And while you're at it: why is okay for Louis CK to make a racist joke, but not okay for you?
If the joke is hurtful, then shouldn't you be against Louis CK telling it? Why are you okay with that? Why are you giving him support for doing something hurtful?
And I didn't say I wasn't capable of being sexist because my best friend is a woman. I said that if I treated a woman at a conference the same way that I treated my best friend, I would probably come across as a creepy asshole.
Similarly, if I treated some guy walking down the street the same way that I treat my best friend, I'd probably get labeled as a creepy asshole.
I've known my best friend for over a decade. I'm close enough with her to have a shorthand for jokes, or mannerisms, that doesn't exist with random people I've just met.
My point was that your post is using some extremely faulty reasoning.
No I'm 12: who cares? What does it matter how old I am? Maybe I am a woman! Then what?
Does what I'm saying depend on my age, or its content?
Do you apply the same logic when assigning validity to things that men and women say? The content doesn't matter, just the person saying it?
That's...dare I say it? Possibly pretty sexist of you.
Well, first: my best friend is a woman. And could you please enumerate for me what constitutes a sexist joke?
My aforementioned best friend (who I have had this conversation with) as well as most of the women friends I've had this conversation with agree that things like "dongle" jokes are hilarious.
So are racist jokes (do you seriously not tell any racist jokes? Ever? Do you avoid all of contemporary stand up and sketch comedy while you're at it?)
And very young. Huh? Like how young? Possibly right around the age of most of the people who are attending conferences and hackathons? Right around that 20-30 year old range that constantly gets touted as the age of startup founders on hacker news?
I'm 29. Old by HN standards, but you're right: young.
We are literally on the exact same page. You're enumerating my point.
Inviting somebody for beers isn't hitting on them, but I have been told by women exactly why this is not okay. (In conversations like this one. This sort of "hey that's not okay" doesn't ever seem to actually come up in real life)
I agree that it's totally normal to compliment people on what they're wearing, and I, like you, do this to my coworkers all the time.
Except, again, there are lots of vocal people screaming how this is not okay.
That's my point. "Normal" human interactions are being cast as not okay by some vocal tech writers, which is what can create a mental minefield.
Yeah, except when I do start a conversation with you, I'm hitting on you, and probably being "creepy".
I have to navigate a mental minefield of "don't say this" "don't say that too much" or "don't be overly aggressive", otherwise I get screamed about on twitter, labeled as a misogynist, and possibly fired from my job. (Uh-oh, I said dongle! Or...[1]meritocracy!)
I'm not saying women in tech don't have problems, they do, but I'm really sick of hearing this like it's a completely one-sided problem. The stupid evil men are holding the women down and keeping them from succeeding!
Gender dynamics are hard, for EVERYBODY. Men are having to deal with the fact that suddenly (or maybe not suddenly?) doing things like getting beer after conferences is bad, telling jokes to one another is bad, thinking certain thoughts is bad, using certain words[2] is bad.
I'm sorry if you come to a conference and I don't behave in the ultra-narrowly-defined way that you have determined makes me not part of the problem (although I recently found out that asking if I did it wrong makes me part of the problem).
I don't have a context for this! And it seems like everything I, and other men like me, try to do to make you feel included is WRONG, and we're BAD for doing it!
Invite you to beers after a conference? Hitting on you!
Compliment you on what you're wearing? Hitting on you! Objectifying you! Noticing that you are a partially-physical entity! THE HORROR!
Ask you about your projects? Flirting with you!
Make a suggestion about your project? Mansplaining at you!
Men have to navigate a constantly changing, and VERY hazardous minefield every time we talk to you. I'm really sorry (really, genuinely, that is not sarcasm) that sometimes we get it wrong, or sometimes we just forego trying at all and stay quite around you. A lot of it is really just because we don't want to mess it up and make you angry. Women have a LOT of power over men in these situations, and if we screw up even a tiny tiny bit, it can ruin our lives.
I hope that it isn't against HN guidelines to create a throwaway for things like this.
I don't feel safe posting a link like this under my main account. This article is really scary.
It sounds like this guy was legitimately trying to be both supportive, and delicate in his approach. Reading through his emails makes me wonder "am I the problem?"
I hope not! But according to this post I shouldn't even be allowed to ask that question!
And while you're at it: why is okay for Louis CK to make a racist joke, but not okay for you?
If the joke is hurtful, then shouldn't you be against Louis CK telling it? Why are you okay with that? Why are you giving him support for doing something hurtful?
And I didn't say I wasn't capable of being sexist because my best friend is a woman. I said that if I treated a woman at a conference the same way that I treated my best friend, I would probably come across as a creepy asshole.
Similarly, if I treated some guy walking down the street the same way that I treat my best friend, I'd probably get labeled as a creepy asshole.
I've known my best friend for over a decade. I'm close enough with her to have a shorthand for jokes, or mannerisms, that doesn't exist with random people I've just met.
My point was that your post is using some extremely faulty reasoning.
No I'm 12: who cares? What does it matter how old I am? Maybe I am a woman! Then what?
Does what I'm saying depend on my age, or its content?
Do you apply the same logic when assigning validity to things that men and women say? The content doesn't matter, just the person saying it?
That's...dare I say it? Possibly pretty sexist of you.