The Rise of Bluesky(cacm.acm.org)
cacm.acm.org
The Rise of Bluesky
https://cacm.acm.org/blogcacm/the-rise-of-bluesky/
82 コメント
Agreed about that they nailed the UX for BlueSky in terms of “best possible Twitterlike”.
That said, my biggest concern is how they plan to make money. With BlueSky being completely open at the moment, there is effectively no possible monetization strategy for them without making major breaking changes to the protocol.
For example, if they added ads to the app, someone could just write a client that didn’t have ads. Donations are another possibility, but probably wouldn’t be enough to pay for the servers.
That said, my biggest concern is how they plan to make money. With BlueSky being completely open at the moment, there is effectively no possible monetization strategy for them without making major breaking changes to the protocol.
For example, if they added ads to the app, someone could just write a client that didn’t have ads. Donations are another possibility, but probably wouldn’t be enough to pay for the servers.
Twitter had third party apps with no ads for over a decade without the sky falling. Few people use anything other than the default.
Fair point! Ditto for Reddit, I suppose.
Though, wasn’t Twitter’s financial situation starting to become somewhat dire toward the end of its pre-Musk life?
Though, wasn’t Twitter’s financial situation starting to become somewhat dire toward the end of its pre-Musk life?
I mean, define dire. It was not what you’d call the world’s most profitable company, and had negative income for two years, but it had been cash flow positive every year for years. Its valuation was… optimistic, but it’s not like it was going to collapse or anything.
In fairness, Mastodon apparently is working on quote-tweeting. AIUI to do it properly (ie, like Bluesky, with the ability to remove quote-tweets etc) requires changes to ActivityPub.
Bluesky, at least for now, has the advantage that they essentially control the protocol, and are the only significant user; they can move a lot quicker. It’ll be interesting to see how this evolves.
Bluesky, at least for now, has the advantage that they essentially control the protocol, and are the only significant user; they can move a lot quicker. It’ll be interesting to see how this evolves.
I vastly prefer comments as second class citizens anyway. Twitter felt like such a rat's nest sometimes.
It's so user-friendly that you get banned for sharing any remotely controversial opinion. Just like the good old days of Twitter!
Twitter/X is actually a balanced discourse site now. CNN even admitted that the party affiliation of its users went from majority-left (65/31) to split down the middle, 48/47. https://x.com/ScottJenningsKY/status/1861445812175147353
Twitter/X is actually a balanced discourse site now. CNN even admitted that the party affiliation of its users went from majority-left (65/31) to split down the middle, 48/47. https://x.com/ScottJenningsKY/status/1861445812175147353
Yes but mars man bad.
Ergo if everyone who hates mars man proclaims that the alternative to mars man website is “the next big thing” and “exploding in popularity” loudly and often enough, then maybe it will actually become popular outside the mars man bad crowd.
You know it’s manufactured when news outlets are comparing App Store download rankings of X and BlueSky. The new app versus the one that’s been around for nearly 20 years and already present on most devices it ever will be.
Meanwhile in the real world nobody has heard of BlueSky or really cares that people they’ll never interact with no longer get banned for being bigots on X.
Ergo if everyone who hates mars man proclaims that the alternative to mars man website is “the next big thing” and “exploding in popularity” loudly and often enough, then maybe it will actually become popular outside the mars man bad crowd.
You know it’s manufactured when news outlets are comparing App Store download rankings of X and BlueSky. The new app versus the one that’s been around for nearly 20 years and already present on most devices it ever will be.
Meanwhile in the real world nobody has heard of BlueSky or really cares that people they’ll never interact with no longer get banned for being bigots on X.
Change doesn’t happen all at once, right? Bluesky may still not have the mindshare — but two weeks ago they were 3-4 coin flips away from unseating Twitter, and now they only need one more. That they could become the leader in their category was unthinkable, and now it’s not.
Besides, 25 million users is plenty already.
Besides, 25 million users is plenty already.
That reads like massive cope.
Twitter fundamentally offers no killer feature. Being "around for nearly 20 years" means nothing.
Twitter fundamentally offers no killer feature. Being "around for nearly 20 years" means nothing.
It does when you’re talking about the number of recent App Store downloads.
Which I was.
Which I was.
It's still a factual statement to say it has a higher ranking and it's irrelevant to mention the 20 years thing. Someone said the car is the most popular vehicle in the last year and someone pipes up to say the horse and carriage has been around for three thousand years! Wow!
You’re either being intentionally obtuse or unintentionally missing the point.
News outlets giddily claiming some newly launched FPS game is going to replace Counter-Strike because it had more downloads in a given week in 2024 would be a far more apt analogy and equally as absurd.
News outlets giddily claiming some newly launched FPS game is going to replace Counter-Strike because it had more downloads in a given week in 2024 would be a far more apt analogy and equally as absurd.
And yet, something having more downloads than the Old Thing, is one of the first signs. No need to fuss over it and get defensive.
thanks you for this. I for one find your analorgy both highly apt and convincing!
> Twitter fundamentally offers no killer feature.
Less censorship is a pretty important feature
Less censorship is a pretty important feature
Twitter is all about censorship. That's its core feature now. Intimidation has been engineered into the platform. Suppression of unpopular or marginal opinions that don't align with the owner has been systematically added to the platform. Try typing the word 'cis' into the platform.
Censorship isn’t absent from Twitter. Quite the opposite.
When people say censorship in regard to Twitter they just want to be shitty to people. Just post on 4chan what’s the real difference?
Twitter is a cesspool.
Twitter is a cesspool.
Post "cisgender".
Bluesky also has the "less censorship" feature :D
Bluesky also has the "less censorship" feature :D
A really killer feature for me is not being bombarded by racist, sexiest, homophobic, and transphobic drivel. Twitter doesn’t support this feature; it’s all but impossible to avoid all that crap on that platform.
The people active on Twitter are a small subset of "the real world", and the move to BlueSky is certainly very noticeable there. About 80-90% of people I was following on Twitter have a Bluesky account now, most of them are actively posting there. And this is not just a left-wing bubble, I mean I don't follow any Trump supporters but there are plenty of people in my feed that would usually be considered conservative.
After all the hullabaloo recently I went and looked at it for the first time.
Here's my true first-time user experience: The first 10 posts recommended to me were 1 comedian making a joke, 2 pictures of space, and 7 hate-based partisan political posts. All from one extreme end of the political spectrum. You can guess which. I instantly left and will never go back.
For what it's worth, I also do not use X.
Here's my true first-time user experience: The first 10 posts recommended to me were 1 comedian making a joke, 2 pictures of space, and 7 hate-based partisan political posts. All from one extreme end of the political spectrum. You can guess which. I instantly left and will never go back.
For what it's worth, I also do not use X.
I'd agree the default user experience is shit (and I felt it was shit on old Twitter too). It's like a shotgun of shit at the wall to see what sticks. But once you engage with content you want (which can be entirely non-political and niche-interest based) that goes away.
Or at least I suspect so. I often end up being interested in politics and thus get more of it, but I'm not complaining. I get a good mix of my specific interests, art, humor, cute animals, and politics.
Or at least I suspect so. I often end up being interested in politics and thus get more of it, but I'm not complaining. I get a good mix of my specific interests, art, humor, cute animals, and politics.
> Twitter/X is actually a balanced discourse site now. CNN even admitted that the party affiliation of its users went from majority-left (65/31) to split down the middle, 48/47
To repeat a quote I have seen repeated in dozens of email signatures (below the pronouns, of course!)
"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
To repeat a quote I have seen repeated in dozens of email signatures (below the pronouns, of course!)
"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
> Twitter/X is actually a balanced discourse site now.
That might have a chance at being true if the owner didn't flood the network with deliberate misinformation and block dissenting opinions.
That might have a chance at being true if the owner didn't flood the network with deliberate misinformation and block dissenting opinions.
That was true previously as well. The most substantial difference between Jack and Musk is that the former was better at maintaining a professional demeanor. His biases were no fewer, his tenure at Twitter was markedly more censorious, but he was better at presenting himself. This seems to be the main distinguishing feature of American liberalism as opposed to conservatism. The point about misinformation is another place this can be seen. There's a lot of misinformation from both mainstream political camps in the US, but liberal misinformation is more dressed-up whereas conservative misinformation is downright clownish--Alex Jones being a good example.
I see it more of a freedom from versus freedom to distinction. Under Elon’s Twitter you have the freedom to say anything (*almost anything — no tweeting about where his jet is lol). Under jack’s Twitter you have freedom from being bombarded with rape threats if you disagree with the wrong influencer.
Personally I prefer the freedom from regime but the nice part of the divide is everyone gets to choose for themselves. I’ve seen more of the people whose create content Im interested in (scientists, artists, authors etc) migrating to Bluesky but it’ll be interesting to see how it plays out over the next few years.
Personally I prefer the freedom from regime but the nice part of the divide is everyone gets to choose for themselves. I’ve seen more of the people whose create content Im interested in (scientists, artists, authors etc) migrating to Bluesky but it’ll be interesting to see how it plays out over the next few years.
Honestly, I've thought about signing up for Bluesky on a similar basis, that a lot of the people I want to follow for my hobbies are there.
I'm not sure what you mean about the rape threats. Is there a documented increase in such things on Xitter?
I'm not sure what you mean about the rape threats. Is there a documented increase in such things on Xitter?
> That was true previously as well.
No, it really wasn't. Don't even try and pretend please. Musk was spreading deepfakes about Kamala for example without labeling them as such. Jack and Musk are not comparable.
No, it really wasn't. Don't even try and pretend please. Musk was spreading deepfakes about Kamala for example without labeling them as such. Jack and Musk are not comparable.
That's exactly the kind of thing I'm criticizing him for. Musk posted an obviously satirical deepfake of Harris. It was clownish. It was unprofessional. Jack wouldn't have done that.
And yet, the response to this from liberals wasn't to chide him on that alone, which would have been plenty enough. It was to pretend that this wasn't obvious satire, that it was an attempt at spreading misinformation. The reaction was far more disingenuous than the bad joke.
And yet, the response to this from liberals wasn't to chide him on that alone, which would have been plenty enough. It was to pretend that this wasn't obvious satire, that it was an attempt at spreading misinformation. The reaction was far more disingenuous than the bad joke.
FFS buddy, it *was* an attempt at spreading misinformation, there was no warning it was a deepfake or a parody. Stop trying to make excuses and apologize for his conduct, it doesn't make you look good let alone 'fair' like you probably think you're being.
No it wasn’t. The video didn’t make any attempt at believability, and Musk posted it with the text “this is awesome” followed by laughing emojis. The joke could not have been more telegraphed. You may as well complain that SNL is misleading voters.
I don’t care about looking fair. I care about being honest. I’m sorry if you think I’m not doing enough to support your team.
I don’t care about looking fair. I care about being honest. I’m sorry if you think I’m not doing enough to support your team.
> The joke could not have been more telegraphed.
See, when you're apologizing and defending this behavior, you're already in the wrong.
He violated his own platforms policies requiring such videos to be labeled. If you don't think that was deliberate to mislead people, you're incredibly naive. It's hardly the first time he's done that sort of thing.
> I care about being honest. I’m sorry if you think I’m not doing enough to support your team.
I care about being honest, you clearly don't since you champion liars. god this country is so screwed lol.
See, when you're apologizing and defending this behavior, you're already in the wrong.
He violated his own platforms policies requiring such videos to be labeled. If you don't think that was deliberate to mislead people, you're incredibly naive. It's hardly the first time he's done that sort of thing.
> I care about being honest. I’m sorry if you think I’m not doing enough to support your team.
I care about being honest, you clearly don't since you champion liars. god this country is so screwed lol.
valval(1)
this is too funny. comparing X before and after Musk takeover… wowsa… can’t believe this is even a thing anyone can say/write with a straight face
Where are the 400 million left leaning party members from to make up for the US?
Well first post I’ve seen was “punch a nazi” and then bunch of other hate towards right-wing.
Are people mad about anti-Nazi sentiments? I guess people’s memories really are short.
Pepperidge Farms remembers that Indiana Jones was the good guy.
I'm mad about calls for violence regardless who they are (esp. how quick everyone are to label someone)
Would you say the same thing in 1930’s Germany?
Every time there's a Bluesky or ATProto post I comment with how I think their killer feature is video.
Their smart use of domains makes it so that their equivalent of "channel" can be an actual website, that will offer you recommendations when you watch videos on it exactly like YT, except you control the algorithm.
Users will get much better choice and experience over the already excellent YouTube, but most importantly the creators will be able to express themselves however they wish. They will rent hosting from a provider, shows ads from an Adsense-like service, and actually own both their content _and_ their subscriber list.
I've been wanting to build it, but I'm always deterred by how ATProto is still tightly linked to Bluesky itself.
Their smart use of domains makes it so that their equivalent of "channel" can be an actual website, that will offer you recommendations when you watch videos on it exactly like YT, except you control the algorithm.
Users will get much better choice and experience over the already excellent YouTube, but most importantly the creators will be able to express themselves however they wish. They will rent hosting from a provider, shows ads from an Adsense-like service, and actually own both their content _and_ their subscriber list.
I've been wanting to build it, but I'm always deterred by how ATProto is still tightly linked to Bluesky itself.
Getting tired of these samey sort of 'look what a revolution Bluesky is' posts. Yes, it's doing well. A boom. A recent boom. But I also anecdotally am not seeing huge swathes of engagement or migration depending on niche. It was like that when the whole Mastodon exodus happened a few years ago also - both in the numerous excitement posts, and the niche-specific migration. Let's just see where it goes. The thoughtpieces are endless and lack any real insight or substantive data.
[flagged]
>Someone's pushing really hard to make Bluesky happen
yeah, there are 1-2 posts on the frontpage every day now. totally organic
yeah, there are 1-2 posts on the frontpage every day now. totally organic
All that really matters is: where do the advertisers choose to put their dollars
Allegedly, Bluesky does not plan to ever have ads on their app. They have some other monetization plans, yet to be announced publicly
Ah yes, the tried and true South Park Underpants Gnome business model...
1. Make Twitter/X Clone
2. ???
3. Profit!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnomes_(South_Park)
1. Make Twitter/X Clone
2. ???
3. Profit!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnomes_(South_Park)
I switched to Bluesky yesterday due to the bots/zero engagement on X.
It's basically become yelling into the void. Started out in 2007 and it was great for finding people and getting interest in your projects, but now, I just get a bunch of spam bot follows and on an account with 3,600+ followers, only 30-40 views at most per post (w/ no engagement).
It's basically become yelling into the void. Started out in 2007 and it was great for finding people and getting interest in your projects, but now, I just get a bunch of spam bot follows and on an account with 3,600+ followers, only 30-40 views at most per post (w/ no engagement).
Same for me. 1,000 followers and barely any engagement. I swear it used to be different. My posts weren't any less dumb years ago, but I used to at least get a few replies and likes, even retweets.
[deleted]
notadoc(1)
Bluesky wont happen no matter how hard they push right now. Its not offering anything fundamentally different. It will pull from X but will stay niche.
It's clearly already "happening." Bluesky doesn't need to offer anything fundamentally different, just an experience that users consider better than the alternative. People aren't seeking novelty so much as an escape from the toxicity and algorithmically-driven vitriol of Twitter.
It isn't clearly happening - its having a minor bump.
I don't care either way i just think the collective effort to push it wont pan out but please hype away.
I don't care either way i just think the collective effort to push it wont pan out but please hype away.
Every time I've opened the bluesky homepage it's been highly political. Not even in the sense of "here's a topic I feel strongly about". It's just "fuck conservatives" over and over. At the same time, even the most mild conservative opinions result in a ban. That's not a platform that one goes to for an escape from toxicity. It's a platform that one goes to so that they can burn strawmen with like-minded toxic people without worrying about getting blowback for it.
I'm opening up my app right now, and I see none of this. Granted I'm a recent installer (this week), and all I've followed are tech/ml based lists. But it is a much quieter place than twitter.
The major accounts from twitter are not on bluesky, but I don't care for vitriol or meme replies (all of which are much higher on twitter). That being said, twitter still has a lot of interesting people, who are the main reason to continue using the site.
The major accounts from twitter are not on bluesky, but I don't care for vitriol or meme replies (all of which are much higher on twitter). That being said, twitter still has a lot of interesting people, who are the main reason to continue using the site.
>Every time I've opened the bluesky homepage it's been highly political. Not even in the sense of "here's a topic I feel strongly about". It's just "fuck conservatives" over and over.
Odd. My homepage looks nothing like that. I wonder what I'm doing wrong?
Odd. My homepage looks nothing like that. I wonder what I'm doing wrong?
I'm not signed in. Maybe that's why.
Right now I opened the home page, paged down through the top 20 or so bloots or whatever they're called, and got:
- An MSNBC video about fighting back against conservatives
- A post celebrating that a "right-wing lawsuit" to review voter rolls failed
- That BrooklynDad dude complaining about Trump supporters
- A post comparing conservatives to the Empire from Star Wars
- A post chastising White people for having opinions on some controversy involving Black celebrities
A lot of whiny us-against-them rhetoric, but it's not toxic because they are conservatives. In between those, there are cat pictures, some shower thoughts type posts, landscape photos, and comics. This was a marked improvement over the page when I opened it yesterday.
Right now I opened the home page, paged down through the top 20 or so bloots or whatever they're called, and got:
- An MSNBC video about fighting back against conservatives
- A post celebrating that a "right-wing lawsuit" to review voter rolls failed
- That BrooklynDad dude complaining about Trump supporters
- A post comparing conservatives to the Empire from Star Wars
- A post chastising White people for having opinions on some controversy involving Black celebrities
A lot of whiny us-against-them rhetoric, but it's not toxic because they are conservatives. In between those, there are cat pictures, some shower thoughts type posts, landscape photos, and comics. This was a marked improvement over the page when I opened it yesterday.
It's because we've reached a point where the average conservative rhetoric is toxic, harmful and generally flat out incorrect. Political lines are now about acknowledging facts or not, and being bigoted or not. Places like Bluesky that don't allow misinformation or bigotry are of course going to be harsh on the political party that thrives on both.
> It's because we've reached a point where the average conservative rhetoric is toxic, harmful and generally flat out incorrect.
Yes, but not particularly.
> Political lines are now about acknowledging facts or not
Political lines are about which facts you accept. On many of the social issues of today, which are far more contentious than economic ones, liberal "facts" are often two lies and a half-truth wearing a trench coat. What liberals[1] want is a monopoly over which facts are on the table, and for all discussion to take place within that framing. And accusations of toxicity, harm, disinformation, and bigotry, are employed as rhetorical tools to preserve that monopoly.
[1]: By "liberals" here I don't mean average liberal voters, but politicians, pundits, influencers, and the class of affluent, politically-engaged people who tend to set the tone generally.
Yes, but not particularly.
> Political lines are now about acknowledging facts or not
Political lines are about which facts you accept. On many of the social issues of today, which are far more contentious than economic ones, liberal "facts" are often two lies and a half-truth wearing a trench coat. What liberals[1] want is a monopoly over which facts are on the table, and for all discussion to take place within that framing. And accusations of toxicity, harm, disinformation, and bigotry, are employed as rhetorical tools to preserve that monopoly.
[1]: By "liberals" here I don't mean average liberal voters, but politicians, pundits, influencers, and the class of affluent, politically-engaged people who tend to set the tone generally.
> Yes, but not particularly.
Not particularly what?
> Political lines are about which facts you accept.
Right, one side outright makes up lies and denies things.
> liberal "facts" are often two lies and a half-truth wearing a trench coat.
I see your footnote, it's still nonsense. Conservatives outright lie, Trump an JD outright admitted to making up the story about Haitians eating pets which did incredible harm to a community, and conservatives lapped it up and asked for seconds instead of, you know, holding them accountable.
Not particularly what?
> Political lines are about which facts you accept.
Right, one side outright makes up lies and denies things.
> liberal "facts" are often two lies and a half-truth wearing a trench coat.
I see your footnote, it's still nonsense. Conservatives outright lie, Trump an JD outright admitted to making up the story about Haitians eating pets which did incredible harm to a community, and conservatives lapped it up and asked for seconds instead of, you know, holding them accountable.
I see plenty of conservatives on Bluesky and they aren’t banned? However I have seen conservatives who act rudely get banned so maybe that’s what you mean? But my point stands I see conservative discussion on there near daily and it isn’t banned.
They get mass-blocked a lot; this appears to make them furious, but is not the same as being banned. Generally, Bluesky mostly bans people over stuff in their profile, which has much stricter rules than posts.
What I saw were claims (and screen recordings) of being instabanned, not mass-blocked, for statements like “there are only two genders” which is a pretty basic conservative stance. One of the sources was that End Wokeness account, so not exactly an unbiased source.
I did make an account to test the waters with such statements, and wasn’t immediately banned, so maybe it’s not true.
I did make an account to test the waters with such statements, and wasn’t immediately banned, so maybe it’s not true.
I would wonder if they put something insane in their bio. There are lots of transphobes on Bluesky; eg this list seems to have thousands of people: https://bsky.app/profile/hedgehogsafety.bsky.social/lists/3l...
All this means is that you poorly curated your follows.
I’m not logged in. This is based on what I see as a potential user checking out the site for the first time.
Why not? These all come and go, it could be Twitter's time to go.
MySpace became irrelevant, Facebook is near-irrelevant.
Bluesky is fundamentally different.
1. It is built on an open protocol
2. User controls and choice, they decoupled {algo, app, data, moderation} and users decide which ones they use. Anyone can build any of these and offer them up without having to change social network. In short, they created a social media fabric with built in competition on the supplier side while removing the switching cost for users
1. It is built on an open protocol
2. User controls and choice, they decoupled {algo, app, data, moderation} and users decide which ones they use. Anyone can build any of these and offer them up without having to change social network. In short, they created a social media fabric with built in competition on the supplier side while removing the switching cost for users
I mean, it doesn’t have the pay-for-attention mechanism that Carface added to Twitter. That in itself is a huge difference.
After the demise of Twitter, I first tried Post.news — which had great branding but failed to get the everything-is-a-tweet model right (comments were 2nd class citizens to posts).
Then I moved to Mastodon, which I enjoy. Mastodon’s biggest issue is the enormous UX hurdle to pick an instance before even signing up, though. That and the lack of a unified view (mentioned in the article) will probably keep it niche. Also lack of quote-tweeting, a deliberate choice.
BlueSky is the first truly worthy successor. It’s better than Twitter in its prime, before it went algorithmic. It allows quote-tweeting but gives the quoted party control over the scenarios that Mastodon was trying to prevent by avoiding the feature entirely.