of audio books I wonder how long it will be until we have ‘books’ specifically done and only released for audio. I know some podcasts are close to this, but they are still not as tight as a well edited book.
I would have thought the issue was more that many books have pacing that takes forever when read aloud. (You generally read faster than it takes to read out loud.)
In any case, you may be looking for radio plays. It's sort of a niche these days but it probably takes better advantage of the medium than simply reading fiction does. (I find non-fiction audiobooks to be very hit or miss. You can't have any real dependency on maps, figures, code/equations, etc. and the content has to be simple enough that you can just go through it at a constant linear pace.)
In any case, you may be looking for radio plays. It's sort of a niche these days but it probably takes better advantage of the medium than simply reading fiction does. (I find non-fiction audiobooks to be very hit or miss. You can't have any real dependency on maps, figures, code/equations, etc. and the content has to be simple enough that you can just go through it at a constant linear pace.)
I read books, and listen to them with TTS software. This was I can switch between listening and reading and keep my place.
Try cranking up the replay speed. I usually listen at 1.5x - 2x. Every now and then I'll hit a great book with a good narrator and slow down to listen.
A recent favourite was The Calculating Stars written and narrated by Mary Robinette Kowal, a former puppeteer and long-time podcaster. Her performance was enthralling and fast-paced, so I listed at 1.0x.
A recent favourite was The Calculating Stars written and narrated by Mary Robinette Kowal, a former puppeteer and long-time podcaster. Her performance was enthralling and fast-paced, so I listed at 1.0x.
I do the same, and listen to most audio books or podcasts at at least 1.33x (this four-thirds factor reduces the listening time by a quarter). A contributing element to determining what speed factor is suitable is what I think of as "information density" in the writing style. With content that requires more digestion, such as The Economist (particularly their more technical articles), I do best processing their excellent audio edition at a simple 1.0x.
Exactly, this is a good point! There are two factors, the baseline speed of the narrator and the complexity of the topic.
Years ago, I attended a Pragmatic Marketing course and the speaker started off by saying he spoke really fast but once you got used to it, you would never be bored or find your mind wandering. I remember that to this day and when I'm speaking in public, I try to keep my pace up.
The problem is that the speed up "breaks" you. Once I started listening to podcasts at higher speeds, I stopped being able to listen to slower-paced podcasts at 1.0x without losing focus.
Years ago, I attended a Pragmatic Marketing course and the speaker started off by saying he spoke really fast but once you got used to it, you would never be bored or find your mind wandering. I remember that to this day and when I'm speaking in public, I try to keep my pace up.
The problem is that the speed up "breaks" you. Once I started listening to podcasts at higher speeds, I stopped being able to listen to slower-paced podcasts at 1.0x without losing focus.
I usually stick with light subjects that don't require a great deal of concentration. If I get lost I'll just jump back 30 seconds or a minute. I've found that dense books don't work as audiobooks. I need to concentrate too much and reread often.
> Audiobooks just don't work for me, I would continuously zone out.
Try listening with an increased playback speed. Make it slow enough that you can still comprehend the book, but fast enough that it requires constant attention to do so.
Try listening with an increased playback speed. Make it slow enough that you can still comprehend the book, but fast enough that it requires constant attention to do so.
I use the zone out to go to sleep at night :-)
But, if I'm walking or driving, it tends to keep my mind more active, alert, and aids my concentration on not only the book, but the walking and driving too.
But, if I'm walking or driving, it tends to keep my mind more active, alert, and aids my concentration on not only the book, but the walking and driving too.
I have this same issue if I try to listen while stationary. I either zone out or doze off. I listen during long cycling rides and have no problem staying focused.
I constant use the "back 30 seconds" button to rewind and repeat sections where I zoned out. They're still great for long car drives, though.
It takes practice. While learning it helps to listen to light material or books you've read before.
Audiobooks are perfect for car rides, if you zone out just remind 30 seconds or so, works great!
Since they mention education but only seem to have mostly bad things to say about audiobooks in that context (unless I missed something, I skimmed that part) I would like to add how this has changed dyslexics relationship with education and with books in general.
My brother is dyslexic and before I think he never read a book ever. This year he got a audio book he wanted as a Christmas gift and he was super happy. That the library of Audio books is expanding is a great thing. I do however agree with the article that the prevelent use of closed formats could be very bad in the long run though. I do think audible is a good deal but I don't like that they use closed formats. There are however still libraries and the increase in audio books can luckily be seen in their available stock as well.
What surprises me with respect to dyslexia is how poor accessibility options are in modern operating systems.
If I understood the research correctly, dyslexia researchers get material improvements in reading speed when they increase the amount of space between words and lines. The gist of the explanation given was that dyslexics basically struggle to separate out the word they're trying to focus on from the surrounding wall of text.
Put another way, while this is fine for normal readers:
If I understood the research correctly, dyslexia researchers get material improvements in reading speed when they increase the amount of space between words and lines. The gist of the explanation given was that dyslexics basically struggle to separate out the word they're trying to focus on from the surrounding wall of text.
Put another way, while this is fine for normal readers:
quick brown fox jumps
over the lazy dog
quick brown fox jumps
over the lazy dog
There is https://www.beelinereader.com/ (unaffiliated, but am a a fan).
Has there been any research/discussion about how this would work for non-dyslexics (I know it would be an option, so not an issue; I'm just curious)? I find myself wanting to go from "quick brown" to "lazy dog" in the second one, even reading it slowly, and I'm not really sure why.
Insofar as I can recollect, sort of, at least if you infer what happens when the space between words or lines is too large. The gist of the issue for a dyslexic reader, as I understood it anyway, is a focus problem.
Picture an ellipse of sorts over the word you're trying to focus on as you read. A dyslexic person will struggle to get the ellipse on that word, and instead gobbles up part or all of the text around it (parts of the words before and after, and parts of the words above and below) - or not enough of it? - leading to fatigue and slow read speed.
If memory serves me well:
- By increasing the space enough, you make it simpler for a dyslexic reader to focus on each word, improving reading speed. (Anecdotally I find web typography more readable with slightly increased line height and word spacing, so methinks it's not just dyslexic readers who benefit.)
- By increasing the space too much, however, you make it harder for readers (dyslexic or not) to follow the flow of text (words become disconnected, if you will, as you've experienced in the second example), and that ends up degrading the reading speed.
- Every reader (dyslexic or not) has an optimal spacial arrangement.
You can kind of see the effect in action by increasing the line height, kerning, and word spacing in an html document. Increase either of those three too much and the text gets harder to read. Increase one or more of them slightly above the default values and the text will be more comfortable to read.
Picture an ellipse of sorts over the word you're trying to focus on as you read. A dyslexic person will struggle to get the ellipse on that word, and instead gobbles up part or all of the text around it (parts of the words before and after, and parts of the words above and below) - or not enough of it? - leading to fatigue and slow read speed.
If memory serves me well:
- By increasing the space enough, you make it simpler for a dyslexic reader to focus on each word, improving reading speed. (Anecdotally I find web typography more readable with slightly increased line height and word spacing, so methinks it's not just dyslexic readers who benefit.)
- By increasing the space too much, however, you make it harder for readers (dyslexic or not) to follow the flow of text (words become disconnected, if you will, as you've experienced in the second example), and that ends up degrading the reading speed.
- Every reader (dyslexic or not) has an optimal spacial arrangement.
You can kind of see the effect in action by increasing the line height, kerning, and word spacing in an html document. Increase either of those three too much and the text gets harder to read. Increase one or more of them slightly above the default values and the text will be more comfortable to read.
I use the build in speech synthesizer on my mac to listen to most long form articles even shorter texts like hn comments. There are the options to configure a keyboard shortcut to read the highlighted text and increase the reading speed.
I've also installed a program to switch languages from the command line.
<<- I do think audible is a good deal but I don't like that they use closed formats. ->>
On the other hand, it's much easier to rip an Audio book, than remove DRM from an ebook.
On the other hand, it's much easier to rip an Audio book, than remove DRM from an ebook.
It's there any service left not covered by some Calibre plugin? I thought they have everything.
If your brother is a student I highly recommend https://learningally.org/link
One problem I have with audible is that because I'm paying around $15/month I feel the need to use my credits on books that cost more than this. So I miss out on shorter books, plays, etc I'd like to read. I have a bunch of books in my wishlist that are around $9 and I won't burn a credit on them.
I guess that's part of their business model... get you to spend money in addition to your subscription.
I guess that's part of their business model... get you to spend money in addition to your subscription.
I've been using Libby to listen to audiobooks from my local library. I often have to wait for anything popular, but otherwise it's been fine. I don't mind having to "return" the audiobooks either--it's a good incentive to actually listen to them!
Stop thinking of it as a 'subscription'. It isn't, it's a purchase model, where they happen to prefer to take regular payments.
You can sign up to Audible, pay the money, spend your credit, then cancel, all within 10 minutes. Then you can do the same thing again, immediately afterwards.
If your credit cost you less than $9, you should buy the title using a credit, not cash.
I'm surprised they've managed to convince so many people to think of it like it's Netflix, where you pay periodically for temporary access to the full library. Audible have never offered rentals, and their model is nothing like the Netflix model at all.
Also, arafalov's points about the 24 month subscription, and the don't-cancel discounts, are great tips.
You can sign up to Audible, pay the money, spend your credit, then cancel, all within 10 minutes. Then you can do the same thing again, immediately afterwards.
If your credit cost you less than $9, you should buy the title using a credit, not cash.
I'm surprised they've managed to convince so many people to think of it like it's Netflix, where you pay periodically for temporary access to the full library. Audible have never offered rentals, and their model is nothing like the Netflix model at all.
Also, arafalov's points about the 24 month subscription, and the don't-cancel discounts, are great tips.
Why don't you just use moneydollars for those titles as you want to start them and save your credits for the bigger books? That's what I've been doing.
Unless you're buying very cheap audiobooks, you'd be better off upgrading to a heavier 'subscription' and spending the extra credits, rather than paying in cash.
I wish someone would make a netflix for audiobooks. I'm guessing licensing is an issue.
Depending on where you are, this may be freely available to you right now through your local library.
Talk to your local library about whether they're on Overdrive / Libby. If so, you can listen to unlimited audiobooks, ebooks, magazines, and comic books 24/7. It's fantastic. It's free. Yay public libraries.
Talk to your local library about whether they're on Overdrive / Libby. If so, you can listen to unlimited audiobooks, ebooks, magazines, and comic books 24/7. It's fantastic. It's free. Yay public libraries.
Also, keep in mind that, depending on where you live, you may be able to carry cards for multiple libraries. In California, for instance, many major public libraries only require state residency. So, while traveling within the state, pick up library cards for as many libraries as you can. When I was living in California, I had library cards for Los Angeles County, Los Angeles City, Santa Monica, San Jose, San Francisco, Berkeley, and Oakland, and I could use the e-resources of any of these libraries.
Additionally, there is a plugin for Firefox called "Available Reads" that allows you to enter your Overdrive account information for your various library cards. Then, when browsing goodreads, the plugin will show you the Overdrive availability of the books you are browsing at all of the libraries at which you are a member, and provide links out to the catalog entry for those libraries' copies of the ebooks/e-audiobooks.
Additionally, there is a plugin for Firefox called "Available Reads" that allows you to enter your Overdrive account information for your various library cards. Then, when browsing goodreads, the plugin will show you the Overdrive availability of the books you are browsing at all of the libraries at which you are a member, and provide links out to the catalog entry for those libraries' copies of the ebooks/e-audiobooks.
Yes. Most publishers want 25-40% of the book's cover price.
ACX/Audible pays 40% for exclusive royalties. So your $30 audiobook will get you $12 in royalties. Amazon makes $3 from your subscription or $18 if someone buys it straight up.
Even at a 25% royalty structure you're still looking at $7.50/audiobook which doesn't work well with an all you can listen/netflix style program as 2-3 books puts the store in the red. Some companies will offer 'all you can listen' but will cut you off if you listen too much.
To get it to work publishers would need to agree to a flat fee for unlimited listens for a period of time. Which doesn't seem likely at this point.
ACX/Audible pays 40% for exclusive royalties. So your $30 audiobook will get you $12 in royalties. Amazon makes $3 from your subscription or $18 if someone buys it straight up.
Even at a 25% royalty structure you're still looking at $7.50/audiobook which doesn't work well with an all you can listen/netflix style program as 2-3 books puts the store in the red. Some companies will offer 'all you can listen' but will cut you off if you listen too much.
To get it to work publishers would need to agree to a flat fee for unlimited listens for a period of time. Which doesn't seem likely at this point.
Scribd's model is pretty close. They've moved from a monthly token system to flat fee for nearly unlimited listening.
Audible has just started doing that, but only for Romance novels. A very specific subset of the market, including some "fun" filter options.
[deleted]
Scribd is an Audible competitor. It's all you can eat for $9 /month (I think). I used it for a while, and really liked it.
I dropped my subscription because my podcast list filled all of my audio time, and my physical books filled the rest of my reading time. But if I ever go back to audio books, Scribd is definitely my first choice.
I dropped my subscription because my podcast list filled all of my audio time, and my physical books filled the rest of my reading time. But if I ever go back to audio books, Scribd is definitely my first choice.
You can buy credits 3 at a time for a discount usually. Also you can suspend your monthly subscription for a few months (and still retain all your books+credits). Finally, you can return titles you don't like up to year after purchase and get your credit back.
If you buy 2-year 24-credit subscription, your per-title cost drops to about that $9. And that means you can wait until 2-for-1 sales and have lots of credits to benefit from.
Also, if you try to unsubscribe, they sometimes offer a much-reduced rate per-book :-)
Also, if you try to unsubscribe, they sometimes offer a much-reduced rate per-book :-)
> Since the 1980s, cognitive psychology has consistently established that recall is indeed better after reading (printed) text instead of listening to it, a conclusion bolstered by a 2010 study (David B Daniel and William Douglas Woody), which found that students did worse on a test if they had listened to a podcast of a scientific article on child cognition rather than reading it.
I wonder if any of these studies allowed the subjects to rewind. I skip back constantly when listening to audiobooks, because I zone out or get distracted. If you were to study my comprehension while taking away that feature, I'm sure I'd score lower than reading with my eyes. Conversely, if you had me read with one of those apps that shows you one word at a time, and didn't let me rewind, I'm sure I would score lower on that than on audio.
I wonder if any of these studies allowed the subjects to rewind. I skip back constantly when listening to audiobooks, because I zone out or get distracted. If you were to study my comprehension while taking away that feature, I'm sure I'd score lower than reading with my eyes. Conversely, if you had me read with one of those apps that shows you one word at a time, and didn't let me rewind, I'm sure I would score lower on that than on audio.
Same here. The 30 second rewind is key.
My 1-hour commute each way is mostly sitting in slow or stop & go traffic on the same freeway. So 95% of my brain is available for comprehension. And I can always rewind if I get distracted by actual driving.
I can honestly say that audiobooks on my commute have changed my life. For whatever reason I just can't find a comfortable enough spot to read an actual book for more than 30 minutes at a time - and even that feels like a chore. It bothered me for 2 decades that I didn't read enough. Now I get 2 hours a day where I am transported into another headspace, inspired, engaged. I actually look forward to my commute.
The only downside is when I come down off Mt. Everest and show up at work - my motivation to do my job is pretty low. :)
My 1-hour commute each way is mostly sitting in slow or stop & go traffic on the same freeway. So 95% of my brain is available for comprehension. And I can always rewind if I get distracted by actual driving.
I can honestly say that audiobooks on my commute have changed my life. For whatever reason I just can't find a comfortable enough spot to read an actual book for more than 30 minutes at a time - and even that feels like a chore. It bothered me for 2 decades that I didn't read enough. Now I get 2 hours a day where I am transported into another headspace, inspired, engaged. I actually look forward to my commute.
The only downside is when I come down off Mt. Everest and show up at work - my motivation to do my job is pretty low. :)
Did y'all know macOS has a built-in text-to-speech system that is pretty decent?
Go to System Preferences > Accessibility > Speech and set a keyboard shortcut, then you can turn any piece of text into an audio book by simply selecting it and pressing the text-to-speech keyboard shortcut. You'll need to set the Speaking Rate pretty high for this to be useful.
It works great for news, blog posts, HN discussions, and amazingly powerful proofreading tool for writers.
More info with screenshots here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mApa60zJA8rgEm6T6GF0yIem...
Go to System Preferences > Accessibility > Speech and set a keyboard shortcut, then you can turn any piece of text into an audio book by simply selecting it and pressing the text-to-speech keyboard shortcut. You'll need to set the Speaking Rate pretty high for this to be useful.
It works great for news, blog posts, HN discussions, and amazingly powerful proofreading tool for writers.
More info with screenshots here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mApa60zJA8rgEm6T6GF0yIem...
While this seems like a good idea, you lose the varying character voices some narrators put into their readings, which helps with immersion.
The Mac line has had text to speech functionality since the very beginning, even being somewhat showcased at the first reveal of the Macintosh by Steve Jobs. https://youtu.be/2B-XwPjn9YY?t=208
Although, I imagine the quality of the reader has greatly improved since 1984.
Although, I imagine the quality of the reader has greatly improved since 1984.
> Although, I imagine the quality of the reader has greatly improved since 1984.
Exactly. I've tries a number of text-to-speech options before and found the voicing to be almost unusable, but the Alex voice in macOS (at least since 10.5) is pretty good. It even does the right context-dependent thing for polysemy cases, e.g. "I live in the mountains" vs. "I went to a live concert".
Exactly. I've tries a number of text-to-speech options before and found the voicing to be almost unusable, but the Alex voice in macOS (at least since 10.5) is pretty good. It even does the right context-dependent thing for polysemy cases, e.g. "I live in the mountains" vs. "I went to a live concert".
There's also a terminal incantation to input a text file and output a multi-hour long sound file of the entire document processed with text-to-speech.
It's about what you'd expect it to sound like... almost unbearable. But maybe the updated Siri voices are better, I haven't tried it for a few years.
It's about what you'd expect it to sound like... almost unbearable. But maybe the updated Siri voices are better, I haven't tried it for a few years.
I believe the Alex voice is not synth, but actual phoneme voice files of a real human.
When I look in `/System/Library/Speech/Voices` and run `du -sh *` I see Alex.SpeechVoice is 877MB so godda be something wav-like in there.
When I look in `/System/Library/Speech/Voices` and run `du -sh *` I see Alex.SpeechVoice is 877MB so godda be something wav-like in there.
I recently started recording some articles I wrote as audio. For the few I have tested, it made a significant difference. Some readers went out of their way to tell me how much they enjoyed the audio version.
Most people get distracted too quickly to finish reading an article. But with audio, the story becomes the distraction that keeps them listening to the end.
Most people get distracted too quickly to finish reading an article. But with audio, the story becomes the distraction that keeps them listening to the end.
I would also prefer to hear your tone of voice because it will tell me a lot that your writing can't. For example, if you're saying something slightly contentious (as is common in tech nowadays!) I would be able to tell if you're joking, trying to provoke me, or are playing devil's advocate solely by your tone and the framing.. whereas in the written form, it could be hard to tell.
On my blog, I auto-generate a narrated version of each article using Amazon Polly. It doesn't sound nearly as good as listening to a person talk (the computerized voice is of about the same quality as Siri or Alexa) but I think its a good middle ground between doing nothing and the investment of time and equipment needed to record and edit my own narrations.
That is a very interesting observation.
It seems that some neural pathways are way shorter over audio ( i guess because we have perfect hearing from birth , unlike vision ), so that the "effort" to read, comprehend and store !text! information is much less.
I guess that's the reason we still have classes in schools. Orally teaching is very very old.
It seems that some neural pathways are way shorter over audio ( i guess because we have perfect hearing from birth , unlike vision ), so that the "effort" to read, comprehend and store !text! information is much less.
I guess that's the reason we still have classes in schools. Orally teaching is very very old.
Many people decide they don't like audiobooks because they don't approach them correctly. For example, pair your audio with your expectations of how you'll listen. If you intend to listen while doing a cognitive task like working or driving in dense traffic, leaping headlong into a brand-new series is likely to make you lose track because you can't keep your focus on the words 100% of the time. For those scenarios sticking with a lighthearted podcast or a book you've read/listened to before is best, and save the new stuff for mowing the lawn or riding public transportation.
If you have a hard time getting through the beginning of some audiobooks as I have, I've found it useful to "prime the pump" by reading the first few chapters of a book and then switching to the audio version once I'm familiar with the names and setting.
If you have a hard time getting through the beginning of some audiobooks as I have, I've found it useful to "prime the pump" by reading the first few chapters of a book and then switching to the audio version once I'm familiar with the names and setting.
Exactly.
I use audiobooks mostly on tedious tasks daily. Like washing dishes, feeding the washing machine, dryer, ironing, etc. Often I tend to bundle those tasks together for a longer listening experience.
Other then that it's great for commute on trains, planes, taxis, or bike or if you go somewhere where waiting is expected.
It takes some time to get into though. I have struggled with it in the beginning so I started with a book I read already some time ago so it wouldn't be such a big deal if I miss something. Now it became almost the only way I consume books for entertainment.
Other then that it's great for commute on trains, planes, taxis, or bike or if you go somewhere where waiting is expected.
It takes some time to get into though. I have struggled with it in the beginning so I started with a book I read already some time ago so it wouldn't be such a big deal if I miss something. Now it became almost the only way I consume books for entertainment.
>I started with a book I read already some time ago so it wouldn't be such a big deal if I miss something.
This is where I’m at in learning a second language. The audiobook will keep marching onwards, so I won’t get road blocked by things I don’t know yet. Because I already know the story, it’s never longer than a minute or so before I manage to catch the plot thread again. It’s also been helpful to read along with the printed book as the audiobook is running.
This is where I’m at in learning a second language. The audiobook will keep marching onwards, so I won’t get road blocked by things I don’t know yet. Because I already know the story, it’s never longer than a minute or so before I manage to catch the plot thread again. It’s also been helpful to read along with the printed book as the audiobook is running.
I moved on to audiobooks from podcasts. I had a hard time developing a podcast habit (mostly around comprehension), but once I got a hang of it and started enjoying the experience, audiobooks were a logical next step.
I've been reading for more than 50 years and listening to audiobooks for the last 30 or so. I find I get different things out of the two formats. When I listened to Lord of the Rings (by the excellent Rob Inglis), there were all sorts of turns of phrase and whole sections that I didn't remember from my previous readings (multiple).
But this article is spot on for me, I can't listen to audio books where I'm trying to learn something while doing anything other than driving. Some non-fiction is also simply too dense to effectively learn from while listening, I want to stop and reflect, re-read and make notes.
I started listening to "The Hard Thing about Hard Things" on Audible and quickly abandoned it for the hard back. My dead tree copy has numerous notes and a few dozen stickies as bookmarks.
But this article is spot on for me, I can't listen to audio books where I'm trying to learn something while doing anything other than driving. Some non-fiction is also simply too dense to effectively learn from while listening, I want to stop and reflect, re-read and make notes.
I started listening to "The Hard Thing about Hard Things" on Audible and quickly abandoned it for the hard back. My dead tree copy has numerous notes and a few dozen stickies as bookmarks.
Audiobook paired with a good set of noise cancelling headphones on an early train is as good as a commute gets.
Your 20 second trip to the (home) office is not a commute. I do those too sometimes :)
Your 20 second trip to the (home) office is not a commute. I do those too sometimes :)
How do you deal with the excruciating slow speed of audiobooks? Even on 2x speed I feel I can do twice as fast by reading with my eyes and get better retention. Anything faster that 2x makes the speech unintelligible, but reading fast feels like things get more coherent.
I’ve heard this a lot. I always listen at normal 1x speed and that usually seems plenty fast as my mind gets busy with visualizing the scenes and characters and filling in bits of detail and whatnot for realism. I wonder if folks who speed it up have their minds similarly engaged or if they’re just having a much lesser experience. To me it’d be like trying to watch a movie on fast forward.
Not necessarily lesser, but different. My brain doesn’t generally visualize anything, but it’s good at building a semantic web that connects cause and effect. If you ask me to describe the physical characteristics of a character in a book that I read, I probably can’t, unless it has an effect on the plot. But I have no real trouble keeping track of what’s going on in books like The Count of Monte Cristo where everyone has half a dozen names and different motivations they’re willing to show to different people.
I also listen to things at 1x speed because I don’t care for the audio artifacts from the speedup process, but I have to be in the right mood for it. If I’m too energetic, the book won’t hold my attention and my mind will wander to other things— I’ll mentally shut it off and have no idea what’s going on when I try to resume the book.
I also listen to things at 1x speed because I don’t care for the audio artifacts from the speedup process, but I have to be in the right mood for it. If I’m too energetic, the book won’t hold my attention and my mind will wander to other things— I’ll mentally shut it off and have no idea what’s going on when I try to resume the book.
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I typically read at 300-500 wpm (I don't really subvocalise - it's not a deliberate choice, I just don't, and don't remember ever doing, when reading at a 'normal' speed), and I'm always visualising scenes and characters (there are some I can distinctly remember, years later). Listening to an audio book at regular speed, I'm often waiting for the next piece of detail, and that pulls me out of it. That is sometimes the lesser experience (for me) - I generally find it much more difficult to build a mental image at the slower pace.
If I really pay attention, I can sometimes 'hear' fragments of words and individual words - it's like a partial subvocalisation (something like "I listen 1x speed plenty fast visual fill detail"). If I deliberately slow myself down (as I often do if I'm particularly enjoying a certain section, or if a section is particularly intricate), I subvocalise as normal, but at the same time I lose the visual aspects of picturing a scene. I start to hear the prose, but lose the visualisation.
If I really pay attention, I can sometimes 'hear' fragments of words and individual words - it's like a partial subvocalisation (something like "I listen 1x speed plenty fast visual fill detail"). If I deliberately slow myself down (as I often do if I'm particularly enjoying a certain section, or if a section is particularly intricate), I subvocalise as normal, but at the same time I lose the visual aspects of picturing a scene. I start to hear the prose, but lose the visualisation.
That may be the difference though. I'm happy to listen at 2x, but also when I'm reading a scene description which is not relevant to the plot, my brain goes "boooring!" and zones out for a few paragraphs.
I guess we both get what we want our of the experience, but at different speeds.
I guess we both get what we want our of the experience, but at different speeds.
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Why are you in such a rush? Relax and enjoy the experience. Would you go to an opera or play and then ask them to rattle through it as quickly as possible so you can get out again?
For me, it's part of the experience. Going too slow for anything written as prose is detrimental - I feel, and this may be a strange way of putting it, 'bogged down in words', and I'm not actually experiencing the narrative. I feel like I'm spending too much time on "He said" and other connecting words, which pulls me out of the world.
It's one of the reasons I prefer books to audiobooks - I can slow down and enjoy the speech/intricate descriptions, but virtually skip over 'functional' words.
It's one of the reasons I prefer books to audiobooks - I can slow down and enjoy the speech/intricate descriptions, but virtually skip over 'functional' words.
I watch YouTube (and downloaded) videos at 1.75+ playback, because I _think_ that some videos are slowed down before being published.
I'm not sure why this is done - whether it is to make the video easier to follow for non-native speakers, or to give a more 'authoritative' feel (slower speech = more confidence etc?), but I find such videos unbearable to watch at x1 speed.
So for me it's not about rushing and not enjoying the experience. It's about listening to it at a speed which is bearable: and hence enjoyable.
I'm not sure why this is done - whether it is to make the video easier to follow for non-native speakers, or to give a more 'authoritative' feel (slower speech = more confidence etc?), but I find such videos unbearable to watch at x1 speed.
So for me it's not about rushing and not enjoying the experience. It's about listening to it at a speed which is bearable: and hence enjoyable.
It's always because of the ads.
Whenever you're wondering why the video is too long, or why the author is somewhat rambling around the point, or why they include those "like and subscribe" sections in every video (sometimes at the beginning, because you'd close the tab otherwise), the answer is always to find that sweet spot that accommodates the ads. It's also why channels tend to upload videos of similar length, regardless of the topic. Sometimes they have to cut the script short, other times they have to find a way to lengthen it.
Whenever you're wondering why the video is too long, or why the author is somewhat rambling around the point, or why they include those "like and subscribe" sections in every video (sometimes at the beginning, because you'd close the tab otherwise), the answer is always to find that sweet spot that accommodates the ads. It's also why channels tend to upload videos of similar length, regardless of the topic. Sometimes they have to cut the script short, other times they have to find a way to lengthen it.
> why they include those "like and subscribe" sections in every video (sometimes at the beginning...
Warren Huart does this end of the video, and I now really appreciate it when he and others do it. I mostly watch YouTube on my Samsung TV, and it takes forever to navigate through the YouTube app's onscreen menus with my remote control to find the Like button. If they don't talk for long enough at that point, I get kicked out of the menu and dumped into an ad & another autoplay before I get time to click their like button.
If the YouTube algorithm has any sense (probably not), a Like after someone has just watched the entirety of a 20 minute video at normal speed should have more weight than someone who clicks Like in the first 2 seconds of clicking play.
Warren Huart does this end of the video, and I now really appreciate it when he and others do it. I mostly watch YouTube on my Samsung TV, and it takes forever to navigate through the YouTube app's onscreen menus with my remote control to find the Like button. If they don't talk for long enough at that point, I get kicked out of the menu and dumped into an ad & another autoplay before I get time to click their like button.
If the YouTube algorithm has any sense (probably not), a Like after someone has just watched the entirety of a 20 minute video at normal speed should have more weight than someone who clicks Like in the first 2 seconds of clicking play.
> I _think_ that some videos are slowed down before being published
It's to stretch the videos that are just under 10 minutes to longer than 10 minutes so they can add mid-roll ads.
It's to stretch the videos that are just under 10 minutes to longer than 10 minutes so they can add mid-roll ads.
Depending on the book content, its not "I'm in a rush", but just 'the normal speed that I read and gets the subconscious-movie effect in my head without sub-vocalisations'. And that's some multiple of vocal-speed.
If we use walking as an analogy, sometimes people really do need to slow down and smell the roses, but certain speeds of walking for certain body types/fitness levels are just genuinely awkward/painful...
If we use walking as an analogy, sometimes people really do need to slow down and smell the roses, but certain speeds of walking for certain body types/fitness levels are just genuinely awkward/painful...
As a fairly proficient ESL guy 1.5x is the fastest I can do for audiobooks. Most books are read slowly on purpose I think so they’re easiest for most people to understand and everything is enunciated perfectly. Speeding up makes them feel like normal talking speed.
Mind you audiobooks have less filler than natural speech so they’re a little more information dense than someone shooting from the hip.
I find the best way to enjoy them is on a nice run where the situation holds me captive and I can’t retreat into a more distractive media.
In my experience audiobooks can’t keep my attention, not fast paced enough, and I pull out my phone. As soon as that happens I no longer hear/process the audiobook.
But if I’m running it’s juuuust perfect enough to keep my attention and sort of embed the ideas into my subconscious even if I’m not actively listening.
It’s a lot like speed reading in that way. With speed reading I always felt like I was rushing and had no idea what I’m reading. But ask me questions and I could recap the information back flawlessly.
However, I purposefully avoid speed reading fiction because it detracts from the experience. You get the info, but you lose the feel.
Mind you audiobooks have less filler than natural speech so they’re a little more information dense than someone shooting from the hip.
I find the best way to enjoy them is on a nice run where the situation holds me captive and I can’t retreat into a more distractive media.
In my experience audiobooks can’t keep my attention, not fast paced enough, and I pull out my phone. As soon as that happens I no longer hear/process the audiobook.
But if I’m running it’s juuuust perfect enough to keep my attention and sort of embed the ideas into my subconscious even if I’m not actively listening.
It’s a lot like speed reading in that way. With speed reading I always felt like I was rushing and had no idea what I’m reading. But ask me questions and I could recap the information back flawlessly.
However, I purposefully avoid speed reading fiction because it detracts from the experience. You get the info, but you lose the feel.
I guess point is that you can do something else while listening, like I commute with a car so reading a book is out of the question, but listening to audiobooks and podcasts fits well.
Besides commuting you can do other things like house chores.
For me audiobooks have opened reading in a whole new way. I used to think that I was dyslexic, but I've since discovered that the right term is subvocalization. I was slow reader as a kid and never grew out of it. So reading is really slow for me, I've tried to work on it, but in the meanwhile I might as well be listening audiobooks.
Besides commuting you can do other things like house chores.
For me audiobooks have opened reading in a whole new way. I used to think that I was dyslexic, but I've since discovered that the right term is subvocalization. I was slow reader as a kid and never grew out of it. So reading is really slow for me, I've tried to work on it, but in the meanwhile I might as well be listening audiobooks.
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Perhaps LPCnet may be of use to you. If is a neural net for generating speech based on google's research. The demonstrate using it to intelligently slow down or speed up audio. perhaps you will find 3x audio more natural with it. maybe a smart accelerator could be made that speeds up quiet parts more.
https://people.xiph.org/~jm/demo/lpcnet/
https://people.xiph.org/~jm/demo/lpcnet/
It depends on the player.
Audible's 3x is intelligible even for a non-native speaker like me. Smart Audiobook Player's 3x is atrocious.
Audible's 3x is intelligible even for a non-native speaker like me. Smart Audiobook Player's 3x is atrocious.
Just don't rush it, and enjoy the experience. You won't be able to read every book in existence anyway.
As a fast reader myself, I can't get myself to listen to audiobooks or podcasts while sitting in one place.
When I'm walking, it doesn't bother me as much, so I listen to them on my morning/evening walk in the park. I finished several books this way.
I listen at 0.8x, especially when listening to fiction. Reading is certainly much faster, but I tend to enjoy more while listening to soothing, meandering speech by the voice actor.
Interesting, I do occasionally listen to non-fiction books at 0.9x but fiction I normally listen at 1.25x.
Some of us read as slowly if not slower than we speak.
Also, different audio systems read at different speed. Have you tried pocket at 2 or 2.5 x? Still too slow?
Also, different audio systems read at different speed. Have you tried pocket at 2 or 2.5 x? Still too slow?
I find that the slow speed helps not missing the logical thread the way I consume audio books, by always doing something else at the same time.
If you're listening on Libby, you can long-press on the speed icon and drag down.
That'll get you all the way up to 3x. It's fantastic.
That'll get you all the way up to 3x. It's fantastic.
Listen to more challenging content. I can only listen to dense, information rich texts, anything else feels like a waste of time.
I've never found such books as audiobooks. Care to share a few?
The selection is limited but they're around. Most recently I've listened to Robert Greene, Joseph Campbell, Walter Isaacson, Jan Swalford, Peter Frankopan, among others. My favorite in the last year was "The Rise and Fall of American Growth" by Robert J Gordon. There are a lot of classic philosophy texts as well, Seneca, Plato, etc. And various useful books on marketing and how to sell, since that's a skill I've been working on.
One of the ways I find books is to think of something I'm interested in then go to https://hackernewsbooks.com/ and search for recommendations. The best books I've read recently were ones I can across on HN. If I find recommendations then I'll go on audible and search for an audiobook version. I don't always find them, maybe 1/10 are available, but it's been a useful tactic in general.
One of the ways I find books is to think of something I'm interested in then go to https://hackernewsbooks.com/ and search for recommendations. The best books I've read recently were ones I can across on HN. If I find recommendations then I'll go on audible and search for an audiobook version. I don't always find them, maybe 1/10 are available, but it's been a useful tactic in general.
I personally just learn to enjoy it. Listening at 1.3x max.
For me audiobooks are a way more relaxing alternative to podcasts in that they strip away the need to choose what to listen to for several times as long and, usually, once I'm in the mood to listen to one I can stay in that mood for a long time.
Listening to Robert Caro's gigantic history books a couple of years ago war an extremely pleasant experience. Literally a month or two of no podcasts at all and just this pair of extremely deep well written biographies.
Listening to Robert Caro's gigantic history books a couple of years ago war an extremely pleasant experience. Literally a month or two of no podcasts at all and just this pair of extremely deep well written biographies.
I just listen to podcasts in the order they get published. Alternatively, you can pick a podcast that started long ago, and just binge on the archive - Mike Duncan's work alone is enough to fill probably three or four months.
That said, I listened to the Power Broker, and fully recommend it.
That said, I listened to the Power Broker, and fully recommend it.
I highly recommend binging the back catalog of Hardcore History[1] if you haven't already. Yes, you have to pay for the older episodes, but it's a tremendous amount of really great content. My favorite individual episode is "Prophets of Doom": https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-48-prophe...
[1] https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-compilati...
[1] https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-compilati...
Yeah, I've heard many hours of Hardcore History, but while it's certainly good, Dan Carlin's style - both the writing and the speech - frankly tire me a bit. There are too many times when it's too over the top. I much prefer Mike Duncan's or Mark Painter's styles.
but a podcast has a flow that makes you inherently aware of how much time is passing unless it has absurdly long and flexible runtimes (and I do listen to some 4+ hour podcasts weekly). Something like 99% Invisible is amazing but the condensed 15 minute episodes and you constantly listening to a loop of intros and closers can wear after a while.
iirc the History of Rome was really good at keeping the intros, exits, sponsored content and all that stuff as minimal as possible though, I definitely binged it but even then the fact that it was originally presented in these 15 minute chunks made it kind of exhausting at points.
You need to get onto the LBJ ones! Not quite as good but it's pretty damn good.
iirc the History of Rome was really good at keeping the intros, exits, sponsored content and all that stuff as minimal as possible though, I definitely binged it but even then the fact that it was originally presented in these 15 minute chunks made it kind of exhausting at points.
You need to get onto the LBJ ones! Not quite as good but it's pretty damn good.
Certain podcast apps (I use Pocket Casts) will let you start a podcast at a certain timestamp. I've found that really helpful to skip the intros of the podcasts I listen to regularly.
Since the beginning of this year I’ve listened to 9 audio books. That is 9 more books then I read in the past 5 years. I like the idea of reading but prioritizing time for it meant that it took months to complete a book, if I completed it at all. Now I listen while I walk to work, do the dishes, drive, etc.
I know how you feel! I listened to "Do Android Dream of Electric Sheep" in less than a week and finished "Game of Thrones" in 3 weeks because of audio books.
Before that I could barely finish a short book in a month, and a large one like "Game of Thrones" would take me most of a year to be honest.
Blinkist sounds interesting, even if it feels more like cheating than regular audio books. I already feel a bit guilty saying I read book X, when I really listened to it.
Their website doesn’t explain much and the reviews are vague as usual. Does anyone have a personal reference for it, or know how it works? Is it real people reading or a computer voice? I presume the shortened texts are using something like https://smmry.com/
Their website doesn’t explain much and the reviews are vague as usual. Does anyone have a personal reference for it, or know how it works? Is it real people reading or a computer voice? I presume the shortened texts are using something like https://smmry.com/
I signed up for the free trial last week. To answer your questions...
a) Is it real people/computer voice? It's real people (seems like pretty good speakers thus far.) b) The shortened texts are well written. They don't appear to be computer generated.
I'm still not sure I'll get a paid subscription. I find it a good way to ingest certain types of information -- psychology & personal development books always seem bloated with case stores like "When Bob first visited my office he seemed anxious and depressed...." that I'm generally impatient with (just get to the point!). But after listening to several in a row, my mind starts to wander. Not sure why.
And in some cases, I find the resulting summarizations vacuous. I don't know whether that's because the underlying material was equally vacuous or whether something was lost in translation. (Obligatory reference to Monty Python's Summarize Proust Competition: http://www.montypython.net/scripts/proust.php)
a) Is it real people/computer voice? It's real people (seems like pretty good speakers thus far.) b) The shortened texts are well written. They don't appear to be computer generated.
I'm still not sure I'll get a paid subscription. I find it a good way to ingest certain types of information -- psychology & personal development books always seem bloated with case stores like "When Bob first visited my office he seemed anxious and depressed...." that I'm generally impatient with (just get to the point!). But after listening to several in a row, my mind starts to wander. Not sure why.
And in some cases, I find the resulting summarizations vacuous. I don't know whether that's because the underlying material was equally vacuous or whether something was lost in translation. (Obligatory reference to Monty Python's Summarize Proust Competition: http://www.montypython.net/scripts/proust.php)
I have been using Blinkist on a daily basis for the past few months.
I'm pretty satisfied with the subscription as it's a great time-saver, in 15mins I either find out that:
- the book is not worth spending hours of actual reading
- I enjoy the summary and it makes me want to read the whole book
- or I like the summary, copy the highlights into personal notes, and carry on
Real people are both reading and summarizing the books, so it's much higher quality than the automatic shorteners.
I'm pretty satisfied with the subscription as it's a great time-saver, in 15mins I either find out that:
- the book is not worth spending hours of actual reading
- I enjoy the summary and it makes me want to read the whole book
- or I like the summary, copy the highlights into personal notes, and carry on
Real people are both reading and summarizing the books, so it's much higher quality than the automatic shorteners.
That.
And even without trendy 'blinkist' I used to take a similar approach by first reading some prepatory materials before investing time to read the book. Listening to an audiobook is just another way for me to complement but no replacement.
I would not say this is fool proof.
You will never be able to get the "key takeaways" of every book by reading some summary. Sometimes the key takeway might be the way a book is written, how something is repeated while other things are left out that are most valuable.
Likewise quotes that once meant nothing to you, you will only understand after studying material by the other in depth, etc.
just some thoughts.
And even without trendy 'blinkist' I used to take a similar approach by first reading some prepatory materials before investing time to read the book. Listening to an audiobook is just another way for me to complement but no replacement.
I would not say this is fool proof.
You will never be able to get the "key takeaways" of every book by reading some summary. Sometimes the key takeway might be the way a book is written, how something is repeated while other things are left out that are most valuable.
Likewise quotes that once meant nothing to you, you will only understand after studying material by the other in depth, etc.
just some thoughts.
My company gives us free subscription to GetAbstract.com, on which you get summary of books(the app has audio feature, narrated by real person).
graphic audio presents the stormlight archives
greatest listening experience.ever. epic fantasy on another level
greatest listening experience.ever. epic fantasy on another level
If you enjoy the Stormlight Archives I would also highly recommend the Lightbringer series of books by Brent Weeks.
I won't spoil anything besides saying that the series has a number of really memorable plot twists and a very interesting magic system.
Simon Vance does a fantastic job narrating the audiobooks and I'm eagerly anticipating the fifth and final book of the series which is due for release in October.
I won't spoil anything besides saying that the series has a number of really memorable plot twists and a very interesting magic system.
Simon Vance does a fantastic job narrating the audiobooks and I'm eagerly anticipating the fifth and final book of the series which is due for release in October.
I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't like audio books. I also feel it's faster to just read a real book, and I retain a lot more information when I read.
You're not the only one. I don't dislike audio books, but compared to text it's just not as immersive. When reading a a good text book I get transported into it. I visualize whatever author wrote and eventually it's not even reading - it's more like a flow of information.
With audio books I don't get that - which is OK for some types of books, but definitely not something I'd pick for fiction.
With audio books I don't get that - which is OK for some types of books, but definitely not something I'd pick for fiction.
I listen to audiobooks a lot and I generally love them but sometimes I do miss the ability to easily skip back and re-listen to a particular short section again - yes you can skip back a fixed amount easily but that takes you to a random point in the text.
Local, sentence/paragraph level, navigation in audiobooks is really bad.
Local, sentence/paragraph level, navigation in audiobooks is really bad.
This is something I've noticed with podcasts as well. The tools and players available are atrocious and I don't understand why everybody puts up with them.
Which players have you tried?
I find the players have lots of microfeatures I wouldn't even have thought of - like if I've stopped playing a podcast in Pocket Casts & pick it up a couple of hours later, it rewinds a few seconds so I get the context of what I was listening to again.
Pocket Casts is nowhere near as good since the NPR acquisition, and probably not as good as Overcast or Castro or any iPhone clients, but I definitely wouldn't say it's atrocious.
I find the players have lots of microfeatures I wouldn't even have thought of - like if I've stopped playing a podcast in Pocket Casts & pick it up a couple of hours later, it rewinds a few seconds so I get the context of what I was listening to again.
Pocket Casts is nowhere near as good since the NPR acquisition, and probably not as good as Overcast or Castro or any iPhone clients, but I definitely wouldn't say it's atrocious.
All of them. And most of them are glorified radios. The few that do expose functionality for navigation and bookmarking within a podcast episode (beyond rewinding or FF by x seconds), they make it way too unintuitive to use and make you use too many clicks to use it. And there's almost no functionality around saving and organizing the episodes you've listened to. Hell, most podcast apps don't even provide a way to check your played history in a sane way (if at all). Where in the fuck is the Evernote of podcast apps? I want to tag episodes, organize them into folders, link different episodes, bookmark certain spots of an episode, tag the bookmarks, add comments/notes at certain times AND TAG THESE AND ORGANIZE THESE, etc.
Okay, I admit - that is an absolutely brilliant idea. What you've described is exactly how I use Pocket with blog posts (highlighting, searchable note taking, tagging) but for podcasts. Count me in.
I know Overcast made some attempts at timecode bookmarking & sharing snippets, but I don't think their approach is the solution. (I'm on Android so I've never got to try it.)
https://www.cultofmac.com/622288/how-to-share-podcast-clips-...
I know Overcast made some attempts at timecode bookmarking & sharing snippets, but I don't think their approach is the solution. (I'm on Android so I've never got to try it.)
https://www.cultofmac.com/622288/how-to-share-podcast-clips-...
Yeah. That interactive, metatextual layer is missing for me for podcasts. I have a decent process (that I'm still refining) for saving and organizing websites/articles/books/pdfs/notes, and if I'm looking for something, I can find it reasonably quickly, but podcasts are this blackhole where information and context go to get lost.
> https://www.cultofmac.com/622288/how-to-share-podcast-clips-....
Okay, that feature is pretty damn cool. Add that to my must-haves in my dream podcast app.
> https://www.cultofmac.com/622288/how-to-share-podcast-clips-....
Okay, that feature is pretty damn cool. Add that to my must-haves in my dream podcast app.
"Stop Listening"
"Stopped"
"Go back to where Lisa enters the cave"
"Rewinding"
"....."
"Stopped"
"Go back to where Lisa enters the cave"
"Rewinding"
"....."
Which sounds great apart from the fact I have an accent that makes voice control work about 50% of the time, so any attempt by me to use it rapidly descends into a comedy scene with me doing a Malcolm Tucker impersonation.
You may enjoy this sketch from Burnistoun, a Scottish TV programme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAz_UvnUeuU
Yeah, I am Scottish so I was carefully avoiding linking to that sketch - it is far too accurate!
I get far more engrossed with books than listening to audio plus listening to a story makes me feel tired which I think is a hangover from bedtime stories as a kid.
I suspect that a lot of people who prefer audio books don’t get the “movie in your head” effect from reading fiction, and have a relatively slow reading speed. If you can read quickly, listening to audio on normal speed can be as frustrating as watching someone type using hunt and peck...
I just can't listen to audiobooks myself. My brain seems to shut off or wander and I notice that I haven't been listening to the thing for the past twenty minutes. It's cool that it's available for people who enjoy it, but I don't get why they don't work for me. The only one I managed to stick with is Hitchhiker's Guide, but only because 1) I know the books inside and out and 2) the voice acting fits the humour so well.
I'm not usually an 'audiobook' guy, but, currently listening to How to Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan, which is read by him. He's an excellent speaker/reader and it's nice to hear him read it exactly how he meant it to be read.
I've been a fairly heavy user of Audible until this spring when I started to go back to regular, physical books. If you're reading books with lot's of graphs or pictures in them, the Audible experience is kind of subpar. Also, the experience of "browsing" audiobooks is kind of clunky and there's effectively no way to search the book.
I will say that the audio version of The Economist is pretty great. If an article has pictures or graphs in them, I can just open the article from the app and listen to it simultaneously. I hope more magazines/newspapers would add similar functionality to their offering.
I will say that the audio version of The Economist is pretty great. If an article has pictures or graphs in them, I can just open the article from the app and listen to it simultaneously. I hope more magazines/newspapers would add similar functionality to their offering.
I'm always reading/listening to two books at once, one audio-book, and one in a visual format. A lot of technical or older books aren't available in any electronic or audio format, and so I want to always be in the habit of reading visually so that I can accommodate those.
Listening to books is just too slow. For the right kind of book with a slower narrator, I might be able to listen at 2x or 2.5x and still understand it. But why not just devote my full attention, read it at 8x and probably have better recollection than from passive listening?
Other books require more work and I probably read at 1x speed with frequent pauses and re-readings. I'd never understand those if they were audio.
The one time I might go for an audio book is when outside exercising or commuting, but that's when I listen to music or podcasts.
Other books require more work and I probably read at 1x speed with frequent pauses and re-readings. I'd never understand those if they were audio.
The one time I might go for an audio book is when outside exercising or commuting, but that's when I listen to music or podcasts.
Have a try to synthetic speech books, I use espeak to create my audiobooks at 1000wpm for non-technical books.
Totally relatable. Plus somehow I have noticed that I work out for more time while listening to audiobooks when compared to working out with blasting music. I use this service called auditus.cc to convert all my epubs. And the fun thing is the reading voices available are pretty varied so if I start getting bored from one voice, I make sure I use another one next time.
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Not only audiobooks. Do you have „radio theatre”? In my country we have it - it’s an awesome form.
It's one thing that I love to get a hold of from the BBC, things like the HHGTTG radio play and others are just fantastic. I'm not fully aware of a lot of others but there's some podcasts like Welcome to Nightvale and the other productions that the group does that are also wonderful. I think that's where a lot of those kinds of things have ended up because it can reach a much larger audience and is easier to fund because of that (from ads and from sales and donations depending on how they do it).
In Poland there is a special division of the public radio (Teatr Polskiego Radia) producing the auditions. Hard to find a weak or uninteresting production. Unfortunately not many new are appearing recently. Some commercial radios tried to copy the form and produce something similar but it was nowhere near the artistic and quality level of PR’s (ended up with something loud and vulgar).
BBC Sounds has a load. It's hard to sort out the "full cast audio" from the other audiobooks with a single reader.
Here's Terry Pratchett's "Good Omens": https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b04knthd
Here's a list ordered by date: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/categories/drama?sort=-availabl...
I don't know if these are geo-blocked.
Here's Terry Pratchett's "Good Omens": https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b04knthd
Here's a list ordered by date: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/categories/drama?sort=-availabl...
I don't know if these are geo-blocked.
There’s lots of recordings around from decades ago, but not much is produced for broadcast now. Sometimes, you find a “full cast” audiobook, where every character has a different reader; That was my first introduction to both Dune and Game of Thrones
Can you tell me where to find these? especially "Dune".
I try to bring my kids to quality SF and this could be much easier than the actual Dune books, as they are not quite easy.
I try to bring my kids to quality SF and this could be much easier than the actual Dune books, as they are not quite easy.
I got both of those from Audible years ago, looks like I was misremembering about GoT being full-cast, but here’s the entry for Dune:
https://www.audible.com/pd/Dune-Audiobook/B002V1OF70?qid=156...
https://www.audible.com/pd/Dune-Audiobook/B002V1OF70?qid=156...
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The trend reminds me of McLuhans literate and tribal man
https://www.nextnature.net/2009/12/the-playboy-interview-mar...
https://www.nextnature.net/2009/12/the-playboy-interview-mar...
I didn't start using audiobooks until this year, but they've markedly improved my ability to fall asleep quickly. It used to take at least an hour, and now I'm usually out within 30. Except when I get to the climax :p
I love audiobooks (and anything media that comes with audio too) for learning languages. Inflection and hearing what's written is hugely beneficial to understanding, and it's much more memorable for me.
I started buying audiobooks during my time in the Bay Area with round trip daily commutes of 2.5 hours.
Now I’m in a car for just over 3 hours a week and I’d rather lounge around with my e-ink Kindle.
Now I’m in a car for just over 3 hours a week and I’d rather lounge around with my e-ink Kindle.
I am hopelessly addicted to audiobooks. I’m much too hyper active an attention deficit to read these days, Unmedicated by the way, seems like an interesting idea worth pursuing
For me audio books are great when I listen to a book which I have read long time ago. This way I can revise my favorite books, and I wont worry if I miss some sentences.
i personally dont like them very much as they tend to force the pace and you might miss quite a bit. im a slow reader who tends to process everything. unless its boring then i just skim. you can't really do that with audiobooks. plus they are quite expensive.
I read a lot of audiobooks on YouTube recently. Fascinating how a service so public can be so full of copyright violations. I guess I know now why upload filters are the new big thing.
Though, sheepishly, trying to listen to audiobooks on Youtube is why I ended up paying for Youtube at one point: so I could turn my phone screen off while listening. Maybe Youtube knows this. ;)
Yes, listeing to stuff while screen is locked seems to be one of the motivations for teople to pay for a youtube subscription (apart from getting rid of Ads of course).
As a VoiceOver user, I dont care so much. Tripple-tapping with three fingers will turn the screen off/on (screen curtain). This at least saves a bit of battery.
Interestingly, ads dont really bother me as most audiobook providers haven't enabled ads anyway.
You can easily listen to 10 hours of pratchett or dick without a single second of advertisment on yt.
If ads are enabled, they can lead to pretty hilarious situations. When I was listening to an audiobook of GoT on YT recently, it contained quite a bit of ads. Funnily, one of the ads regularily heard was an audible ad. And the book was clearly stolen from audible. So in the end, YT was passing money from audible to the ebook thiefs. How ironic.
Oh yeah, but hacking videos are apparently illegal now on YT.
Go figure. Looks to me like yt is creating its own pretty arbitrary law.
I am really surprised at how popular they are. I listen to a lot of podcasts, but when I want to read, I read. Listening to someone else read a book....doesn't feel right to me.
Reading is tiring. I spend all day looking at text at work. Audio books are an escape from that. They free me to do something else too. I use them in the following scenarios: strapped into the decompression machine at the chiro, stretching at home and winding down for bed with the lights off to stimulate melatonin. I couldn't read a book in any of those situations and they cover 100% of my book consumption. I didn't read books at all before audio books (at least not since I was a child, except for studying purposes).
I agree that a good narrator makes a huge difference.
I agree that a good narrator makes a huge difference.
I have two books on the go, one paper beside my bedstand and one on audible. I listen in the car, while running, while cooking, etc. I read when I have time to sit down and read or before bed.
They have to be done the right way. There’s a known talk radio show host who also writes books. I tried one of his audio books and it was not read by him, but by someone else. I couldn’t continue with it and got the print version.
• downpour.com
• libro.fm
• audiobooksnow.com
(The last of these has a handful of DRM'd books, so you need to check the listing first, but the vast majority are DRM-free.)
While none of these retailers have as large a library as Audible, their offerings are more than decent, particularly if you don't mind hopping between sites sometimes. This isn't vodo.net, or even gog.com.
Note that like Audible, Downpour and Libro.fm have subscription plans, which are all-but required if you want books at a reasonable price. Unlike Audible, however, it's easy to game the system by subscribing and quickly unsubscribing.
I know that Audible DRM is currently easy to remove, and that's great, but we should support the true DRM-Free providers where we can, or they might disappear. And if that happens, who knows what Audible will do.
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Honorable mentions:
• audiobookstore.com sells DRM Free audiobooks, but they always seem to cost much more than on other sites, even with a subscription plan. I've also never found a book that was available here but not on one of the cheaper DRM-Free stores.
• Graphicaudio.net offers DRM Free downloads if you don't mind paying a couple dollars extra per title. But these are very much not normal audiobooks.