Ask HN: Why do tech interview recruiters not reject me
7 comments
In my experience:
1. You apply, you do okay. Let's call you applicant A.
2. Company has found someone else they want more, so they start moving forward with that person (applicant B).
3. Recruiter knows that that applicant B might reject their offer or take a different gig, so he doesn't tell you (applicant A) any of this. He waits until things are 100% finalized between the company and applicant B before he gets back to you at all.
4. In some cases, after a month of silence, he comes back and says "they're ready to hire you" (because Applicant B turned them down), or he'll say "they just hired someone else", or he'll forget to respond to you entirely.
Moral of the story: Just keep moving, keep interviewing elsewhere. If they get back to you someday, great. If they don't, no sweat.
1. You apply, you do okay. Let's call you applicant A.
2. Company has found someone else they want more, so they start moving forward with that person (applicant B).
3. Recruiter knows that that applicant B might reject their offer or take a different gig, so he doesn't tell you (applicant A) any of this. He waits until things are 100% finalized between the company and applicant B before he gets back to you at all.
4. In some cases, after a month of silence, he comes back and says "they're ready to hire you" (because Applicant B turned them down), or he'll say "they just hired someone else", or he'll forget to respond to you entirely.
Moral of the story: Just keep moving, keep interviewing elsewhere. If they get back to you someday, great. If they don't, no sweat.
Companies don't benefit from sending out rejection letters unless they think they may want to hire someone they previously rejected. There is also the potential for legal liability if they say something. That on top of the time it would take an already super-busy person to send emails to all the candidates means that many companies don't bother.
As a hiring manager in a large company, I can tell you that most of the people you are interviewing with aren't being actively rude, they are overwhelmed.
If I took the time to contact all the people I passed on to give them an explanation, it would consume more time than I can afford. The people making the decision to hire are - usually - the ones with the most to do.
The safest bet is to consider any lack of communication a "no." Personally, if I want to hire someone, I make the offer on the same day I interview them. Any company worth your time should do the same.
On a side note, you should make a habit of giving and getting business cards from your interviewers - particularly the decision maker. Also, turn the interview around if you can. Your talents are worth a good company. Make THEM SELL YOU on their job. Don't take a stance of hope. Make sure they leave the interview knowing you are the right person, and the question is "will YOU accept their offer?"
Good luck!
If I took the time to contact all the people I passed on to give them an explanation, it would consume more time than I can afford. The people making the decision to hire are - usually - the ones with the most to do.
The safest bet is to consider any lack of communication a "no." Personally, if I want to hire someone, I make the offer on the same day I interview them. Any company worth your time should do the same.
On a side note, you should make a habit of giving and getting business cards from your interviewers - particularly the decision maker. Also, turn the interview around if you can. Your talents are worth a good company. Make THEM SELL YOU on their job. Don't take a stance of hope. Make sure they leave the interview knowing you are the right person, and the question is "will YOU accept their offer?"
Good luck!
Such a depressing post. So the poor lad who spent his time to come interview doesn't deserve you to spent, literally 2 minutes sending him a rejection email?
People are so self absorbed nowadays. You can't even find the time to at least thank someone for their time (and we're talking many hours here, and probably money to commute to your office) and wish them good luck.
Surprised to see you on HN mister overwhelmed.
People are so self absorbed nowadays. You can't even find the time to at least thank someone for their time (and we're talking many hours here, and probably money to commute to your office) and wish them good luck.
Surprised to see you on HN mister overwhelmed.
> If I took the time to contact all the people I passed on to give them an explanation, it would consume more time than I can afford.
Maybe so, but a mail merge to say something to the effect of,
'Dear X,
Thankyou for taking the time to interview. On this occassion another candidate was a better fit, but we invite you to reapply if you see something you like in the future and wish you the best of luck finding suitable employment.
Kind regards, Y'
Takes a few minutes.
Maybe so, but a mail merge to say something to the effect of,
'Dear X,
Thankyou for taking the time to interview. On this occassion another candidate was a better fit, but we invite you to reapply if you see something you like in the future and wish you the best of luck finding suitable employment.
Kind regards, Y'
Takes a few minutes.
Thanks! Yes I am starting to understand thats how it works. Job hunting is a lot similar to selling. If I as a person (or product) is able to be 'wanted', I can be hired faster.
I used to do a bit of this and it's a sort-of paradox. (I'm referring entirely to my last job, not my current where I have not done hiring yet and we've brought on several people in a very short period of time)
On the one hand, we hire because we desperately need someone to fill a role we're now doing in addition to our current work.
On the other hand, we are so miserably overwhelmed with work that going through the mess of things with HR to get everything figured out takes way longer than it should. In the middle of that might also be something happening to the position itself -- it was open and available when we listed it, but now the company's financials came out and we don't know if the position is still available. So we sit on it, for weeks, waiting to hear back from a VP. It gets approved but, nuts, the candidate's found another job already.
But within your question you seem to be asking for help in getting the job. You think you've interviewed well so you might have been within the top few candidates and just didn't get selected. The person who got selected, obviously, was notified. You were not and I guarantee that this will happen most of the time. As an interviewer, we didn't handle any of that communication -- you came to me with a resume attached in an e-mail from our hiring team. I don't even know how to get in touch with you. It sucks and I'm very sorry about that, but at a big corporation, it's pretty typical, unfortunately (and that speaks to a lot of other processes that tend towards being terribly impersonal).
I'd also hate to say it but too often I'd be stuck between 4 adequate candidates and the decision came down to superficial things. The best advice I can give you there is: add some superficial things. Get the work mailing address of the person you interviewed with -- the one who is going to make the decision. Write a hand-written Thank You letter expressing your desire for the position. I've gotten one of those in my life, though I've written one every time. My boss was so impressed by that extra step that I didn't get to pick the person I wanted for the job in favor of the other gal. She turned out to be a fantastic hire, so no hard feelings, but she literally won out because of a thank-you note.
Edit: To clarify I'm referring to a large corporation, not a startup. Can't recommend working for a good startup enough, it's been a way better situation for me.
On the one hand, we hire because we desperately need someone to fill a role we're now doing in addition to our current work.
On the other hand, we are so miserably overwhelmed with work that going through the mess of things with HR to get everything figured out takes way longer than it should. In the middle of that might also be something happening to the position itself -- it was open and available when we listed it, but now the company's financials came out and we don't know if the position is still available. So we sit on it, for weeks, waiting to hear back from a VP. It gets approved but, nuts, the candidate's found another job already.
But within your question you seem to be asking for help in getting the job. You think you've interviewed well so you might have been within the top few candidates and just didn't get selected. The person who got selected, obviously, was notified. You were not and I guarantee that this will happen most of the time. As an interviewer, we didn't handle any of that communication -- you came to me with a resume attached in an e-mail from our hiring team. I don't even know how to get in touch with you. It sucks and I'm very sorry about that, but at a big corporation, it's pretty typical, unfortunately (and that speaks to a lot of other processes that tend towards being terribly impersonal).
I'd also hate to say it but too often I'd be stuck between 4 adequate candidates and the decision came down to superficial things. The best advice I can give you there is: add some superficial things. Get the work mailing address of the person you interviewed with -- the one who is going to make the decision. Write a hand-written Thank You letter expressing your desire for the position. I've gotten one of those in my life, though I've written one every time. My boss was so impressed by that extra step that I didn't get to pick the person I wanted for the job in favor of the other gal. She turned out to be a fantastic hire, so no hard feelings, but she literally won out because of a thank-you note.
Edit: To clarify I'm referring to a large corporation, not a startup. Can't recommend working for a good startup enough, it's been a way better situation for me.
I also found that startups are usually more communicative and move more quickly. The bigger companies go through HR and a lot gets lost in between. After finishing all the interviews at one company, they told me that they were interested but will only speed up the process and offer me if I get another offer which is strange thing to say. I understand they dont have a position open now but still.
After interviewing enough, my conclusion has been to not get so enamored with a particular company. It is just like falling in love with a particular university, or a particular person on first sight - irrational, and usually ends up with dashed hopes & missed opportunities from being too single-minded (and even lower pay).
I have had this experience with big and small companies - one big company gave the silent treatment during salary negotiations. Some smaller companies have lost track of the process at various stages. My approach now is to just mentally tally the companies I am interviewing with and if one falls on the wayside, I keep it in mind as negative signal for any future interaction with anyone with an association with the company - the strength of the signal depends on the size of the company (the larger, the smaller weight) and the nature of the problem.
I have had this experience with big and small companies - one big company gave the silent treatment during salary negotiations. Some smaller companies have lost track of the process at various stages. My approach now is to just mentally tally the companies I am interviewing with and if one falls on the wayside, I keep it in mind as negative signal for any future interaction with anyone with an association with the company - the strength of the signal depends on the size of the company (the larger, the smaller weight) and the nature of the problem.
This is very unprofessional but not uncommon at bigger companies. They just don't care. First, chances are you were not even interviewing for a real position, they were just using you to collect data ("who is out there", "what kind of money do they want", "what are they making now", etc)
Second, why take a chance to get back to you and tell you it wouldn't work out? You're gonna ask why and what are the gonna say? "Not a good fit"? Even this made up reason doesn't work anymore, since people start suing for discrimination.
I've found that this behavior is very rare at small shops and startups since they care about their reputation and try to not alienate people in their area.
Second, why take a chance to get back to you and tell you it wouldn't work out? You're gonna ask why and what are the gonna say? "Not a good fit"? Even this made up reason doesn't work anymore, since people start suing for discrimination.
I've found that this behavior is very rare at small shops and startups since they care about their reputation and try to not alienate people in their area.
Startups tend to work faster and schedule things pretty quickly. I found that the bigger companies are really good at putting people in a limbo and not bothering that much unless they really want you or if you were referred by someone at the company.
People are rude and their inboxes are full. Use the phone when you follow up and leave a voicemail. Do this 2 or 3 times and the move on.
Sometimes you'll feel the most hopeless right before a breakthrough. This has happened with 4 companies, but the 5th might be a perfect fit. Be persistent.
If you do get those companies on the phone, be brave enough to ask them why they passed. If they don't know, ask they if they can put you in touch with the interviewer. You can't work on your weaknesses if you don't know what they are (and people rarely know for sure).
Sometimes you'll feel the most hopeless right before a breakthrough. This has happened with 4 companies, but the 5th might be a perfect fit. Be persistent.
If you do get those companies on the phone, be brave enough to ask them why they passed. If they don't know, ask they if they can put you in touch with the interviewer. You can't work on your weaknesses if you don't know what they are (and people rarely know for sure).
Yes thanks for the advice. I do hope to follow up with some calls soon.
They stop communicating totally as if the company doesnt even exist. They dont send any emails accepting or rejecting me (has been weeks). This has happened with 4 companies so far and I am fed up of sending email asking them again (mind you these are big named ones trending here often).
I dont mind being rejected. But to leave me 'hoping' is the biggest problem I have with them. I understand that you dont want a bad hire but atleast saying that you are not a fit right now is what I am expecting.
I also find this to be a bigger problem in the US than in some other countries I have worked.