Ask HN: Is it right to call yourself a Hacker?
20 コメント
Now that this subject is open, let me say it: I don't think the term hacker really reflects the concept of Hacker News. Startups are focused on entrepreneurship and revenue, there is a hacker side to it but the hacker aspect is not the central point. If there would be a real hacker news, building exceptional or interesting technology would be more of a central point than entrepreneurship. E.g. Grand Challenge, or some new technology that would change the way internet works.
I don't think the term hacker really reflects the concept of Hacker News.
Sure, but what one word could? I'm not sure there's any word that you could replace it with that would work better.
The mandate of the site is "stuff that would be interesting to a hacker; i.e. an intelligent person who tinkers."
"Exceptional or interesting technology" is 100% on-topic. Please submit some more of it! This site isn't necessarily meant to be "entrepreneur news". One may ask why, therefore, there are so many business-centric articles; I think it's probably because there's a critical mass of YC people here (both funded entrepreneurs, potential applicants, and interested fans). The community works with a lot of different technologies, and a lot of different hobbies which wax and wane over time, but YC people are by definition very interested in business and they're interested right now.
Sure, but what one word could? I'm not sure there's any word that you could replace it with that would work better.
The mandate of the site is "stuff that would be interesting to a hacker; i.e. an intelligent person who tinkers."
"Exceptional or interesting technology" is 100% on-topic. Please submit some more of it! This site isn't necessarily meant to be "entrepreneur news". One may ask why, therefore, there are so many business-centric articles; I think it's probably because there's a critical mass of YC people here (both funded entrepreneurs, potential applicants, and interested fans). The community works with a lot of different technologies, and a lot of different hobbies which wax and wane over time, but YC people are by definition very interested in business and they're interested right now.
When other people call you a "Hacker", then you are a "Hacker".... until then you are a "Software Developer".
It's like being called "cool" -- you cannot apply it to yourself. When people ask me what I do, I tell them that I program computers.
I would say, when other hackers (or computer programmers) call you hackers, because normal people don't even know what an hacker is.
I wholeheartedly agree with the first part of this statement. I've been called a "hacker" plenty of times, and once that happens, I say it's fair to call yourself one, but not before.
No one would have ever called me a software developer. There are many kinds of hackers, and not all of them are coders or developers.
No one would have ever called me a software developer. There are many kinds of hackers, and not all of them are coders or developers.
I whole heartedly disagree with the first part of your statement. I considered me to be a hacker long time before I got called 'hacker' by my peers and clients.
As I already wrote, I do tell some people that I am a hacker. Most of the times this a result of the question: 'So you are a hacker?' After I explained what I do.
Saying you are only a hacker if your peers call you that just raises the mystery around the term hacker.
Last part of your statement I fully agree to. Hacking at first has nothing to do with software or hardware. For me it is using stuff in a way that is was not intent to be used. Being in Africa right now, I see a lot of clever hacks, where people use for example climate control devices to get more or less clean water, reusing garbage to build new stuff and so on.
I am more concerned about the phrase 'expert'. This is imo something you can not label yourself. And even if.. it sounds always kind of strange to me.
As I already wrote, I do tell some people that I am a hacker. Most of the times this a result of the question: 'So you are a hacker?' After I explained what I do.
Saying you are only a hacker if your peers call you that just raises the mystery around the term hacker.
Last part of your statement I fully agree to. Hacking at first has nothing to do with software or hardware. For me it is using stuff in a way that is was not intent to be used. Being in Africa right now, I see a lot of clever hacks, where people use for example climate control devices to get more or less clean water, reusing garbage to build new stuff and so on.
I am more concerned about the phrase 'expert'. This is imo something you can not label yourself. And even if.. it sounds always kind of strange to me.
++ on "expert"
But seriously, it seems "hacker" is thrown in self-reference too much. While anyone can do something clever to perform "a hack," to actually be a "hacker" takes a mind-set, not an accomplishment.
People can become hackers by taking on that mind-set, and they may very well be a tenable hacker without having been gifted the label by another.
I'll agree with many other comments though, in saying that "hacker" is a label that should only be used among folks who you are relatively certain already understand the concept. Example: Calling yourself a hacker over a business lunch with non-technical investors? Bad idea. Always. Even if you really are one.
Either way, critical thinkers should be able to condense their function to a single sentence without pulling out stigma-laden memes. They should also recognize that "What do you do?" deserves a response more four words long.
But seriously, it seems "hacker" is thrown in self-reference too much. While anyone can do something clever to perform "a hack," to actually be a "hacker" takes a mind-set, not an accomplishment.
People can become hackers by taking on that mind-set, and they may very well be a tenable hacker without having been gifted the label by another.
I'll agree with many other comments though, in saying that "hacker" is a label that should only be used among folks who you are relatively certain already understand the concept. Example: Calling yourself a hacker over a business lunch with non-technical investors? Bad idea. Always. Even if you really are one.
Either way, critical thinkers should be able to condense their function to a single sentence without pulling out stigma-laden memes. They should also recognize that "What do you do?" deserves a response more four words long.
Totally agree.
The closest level you can call your self is
Software Engineering Ninja
The closest level you can call your self is
Software Engineering Ninja
[deleted]
I don't think I'd ever use that term. To someone who doesn't know what it is, it sounds shady. To someone who does know, it's overly vague. It's like saying "I'm a businessman."
Fair: Answer with a noun, "I am a computer programmer."
Good: Answer with a verb, "I program computers."
Better: Answer with a verb for myself and a noun for the result, "I program web applications."
Even Better: Answer with a verb for myself, a noun for the result, and another noun for my customer, "I program web applications for doctors."
Best: Answer with a verb for myself, a noun for the result, another noun for my customer, and another noun to describe my customers' benefits, "I program web applications that help doctors give better care to their patients."
Good: Answer with a verb, "I program computers."
Better: Answer with a verb for myself and a noun for the result, "I program web applications."
Even Better: Answer with a verb for myself, a noun for the result, and another noun for my customer, "I program web applications for doctors."
Best: Answer with a verb for myself, a noun for the result, another noun for my customer, and another noun to describe my customers' benefits, "I program web applications that help doctors give better care to their patients."
I used to spend a lot of time figuring out which way I would describe what I did to people who weren't in the industry.
Now I just say that I'm in software, and it turns out that's enough 95% of the time.
Now I just say that I'm in software, and it turns out that's enough 95% of the time.
How many regular HN readers think of themselves foremost as computer programmers (by whatever name)?
The responses posted here so far make it sound like the solid majority. Yet there must be more people on here who, like me, just happen to do a lot of programming in the course of pursuing other goals.
In short, I tend to tell people "I do xxx, which involves writing a lot of code" (rather than saying "I'm a programmer"). For this reason, I often find the self-representation here a bit strange. I tend to think of programming as just a tool to get work done, rather than the work in of itself. A lot of HN comments read to me as if a carpenter described his job as "swinging a hammer."
The responses posted here so far make it sound like the solid majority. Yet there must be more people on here who, like me, just happen to do a lot of programming in the course of pursuing other goals.
In short, I tend to tell people "I do xxx, which involves writing a lot of code" (rather than saying "I'm a programmer"). For this reason, I often find the self-representation here a bit strange. I tend to think of programming as just a tool to get work done, rather than the work in of itself. A lot of HN comments read to me as if a carpenter described his job as "swinging a hammer."
I just tell people I'm a software developer, because all I do is develop software.
My title is "User Interface Engineer". I tell people "I'm a Professional Nerd for (X)".
It shows that I have a sense of humor about my job (a job that to many people is inscrutable).
Many people in our own field don't know the difference between a web designer/developer/programmer/UI/UX/DBA, and I figure that I'll take a crack at whatever needs to get done, so why be limited to a label?
I feel like hacker has too many negative connotations outside our tiny community that 'gets it', especially since I live in DC, which is more traditional about this stuff.
It shows that I have a sense of humor about my job (a job that to many people is inscrutable).
Many people in our own field don't know the difference between a web designer/developer/programmer/UI/UX/DBA, and I figure that I'll take a crack at whatever needs to get done, so why be limited to a label?
I feel like hacker has too many negative connotations outside our tiny community that 'gets it', especially since I live in DC, which is more traditional about this stuff.
I would say it depends on the person your talking to. To most people, a "hacker" is a "cracker". A geek, loves card games and anime. A nerd loves thick books. But a programmer? They do magical things to computers, something people acceptedly don't understand, and theres no hard stereotypes regarding.
You certainly don't want to have to describe yourself too much. The more you try to describe, the less credibility you'll have. In my opinion, programmer is wonderfully enchanting to people who are not versed in... hacker lingo.
You certainly don't want to have to describe yourself too much. The more you try to describe, the less credibility you'll have. In my opinion, programmer is wonderfully enchanting to people who are not versed in... hacker lingo.
I do sometimes tell people that I am a hacker.
But I make sure that the people do know or understand that I am refering to the original meaning of the word; and that I am a good guy. For me, boiling an egg in a coffee machine is hacking. I do a lot of security work, but I tell the people that even if I would have nothing to do with security, I still could be a hacker.
About self-applying, imo this is ok if you can tell me about your last hack when I ask you about it.
..."Obviously you’re not a golfer."
About self-applying, imo this is ok if you can tell me about your last hack when I ask you about it.
..."Obviously you’re not a golfer."
I usually just tell normal people that I work with computers or that I keep bad guys out of bank accounts. It's a word that one can use in self-reference, but only once you've been accepted by other hackers as being one.
It doesn't apply only to the word "hacker", though. Many labels don't mean much until you've really earned it and been validated by peers.
It doesn't apply only to the word "hacker", though. Many labels don't mean much until you've really earned it and been validated by peers.
Assuming you work in the security side of tech, would it be possible to ask you a few questions regarding your career? I'm confused about starting my own. :-)
I do infosec in the financial industry, mostly UNIX, but a little mainframe and windows stuff as well when needed. I believe you can find my email address in my profile. Feel free to contact me.
The problem with calling yourself a hacker is that inevitably non-hackers don't understand what you mean. Then you have to explain yourself, and you end up seeming more interested in how you are labeled than what you do.
That or you end up sounding like Lex from Jurassic Park who "prefer(s) to be called a hacker".
That or you end up sounding like Lex from Jurassic Park who "prefer(s) to be called a hacker".
Depending on the person asking and whether or not I'm in a conversing mood, I'd use either 'programmer' or "I do computer stuff" while making that vague and silly typing-on-keyboard gesture with my hand.
I call myself a computer programmer because I program computers. Administration, Theory, Hardware, Engineering, those I consider supporting skills, not the main attraction.
Calling yourself a hacker makes you look like an egomaniac.
I tell people I program robot submarines.
And wait for the awesome to hit them.
And wait for the awesome to hit them.
So you do this? :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rpterEeRY8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rpterEeRY8
No. That's our competitor. And uh, they can keep that project :)
The real meaning of the word "hacker" has been lost forever (even in technical circles) so, no, I don't call myself an "hacker".
If I know the audience will understand it properly, I'll call myself a "geek". Otherwise, I'll just call myself a "computer systems administrator".
If I know the audience will understand it properly, I'll call myself a "geek". Otherwise, I'll just call myself a "computer systems administrator".
I tell people I'm a mad scientist.
dude just say this: "i am a programmer and i write business apps, but i've also played with assembly and know what O-notation is. I also know a lot about computer networks, and i've modded my computer on multiple occasions (I used a soldering iron)."
"Now, 'Dude', there's a name no man would self-apply where I come from. But then there was a lot about the Dude that didn't make a whole lot of sense..."