Ask HN: Experiences going part time?
81 comments
I spent most of the last 5 years working about 10 hours a week at $90 a hour on a recurring freelance gig, which was enough to live comfortably in the midwest (my rent is currently $400 a month) and travel around eastern Europe. Not really enough to live in a city or have dependents, but I could probably afford that by just working 20 hours a week at $90 an hour.
I think what I did is very doable for other devs - my business proposal was: give me 10 regular hours a week, and I'll continue adding to your internal company app. Phone call with the client once a week. I automated a whole bunch of their processes using Django and it was a great win-win. They weren't large enough to need or be able to afford a full time dev and I could work part part time.
The extra time allowed me to try a bunch of things. I tried livestreaming on Twitch.tv, being a digital nomad, blogging, making products. I enjoyed not having an alarm clock and going on walks in the park whenever to think. I was able to really put time into working on myself, and my health and mental state are pretty good these days. I've read a lot of books.
I'll admit that I've wasted a lot of time surfing the internet - I think the danger of being fully self-directed is that you have to work hard to use the time well. Nobody is sitting on you to "do what you are supposed to." It has also been kind of isolating, but I'm also an introvert and have social anxiety, and working on relationship building is one of my soon future projects.
I think what I did is very doable for other devs - my business proposal was: give me 10 regular hours a week, and I'll continue adding to your internal company app. Phone call with the client once a week. I automated a whole bunch of their processes using Django and it was a great win-win. They weren't large enough to need or be able to afford a full time dev and I could work part part time.
The extra time allowed me to try a bunch of things. I tried livestreaming on Twitch.tv, being a digital nomad, blogging, making products. I enjoyed not having an alarm clock and going on walks in the park whenever to think. I was able to really put time into working on myself, and my health and mental state are pretty good these days. I've read a lot of books.
I'll admit that I've wasted a lot of time surfing the internet - I think the danger of being fully self-directed is that you have to work hard to use the time well. Nobody is sitting on you to "do what you are supposed to." It has also been kind of isolating, but I'm also an introvert and have social anxiety, and working on relationship building is one of my soon future projects.
That sounds like a lovely way to spend your time! And also one which seems safe for some time to come which is good, ie you aren't risking your future earning potential with this approach. Congratulations!
Are you looking for more django work?
I'd be happy to talk - I'll email you.
I am a Django freelancer who is looking for more work. Are you looking to hire?
I may have some work available - what's a good email to reach you at?
I may be interested :) You can message me at [email protected]
[deleted]
That sounds like an absolutely horrible way to spend five years. I cannot imagine being you, living in the time of technological empowerment, immediately before the time of atmospheric-carbon induced catastrophe, and having no goal or direction of how to spend my immensely valuable life force. I could absolutely not live with myself.
Funny you should say that - when I first started doing this I tried to get some of my friends to join me. They all fell apart from the lack of structure and went back to their old jobs. And that's not to say it was a moral failing on their part - I don't think everyone is wired to do this sort of thing, maybe even most people.
I'm also not saying that I wasted all of my time or that I did nothing of value - just that it has taken real effort to figure out what I value. I think the existential crises I've come through have been really important for my growth, and I wouldn't have had to think about it had I not had to direct my time myself.
I'm also not saying that I wasted all of my time or that I did nothing of value - just that it has taken real effort to figure out what I value. I think the existential crises I've come through have been really important for my growth, and I wouldn't have had to think about it had I not had to direct my time myself.
I suppose everyone has existential crisis at different points in their lives. When I was younger I became obsessed with global warming and the danger it presented. Sometimes I forget not everyone has had that crisis; hopefully you found the purpose or direction that you deeply identify with.
Satire, or...? I for one, if facing the impending apocalypse, would not want to be pouring my "life force" into work.
You could pour your life force into avoiding the apocalypse, you know? That's what I mean - Help us get out of the mess we've made.
And definitely working remote and walking - not commuting or flying over to the office is much less harmful to the planet.
Arguably working less and hence spending less is a pretty good step towards avoiding the problem.
Yea, when faced with an impending apocalypse you should be trolling internet forums!
You make a good point, but dispersing and absorbing knowledge is usually a high-value activity.
You must be very smart!
There are so many ways to live and to be happy, even if to your eyes it looks like "wasting time."
I'm just deeply bothered by the amount of tech talent we have that works on, frankly, dumb things. We face real, tangible problems and existential risks in the next 1 - 5 decades that will not just "solve themselves". So here I am, looking at these massive problems, while all us rich web developers tell ourselves "it won't happen in my generation". It's really bothersome.
Youre just a webdev bro. Fancy crud with redis on top for caching.
And somehow working 40 hours a week for another person's ambitions is the best thing to do with 'your immensely valuable life force'?
Is working 40 hours a week for an employer worth it
No if it's twitter or the government
Yes if you plan to start a company but don't have enough runway, so you can accumulate runway at your job
No if you have greater than $50,000 USD in cash and want to start a company
I think your rules will fall apart if you start looking at specific edge cases.
What if your job is working for the government on space tech? That seems to break your classifier.
Or if you work at a company ineffectively run.
Or if you have 50k in cash but not enough runway to accomplish what you want to do.
What if your job is working for the government on space tech? That seems to break your classifier.
Or if you work at a company ineffectively run.
Or if you have 50k in cash but not enough runway to accomplish what you want to do.
I went part time (60%) for about a year and a half at Red Hat. For context: I'm pretty senior (architect for the Gluster project), had been there a while, and the clear alternative was that I'd quit. I only mention that because I think I wouldn't have been able to pull it off otherwise.
First off, my boss at the time made a very wise suggestion to start with a month completely off. Not even checking email. My first thought was that it was to affect my own behavior, but the most important part was to change other people's habits. They couldn't count on me to drive anything, resolve anything, fix anything, for that month. They were forced to learn how to fill all those gaps themselves, so when I came back part time I wasn't immediately deluged with a full-time level of demands/requests (or worse because of the backlog). Great idea.
For the first year, it went pretty well. I don't feel like I benefited so much from the reduced hours as the increased flexibility. I could work when I wanted, fitting work around my domestic responsibilities or the ebb and flow of my own energy levels, instead of having to fit everything else around work. It's amazing what a difference that makes. Also, I could take a three- or four-day weekend whenever I wanted, without having to take any PTO. I'd just front-load the week before and back-load the week after to make it fit. Very nice.
Over time, I did start to work more than my nominal part-time hours - as I'd already expected. Mostly that's because I was feeling recovered from the burnout that had triggered the whole process. So eventually I talked to my (by then different) boss and went back to full time. Then the cycle kind of began again and now I'm not there, but that's kind of another story. It really did help, and I highly recommend that anyone who has been running flat out for 15+ years (for me it was over 20) try part time to see if it suits them.
First off, my boss at the time made a very wise suggestion to start with a month completely off. Not even checking email. My first thought was that it was to affect my own behavior, but the most important part was to change other people's habits. They couldn't count on me to drive anything, resolve anything, fix anything, for that month. They were forced to learn how to fill all those gaps themselves, so when I came back part time I wasn't immediately deluged with a full-time level of demands/requests (or worse because of the backlog). Great idea.
For the first year, it went pretty well. I don't feel like I benefited so much from the reduced hours as the increased flexibility. I could work when I wanted, fitting work around my domestic responsibilities or the ebb and flow of my own energy levels, instead of having to fit everything else around work. It's amazing what a difference that makes. Also, I could take a three- or four-day weekend whenever I wanted, without having to take any PTO. I'd just front-load the week before and back-load the week after to make it fit. Very nice.
Over time, I did start to work more than my nominal part-time hours - as I'd already expected. Mostly that's because I was feeling recovered from the burnout that had triggered the whole process. So eventually I talked to my (by then different) boss and went back to full time. Then the cycle kind of began again and now I'm not there, but that's kind of another story. It really did help, and I highly recommend that anyone who has been running flat out for 15+ years (for me it was over 20) try part time to see if it suits them.
Thanks for this, I like the idea of looking at it as a break after 20 years fulltime. It is a nice way to think about it.
Maybe any move to part time isn't a plan to be part time forever, just that it is the right thing right now. There's a lot of people who think the only way to achieve anything (ie starting/growing a business) is to put yourself 100% into it, which then costs time spent with family, hobbies and yourself etc. Maybe going a bit slower for a while on some parts of your life is the right thing to do, then to switch the balance later if/when it is appropriate.
Maybe any move to part time isn't a plan to be part time forever, just that it is the right thing right now. There's a lot of people who think the only way to achieve anything (ie starting/growing a business) is to put yourself 100% into it, which then costs time spent with family, hobbies and yourself etc. Maybe going a bit slower for a while on some parts of your life is the right thing to do, then to switch the balance later if/when it is appropriate.
Kudos to your manager. He or she knows how to keep someone loyal for life. Suggesting a holiday is a rare thing for a boss to do. Most can't see beyond burning down the backlog.
I haven't worked 40-hour weeks in nearly 7 years, and have recently started working for myself as a consultant.
If you go this route, it can be very rewarding. Work no longer becomes something you "have" to do, or something you escape during the weekends, but instead something you're doing because you want to, and doing it as much or as little as you want (within reason, you still probably have bills).
The most important lesson I can share is to be forgiving to yourself.
You will definitely spend whole days watching youtube or doing something 'unproductive', sometimes for long stretches.
Then you'll get dizzy thinking of all the lost opportunity and feel even worse that all you're doing is being 'unproductive'.
Remember this is normal, and human. If you're able to tell yourself it's OK, and try to just aim for being a little better about it, you'll be fine. If you beat yourself up about it, it'll just take you that much longer to get out of it and get to things you want to do.
Nowadays I recognize my unproductive cycles as a need to do something different for a while (eg. drawing, cooking, music) but it took some time to get used to harnessing my own motivation and accepting that it waxes and wanes as it does.
If you go this route, it can be very rewarding. Work no longer becomes something you "have" to do, or something you escape during the weekends, but instead something you're doing because you want to, and doing it as much or as little as you want (within reason, you still probably have bills).
The most important lesson I can share is to be forgiving to yourself.
You will definitely spend whole days watching youtube or doing something 'unproductive', sometimes for long stretches.
Then you'll get dizzy thinking of all the lost opportunity and feel even worse that all you're doing is being 'unproductive'.
Remember this is normal, and human. If you're able to tell yourself it's OK, and try to just aim for being a little better about it, you'll be fine. If you beat yourself up about it, it'll just take you that much longer to get out of it and get to things you want to do.
Nowadays I recognize my unproductive cycles as a need to do something different for a while (eg. drawing, cooking, music) but it took some time to get used to harnessing my own motivation and accepting that it waxes and wanes as it does.
Right now I am freelancing 20 hours a week. I've found it to be incredibly rewarding, as I have enough energy to sit down and code for 4 hours a day and then go home and read, go to the gym/library, watch a movie, or hang out with friends.
Plus, working part time in software still means that I make good money.
If I could work for a "regular" software company but only work 20 hours a week (and be paid 50%), I would definitely do it.
For what it's worth, I also know someone who for a while worked 6 weeks on 6 weeks off - he was kind of one of those fabled 10x developers and so had negotiated something special with his employer. Another commenter mentioned something similar; working 40 hours a week but for only a few months a year.
Plus, working part time in software still means that I make good money.
If I could work for a "regular" software company but only work 20 hours a week (and be paid 50%), I would definitely do it.
For what it's worth, I also know someone who for a while worked 6 weeks on 6 weeks off - he was kind of one of those fabled 10x developers and so had negotiated something special with his employer. Another commenter mentioned something similar; working 40 hours a week but for only a few months a year.
> If I could work for a "regular" software company but only work 20 hours a week (and be paid 50%), I would definitely do it.
i've often wondered why this is not available more often. my guess is that hiring a person is so expensive (benefits, unemployment ins, hardware, office space, HR time, etc) that the company feels that it must squeeze as much productivity out of the employee as possible.
workers require a bunch of time/effort to find and maintain a relationship with (so milk 'em like a cow before they dry up).
i've often wondered why this is not available more often. my guess is that hiring a person is so expensive (benefits, unemployment ins, hardware, office space, HR time, etc) that the company feels that it must squeeze as much productivity out of the employee as possible.
workers require a bunch of time/effort to find and maintain a relationship with (so milk 'em like a cow before they dry up).
My experience: I worked part time (3.5 days/week) for a startup early in my career. The reason was so I could go to school part-time also (for jazz performance).
I've since employed many folks part-time and a lot more full time. From what I've seen, it's almost always an option, but you have to ask for it, it's not just going to be offered.
It's also trickier to manage, if you have a handful of people that work 15-20 hours/week, and are paid hourly, vs full time folks who are salaried, and managing support/on-call schedules, etc, and it can create a strange dynamic on teams sometimes.
I've since employed many folks part-time and a lot more full time. From what I've seen, it's almost always an option, but you have to ask for it, it's not just going to be offered.
It's also trickier to manage, if you have a handful of people that work 15-20 hours/week, and are paid hourly, vs full time folks who are salaried, and managing support/on-call schedules, etc, and it can create a strange dynamic on teams sometimes.
Just curious, how do you find freelance work? And how much time do you spend garnering clients beyond that 20 hours?
Don't want to butt in here but I can tell you my own experience of this - I mostly used agencies in the past. These days it's mostly word of mouth or people I've worked with in the past. I might get a call a year or two later from a contact, who may even have moved companies, and they need someone for a job. I think it's a case of "devil you know". Recommendations and prior experiences of successfully completing gigs is quite important. If I were doing more gigs per year I'd probably work more with agencies. The gig I'm currently on was through an agency, just because that was how things worked out - I got a phone call and the gig was interesting and a good rate. Building up a network over time is important. I always take agency calls even if the person is a bit clueless - you never know when they might actually have a gig you want! Hope that helps!
Robin, there was some discussion on this on this comment thread recently:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14803468
Basically I work about three months a year, then take 9 months off. Spend a lot of time keeping fit, traveling, reading, spending time with family. Spend quite a bit of time in South East Asia - mostly diving. It's worked really well for me.
Feel free to email me if you have any more questions.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14803468
Basically I work about three months a year, then take 9 months off. Spend a lot of time keeping fit, traveling, reading, spending time with family. Spend quite a bit of time in South East Asia - mostly diving. It's worked really well for me.
Feel free to email me if you have any more questions.
Thanks! that's an interesting way to spend your time and nice that both you and your partner could adopt similar work patterns :)
After working for almost 7 years for the same company, I had a meltdown for many different reasons a bit more than two years ago. I have a fairly nice job and work with fantastic people. But plainly speaking I was getting tremendously bored. I looked for a different job and found several options, but my boss suggested me to work part time.
I have been doing that 22 hour/week and could not be happier. I wanted to do lots of extra things and personal projects. I am not doing much but I appreciate the extra time to think, read and wander. I used to have heavy insomnia, it is a 100% gone, there is almost zero stress, and money is more than enough. I am not married and have no kids but I warmly recommend it.
The best argument that someone gave me is that it is a very easy decision to roll back.
When I realized my startup was turning into more of a lifestyle business I decided to go part time and work remotely from Asia (I'm the founder and our only dev).
I gave our lead designer a lot more responsibility and empowered her to assign me the tasks she needed done instead of the other way around.
I kind of expected revenue to trail off over a few years. Oddly enough, with me working 1 day per week vs 5 I got back from Asia 7 months later and the business was going stronger than when I left.
I think being part time helped me focus on the things that actually mattered instead of just filling my time with trivialities for the hell of it. 80/20 rule in action.
I gave our lead designer a lot more responsibility and empowered her to assign me the tasks she needed done instead of the other way around.
I kind of expected revenue to trail off over a few years. Oddly enough, with me working 1 day per week vs 5 I got back from Asia 7 months later and the business was going stronger than when I left.
I think being part time helped me focus on the things that actually mattered instead of just filling my time with trivialities for the hell of it. 80/20 rule in action.
I found a bit of this recently when I went 1/2 time on my business after the arrival of my 2nd child. Only having 2-3 days a week meant having a clear plan on what needed to be achieved and made me more realistic about not taking too many things on at once. Those first few weeks back were some of the most productive I've had I think!
Where did you live in Asia?
Longest was Philippines for 2 months and China for 6 weeks. Besides that just bopped around SEA for 2-3 weeks at a time.
Past couple of startup jobs I worked part time (80-85% time), and before that did consulting part time.
Some takeaways, and you'll see this in other stories here:
1. It's much easier to negotiate part time at existing job.
2. It is possible to negotiate part time at new jobs, but it's much harder. Easier if you already did it at previous position, and if you're very experienced, have in-demand skills, and have negotiation skills.
My experience (again, echoed by others) is that I am now a much more productive programmer, since I've been forced to focus, to prioritize, and to make sure limited time is used effectively.
(I'm actually writing a book, The Programmer's Guide to a Sane Workweek, to be released real soon now, which talks among other things about how to get to a shorter workweek if that's your thing. https://codewithoutrules.com/saneworkweek/ if you want to be notified when it's released.)
Some takeaways, and you'll see this in other stories here:
1. It's much easier to negotiate part time at existing job.
2. It is possible to negotiate part time at new jobs, but it's much harder. Easier if you already did it at previous position, and if you're very experienced, have in-demand skills, and have negotiation skills.
My experience (again, echoed by others) is that I am now a much more productive programmer, since I've been forced to focus, to prioritize, and to make sure limited time is used effectively.
(I'm actually writing a book, The Programmer's Guide to a Sane Workweek, to be released real soon now, which talks among other things about how to get to a shorter workweek if that's your thing. https://codewithoutrules.com/saneworkweek/ if you want to be notified when it's released.)
I would just add one other idea as no one has mentioned it.
Although not "part-time" as such if you can't get part-time or contract work there is another approach - mini-retirement.
The basic idea is this: these days you almost never work for one company for ever. So, work somewhere for, say, two or three years, then take a year out. If you ram down your expenses and save hard during your two or three year stint you should be able to afford to do this.
A mini-retirement can be of almost any duration you like. Before I went contracting I took several, ranging in length from three months to one year.
You need to plan carefully, but you will find the break of great benefit. My productivity after returning from a mini-retirement was breathtaking - I was like a completely different person.
If you want to stay with the same company discuss having a sabbatical - if they say "no" screw them - you are better off with another company.
Reading this comment thread and previous threads on HN I think there is a lesson here for HR departments in software companies - why are you running your engineers ragged when they would be so much more productive if they had more time off? I guess the old 40-hr week mentality has not quite caught up with modern developments...
Although not "part-time" as such if you can't get part-time or contract work there is another approach - mini-retirement.
The basic idea is this: these days you almost never work for one company for ever. So, work somewhere for, say, two or three years, then take a year out. If you ram down your expenses and save hard during your two or three year stint you should be able to afford to do this.
A mini-retirement can be of almost any duration you like. Before I went contracting I took several, ranging in length from three months to one year.
You need to plan carefully, but you will find the break of great benefit. My productivity after returning from a mini-retirement was breathtaking - I was like a completely different person.
If you want to stay with the same company discuss having a sabbatical - if they say "no" screw them - you are better off with another company.
Reading this comment thread and previous threads on HN I think there is a lesson here for HR departments in software companies - why are you running your engineers ragged when they would be so much more productive if they had more time off? I guess the old 40-hr week mentality has not quite caught up with modern developments...
This is an interesting idea, maybe I should have a mini-retirement through to when my kids start school?
I had thought of a similar approach from the other side. Ie arranging my work as one off missions (ie raise activation rates 2x) and then deciding after each one whether I continue working or take a break. There are a few things getting in the way of that at the moment and I think I prefer the regular if smaller push of working part time. However, for a business owner I guess that could be a nice way to work if it fitted their lifestyle.
I had thought of a similar approach from the other side. Ie arranging my work as one off missions (ie raise activation rates 2x) and then deciding after each one whether I continue working or take a break. There are a few things getting in the way of that at the moment and I think I prefer the regular if smaller push of working part time. However, for a business owner I guess that could be a nice way to work if it fitted their lifestyle.
Not fully part time, but I went from 40 to 32 hours/week after my daughter was born to spend Mondays looking after the kids.
It's been great, I have one day per week when I'm the only parent and usually it means a combination of housework (meh, but has to be done) and fun quality time with the kids.
I was actually a contractor at the time, and I think I was relatively lucky the client was understanding about it. After I stopped contracting I took a perm position and I was their first employee not working 40 hours/week. Again they were great, and it worked out fine.
I'm now Scrum Master there which occasionally can be an issue when I'm not there on Mondays, as one of my responsibilities is removing impediments for the team. But overall it works pretty well. I do feel like there's not enough hours in the week, but the most important things get done.
I wouldn't have done it differently. I'm wondering how things will change and what I'll do once our youngest kids are all at school.
It's been great, I have one day per week when I'm the only parent and usually it means a combination of housework (meh, but has to be done) and fun quality time with the kids.
I was actually a contractor at the time, and I think I was relatively lucky the client was understanding about it. After I stopped contracting I took a perm position and I was their first employee not working 40 hours/week. Again they were great, and it worked out fine.
I'm now Scrum Master there which occasionally can be an issue when I'm not there on Mondays, as one of my responsibilities is removing impediments for the team. But overall it works pretty well. I do feel like there's not enough hours in the week, but the most important things get done.
I wouldn't have done it differently. I'm wondering how things will change and what I'll do once our youngest kids are all at school.
I have Fridays off to spend with my kids too. It's really nice. I've always found it quite difficult to switch off, but after three days with the kids I go back to work refreshed and with a fresh sense of perspective.
It's lovely to have extra time to spend with them while they are small. I always look forward to our Friday adventures. I appreciate the feeling of space it gives my week.
While I was on mat leave I started working on my little side project while they napped just to keep my skills fresh and to exercise the part of my brain. I've kept doing that and really enjoy having the time to inch my little website along. There's not a massive amount of time in my life that's not being a parent or at work, so it's been really nice to have something where I can call the shots and just do something for myself.
My boss was very accommodating when I wanted to switch to a four day week. We had another older guy in the team who was working half time and spending the other half spin charity work. There were also some other parents in the department who did non-standard hours. I don't know if it would have occurred to me if there weren't already other people doing it.
It's lovely to have extra time to spend with them while they are small. I always look forward to our Friday adventures. I appreciate the feeling of space it gives my week.
While I was on mat leave I started working on my little side project while they napped just to keep my skills fresh and to exercise the part of my brain. I've kept doing that and really enjoy having the time to inch my little website along. There's not a massive amount of time in my life that's not being a parent or at work, so it's been really nice to have something where I can call the shots and just do something for myself.
My boss was very accommodating when I wanted to switch to a four day week. We had another older guy in the team who was working half time and spending the other half spin charity work. There were also some other parents in the department who did non-standard hours. I don't know if it would have occurred to me if there weren't already other people doing it.
It would be great to have a "Who's hiring" post exclusive to part-time gigs. If anyone has an F# vacancy, I would switch to that in a heart-beat.
I started freelancing earlier this year over https://www.toptal.com/#connect-unmatched-coders-now My plan was to freelance some time as an additional work to my regular 9-17h job to test it out. Then I quit regular work and freelance full time (with better pay than a regular job, but now I feel secure that freelance will not leave me for prolonged periods without a job). This way I gained flexibility in time (I can work from wherever and whenever I want). And after some time I will probably go half-time freelance and do something else with my time (probably tackle some startup ideas I have for some time, but after I work on myself first).
How difficult was it to become a programmer with TopTal? How do you like working through them?
You have 4-5 step process. I do not know if top 3% that they boast on the website is correct and I do not care, I just care that I love working with them and that it pays more than the jobs from my city can pay, with added benefit of working from wherever you want.
It was not 'that' hard if you are versed in the algorithms. Steps are like this :
1. Screening process (testing for good English)
2. Codility test (algorithms, 3-4 tasks in 90mins or such)
3. Same as codility but easier, coding while you share the screen with Toptal dev. And he will ask you some questions regarding your experience, and why did you do something. Tasks were easier than codility tasks.
4. You get the project to do. The project will be relevant to your experience. So if you are mobile dev you will probably get a task to make some basic mobile app with maybe firebase as a backend DB. I got some basic app to make as restful API and angular as a client. Its purpose is to demonstrate that you know the basic stuff like what REST is, testing, project structure, roles, security, etc..
5. The last step is to share the screen with Toptal dev and to go through your project explaining to him what you did and why (trying to explain like you would to a client)
From my experience, I would say if you pass algorithm tasks, you will make the project for sure (you get 2 weeks for it). If you fail they will give you a second chance to reapply very soon (at 2-3 month tops, depends on where and how miserably you failed). If you failed for the second time, you must wait 2-3 years. Good luck!
1. Screening process (testing for good English)
2. Codility test (algorithms, 3-4 tasks in 90mins or such)
3. Same as codility but easier, coding while you share the screen with Toptal dev. And he will ask you some questions regarding your experience, and why did you do something. Tasks were easier than codility tasks.
4. You get the project to do. The project will be relevant to your experience. So if you are mobile dev you will probably get a task to make some basic mobile app with maybe firebase as a backend DB. I got some basic app to make as restful API and angular as a client. Its purpose is to demonstrate that you know the basic stuff like what REST is, testing, project structure, roles, security, etc..
5. The last step is to share the screen with Toptal dev and to go through your project explaining to him what you did and why (trying to explain like you would to a client)
From my experience, I would say if you pass algorithm tasks, you will make the project for sure (you get 2 weeks for it). If you fail they will give you a second chance to reapply very soon (at 2-3 month tops, depends on where and how miserably you failed). If you failed for the second time, you must wait 2-3 years. Good luck!
I went part-time recently so I could spend more time on my side project. So far I've wasted most of the extra time procrastinating. :(
Just spitballing, whenever I get stuck like this I make my todo list more granular than it already is. Split each task into sub-tasks etc, as much as needed to make it easily manageably. Makes it easy to dive into a task when it's easy to see how quickly it is to complete. The added benefit of going through this is greater clarity of what you where trying to achieve in the first place.
I find if I am procrastinating in situations like that it is often that I don't actually know what the next step is. YMMV but that may be worth thinking about :)
I sympathize. I spend a lot of time in the dark playground myself.
https://www.ted.com/talks/tim_urban_inside_the_mind_of_a_mas...
https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrasti...
https://www.ted.com/talks/tim_urban_inside_the_mind_of_a_mas...
https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrasti...
Well, maybe you needed some time off. Gotta be careful, not burn out on own projects, risk loosing a hobby and more
how did you convince your manager to switch to part-time?
I've been consulting about 25 hours a week for the last couple years. Sometimes a little more (there was a month where I was doing north of 80 hours a week--and it was time-and-a-half overtime-billable, which is something I don't expect to ever see again), sometimes a lot less when business is light.
It's probably kept me from leaving tech entirely. I was in a weird middle-ground spot in my career where I had pretty much topped out on what I was going to be able to accomplish as a purely technical developer at companies of the size I enjoy working at, but at the same time I was basically too young (and still look very young) to be in a managerial role over senior developers. So consulting has been a great outlet where I've kept technically very sharp but been able to generate the social credibility to work with management on a peer level rather than as an employee-employer level.
I'm idly thinking about going back to FT (but not aggressively, I don't need to) for the consistency, but at the same time, I'm always looking for more gigs either in application development, as I'm pretty comfortable across many languages and frameworks, or in devops/infrastructure consulting, because I build cloud systems that are fault-tolerant and secure. (Looking to boost your team? Email's in my profile.)
It's probably kept me from leaving tech entirely. I was in a weird middle-ground spot in my career where I had pretty much topped out on what I was going to be able to accomplish as a purely technical developer at companies of the size I enjoy working at, but at the same time I was basically too young (and still look very young) to be in a managerial role over senior developers. So consulting has been a great outlet where I've kept technically very sharp but been able to generate the social credibility to work with management on a peer level rather than as an employee-employer level.
I'm idly thinking about going back to FT (but not aggressively, I don't need to) for the consistency, but at the same time, I'm always looking for more gigs either in application development, as I'm pretty comfortable across many languages and frameworks, or in devops/infrastructure consulting, because I build cloud systems that are fault-tolerant and secure. (Looking to boost your team? Email's in my profile.)
If you haven't done so already (and are male) you might try growing a beard? I've seen a few 'young' team leads go that route and it is surprisingly effective.
Curious if you could talk about the transition from FT to consulting? Specifically how you prepared and when you knew you had enough clients lined up to leave? Thanks!
I got laid off when the company that acquired the startup I worked for, plus two or three others in the same space at the same time, tried to make us the "cloud services" group for the others (laying off our product group to "refocus us"). We were like "...we don't want to do this", so we basically all got laid off with nice severances, I screwed around for a month or so, and I ended up doing some work for a very large startup where my friend was the Director of Engineering. Been doing it ever since.
I am a Drupalist and work for a large government contractor and was able to switch to 75% time 30/hours a week about a year ago. I did it for several reasons:
* a bit of burnout (not acute, but the preliminary symptoms were there)
* wanting more time for myself (my side projects and fitness had been languishing under work and family responsibilities)
* wanting to get back into coaching (rowing--does not pay well, but is extremely gratifying)
All told it's been wonderful. I really enjoy my 2/hrs day for myself. I would work less, but I want to meet my saving obligations. The current situation is a nice compromise.
Tips:
* Make sure you plan each day what you're going to do (I do this as part of my work prep so I never skip this)
* Give yourself permission to f!ck off every now and again; just don't make it a habit
* Devote some time to learning new skills (2 hours immersion in new software > 5' reading about it)
* Be clear with your employer and co-workers about when you are available and when you're not and stick to it.
* For coding side-projects, always leave 15' to create a note to yourself about where you are and update your @todo so when you jump back in you can be productive quickly.
If you can do it, I highly recommend it.
* a bit of burnout (not acute, but the preliminary symptoms were there)
* wanting more time for myself (my side projects and fitness had been languishing under work and family responsibilities)
* wanting to get back into coaching (rowing--does not pay well, but is extremely gratifying)
All told it's been wonderful. I really enjoy my 2/hrs day for myself. I would work less, but I want to meet my saving obligations. The current situation is a nice compromise.
Tips:
* Make sure you plan each day what you're going to do (I do this as part of my work prep so I never skip this)
* Give yourself permission to f!ck off every now and again; just don't make it a habit
* Devote some time to learning new skills (2 hours immersion in new software > 5' reading about it)
* Be clear with your employer and co-workers about when you are available and when you're not and stick to it.
* For coding side-projects, always leave 15' to create a note to yourself about where you are and update your @todo so when you jump back in you can be productive quickly.
If you can do it, I highly recommend it.
I'm currently doing this.
Basically, I work for four hours per day doing mostly Django and back-end stuff and a bit of dev/ops and Angular for some great folk at a growing startup.
I spend two unpaid hours per day focusing on learning something (currently Rust).
I spend another two hours per day working on my own project. Currently, that's a React Native app designed to make it easy to write books by speaking into your phone. I'm using it to dictate my own book as I develop the app.
After that I try to spend time with my wife and kids. It's pretty nice so far.
One interesting thing I've learned is that I enjoy the contracting as much or more than the stuff I do on my own. There's something about human interaction that adds a bit more fun. At the same time, it matters a lot to me to have freedom to learn and build without taking too much time from the family.
For that reason, and because money is good to earn, I think that when my Rust has matured a little bit I'll probably try to find a gig that lets me use it in for pay alongside the Django work.
Basically, I work for four hours per day doing mostly Django and back-end stuff and a bit of dev/ops and Angular for some great folk at a growing startup.
I spend two unpaid hours per day focusing on learning something (currently Rust).
I spend another two hours per day working on my own project. Currently, that's a React Native app designed to make it easy to write books by speaking into your phone. I'm using it to dictate my own book as I develop the app.
After that I try to spend time with my wife and kids. It's pretty nice so far.
One interesting thing I've learned is that I enjoy the contracting as much or more than the stuff I do on my own. There's something about human interaction that adds a bit more fun. At the same time, it matters a lot to me to have freedom to learn and build without taking too much time from the family.
For that reason, and because money is good to earn, I think that when my Rust has matured a little bit I'll probably try to find a gig that lets me use it in for pay alongside the Django work.
I went part-time many years ago. I gave the kind of answer you may be looking for a while back here on HN (though I now work about 20h/wk and feel a lot better. It's good to have a boulder to push up the proverbial hill).
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13337618
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13337618
It can work out great:
I got a full time job as a BA after a few years downtime from selling my business, but within days I hated my new role and after 3 months tried to quit but my boss was so happy with my input into the business that he said 'tell me how I can keep you' so I asked for a new role that didn't exist at the time in the company and became a 3 days per week scrum master for a few years. I used the spare time to parent (divorcee with 2 kids that I co-parent e.g. I have them for a week every other week). Once my kids got a little older, I decided to build my own house and recently quit to finish the house full time. All decisions I don't regret but I was in a great position to take them. Tips: Being in a job seems the best way to negotiate especially if you have a proven track record and integrity / trustworthiness I am able to self manage my time and clocked almost exactly 3 days per week. I worked from home (negotiated) and that helped tremendously I negotiated a day rate so if I did more time per month I got paid including up to full time in any month if it suited. Some numbers: my original salary was 67k€ and I earned around 40k€ per year part time. I think spending the time doing what you actually want and like is like the most amazing gift and pleasure and worth the salary loss and more. I could never go back to full time, every hour belonging to someone else and not being around for my kids and being able to squeeze in naps or guilty pleasures on tough days. I've come to appreciate the small things like the tedium of the school run and evening routine more because I'm actually able to enjoy it as I'm not so disconnected. I'm involved with every aspect of my kids life when I have them and I've found new interests and hobbies I'd never have time for before through building my own house including woodwork and architecture etc. Can't recommend it enough if it suits your life's expectations e.g. You can afford it and you don't live like a king ;)
I got a full time job as a BA after a few years downtime from selling my business, but within days I hated my new role and after 3 months tried to quit but my boss was so happy with my input into the business that he said 'tell me how I can keep you' so I asked for a new role that didn't exist at the time in the company and became a 3 days per week scrum master for a few years. I used the spare time to parent (divorcee with 2 kids that I co-parent e.g. I have them for a week every other week). Once my kids got a little older, I decided to build my own house and recently quit to finish the house full time. All decisions I don't regret but I was in a great position to take them. Tips: Being in a job seems the best way to negotiate especially if you have a proven track record and integrity / trustworthiness I am able to self manage my time and clocked almost exactly 3 days per week. I worked from home (negotiated) and that helped tremendously I negotiated a day rate so if I did more time per month I got paid including up to full time in any month if it suited. Some numbers: my original salary was 67k€ and I earned around 40k€ per year part time. I think spending the time doing what you actually want and like is like the most amazing gift and pleasure and worth the salary loss and more. I could never go back to full time, every hour belonging to someone else and not being around for my kids and being able to squeeze in naps or guilty pleasures on tough days. I've come to appreciate the small things like the tedium of the school run and evening routine more because I'm actually able to enjoy it as I'm not so disconnected. I'm involved with every aspect of my kids life when I have them and I've found new interests and hobbies I'd never have time for before through building my own house including woodwork and architecture etc. Can't recommend it enough if it suits your life's expectations e.g. You can afford it and you don't live like a king ;)
A couple years ago I went part time for three months to finish writing a book. It was a great experience and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
If you can afford to do it, working part time provides a much better work-life balance and frees you to work on side projects. The only downside was that I had a difficult time returning to full time work.
If you can afford to do it, working part time provides a much better work-life balance and frees you to work on side projects. The only downside was that I had a difficult time returning to full time work.
Have you had a difficult time because you haven't been used to working full-time or because of potential employers?
I worked part-time for half of 2015 and most of 2016. Most of those gigs were with a small number of clients that couldn’t justify hiring a designer/developer unicorn full-time but were not cash-strapped either. They were mostly American as well which really helped offset the time commitments being a Canadian.
With my extra time I mostly read, visited museums, worked on a game prototype and travelled between cities along the Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal corridor (since I worked remotely it didn’t matter where I was).
I think the only thing I would have done differently was get out of Canada more often. I had insane flexibility but didn’t take advantage of it as much as I could have.
This year I’ve gone back to working closer to full-time and with predominantly Canadian clients. However I’ll probably try to resurrect the routine I had just mentioned.
With my extra time I mostly read, visited museums, worked on a game prototype and travelled between cities along the Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal corridor (since I worked remotely it didn’t matter where I was).
I think the only thing I would have done differently was get out of Canada more often. I had insane flexibility but didn’t take advantage of it as much as I could have.
This year I’ve gone back to working closer to full-time and with predominantly Canadian clients. However I’ll probably try to resurrect the routine I had just mentioned.
I'm freelancing and bounce between working full-time and working on my own projects. I just mention this as an option because if you're up to working a full-time schedule for stretches, there's a fair amount of this sort of work available.
Financial discipline is important, as is time management. I have a routine that doesn't change much whether I'm working for other people or working for myself. I disconnect the internet at night so I have a block of time without it.
With the extra time I've accomplished a lot of reading, and exercise. I think my coding skill has improved by leaps and bounds because I'm able to experiment with new things. I'd like to start travelling for part of the year.
What I would have done differently and am trying to do differently: do a better job of sourcing work.
Financial discipline is important, as is time management. I have a routine that doesn't change much whether I'm working for other people or working for myself. I disconnect the internet at night so I have a block of time without it.
With the extra time I've accomplished a lot of reading, and exercise. I think my coding skill has improved by leaps and bounds because I'm able to experiment with new things. I'd like to start travelling for part of the year.
What I would have done differently and am trying to do differently: do a better job of sourcing work.
I went off the grid of 9-5 over a decade back. Now, I divide my time between freelance gigs and personal projects (mostly niche websites).
I went part time a couple of years ago when my wife changed jobs and I wanted to spend more time with children & cut childcare costs.
My experience was negative.
I found that I didn't have the time anymore to get everything I needed to, do the work, market myself, learn new skills, deal with all the admin etc etc. Things started to drift and ended up losing motivation and customers.
However I wouldn't change anything. I got to spend much more time with my family, but from a career perspective I have certainly stagnated.
I am looking forward to going back full time in 12 months when my youngest starts secondary school.
Everybody's situation is different and you are not going to know how it will pan out until you try it.
My experience was negative.
I found that I didn't have the time anymore to get everything I needed to, do the work, market myself, learn new skills, deal with all the admin etc etc. Things started to drift and ended up losing motivation and customers.
However I wouldn't change anything. I got to spend much more time with my family, but from a career perspective I have certainly stagnated.
I am looking forward to going back full time in 12 months when my youngest starts secondary school.
Everybody's situation is different and you are not going to know how it will pan out until you try it.
I work 4 days a week, which allows me to spend one looking after my daughter. I had the option to do that, or take a (hugely) better paid job. Don't regret it for a second, and I don't think it has actually had that significant of an impact on how much I actually get done in a week.
At least until my child starts school, I wouldn't even consider working full time. Even then, I think the positive difference the extra time has made to me, and my family would make me think hard about going back to a 5 day working week.
At least until my child starts school, I wouldn't even consider working full time. Even then, I think the positive difference the extra time has made to me, and my family would make me think hard about going back to a 5 day working week.
Thanks, this is interesting. I am considering a similar 'until the kids are at school' approach. We will see how I want to spend my time when we get to that bridge, back fulltime, or maybe more time on hobbies?
My first part-time experience just started 2 months ago (not counting the odd freelance job once in a while). It's a contractor telecommute job for a small video game studio.
It's pretty good for the most part, but being gamedev related, it is not a very lucrative spot to be in. Initially I tried finding another PT programming job to fill in the extra time, but that proved to be fairly difficult, so I'm just riding out the rest of the contract while keeping my options open for a full-time job somewhere else in the future. I chose this job because it really spoke to some of my coding projects and it's a nice pivot away from my usual web development fare.
I've been using my extra time to pursue various topics and hobbies (both programming and non-programming related) and on errands for my mom (I currently live with her). I hope to go back full-time soon and live independently again.
The biggest difference to me is not in working part-time but telecommuting. Returning to an office will be a necessary adjustment. It can definitely affect your ability to socialize and communicate in-person, especially if you're more of a homebody like myself. I've found that to be more harmful to your career than even just idly surfing the internet, as people tend to hold certain expectations towards your network and ability to attain job offers at certain lengths of tenure.
It's pretty good for the most part, but being gamedev related, it is not a very lucrative spot to be in. Initially I tried finding another PT programming job to fill in the extra time, but that proved to be fairly difficult, so I'm just riding out the rest of the contract while keeping my options open for a full-time job somewhere else in the future. I chose this job because it really spoke to some of my coding projects and it's a nice pivot away from my usual web development fare.
I've been using my extra time to pursue various topics and hobbies (both programming and non-programming related) and on errands for my mom (I currently live with her). I hope to go back full-time soon and live independently again.
The biggest difference to me is not in working part-time but telecommuting. Returning to an office will be a necessary adjustment. It can definitely affect your ability to socialize and communicate in-person, especially if you're more of a homebody like myself. I've found that to be more harmful to your career than even just idly surfing the internet, as people tend to hold certain expectations towards your network and ability to attain job offers at certain lengths of tenure.
[deleted]
This question is aptly timed. I am strongly considering move toward consulting, with working part-time as part of the reasoning. I have had a few requests this year alone to consult on the side, but I find the extra work draining after a full day of my main job. Currently doing only small projects for old clients.
Of course, as I make this decision, the requests for my services has stopped. :) Anyone need Elasticsearch services?
Of course, as I make this decision, the requests for my services has stopped. :) Anyone need Elasticsearch services?
[deleted]
Any Project and Product Managers here who made the leap to part-time? Especially for project management I still struggle a bit to see an easy path to part-time.
(Maybe start-ups that are short on money? But do those pay OK than? Or is there just consulting as an option?)
(Maybe start-ups that are short on money? But do those pay OK than? Or is there just consulting as an option?)
TL;DR: Build remote friendly, valuable company skills. Pick a focused project or skillset to work on. Find a work space that has good people in it. Take extended travel trips, but not too long.
I was a full time Manufacturing Engineer in an Aerospace Manufacturing company until I decided to dive into the A.I space and focus on Machine Learning. Fortunately around that time I implemented an ERP system at my company. I taught myself SQL, SSRS and some advanced customizations of the ERP system and began building Business Intelligence tools and reports. With remote friendly and company valued skills in hand, I asked to go part time remote so I can spend more hours programming and tackling ML projects.
One year into it now, I work 20 hours remotely for the Aerospace company, and spend about 20 hours to a ML project with another two researchers, then the rest is on personal projects / development work (website building, reading, non-ML projects).
My take on it is that the hours with my Aerospace company are easy to tackle. Specific objectives, set amount of time to complete, and your success as an employee is measured by deliverables. The other hours are loosely defined, open ended and possibly more mentally exhausting if you are trying to learn new skills.
I would recommend picking one tangible objective / project to spend your extra time working on, otherwise I think the hours will be under utilized.
My experience is that the first few months I spent learning a lot of different things in CS / ML. After a while it started to not feel very satisfying, because I wasn't gaining a mastery in any one thing and I didn't feel like I had much to show for it (aside from proclaiming 'I learned about a bunch of different things!').
With the internets infinite resources, it's easy to pass the days just wandering through the vast stores of knowledge out there (or get lost in hacker news or Wikipedia). If you don't have a fiery passion for something specific, it may be even harder to work effectively during these hours. The other option is to not work on anything and just do as you please, but I don't find that particularly satisfying myself. So my recommendation here is to go into part-time with the intention of building a very specific skillset / work on a specific project.
Once you have a very specific objective for your personal-work hours, the flexibility is glorious. I have the freedom to exercise, meditate, even power nap at whatever time I see fit. I can work through lunch or take a long one with someone, work from the library, co-working space, office or home if I please. These activities do take up time, but because they make the work life more enjoyable, work and life hours are blurred a bit more. I work on Saturday and Sunday, but that's okay because I'm never really burnt out.
The one draw back is lack of social connection while you work. I do video meetings every day and we cover the necessary items as far as the business goes, but there's definitely some fundamental human need to interact with other people and maybe form social groups or something. I used to work out of a different coffee shop a day, but working for long periods of time in semi-isolation and uncomfortable chairs isn't the heaven I imagined it to be. Whether you're working in office or out of office, finding people you enjoy working around I think is important. Then again I'm more an extrovert so maybe reclusive individuals won't feel the same way.
Lastly, free time:
I did travel around the world for about 8 months. I personally wasn't any less productive on my work hours, because in my mind the A.I stuff and having income was #1 priority, travel #2. It's a bit stressful to find a place to work with great wifi when you change cities every week.
Maybe this is obvious, but working every day is a different experience than vacationing every day. After about 3 months you get very used to changing scenery and new places do not have the 'wow' factor, so I think most people settle in one place after traveling for a while. I settled back to Boston because of the A.I community there.
Lastly, if I had to redo the experience, I would have started with a more specific outline of what I wanted to accomplish with my extra time. Other than that everything has been wonderful.
Any questions, feel free to ask! This is the first time I've written about my experience woo hoo!
I was a full time Manufacturing Engineer in an Aerospace Manufacturing company until I decided to dive into the A.I space and focus on Machine Learning. Fortunately around that time I implemented an ERP system at my company. I taught myself SQL, SSRS and some advanced customizations of the ERP system and began building Business Intelligence tools and reports. With remote friendly and company valued skills in hand, I asked to go part time remote so I can spend more hours programming and tackling ML projects.
One year into it now, I work 20 hours remotely for the Aerospace company, and spend about 20 hours to a ML project with another two researchers, then the rest is on personal projects / development work (website building, reading, non-ML projects).
My take on it is that the hours with my Aerospace company are easy to tackle. Specific objectives, set amount of time to complete, and your success as an employee is measured by deliverables. The other hours are loosely defined, open ended and possibly more mentally exhausting if you are trying to learn new skills.
I would recommend picking one tangible objective / project to spend your extra time working on, otherwise I think the hours will be under utilized.
My experience is that the first few months I spent learning a lot of different things in CS / ML. After a while it started to not feel very satisfying, because I wasn't gaining a mastery in any one thing and I didn't feel like I had much to show for it (aside from proclaiming 'I learned about a bunch of different things!').
With the internets infinite resources, it's easy to pass the days just wandering through the vast stores of knowledge out there (or get lost in hacker news or Wikipedia). If you don't have a fiery passion for something specific, it may be even harder to work effectively during these hours. The other option is to not work on anything and just do as you please, but I don't find that particularly satisfying myself. So my recommendation here is to go into part-time with the intention of building a very specific skillset / work on a specific project.
Once you have a very specific objective for your personal-work hours, the flexibility is glorious. I have the freedom to exercise, meditate, even power nap at whatever time I see fit. I can work through lunch or take a long one with someone, work from the library, co-working space, office or home if I please. These activities do take up time, but because they make the work life more enjoyable, work and life hours are blurred a bit more. I work on Saturday and Sunday, but that's okay because I'm never really burnt out.
The one draw back is lack of social connection while you work. I do video meetings every day and we cover the necessary items as far as the business goes, but there's definitely some fundamental human need to interact with other people and maybe form social groups or something. I used to work out of a different coffee shop a day, but working for long periods of time in semi-isolation and uncomfortable chairs isn't the heaven I imagined it to be. Whether you're working in office or out of office, finding people you enjoy working around I think is important. Then again I'm more an extrovert so maybe reclusive individuals won't feel the same way.
Lastly, free time:
I did travel around the world for about 8 months. I personally wasn't any less productive on my work hours, because in my mind the A.I stuff and having income was #1 priority, travel #2. It's a bit stressful to find a place to work with great wifi when you change cities every week.
Maybe this is obvious, but working every day is a different experience than vacationing every day. After about 3 months you get very used to changing scenery and new places do not have the 'wow' factor, so I think most people settle in one place after traveling for a while. I settled back to Boston because of the A.I community there.
Lastly, if I had to redo the experience, I would have started with a more specific outline of what I wanted to accomplish with my extra time. Other than that everything has been wonderful.
Any questions, feel free to ask! This is the first time I've written about my experience woo hoo!
Thanks for the big write up, very insightful.
I actually own my own business so focusing on things during work time isn't too hard (Always too much to do regardless of the hours I work). The need for some social contact is an interesting one as I we are also considering moving out of the town we live in with my family. I think we will use that as an excuse to join some local groups and get involved with things and hence meet people that way.
Thanks!
I actually own my own business so focusing on things during work time isn't too hard (Always too much to do regardless of the hours I work). The need for some social contact is an interesting one as I we are also considering moving out of the town we live in with my family. I think we will use that as an excuse to join some local groups and get involved with things and hence meet people that way.
Thanks!
I worked part time and I found myself pressured into doing more hours nearly everywhere I went. I even had one person say "Either you join us full time or we'll have to replace you with someone who will."
I only work part time for other people so I can spend most of my time learning and working on whatever I want to work on. (And I intend/hope to make up for the lost income later on through business profits.)
Has any one gone part time? How did it work out? What are you doing with the extra time? Anything you would have done differently? Anything else you want to tell us?
Cheers!