A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies(meta.stackexchange.com)
meta.stackexchange.com
A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies
https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/firing-mods-and-forced-slippery-relicensing-is-stack-exchange-still-interested
313 コメント
This resignation notice from a moderator on the Christianity Stack Exchange appears to provide the most detail about what's going on: https://christianity.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/6718/b...
My understanding is that the train of events that resulted in mod Monica Cellio’s demodding from SE started with a gender-related complaint tweet (https://medium.com/@cellio/dear-stack-overflow-we-need-to-ta...). Companies are now very sensitive to this pattern, esp. true for SE due to the ongoing changes there.
Every one of these community groups inevitably has some sort of internal political strife of some sort. I've never found any meaning in attempting to engage their politics in any more than the most basic sense.
The groups always exaggerate the impact of actions upon the rest of us when it's usually a no-op as far as we're concerned.
E.g. Reddit iama had this massive controversy around a Reddit facilitator being fired and everyone predicted insta failure or whatever. Lots of time passed and the product is still pretty damned successful (Bill Gates was on it within the last year). I'm sure Wikipedia has had "I'm stepping down" posts and whatnot.
Perhaps the learning is that it isn't a worthwhile way to seek meaning in your life to give away volunteer hours moderating sites unless they're your own or you're paid for it. It is a pointless place to put your self-worth because disagreements will occur and they will be enforced as the site owner desires. Your hours earn you no power.
The groups always exaggerate the impact of actions upon the rest of us when it's usually a no-op as far as we're concerned.
E.g. Reddit iama had this massive controversy around a Reddit facilitator being fired and everyone predicted insta failure or whatever. Lots of time passed and the product is still pretty damned successful (Bill Gates was on it within the last year). I'm sure Wikipedia has had "I'm stepping down" posts and whatnot.
Perhaps the learning is that it isn't a worthwhile way to seek meaning in your life to give away volunteer hours moderating sites unless they're your own or you're paid for it. It is a pointless place to put your self-worth because disagreements will occur and they will be enforced as the site owner desires. Your hours earn you no power.
I have always found Monica Cellio to be a great moderator. If she has been fired then something is deeply wrong over at Stack Exchange.
I am legitimately curious—and concerned—about the relicensing of answers. It really seems as though they shouldn't be able to do that. And if they can, can they also change the license to "all rights reserved by SE"?
So much politics about that. I go on on SO from Google, find solution to my problem. Sometime add my own answers. And sometime I post question when I can't find solution. End of the story. Why the fuck it need to be so complicated?
Reading between the lines, it looks like a queer mod felt unsupported by SE over a long period of time, and SE eventually decided to make a code of conduct change. These mods disagreed with that change (some using language like "thought crime") which precipitated their resignations?
Is there any detail anywhere about why Monica Cellio was fired? Will no one leak the internal chat that was supposedly the justification for her firing?
All I can see online is everyone vaguely talking around the issue.
Make the facts public and let people decide for themselves.
All I can see online is everyone vaguely talking around the issue.
Make the facts public and let people decide for themselves.
Anyone else felt disconcerting about the reoccurring theme of platform attracts communicated generated content, only to shift interest/motive once critical mass is achieved?
In most, if not all of the resignations the primary reason for resigning was the way the firing of one moderator was handled. The internally announced changes to the policies were not necessarily the reason for the resignations. The headline is pretty misleading in that regard.
What I am curious why haven't we seen a quality mashup of a SE site? Some sort of interesting curation/filters etc.
Even the new CC-share-alike allows commercial mixins https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ .
So being that SE started with SO and thus heavy programming emphasis there should be a plethora of interesting mashups.
Instead the only SE content derived sites have been banal copies.
Even the new CC-share-alike allows commercial mixins https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ .
So being that SE started with SO and thus heavy programming emphasis there should be a plethora of interesting mashups.
Instead the only SE content derived sites have been banal copies.
Spotted this on the hot question list, totally out of the loop on the latest SE drama, can somebody fill me in?
The policy in question appears to be affirmatively requiring moderators not to (deliberately) mis-gender trans people, or allow user content to do the same.
All these ex-mods wrote these coy essays with discussions of free will and human rights in order to avoid discussing the issue at hand.
Trans people are surely a more important part of the StackExchange community and business than a few unpaid volunteers.
I am not sorry that Monica’s feelings were hurt by a demand for basic human decency.
All these ex-mods wrote these coy essays with discussions of free will and human rights in order to avoid discussing the issue at hand.
Trans people are surely a more important part of the StackExchange community and business than a few unpaid volunteers.
I am not sorry that Monica’s feelings were hurt by a demand for basic human decency.
Do Jeff Atwood and Joel Spolsky still a say in how SE is run? If yes, now would be the perfect time to step in and moderate the discussion.
Back in the day I used to be among top users on that site - they even sent me a T-shirt at some time. Left several years ago, as the site became toxic.
I'm not mentioning this "top user" thing on my resume anymore, because not relevant.
The site is still an excellent source of information about all things that were cool ten years ago, such as Java, Spring, SQL, Python.
I'm not mentioning this "top user" thing on my resume anymore, because not relevant.
The site is still an excellent source of information about all things that were cool ten years ago, such as Java, Spring, SQL, Python.
RIP SE
Reminds me of the company take overs where the key asset is human capital and they all just walk out the door after the deal. Congrats you bought an empty building for billions
Don't think SE is ever going to be profitable if they can't keep key figures happy
Reminds me of the company take overs where the key asset is human capital and they all just walk out the door after the deal. Congrats you bought an empty building for billions
Don't think SE is ever going to be profitable if they can't keep key figures happy
> "they think I will in the future violate a thoughtcrime-style provision of a Code of Conduct change that hasn't been made yet"
Seems like a code of conduct issue?
Seems like a code of conduct issue?
Why did this story drop off the front page so quickly when it was one of the most popular?
Is the flag system being abused?
Is the flag system being abused?
So why hasn't an alternative to SO emerged where users can come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, ask and learn! Come, ask questions and get expert answers without money and without price
The old system, whatever it was, incentivized bad mod behavior and ruined the experience.
This is natural selection at work.
Stack Exchange has become a frustrating site to use.
"Closed as duplicate: different and unrelated question"
reopen further explaining the question and how its not related
"Closed as duplicate: the first question that was immediately closed with no replies"
OR!
Google around, find SE link on issue, everybody is arguing about why the user wants to do it that why, convinces them to do it another way, only I don't have that option, so I open my own question, and its closed as a dupe of the one from google where the original question was never answered.
or
Post helpful answer that actually answers the users question as asked without berating them for wanting to do it that way
Get yelled at in the comments for creating noise?
---
The moral of the story is that stack exchange needs to die so that something else can come from its ashes that is able to look back at SE as an example of how not to do shit.
Stack Exchange has become a frustrating site to use.
"Closed as duplicate: different and unrelated question"
reopen further explaining the question and how its not related
"Closed as duplicate: the first question that was immediately closed with no replies"
OR!
Google around, find SE link on issue, everybody is arguing about why the user wants to do it that why, convinces them to do it another way, only I don't have that option, so I open my own question, and its closed as a dupe of the one from google where the original question was never answered.
or
Post helpful answer that actually answers the users question as asked without berating them for wanting to do it that way
Get yelled at in the comments for creating noise?
---
The moral of the story is that stack exchange needs to die so that something else can come from its ashes that is able to look back at SE as an example of how not to do shit.
that's like, not a "large number" but i digress... just wanted to say that i empathize with the mod that wrote they just were just tired. mods getting tired is reason #1 i left a few communities in the past.
it usually means that things aren't looking good. but there is little that could be done about it. i have not seen it last though. a new wave of people tend to come along with a fresh view on how to handle things. the meantime, though, is what's hard to live through. it's what makes people tired and what makes them move on...
it usually means that things aren't looking good. but there is little that could be done about it. i have not seen it last though. a new wave of people tend to come along with a fresh view on how to handle things. the meantime, though, is what's hard to live through. it's what makes people tired and what makes them move on...
Its bittersweet to see Stack Overflow continue its downward spiral. Given all that is happening there, I'd give it about 12 months before they start implementing a paywall there of some description.
It's not clear to me. Were those people paid or volunteers?
There is no detail of the actual argument, just loads of people claiming to be in the know and indicating toxic behaviour and dramatic battles behind the scenes.
There's a lot of flouncing resignations and "we need to talk" style essays also revealing little of substance.
Considering the passion involved some people have clearly been hurt, but perhaps that's due to the amount of time they have invested in somebody else's commercial enterprise ("our community") while believing it's something more.
Perhaps what they are trying to say is the "something more" (presumably the voluntary contributions) is being undermined by paid staff. It's not clear.
At the moment it all reads a bit like a tin pot Game of Thrones though.
There's a lot of flouncing resignations and "we need to talk" style essays also revealing little of substance.
Considering the passion involved some people have clearly been hurt, but perhaps that's due to the amount of time they have invested in somebody else's commercial enterprise ("our community") while believing it's something more.
Perhaps what they are trying to say is the "something more" (presumably the voluntary contributions) is being undermined by paid staff. It's not clear.
At the moment it all reads a bit like a tin pot Game of Thrones though.
I got downvoted to oblivion for reporting a bug to them, with several SO devs trying to explain it’s not a bug, this doesn’t surprise me.
Without studying it thoroughly I would comment: Great, finally!
Moderator abuse was the biggest problem on SO, without any oversight.
Yay, maybe interesting questions/discussion won’t be shut down now!
What's the best alternative to Stack Overflow?
I abhor the recent trend of content decontamination like many others do. But for Q&A sites like SE, I think it is a necessity to stay on topic.
Yes, some moderators might have been too eager in some cases, happened to me too. But since these people are all volunteers, I think they should get some support from the community.
I mean I might have to look for another job if SE ever gets shut down and a lot of knowledge would immediately be lost.
Many people seem to know some mods personally. I have spend a lot of time on that site and couldn't even name one moderator by name/handle.
Quite ironic that a site with a wealth of knowledge has problems with monetization. Some things in the internet economy seem to be quite off.