Leonard Cohen Makes It Darker(newyorker.com)
newyorker.com
Leonard Cohen Makes It Darker
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/17/leonard-cohen-makes-it-darker
59 comments
I don't see the need to bristle when the rest of that paragraph dispells any notion of an "impoverished poet": "Cohen, whose family was both prominent and cultivated, had an ironical view of himself. He was a bohemian with a cushion whose first purchases in London were an Olivetti typewriter and a blue raincoat at Burberry."
This blue raincoat? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohk3DP5fMCg
Indeed. From Wikipedia:
In the liner notes to 1975's The Best of Leonard Cohen, which includes the song, he mentions that the famous blue raincoat to which he refers actually belonged to him, and not someone else:
I had a good raincoat then, a Burberry I got in London in 1959. Elizabeth thought I looked like a spider in it. That was probably why she wouldn't go to Greece with me. It hung more heroically when I took out the lining, and achieved glory when the frayed sleeves were repaired with a little leather. Things were clear. I knew how to dress in those days. It was stolen from Marianne's loft in New York City sometime during the early seventies. I wasn't wearing it very much toward the end.
In the liner notes to 1975's The Best of Leonard Cohen, which includes the song, he mentions that the famous blue raincoat to which he refers actually belonged to him, and not someone else:
I had a good raincoat then, a Burberry I got in London in 1959. Elizabeth thought I looked like a spider in it. That was probably why she wouldn't go to Greece with me. It hung more heroically when I took out the lining, and achieved glory when the frayed sleeves were repaired with a little leather. Things were clear. I knew how to dress in those days. It was stolen from Marianne's loft in New York City sometime during the early seventies. I wasn't wearing it very much toward the end.
That is a fair point, well made. I guess the bristling got the better of me.
And in those days, Burberry was actually an upper-class brand without the downmarket associations it has these days.
And in those days, Burberry was actually an upper-class brand without the downmarket associations it has these days.
Burberry still is in a lot of ways. Chav culture riffs on it have degraded the public image a bit but a Burberry coat probably won't go for less than a couple grand.
The grant would have been a one-time grant, presumably for the year (or possibly 6 months).
Are you talking about your 1970 father's wage being $1500 per year, or per month, or per pay period?
The bristling at the journalist is fine (after all, $3000/year in 1960 is approximately equivalent to $24,000/year in today's dollars, with which a single man could live quite well in Greece). But let's make sure we're comparing apples to apples.
Canadian minimum wage in 1970 was 1.75/hr, which comes out to well over $3000/year assuming 40/hr weeks. So I'm guessing you're talking per month or other pay period.
Are you talking about your 1970 father's wage being $1500 per year, or per month, or per pay period?
The bristling at the journalist is fine (after all, $3000/year in 1960 is approximately equivalent to $24,000/year in today's dollars, with which a single man could live quite well in Greece). But let's make sure we're comparing apples to apples.
Canadian minimum wage in 1970 was 1.75/hr, which comes out to well over $3000/year assuming 40/hr weeks. So I'm guessing you're talking per month or other pay period.
I'm talking per year. A historical exchange rate calculator tells me 3000 CAD was approx 1000 GBP in 1960. According to my father, in 1970 he earned 600 GBP per annum. That was before overtime, which employers pretty much made mandatory by paying such a low basic wage.
He was certainly paid way below the average wage at the time, and as the decade progressed he moved on to better paid work. There was no minimum wage in the UK until 1999, so unscrupulous employers would pay what they could get away with. I think it was something of a low point, and unsurprisingly, the 1970s is remembered as a decade of workers' strikes as they demanded better pay. People often moan about it, but I think it improved our circumstances at the time.
He was certainly paid way below the average wage at the time, and as the decade progressed he moved on to better paid work. There was no minimum wage in the UK until 1999, so unscrupulous employers would pay what they could get away with. I think it was something of a low point, and unsurprisingly, the 1970s is remembered as a decade of workers' strikes as they demanded better pay. People often moan about it, but I think it improved our circumstances at the time.
Ah ok, that makes sense now. When you wrote "in the same country", I thought you meant in Canada, since that's where Cohen and the grant in question were from. You meant the same country where Cohen stayed for part of the grant, before he went to Greece.
In any case, I sympathize with your complaints about the coverage, since $3000 CAD wasn't a bad deal at all for a single person in 1960, particularly for doing what he loved. Certainly not "scraping by" or having to make sacrifices like your father would have been doing in 1970, with a family to feed. Glad he secured better paying work.
I didn't realize UK only got minimum wage in 1999, wow. It's surprising to me that the US had minimum wage for decades when the UK did not.
In any case, I sympathize with your complaints about the coverage, since $3000 CAD wasn't a bad deal at all for a single person in 1960, particularly for doing what he loved. Certainly not "scraping by" or having to make sacrifices like your father would have been doing in 1970, with a family to feed. Glad he secured better paying work.
I didn't realize UK only got minimum wage in 1999, wow. It's surprising to me that the US had minimum wage for decades when the UK did not.
FYI, drugs are always cheap or free for good looking young poets.
Leonard Cohen is absolutely one of the best (Canadian!) artists of the last century. Seriously; if you have the time, do what you can to discover his music. Songs of Leonard Cohen, Various Positions, and of course I'm Your Man are all must listen albums.
I'd also recommend checking out his poetry. His earlier stuff especially. This is a good place to start: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/2a/8c/98/2a8c980c4....
Check out Irving Layton as well (another Canadian poet/professor). Really good stuff, and clearly influenced Leonard Cohen's writing.
Check out Irving Layton as well (another Canadian poet/professor). Really good stuff, and clearly influenced Leonard Cohen's writing.
Dont forget Gord Downie, he could probably win a nobel for is poetry also!
It was in Bobcaygeon, I saw the constellations
Reveal themselves, one star at time
His poetry is good, his music, not so much.
The people down-voting you clearly haven't listened to 'Jazz Police'.
Seriously, he's an excellent songwriter, but much of his music is ruined by the choices made in terms of 80s synth stuff and disappointing backing vocals. 'Birds on a Wire' is a great album, because it doesn't have any of that nonsense in it. Some of his other albums are really good too, but I'd say half of his discography is disappointing, despite having excellent songwriting.
Seriously, he's an excellent songwriter, but much of his music is ruined by the choices made in terms of 80s synth stuff and disappointing backing vocals. 'Birds on a Wire' is a great album, because it doesn't have any of that nonsense in it. Some of his other albums are really good too, but I'd say half of his discography is disappointing, despite having excellent songwriting.
" 80s synth stuff and disappointing backing vocals"
At the risk of -20 downvotes, I was going to say the same thing.
The synths I can handle.
But the backing vocals ... my god man ... I don't know whether to laugh or cry. It's beyond kitsch.
You gotta take it as a 'package'.
I find that people who are more lyrical tend to like him. Musical people less so.
Often the chords make no sense, they go back and forth, there's no progression - but then you realize they are following the cadence of his prose, and then it kind of makes sense.
He's almost like a beat poet - where there's some 'muzak' in the background.
At the risk of -20 downvotes, I was going to say the same thing.
The synths I can handle.
But the backing vocals ... my god man ... I don't know whether to laugh or cry. It's beyond kitsch.
You gotta take it as a 'package'.
I find that people who are more lyrical tend to like him. Musical people less so.
Often the chords make no sense, they go back and forth, there's no progression - but then you realize they are following the cadence of his prose, and then it kind of makes sense.
He's almost like a beat poet - where there's some 'muzak' in the background.
Honestly, I consider it kind of tragic. I have some friends who are massive Cohen fans, and even they have to admit that it's just not good music. It's too late now, but I think it would be amazing if he had redone those albums at a later date and made them...good.
If anyone reading this can sing, start drinking whiskey and smoking cigars. You'll die early, but before you do, perfect your Cohen voice and fix this.
If anyone reading this can sing, start drinking whiskey and smoking cigars. You'll die early, but before you do, perfect your Cohen voice and fix this.
Those looking to try Cohen for the first time (or wanting to rediscover him) should listen to Live in London (2009), which IMHO is one of the best live albums ever. Great songs and some witty banter in between.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2p8je2
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2p8je2
My access point was catching Live at the Isle of Wight 1970 on PBS late one night. I'd recommend it as an intro to his earlier material.
I was fortunate enough to see him live quite a few times during his touring between 2008 and 2012, and I have never seen better live music in my life. In his late 70s he would give a 3+ hour performance full of energy and enthusiasm, it was truly incredible to see.
I've been to four (Oberhausen, Paris, Rotterdam, Amsterdam) and all evenings were fantastic. Highly doubt if I'll ever see a better show. It helped that the crowds were superb too!
edit: The other artists in the line-up were top-notch. My favorite part of the non-Cohen sung songs was the Webb Sisters with "Coming Back to You": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzX0Nk3sCJE
edit: The other artists in the line-up were top-notch. My favorite part of the non-Cohen sung songs was the Webb Sisters with "Coming Back to You": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzX0Nk3sCJE
I saw him once in 2009. Indeed maybe the best show I've ever seen. Part of it was due to the fact that I sort of knew I would never get to see him again, and part of it because it was a truly great performance.
> Dylan went on driving. After a while, he told Cohen that a famous songwriter of the day had told him, “O.K., Bob, you’re Number 1, but I’m Number 2.”
> Cohen smiled. “Then Dylan says to me, ‘As far as I’m concerned, Leonard, you’re Number 1. I’m Number Zero.’ Meaning, as I understood it at the time—and I was not ready to dispute it—that his work was beyond measure and my work was pretty good.”
Pretty fitting after today's Nobel prize award. Cohen is definitely up there with the greatest songwriters and poets of this generation.
> Cohen smiled. “Then Dylan says to me, ‘As far as I’m concerned, Leonard, you’re Number 1. I’m Number Zero.’ Meaning, as I understood it at the time—and I was not ready to dispute it—that his work was beyond measure and my work was pretty good.”
Pretty fitting after today's Nobel prize award. Cohen is definitely up there with the greatest songwriters and poets of this generation.
Is that where Steve Jobs got the idea? I know he was a huge fan of Dylan.
http://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/mannerisms/yarns/appl...
http://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/mannerisms/yarns/appl...
As a Canadian I especially love Leonard Cohen, I think it's wonderful people are learning more about him and his music, I grew up listening to it. If you're into poetry, his poems are mostly his songs, and his songs his poems, so if you don't like his voice (It's an acquired taste much like Hawksley Workman) - I highly recommend reading some of his poetry, it's quite beautiful. :)
How did The New Yorker get such a well timed profile?
Did they know in advance that he would win the Nobel Prize?
Did they know in advance that he would win the Nobel Prize?
It would be impressive to know that in advance, given that actually it was Bob Dylan who won it.
(But perhaps they were tipped off that it would be a singer-songwriter, and they made the wrong guess.)
(But perhaps they were tipped off that it would be a singer-songwriter, and they made the wrong guess.)
As much as I love Bob Dylan, I wouldn't have been upset had Leonard Cohen been awarded the Nobel Prize for Literature. He's written two novels, several volumes of poetry, and, of course, has made his own irreplaceable poetic contributions to American songwriting.
He would definitely deserve it. But he's Canadian so his contributions would more correctly be classified as going towards Canadian songwriting.
Haha... Valid point. I'd have to explore the intricacies of Canadian songwriting before I could confidently make the assertion, but my feeling is that Cohen's songwriting falls in line with the American tradition.
I've explored the intricacies of Canadian songwriting. J Biebs.
(Biased Canadian)
I'd say Cohen is entirely Canadian. He has this very self-deprecating humor that you don't really get from Americans.
I'd say Cohen is entirely Canadian. He has this very self-deprecating humor that you don't really get from Americans.
I'll concede that Cohen is a Canadian songwriter. It's interesting to me, though, that he launched his music career in New York.
That's where all the good record labels and record producers were. All good Canadian musicians/actors/directors go to the US. They largely leave Canada behind without much mention of Canada during their careers besides Drake and to a lesser extent Neil Young being the exception.
Leonard's first album had amazing production by american producer John Simon (who also worked with The Band, Simon & Garfunkel, Janis Joplin), probably the best in Cohen's entire career, so he chose well deciding to work out of Columbia's studio in NYC...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songs_of_Leonard_Cohen
Leonard's first album had amazing production by american producer John Simon (who also worked with The Band, Simon & Garfunkel, Janis Joplin), probably the best in Cohen's entire career, so he chose well deciding to work out of Columbia's studio in NYC...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songs_of_Leonard_Cohen
I'm struggling with the use of the word American here, both you and the parent posters. In my opinion all Canadians are just as much Americans as anyone from the USA.
Not sure what else you can call someone from USA, so I guess it makes a bit of sense.
Not sure what else you can call someone from USA, so I guess it makes a bit of sense.
> As much as I love Bob Dylan, I wouldn't have been upset had Leonard Cohen been awarded the Nobel Prize for Literature.
I would not be surprised that one of the lesser reasons Dylan was awarded this year was to open the door to others including Cohen in future years.
Not to mention that Dylan's awarding might have the more subtle effect of encouraging contemporary musicians, if they are not already doing so, to commit to more enduring songwriting than otherwise just making a weekly Top 40.
I would not be surprised that one of the lesser reasons Dylan was awarded this year was to open the door to others including Cohen in future years.
Not to mention that Dylan's awarding might have the more subtle effect of encouraging contemporary musicians, if they are not already doing so, to commit to more enduring songwriting than otherwise just making a weekly Top 40.
One of the episodes of Revisionist History talks about genius and
different types of innovation, through the episode they talk about
Cohen and how his song Hallelujah was not an overnight success. Cohen
worked on it over 5 years to get it to a point where he was
comfortable with!
Dylan is also mentioned in that episode, since they had some kind of mutual admiration. Apparently Dylan and Cohen meetup at some point and Dylan asked Leonard how long it took him to write Hallelujah and he lied saying "2 years". Then Cohen asked Dylan how long it took him write "I and I" and Dylan said: "oh, like 15 minutes".
If you are interested in exploring more, I annotated a bunch of fun facts from that episode https://www.listeningcrowd.com/podcasts/1-revisionist-histor...
Dylan is also mentioned in that episode, since they had some kind of mutual admiration. Apparently Dylan and Cohen meetup at some point and Dylan asked Leonard how long it took him to write Hallelujah and he lied saying "2 years". Then Cohen asked Dylan how long it took him write "I and I" and Dylan said: "oh, like 15 minutes".
If you are interested in exploring more, I annotated a bunch of fun facts from that episode https://www.listeningcrowd.com/podcasts/1-revisionist-histor...
This exchange also included in the linked New Yorker post:
>Over the decades, Dylan and Cohen saw each other from time to time. In the early eighties, Cohen went to see Dylan perform in Paris, and the next morning in a café they talked about their latest work. Dylan was especially interested in “Hallelujah.” Even before three hundred other performers made “Hallelujah” famous with their cover versions, long before the song was included on the soundtrack for “Shrek” and as a staple on “American Idol,” Dylan recognized the beauty of its marriage of the sacred and the profane. He asked Cohen how long it took him to write.
> “Two years,” Cohen lied.
> Actually, “Hallelujah” had taken him five years. He drafted dozens of verses and then it was years more before he settled on a final version. In several writing sessions, he found himself in his underwear, banging his head against a hotel-room floor.
> Cohen told Dylan, “I really like ‘I and I,’ ” a song that appeared on Dylan’s album “Infidels.” “How long did it take you to write that?”
> “About fifteen minutes,” Dylan said.
> When I asked Cohen about that exchange, he said, “That’s just the way the cards are dealt.” As for Dylan’s comment that Cohen’s songs at the time were “like prayers,” Cohen seemed dismissive of any attempt to plumb the mysteries of creation.
>Over the decades, Dylan and Cohen saw each other from time to time. In the early eighties, Cohen went to see Dylan perform in Paris, and the next morning in a café they talked about their latest work. Dylan was especially interested in “Hallelujah.” Even before three hundred other performers made “Hallelujah” famous with their cover versions, long before the song was included on the soundtrack for “Shrek” and as a staple on “American Idol,” Dylan recognized the beauty of its marriage of the sacred and the profane. He asked Cohen how long it took him to write.
> “Two years,” Cohen lied.
> Actually, “Hallelujah” had taken him five years. He drafted dozens of verses and then it was years more before he settled on a final version. In several writing sessions, he found himself in his underwear, banging his head against a hotel-room floor.
> Cohen told Dylan, “I really like ‘I and I,’ ” a song that appeared on Dylan’s album “Infidels.” “How long did it take you to write that?”
> “About fifteen minutes,” Dylan said.
> When I asked Cohen about that exchange, he said, “That’s just the way the cards are dealt.” As for Dylan’s comment that Cohen’s songs at the time were “like prayers,” Cohen seemed dismissive of any attempt to plumb the mysteries of creation.
Bob Dylan is mentioned a lot in the article.
I guess it's a promo piece because of his new album coming out next week.
> "At eighty-two, the troubadour has another album coming. Like him, it is obsessed with mortality, God-infused, and funny"
Think it's because of the album
Think it's because of the album
News papers pre-emptively write obituaries for famous older people, so they have a bunch of stuff already researched and written for Cohen.
I work for a media company and one day a senior subeditor for one of Australia's preeminent newspapers called to complain that one of his writers had been locked out of Active Directory. When I found out the writer was a permanent staff member who did the obits, I removed the end date from the account and advised the sub that unlike the subjects he wrote about, the obit-writer's account would never expire.
I was gratified that I got a guffaw, and we ended the phone call.
I was gratified that I got a guffaw, and we ended the phone call.
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As others have mentioned, there are a few factors in play. The interview mentions the letter he recently wrote to his dying ex-love, where he said himself "I am not far behind". Connected to that, his single from the new album is more or less an invitation for death to come for him. Those things likely triggered the sense of urgency in some reporters :).
Since Cohen started off a poet and he is generally cited as one of the singer-songwriters whose songs are most like poetry.
So maybe he's next.
So maybe he's next.
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Very funny.
If someone told me that there would come a day when two of the first three HN posts will be about Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen, I would have dismissed them as high or delusional. Turns out that I would be very wrong.
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Why is this on Hacker News? It is a promotional piece about the new album he's releasing, isn't it?
But the opening paragraph made me bristle slightly: "He got by on a three-thousand-dollar grant from the Canada Council for the Arts. This was 1960..."
I'm assuming that's Canadian dollars. So he was living abroad doing what he loved, and presumably not breaking much of a sweat.
No less than ten years later, in the same country, my parents were struggling to bring up two children on my father's wage which was half that amount - and for a 40-hour week of very dangerous, manual work.
Now obviously people aspire to successful, creative careers, and most people don't begrudge them that, especially if they bring a great deal of joy to others. But I notice there is a phenomenon quite common in journalism, esp. regarding artistic figures, a great many of whom were actually born into relatively privileged circumstances, and a number of whom, especially during the sixties, wanted to display their bohemian credentials by living in somewhat spartan conditions. Strangely, however, they can always afford an air fare (decades before budgets airlines), and often inherit a house here or there, and always able to afford recreational drugs.
The image of the impoverished poet has long had journalistic appeal, but it is often a lie. They were actually in a very privileged position compared to 99% of people.