Consumer Reports Dropped Tesla in Its Rankings and It's Because of the Yoke(jalopnik.com)
jalopnik.com
Consumer Reports Dropped Tesla in Its Rankings and It's Because of the Yoke
https://jalopnik.com/consumer-reports-dropped-tesla-in-its-rankings-and-its-1848555941
11 コメント
>The turn signals are touch on the wheel, people are adding stupid 3d bump stickers to give themselves something they can feel for without sight.. to use a stupid turn signal.
>This also means the wipers are fully auto with only the touch screen override.
Both of these should be illegal in my opinion. Indicators and wipers are absolutely essential to operate without looking.
I can't believe Tesla gets away with this garbage that puts all road users at risk.
What's next? Touch screen steering wheel?
>This also means the wipers are fully auto with only the touch screen override.
Both of these should be illegal in my opinion. Indicators and wipers are absolutely essential to operate without looking.
I can't believe Tesla gets away with this garbage that puts all road users at risk.
What's next? Touch screen steering wheel?
The thing about Tesla is that it's always been an opinionated car (due to Musk). The same way early single-model iPhones were an opinionated phone (due to Jobs).
You can see where sometimes this good, and now more and more you can see where this is bad.
The X was a no-go for me already due to the falcon wing doors (more vanity than practical, frequent repair issues, risk of hitting irregular objects on ceiling).
Now S is a no-go for me with the yoke (and X doubly so as they put the yoke there too).
The Y is interesting as a 3 upgrade but for the hassle with supply chain issues, it doesn't seem like that much more car.
Cybertruck is affordable but gigantic, if you can even get your hands on one before mid 2024.
Roadster is never going to ship.
The X was a no-go for me already due to the falcon wing doors (more vanity than practical, frequent repair issues, risk of hitting irregular objects on ceiling).
Now S is a no-go for me with the yoke (and X doubly so as they put the yoke there too).
The Y is interesting as a 3 upgrade but for the hassle with supply chain issues, it doesn't seem like that much more car.
Cybertruck is affordable but gigantic, if you can even get your hands on one before mid 2024.
Roadster is never going to ship.
> If it wasn't for the charging network advantage I'd dabble in another EV brand next.
Why accept a proprietary network in the first place? For the good of all EVs everywhere it's better to go with the open standard.
Europe standardized on CCS Type 2 Combo. Tesla switched to it a few years ago and now they are (finally) starting to open their chargers to all EVs just like all the other charging networks:
https://electrek.co/2022/02/14/tesla-expands-access-supercha...
Europe's getting it right on EVs. A step in the right direction for North America would be for Tesla to switch to CCS like they did in Europe.
Why accept a proprietary network in the first place? For the good of all EVs everywhere it's better to go with the open standard.
Europe standardized on CCS Type 2 Combo. Tesla switched to it a few years ago and now they are (finally) starting to open their chargers to all EVs just like all the other charging networks:
https://electrek.co/2022/02/14/tesla-expands-access-supercha...
Europe's getting it right on EVs. A step in the right direction for North America would be for Tesla to switch to CCS like they did in Europe.
I mean theres being pragmatic and "accepting" that in North America, especially outside California, Tesla's charging network is 5 years ahead of the competition in terms of locations, plugs, reliability, and even cost. It's not even close.
It's crazier than not buying an iPhone due to the lightning plug. At least that is easily solved with the adapter / most people have plenty of cables.
In Tesla's case, in 49 of 50 states in US, the proprietary network is actually a huge advantage to the buyer.
It's crazier than not buying an iPhone due to the lightning plug. At least that is easily solved with the adapter / most people have plenty of cables.
In Tesla's case, in 49 of 50 states in US, the proprietary network is actually a huge advantage to the buyer.
> I mean theres being pragmatic and "accepting" that in North America
It's not pragmatic to stunt the growth of the market. North American EV sales volumes are one third the size of Europe's. North America's inability to do something as basic as standardize on chargers is one of the reasons why.
It's not pragmatic to stunt the growth of the market. North American EV sales volumes are one third the size of Europe's. North America's inability to do something as basic as standardize on chargers is one of the reasons why.
The real reason is size & cost.
Americans love big giant cars, and especially cross-overs and trucks. None of these have had competitively priced EV versions until just this year, barely. You still need to spend north of $50K on an EV to get anything approaching the typical American car size. When some of these EV pickup trucks from mainstream makers ship in quantity, the needle will start to move.
Europeans are happily replacing small city cars with small sub-250mi range EVs.
Americans love big giant cars, and especially cross-overs and trucks. None of these have had competitively priced EV versions until just this year, barely. You still need to spend north of $50K on an EV to get anything approaching the typical American car size. When some of these EV pickup trucks from mainstream makers ship in quantity, the needle will start to move.
Europeans are happily replacing small city cars with small sub-250mi range EVs.
> None of these have had competitively priced EV versions until just this year, barely.
Sure they have. In Europe. It's just a bigger market with more choice. In fact, here's a Mercedes EQV charging on a Tesla charger:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI5EnOo05BE
Broad choice of EVs, multibrand charging, bigger and better.
It's too bad North America is still struggling to get its EV act together. Tesla is the last remaining CCS holdout. Hopefully they'll get more serious soon.
Sure they have. In Europe. It's just a bigger market with more choice. In fact, here's a Mercedes EQV charging on a Tesla charger:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI5EnOo05BE
Broad choice of EVs, multibrand charging, bigger and better.
It's too bad North America is still struggling to get its EV act together. Tesla is the last remaining CCS holdout. Hopefully they'll get more serious soon.
Reminder:
Tesla is the only auto manufacturer in North America not using the J1772/CCS standard. Everyone else has decided to use it.
Instead, Tesla continues to install more proprietary charging stations.
If Tesla is at all interested in furthering battery electric vehicle technology, they should get with the standard.
Tesla is the only auto manufacturer in North America not using the J1772/CCS standard. Everyone else has decided to use it.
Instead, Tesla continues to install more proprietary charging stations.
If Tesla is at all interested in furthering battery electric vehicle technology, they should get with the standard.
Sure, but what standard was going to win wasn't entirely clear even at the point Tesla was going into Model 3 mass production.
Remember for some time, the best selling EV in US was Nissan Leaf which used Chademo. In fact for a long time in the northeast, the most widespread non-Tesla DC fast chargers were Chademo.. CCS only took the lead 2 years ago. This is also why Tesla has sold a Chademo adapter for years here in the states and is only recently releasing a CCS adapter.
It's like being mad at Apple for not using USB-C when they invented Lightning (which predates USB-C).
For better or worse, Tesla is selling you an ecosystem. Buy our car, it has a strong, widespread, easy to use, affordable charging network.
If you buy most other EV brands in the US, you are stuck using ElectrifyAmerica chargers which are more expensive, fewer locations, and critically - incredibly unreliable. Go watch some non-Tesla EV reviews in the US, or car comparisons.. the number of reviewers in manufacturer provided cars having issues with chargers being down, slow, or unable to authenticate with their particular car is insane. There was even an official sponsored event with TV crews to race EVs across America and they repeatedly ran into these issues...
We also run a serious risk of the situation getting worse rather than better. Remember that ElectrifyAmerica is part of a settlement with the US Government by VW due to diesel gate. Who knows then the funding winds down and if they have enough 3rd party capital to continue building out, fixing their hardware issues, etc.
So for now, unfortunately, it makes sense to buy a Tesla and rely on Tesla chargers - they are incentivized to work well to sell you more cars.
Remember for some time, the best selling EV in US was Nissan Leaf which used Chademo. In fact for a long time in the northeast, the most widespread non-Tesla DC fast chargers were Chademo.. CCS only took the lead 2 years ago. This is also why Tesla has sold a Chademo adapter for years here in the states and is only recently releasing a CCS adapter.
It's like being mad at Apple for not using USB-C when they invented Lightning (which predates USB-C).
For better or worse, Tesla is selling you an ecosystem. Buy our car, it has a strong, widespread, easy to use, affordable charging network.
If you buy most other EV brands in the US, you are stuck using ElectrifyAmerica chargers which are more expensive, fewer locations, and critically - incredibly unreliable. Go watch some non-Tesla EV reviews in the US, or car comparisons.. the number of reviewers in manufacturer provided cars having issues with chargers being down, slow, or unable to authenticate with their particular car is insane. There was even an official sponsored event with TV crews to race EVs across America and they repeatedly ran into these issues...
We also run a serious risk of the situation getting worse rather than better. Remember that ElectrifyAmerica is part of a settlement with the US Government by VW due to diesel gate. Who knows then the funding winds down and if they have enough 3rd party capital to continue building out, fixing their hardware issues, etc.
So for now, unfortunately, it makes sense to buy a Tesla and rely on Tesla chargers - they are incentivized to work well to sell you more cars.
Even the hardcore Tesla owners I know aren't happy about the yoke.
This feels like the automotive version of the designers forcing a backwards UI/UX change because it looks good in promotional photos and slide decks but makes the app worse to use for users.
This feels like the automotive version of the designers forcing a backwards UI/UX change because it looks good in promotional photos and slide decks but makes the app worse to use for users.
Can you replace it? I’ve seen cars where the wheel is basically a user customizable part.
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Love my Tesla, but a yoke is a deal-breaker for me.
I haven't tried the yoke, but I'm awfully skeptical about its utility. Maybe they adjusted the turning ratios, or made them non-linear to compensate.
Nope, its only purpose is to look modern like 1980s knight rider.
Watching videos of people doing parking maneuvers with the yoke is hilarious.
Watching videos of people doing parking maneuvers with the yoke is hilarious.
When I first got my Tesla, the “gas” pedal was annoyingly further forward than the brake pedal. As “full self driving” progressed I drive “manually” increasingly less often and now what once annoyed me is convenient, I can easily rest my foot there near the gas pedal without accidentally pressing it, at the ready to hit the brake pedal if needed which is located next to where my foot sits. It took several years before the design started to make sense and grew on me.
When your car drives more and more autonomously having manual controls that can accidentally be activated start to make less sense, we’re not there yet, but someday there will likely be no steering wheel at all and people will react the same way they are now.
When your car drives more and more autonomously having manual controls that can accidentally be activated start to make less sense, we’re not there yet, but someday there will likely be no steering wheel at all and people will react the same way they are now.
In a commodity device, I think that would make sense. A steering wheel is life critical. No system is ever fault proof, and in the case of failure, you'll definitely want a backup here, unlike in a commodity good or service where a failure doesn't matter that much.
Isn't steering drive-by-wire here? Failure is not an option... I hope.
Pretty sure it's just a conventional rack-and-pinion with a steering wheel at the end of a collapsible column physically connected to the pinion, like almost every other car.
There's just an electric power assist that can also drive the rack without involving the driver.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143911509282
There's just an electric power assist that can also drive the rack without involving the driver.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143911509282
They bring up a good point though. Society has decided that conventional steering systems are within defined failure bounds, assuming a perfectly safe driver of course. So to remove the steering wheel from a Tesla, FSD must be as fault tolerant as steering wheel failure limitations, plus some driver competence metric. Of course that also doesn't take into account the thorny issue of the intersection of safe actions on Tesla FSD actions to human driver actions. FSD has a long way to go.
So the 3 and Y don't have the yoke, and not one Model X with the yoke has been delivered, but this...
> Tesla Inc’s new “yoke” steering wheel installed in Model S sedans and Model X sport utility vehicles is so difficult to use that it dropped the most valuable automaker’s position in the Consumer Reports annual car brand rankings by seven spots to 23rd place - below average, the independent testing organization said on Thursday.
> Tesla Inc’s new “yoke” steering wheel installed in Model S sedans and Model X sport utility vehicles is so difficult to use that it dropped the most valuable automaker’s position in the Consumer Reports annual car brand rankings by seven spots to 23rd place - below average, the independent testing organization said on Thursday.
This feels like an example of why you don't hire primadonas or assholes. Obviously one person has bullied everyone at Tesla into some alleged groupthink consensus that the yoke is just amazing and people just don't get it if they disagree. Whoever that person is is entirely wrong. It'll be interesting to see if Tesla can actually back down or if the next version of their driving interface will require a Tesla chip implant, eye tracking or something equally inane.
I just went for a ride on my friend's tesla and there are multiple things that are a deal breaker for me. No blind spot car indication on the side view mirrors, everything is hidden under multiple levels in menu. The actual range is much below the advertised range and calibrating the battery is not trivial.
It feels like there is too much of armchair design than actually helping the driver. Everything is designed around people looking at the screen and not at the road.
It feels like there is too much of armchair design than actually helping the driver. Everything is designed around people looking at the screen and not at the road.
The yoke shape itself compared to the steering wheel is not a big problem, it might even help to steer corectly as in hand positions and overgripping for sharp turns.
But the move from intuitive, easy controls to touchscreens is horrible. Touchscreens do not work correctly if your fingers are wet, dusty, covered with something like a patch over a wound. Maybe you want to use gloves?
Additionally, placing those controls on the turning part of the yoke is a very bad design decision. There horn's main function is to warn other drivers in dangerous situations. You need to be able to use it quickly without thinking. That's why good car makers place it right in the middle of the steering wheel and the whole middle can be used. It is a proven design.
But the move from intuitive, easy controls to touchscreens is horrible. Touchscreens do not work correctly if your fingers are wet, dusty, covered with something like a patch over a wound. Maybe you want to use gloves?
Additionally, placing those controls on the turning part of the yoke is a very bad design decision. There horn's main function is to warn other drivers in dangerous situations. You need to be able to use it quickly without thinking. That's why good car makers place it right in the middle of the steering wheel and the whole middle can be used. It is a proven design.
If it wasn't for the charging network advantage I'd dabble in another EV brand next. Maybe as a second non-roadtrip car only, or wait 5 years for competing networks to catchup.
It's not just the yoke, its the complete removal of the control stalks on the steering column. The gear shift is now "predictive" between D/N/R, but you can override it on the stupid touch screen. I cannot imagine having to do a tight parallel parking job in NYC with this garbage interface.
The turn signals are touch on the wheel, people are adding stupid 3d bump stickers to give themselves something they can feel for without sight.. to use a stupid turn signal.
This also means the wipers are fully auto with only the touch screen override.
Tesla is designed by/for 25-35 year old dudes in sunny California with dry weather and wide well marked freeways, infrequent parallel parking, and I guess don't use their signals..
There's replacement wheels but they are $3k, look like Fisher Price toys, and .. you need to trust your mechanic swaps them correctly enough that the air bags still work flawlessly. No thanks.