Will the high-tech cities of the future be utterly lonely?(theweek.com)
theweek.com
Will the high-tech cities of the future be utterly lonely?
http://theweek.com/articles/689527/hightech-cities-future-utterly-lonely
38 comments
man, can't wait for tech to come out that chops out the need to socially connect, depression caused by the lack same is absolutely annoying
"Do you have serious loneliness and depression? I have an app for that! Friendsy, in which a cute little virtual kitten gives you points to spend at Amazon if you perform social interactions! remember, 1000 points is $5 off your next order. That's only 25 Hellos, or four Meetup meetings a month!"
That's still a better idea than juicera.
[deleted]
"By 2050, more than 66 percent of the world's population will be living in so-called "smart cities." These are metropolitan areas where everything will be digitally connected. ...
we'll have smart hospitals, farms, and highways, and it's likely they'll all talk to one another. Connected devices will monitor everything from air quality to energy usage and traffic congestion."
While that might lead to efficiency that makes me feel it's more of a dystopia than a place I'd want to live.
To me says: there will be someone monitoring you to make sure you are a good little cog and don't disturb the status quo.
While that might lead to efficiency that makes me feel it's more of a dystopia than a place I'd want to live.
To me says: there will be someone monitoring you to make sure you are a good little cog and don't disturb the status quo.
>"By 2050, more than 66 percent of the world's population will be living in so-called "smart cities." These are metropolitan areas where everything will be digitally connected. ... we'll have smart hospitals, farms, and highways, and it's likely they'll all talk to one another. Connected devices will monitor everything from air quality to energy usage and traffic congestion."
This sounds silly. Where's the margin in all these devices and connections?
This sounds silly. Where's the margin in all these devices and connections?
Yes, what are poor people really for when we have full automation...
IIRC, this is explored in Soylent Green: furniture and food
sounds like a Brave New World-type dystopia to me.
Off Topic: that site is doing something I've seen on a lot of sites: not correctly taking into account that menu banner overlay on the top when the user hits space to scroll a page.
On Firefox it works correctly. The page scrolls up just enough to make what had been the bottom visible line become the top visible line.
On Chrome and Safari it scrolls a few lines too far. If I go in to the inspector and delete that menu overlay it is then clear that it scrolled the amount that would have been correct had the menu overlay not been there.
As I said I see this quite a bit around the web. I'm curious why. Is there a bug in calculating the size of the visible region in Webkit browsers in the presence of overlays? Are the sites using some non-standard CSS that is only supported in Firefox? Is this one of those things that you just have to have separate code for different browsers and these sites didn't realize that and only tested with Firefox so didn't realize they weren't done yet?
On Firefox it works correctly. The page scrolls up just enough to make what had been the bottom visible line become the top visible line.
On Chrome and Safari it scrolls a few lines too far. If I go in to the inspector and delete that menu overlay it is then clear that it scrolled the amount that would have been correct had the menu overlay not been there.
As I said I see this quite a bit around the web. I'm curious why. Is there a bug in calculating the size of the visible region in Webkit browsers in the presence of overlays? Are the sites using some non-standard CSS that is only supported in Firefox? Is this one of those things that you just have to have separate code for different browsers and these sites didn't realize that and only tested with Firefox so didn't realize they weren't done yet?
I see that all the time too. It's extremely frustrating , but i think the solution is that browsers should implement some sort of visual indication of where the bottom of the screen moves.
Lately I don't seem to have time to feel lonely. Can't say that I don't miss it sometimes. I feel like being lonely every now and then is good for you. Being lonely all the time, that's a different story.
Our language has wisely sensed the two sides of being alone. It has created the word loneliness to express the pain of being alone. And it has created the word solitude to express the glory of being alone. - Paul Tillich
> But in a future where robots sound and objects look increasingly sentient, we might be less inclined to seek out behaviors to abate our loneliness. Indeed, one recent study titled "Products as pals" found that exposure to or interaction with anthropomorphic products — which have characteristics of being alive — partially satisfy our social needs, which means the human-like robots of tomorrow could kill our dwindling urge to be around other humans.
So basically Chobits was right all along.
https://youtu.be/aB50gL4rpiM
So basically Chobits was right all along.
https://youtu.be/aB50gL4rpiM
Or Tom Hank's character in Castaway, putting a face and hair on a basketball and calling it Wilson.
As someone who's fairly reclusive outside of work I'm frightened by this prospect. I'd rather be anxious and have to deal with people from time to time than be so utterly alone that I'm forced to treat my cereal box as a surrogate for a friend. That just sounds horrible on so many levels.
Swap out 'cereal box' for 'WoW char' or similar and it's already a reality for some.
I'm always amused by people expressing alarm from future things that they won't be there to experience. Like a Victorian ranting about Tinder. Who cares what you think? You'll be dead, and the people alive then certainly won't share your reservations.
It's more about what makes us human is being lost. The ability to socialize, even if you're bad at it like me, is a big part of the human condition. If we let capitalists continue to alienate us from each other all we'll become is just smarter cows. And my complaint isn't even remotely like that of a Victorian complaining about Tinder for one good reason: I don't care with whom you socialize or how. But latching onto corporate brands in place of a fully sentient being is a recipe for permanent slave mentality. And I'd rather someone make a friend with a robot (like in the film Robot and Frank) than pledge undying love to a corporation. A corporation and its "brands" aren't our friends. It's why I despise companies like Apple because they've tried (and in some part succeeded) in shoving the lifestyle consumerism crap down our throats.
1) People get massive political signalling points by talking about global warming. Where's my social love for being concerned about loneliness? Just being realistic about things, you are far more likely to suffer from loneliness in the future than from global warming.
2) Also relates to attitudes toward having children, such as not having them, or trying to raise them into my ethnic cultural beliefs, or let my culture die and the kids can get their culture from TV and the internet (which you'd like to think would be PBS and HN, but could just as likely be "married with children" reruns and 4chan)
2) Also relates to attitudes toward having children, such as not having them, or trying to raise them into my ethnic cultural beliefs, or let my culture die and the kids can get their culture from TV and the internet (which you'd like to think would be PBS and HN, but could just as likely be "married with children" reruns and 4chan)
I don't know, that attitude seems awfully shortsighted to me. You could dismiss efforts to save the environment and combat climate change by the same logic: "Who knows, maybe our children will be just fine with us radically altering the ecosystem..."
I think the argument ignores that:
a) we can make some educated guesses about future generations - based on ourselves and our own ancestors;
b) the future might be here sooner than you think. To take climate change again as an analogy, first predictions have seen the deadline for CO2 adjustment somewhere around 2100. Over the years, the deadline has been moved further and further back. Similarly, 2050 is an estimate that might as well be wrong, given the current pace of technological innovation.
I think the argument ignores that:
a) we can make some educated guesses about future generations - based on ourselves and our own ancestors;
b) the future might be here sooner than you think. To take climate change again as an analogy, first predictions have seen the deadline for CO2 adjustment somewhere around 2100. Over the years, the deadline has been moved further and further back. Similarly, 2050 is an estimate that might as well be wrong, given the current pace of technological innovation.
I didn't read the study, but my guess is they're not taking about literally pretending that things are people (like in the movie examples) - but that you develop empathy towards a device and interact with it/attach value to it in ways that were reserved for social interactions before.
If you replace the box of cereal with a smartphone, I think you can already spot that today. I also know at least two people who have given their cleaning robot a name and (semi-seriously) treat it as a pet. And let's not even start with realdolls...
If you replace the box of cereal with a smartphone, I think you can already spot that today. I also know at least two people who have given their cleaning robot a name and (semi-seriously) treat it as a pet. And let's not even start with realdolls...
That's creepy TBH. Even though I have some respect for those who made things like a smart phone possible I don't see my iPhone as indispensable beyond its utility. I won't cry when my iPhone finally stops working, so I can't imagine how anyone could develop any affection for theirs.
I doubt it. I spend my days looking at this "smart city" trend, it seems that in the future modern services will allow cities and city planners to focus on more things like community spaces and social infrastructure. As it stands today I'd hazard over 85% of the productivity within a city at the government layer is spend managing and dealing with existing infrastructure. Very bullish on cities. Highly recommend reading
Triumph of the City: How Our Greatest Invention Makes Us Richer, Smarter, Greener, Healthier, and Happier
by Edward Glaeser
The key to making societies not lonely is communal dining areas for every 100 or so people.
It worked for Britain in WWII.[1]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Restaurant
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Restaurant
Anthropologically, humans are primarily tribal creatures who form strong bonds with small groups. One consistent thing across most cultures is that although everyone goes hunting and farming during the day, at night they gather around the fire or table and share. It works because this is the way we have evolved to live.
No, we'll still have Tinder... for our avatar-on-avatar VR sexcapades.
* Demolition Man sex scene - YouTube || https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k80UQWWUIYs
* Demolition Man sex scene - YouTube || https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k80UQWWUIYs
I think the claim made in the article, that minor social interactions like receiving a "Thank You" from the cashier instead of using a self-checkout booth, prevents loneliness is really dubious. In fact, the article also mentions shallow conversations as creating loneliness, so it contradicts itself there. I don't get what the article is trying to say.
Loneliness is a communication, information and anxiety problem. The first two, communication and information, are problems technology can easily help solve. Helping people getting over their anxieties is way harder of course, but technology used properly can help there too.
People/governments just needs to take the issue seriously and start doing stuff to solve it.
Loneliness is a communication, information and anxiety problem. The first two, communication and information, are problems technology can easily help solve. Helping people getting over their anxieties is way harder of course, but technology used properly can help there too.
People/governments just needs to take the issue seriously and start doing stuff to solve it.
"Loneliness is a communication, information and anxiety problem. The first two, communication and information, are problems technology can easily help solve. Helping people getting over their anxieties is way harder of course, but technology used properly can help there too."
I find it utterly fascinating that this summer is the 50 yr anniversary of the "Summer of Love" where the problems of loneliness of young boomers was solved by contraceptives, weed, and music, and now that generation is in total control culturally and politically, the solution to the problem half a century later is obviously a really nice new fitbit.
(edited to add, and both solutions were the most "California" solutions imaginable in that era)
I find it utterly fascinating that this summer is the 50 yr anniversary of the "Summer of Love" where the problems of loneliness of young boomers was solved by contraceptives, weed, and music, and now that generation is in total control culturally and politically, the solution to the problem half a century later is obviously a really nice new fitbit.
(edited to add, and both solutions were the most "California" solutions imaginable in that era)
The boomers are only partly in total control now; the Xers also have a lot of control.
Regardless, the hippies who went to the Summer of Love are a tiny minority of the Boomers. Most boomers were rather conservative. The hippies either died out or faded into obscurity, while their mainstream peers are the ones who have taken control of society and given us a giant mess.
Regardless, the hippies who went to the Summer of Love are a tiny minority of the Boomers. Most boomers were rather conservative. The hippies either died out or faded into obscurity, while their mainstream peers are the ones who have taken control of society and given us a giant mess.
The article seems like three disconnected stories. I'll try to do a better job of combining the stories:
When the automation eliminated the blue collar jobs, my friends, if I had them, would laugh because we are white collar.
When the automation eliminated the rural jobs, my friends, if I had them, would laugh because we were superior urbanites.
When the automation eliminates my white collar urbanite job, there is no one left to laugh at me, because urbanites are lonely and have no friends.
But on the bright side we'll spend the income we don't have, from the jobs that don't exist anymore, on fitbits to make us happy, instead of spending the money on other people. The progressive stack was to eliminate the family, no more babies, then eliminate the pets, no more fur babies, finally eliminate the jobs to eliminate the human-like machines such as fitbits. The last step will be eliminating the remaining people.
Devices becoming more human like, is good, because humans won't be able to afford living in the expensive cities without any jobs and no personal relationships. In the old days people worked and retired to a pension and were given a pocketwatch they don't need at a retirement party. In the new days people will be downsized as population only increases and the number of jobs only decreases, teased by being shown a fitbit they can't afford and don't need, and left to die under the freeway overpasses unemployed.
Although historical experience indicates the outcome will look a lot like Mogadishu shaken with the French Revolution and a sprinking of Detroit, we would like to think instead that our biggest problem will be solving loneliness, because lonely people are unproductive. People have to be productive, British Stiff Upper Lip and all that, even though we no longer have any jobs for them to be productive in. If they were not lonely they would not notice they are unemployed.
I like to think I did a better more serious and thoughtful job than the article. Its a little funny because the topic is of course ridiculous but I still think I made numerous serious points.
When the automation eliminated the blue collar jobs, my friends, if I had them, would laugh because we are white collar.
When the automation eliminated the rural jobs, my friends, if I had them, would laugh because we were superior urbanites.
When the automation eliminates my white collar urbanite job, there is no one left to laugh at me, because urbanites are lonely and have no friends.
But on the bright side we'll spend the income we don't have, from the jobs that don't exist anymore, on fitbits to make us happy, instead of spending the money on other people. The progressive stack was to eliminate the family, no more babies, then eliminate the pets, no more fur babies, finally eliminate the jobs to eliminate the human-like machines such as fitbits. The last step will be eliminating the remaining people.
Devices becoming more human like, is good, because humans won't be able to afford living in the expensive cities without any jobs and no personal relationships. In the old days people worked and retired to a pension and were given a pocketwatch they don't need at a retirement party. In the new days people will be downsized as population only increases and the number of jobs only decreases, teased by being shown a fitbit they can't afford and don't need, and left to die under the freeway overpasses unemployed.
Although historical experience indicates the outcome will look a lot like Mogadishu shaken with the French Revolution and a sprinking of Detroit, we would like to think instead that our biggest problem will be solving loneliness, because lonely people are unproductive. People have to be productive, British Stiff Upper Lip and all that, even though we no longer have any jobs for them to be productive in. If they were not lonely they would not notice they are unemployed.
I like to think I did a better more serious and thoughtful job than the article. Its a little funny because the topic is of course ridiculous but I still think I made numerous serious points.
Your comment reminds me of Black Mirror ep Fifteen Million Merits.
I am reminded of the videogame in Spike Jonze's "Her" in which the main protagonist after coming home from his day job ghostwriting hikes through landscapes with his AI buddy.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr7aI0RqtXc
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr7aI0RqtXc
Wait..cities aren't already utterly lonely?
People will organically cluster to optimize proximity to others + get personal space when they need it.
Hopefully we will reject the clown-car of urban design and return to our organic roots.
It is costing people their livelihoods, their soul, their spirit.
All because someone who dresses like a penguin has a broken model of the world.