Ask HN: Does anyone else feel stupid reading Hacker News?
Reading other peoples comments and their knowledge on subjects, some I didn't even know existed makes me feel very unwise. I am saying this as a university student majoring in computer engineering with senior standing.
58 comments
Just this morning I met with a doctor who is well-published and widely respected in his subspecialty, and the first thing he told me was "I used to think I knew something about your condition, but I've long since learned I don't." while the practiced humility is (I think) a bit of an affect, it underscores the point: the higher you climb, the better you can see how far off the horizon is. Some people learn their neighborhood really well. Some learn a particular highway really well. Some cut a new road. They're all valid, all can provide a solid living.
You are unwise. You're supposed to be, right out of school—its a peculiarity of this industry that we look at peers who are like five minutes more experienced and see someone presenting themselves as "senior". Humility is a good thing. It sounds like you're self-aware enough to have it, so take that and run with it and realize that your university degree provides you a solid foundation to start learning—its not the end state of the learned.
You are unwise. You're supposed to be, right out of school—its a peculiarity of this industry that we look at peers who are like five minutes more experienced and see someone presenting themselves as "senior". Humility is a good thing. It sounds like you're self-aware enough to have it, so take that and run with it and realize that your university degree provides you a solid foundation to start learning—its not the end state of the learned.
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>Humility is a good thing.
Yes. But our culture does not value humility much. It values arrogance and over-confidence much more. Take a look at characters like Iron Man, or sit through some managerial or high level analyst interviews.
Yes. But our culture does not value humility much. It values arrogance and over-confidence much more. Take a look at characters like Iron Man, or sit through some managerial or high level analyst interviews.
I don't know. I am sure there are plenty of organizations that value arrogance over humility, but I haven't been in any of them. The small companies I have been a part of value confidence, but also humility and honesty.
Not sure if you and I just run in different circles, but folks that are not impressed with blowhards are out there.
Not sure if you and I just run in different circles, but folks that are not impressed with blowhards are out there.
Unfortunately, at large companies (and government and monopolies or oligopolies) it's easier for arrogant people to excel.
I want to find some posts I've seen here on HN that show this attitude.
edit: arrogance is less prevalent amongst technical people, but you can see examples amongst management, traders (read Michael Lewis's books, especially Liar's Poker), salesmen, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar's_Poker
I want to find some posts I've seen here on HN that show this attitude.
edit: arrogance is less prevalent amongst technical people, but you can see examples amongst management, traders (read Michael Lewis's books, especially Liar's Poker), salesmen, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar's_Poker
If you ever come to a point where instead you feel as if you know something about everything, that is when you should be worried.
A favorite saying I encountered during grad school:
<after finishing undergrad>: "I know everything!"
<after finishing Master's>: "I know nothing..."
<after finishing PhD>: "Nobody knows anything."
A favorite saying I encountered during grad school:
<after finishing undergrad>: "I know everything!"
<after finishing Master's>: "I know nothing..."
<after finishing PhD>: "Nobody knows anything."
Absolutely. I am almost in the same position as you. I am a college student majoring in Computer Science. I'm going to be a senior this coming fall but I have only recently switched to CS from Pre-Med so I have a long way to go, particularly from an academic perspective. I've been programming for almost 9 years as a hobby yet I still feel like I have lightyears to go. Even worse, I have nothing to show for those past 9 years. The one thing I'm absolutely sure I have, however, is the passion to continue learning.
When I first joined HN about 6 months ago I couldn't comprehend 80% of the material. I remember browsing through and thinking it all looked like Assembly code. It felt great to be surrounded by such brilliant minds, which is why I kept coming back, but I did feel like a lost puppy. Now, months later, I don't yet consider myself knowledgable enough to be posting comments (this is probably my 5th comment), necessarily, but it feels great to now be able to follow at least 50% of the content. This is the result of two things: a, Browsing HN pretty much daily and b, Programming more, focusing on the things I don't already know.
There aren't many lessons to be learned in your comfort zone. Good luck!
When I first joined HN about 6 months ago I couldn't comprehend 80% of the material. I remember browsing through and thinking it all looked like Assembly code. It felt great to be surrounded by such brilliant minds, which is why I kept coming back, but I did feel like a lost puppy. Now, months later, I don't yet consider myself knowledgable enough to be posting comments (this is probably my 5th comment), necessarily, but it feels great to now be able to follow at least 50% of the content. This is the result of two things: a, Browsing HN pretty much daily and b, Programming more, focusing on the things I don't already know.
There aren't many lessons to be learned in your comfort zone. Good luck!
Hi, I would like to encourage you to contribute when you have something to add. You are part of the HN community.
I've been programming for 17 years (started as a kid), and I also don't understand a lot of what's on HN. The simple fact is that CS is too broad for you to have expert knowledge of every area, and HN is full of articles that are deep dives to pique the interest of specialists.
There was a thread a while back about this exact topic, and someone mentioned that John Carmack doesn't know SQL or anything about relational databases. True masters are rarely generalists.
There was a thread a while back about this exact topic, and someone mentioned that John Carmack doesn't know SQL or anything about relational databases. True masters are rarely generalists.
"I often feel bad that I have zero experience with relational databases. Big gap in my skill sets." ~ John Carmack
https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/457916010234777600
How can someone accomplish so much and not know anything about SQL/RDBMS. Pretty surprising though.
https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/457916010234777600
How can someone accomplish so much and not know anything about SQL/RDBMS. Pretty surprising though.
I'd argue that a lot of his success was directly related to not knowing anything about SQL/RDBMS because they were not required by his specialty.
Instead of spending time learning SQL, which he'd never use while creating a game, he only learned and practiced the skills he used for games. It's incidental that a lot of those skills are fairly universal and low-level, which gives us the false impression that Carmack is a generalist.
Instead of spending time learning SQL, which he'd never use while creating a game, he only learned and practiced the skills he used for games. It's incidental that a lot of those skills are fairly universal and low-level, which gives us the false impression that Carmack is a generalist.
Why not? He doesn't need to use it for his work, why would he spend time learning it vs learning something relevant for his field? Oh, I know, to pass a GYMAAAE interview, but that is a pretty bad reason.
There's a universe of programmers that don't work in the LAMP stack (including me) because it doesn't suit what they are trying to accomplish.
There's a universe of programmers that don't work in the LAMP stack (including me) because it doesn't suit what they are trying to accomplish.
People here tend to limit their comments to areas where they have relatively more knowledge or experience. What you see on HN is tiny slices of thousands of people. Tech is a big place and it's growing fast, there's always more to learn.
> "People here tend to limit their comments to areas where they have relatively more knowledge or experience."
Speak for yourself, what do you do? Personally, I'll read anything that looks interesting, regardless of whether it's something I may be able to comment on.
Speak for yourself, what do you do? Personally, I'll read anything that looks interesting, regardless of whether it's something I may be able to comment on.
Please do not confuse stupidity with ignorance. Albert Einstein was ignorant when he was born. He did not know anything. He was smart and quickly learned much more than many people will ever know.
My first computer program compiled and ran in the summer of 1967. I have spent most of my life since then learning about computers. There is far more information than I can ever hope to learn. New languages crop up nearly every day. I only know about a dozen well enough to write a respectable program in them. I frequrntly get on HN (Hacker News)and find articles about "New release of Zarbodog" and I sometimes click through to see whatI am missing (I've never heard of Zarbodog). Often the article tells about speed improvements, space savings, interoperability with some API but never actually states what Zarbodog is. A well-written article will start off with a sentence or two which tell what it is (hardware, software, website), what OS (Operating System) it is for, what language it is in (or compatible with), and what it is useful for. I see a lot of ACRONYM(Abbreviated Capitalized Randomly Ordered Names Yielding Madness) usage which is not explained upon first usage. This is also a good practice. If your failure to understand the titles or articles stems from lack of background, it is no sign of stupidity. You may never have enough background knowledge to fully understand all of the articles. "Knowledge is being aware that you're on a one-way street; wisdom is knowing to look both ways before crossing it." - old saying
My first computer program compiled and ran in the summer of 1967. I have spent most of my life since then learning about computers. There is far more information than I can ever hope to learn. New languages crop up nearly every day. I only know about a dozen well enough to write a respectable program in them. I frequrntly get on HN (Hacker News)and find articles about "New release of Zarbodog" and I sometimes click through to see whatI am missing (I've never heard of Zarbodog). Often the article tells about speed improvements, space savings, interoperability with some API but never actually states what Zarbodog is. A well-written article will start off with a sentence or two which tell what it is (hardware, software, website), what OS (Operating System) it is for, what language it is in (or compatible with), and what it is useful for. I see a lot of ACRONYM(Abbreviated Capitalized Randomly Ordered Names Yielding Madness) usage which is not explained upon first usage. This is also a good practice. If your failure to understand the titles or articles stems from lack of background, it is no sign of stupidity. You may never have enough background knowledge to fully understand all of the articles. "Knowledge is being aware that you're on a one-way street; wisdom is knowing to look both ways before crossing it." - old saying
Sometimes, when I read the state-of-the-art cs articles, can't hardly understand anything.
But then there's the "lol startup ruby app lol javascript framework!" type articles that convinces me to stay in the deep end of the pool, even if it feels like drowning.
But then there's the "lol startup ruby app lol javascript framework!" type articles that convinces me to stay in the deep end of the pool, even if it feels like drowning.
No I don't feel stupid. Here is why:
There is always someone who is smarter and more knowledgeable than you. What matters is that HN provides easy access to those smart minds and I love it.
There may be people who are not as knowledgeable as you. In that case, I love teaching them what I know.
There is always someone who is smarter and more knowledgeable than you. What matters is that HN provides easy access to those smart minds and I love it.
There may be people who are not as knowledgeable as you. In that case, I love teaching them what I know.
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You may be nearing the end of your time in school, but your education is really only beginning. Most of what you're going to learn will be picked up over the course of your working career. In a few short years, you'll know much more than you do today, and if HN is still around, you'll be impressing people here with your knowledge.
YES, yes a thousand times yes! I read stuff on here to try to keep up-to-date on new things... but frequently it doesn't work because I can't even understand the vocabulary.
Then I'll even try to look up the meaning of an unfamiliar term, but the definition itself uses 5 other terms that I also don't know. So I'll go look up those 5 terms, but by then I'm three levels deep and sure as hell not any closer to the original topic I was trying to learn about.
Yeah man, HN has taught me that I'm straight-up useless! Shew...
Then I'll even try to look up the meaning of an unfamiliar term, but the definition itself uses 5 other terms that I also don't know. So I'll go look up those 5 terms, but by then I'm three levels deep and sure as hell not any closer to the original topic I was trying to learn about.
Yeah man, HN has taught me that I'm straight-up useless! Shew...
Thumbs up to capital YES. :)
If one has the patience to go 3 levels deep every time he/she faces some strange vocabulary, then with each unfamiliar post here, that person will get to witness dozens of new technology which in the end may help him/her to find the right one to scratch beyond the surface.
Hacker News, imho, is one of the places where hard consumption is beneficial for the reader as long as he/she stays sceptical which is a rare occasion in other common social media sources.
If one has the patience to go 3 levels deep every time he/she faces some strange vocabulary, then with each unfamiliar post here, that person will get to witness dozens of new technology which in the end may help him/her to find the right one to scratch beyond the surface.
Hacker News, imho, is one of the places where hard consumption is beneficial for the reader as long as he/she stays sceptical which is a rare occasion in other common social media sources.
Not really, when I started reading HN about 2 years ago I realized there was a lot I needed to catch up on, but since then I feel like I've gotten up to speed on the topics I need / want to care about, and I'm glad to ignore people talking expertly about things I have no interest in (like web frameworks).
Also the more you post here the more you realize how many doofuses there are here (not naming names). If you see someone posting something that makes you think they're smart, start digging thru their post history and see if they're (a) actually smart, (b) just sound smart, or (c) might be smart in this one narrow focused area but have really dumb thoughts about other things.
Also the more you post here the more you realize how many doofuses there are here (not naming names). If you see someone posting something that makes you think they're smart, start digging thru their post history and see if they're (a) actually smart, (b) just sound smart, or (c) might be smart in this one narrow focused area but have really dumb thoughts about other things.
The world is bigger than you thought, but you're still in school, the sensation will pass. In a few years you'll have a better grasp on the breadth of topics you still do not understand.
There will come a day where conversation on HN is no longer humbling, but recognizable as running in circles on topics that have become within your wheelhouse. With any luck you'll be able to differentiate between the handful of knowledgeable people here well-versed in domains you didn't pursue and the people talking out of their ass.
There will come a day where conversation on HN is no longer humbling, but recognizable as running in circles on topics that have become within your wheelhouse. With any luck you'll be able to differentiate between the handful of knowledgeable people here well-versed in domains you didn't pursue and the people talking out of their ass.
I've been a software developer for nearly 11 years. That feeling is why I keep coming back to HN. And only lately did I realize that thankfully that feeling will never end.
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When the Internet starts making you feel bad, turn it off and go for a 3-5 hour long walk. Don't forget your water bottle.
Discard fears of comparison immediately: nobody is judging you. You already recognize areas in which you still have learning to do - that is perhaps the hardest step.
Think about the area you have identified. Chiefly, is it worth learning? Would you find it stimulating or useful? Channel your decision in to confident curiosity, and your curiosity in to learning.
One day, if you keep going, you can confidently launch in to this sort of broad, deep, out-of-context learning routinely and without stress or great difficulty.
Just remember: life's too short to try to learn everything. Some people love being the expert at something, others prefer a more distant, 'renaissance man' or talented generalist approach. There is no single path, just be confident building your own.
Think about the area you have identified. Chiefly, is it worth learning? Would you find it stimulating or useful? Channel your decision in to confident curiosity, and your curiosity in to learning.
One day, if you keep going, you can confidently launch in to this sort of broad, deep, out-of-context learning routinely and without stress or great difficulty.
Just remember: life's too short to try to learn everything. Some people love being the expert at something, others prefer a more distant, 'renaissance man' or talented generalist approach. There is no single path, just be confident building your own.
This is actually one of the major reasons I read HN. Not so I can make myself feel stupid, per se; but to get better insights into things I don't experience in my offline life (job, friends, etc..) Just make sure you don't get caught up in feeling like your stupid. It's counterproductive, we all have different backgrounds and experiences. Some people here have highly specialized backgrounds but are completely oblivious to other areas. Some have 30 years experience in a field, some are brand new. I just try to learn more in my skillset and compare myself to myself only, incrementally getting better (at least thats the goal)
Be sure to read some of the other comments for balance. In particular, the ones where people mistake their aptitude for copypasta language-du-jour for a deep understanding of subjects in which they have zero training or experience.
I see most articles as a constant reminder that I really should be _doing_ and _creating_, as a lot of those people do, rather than be reading stuff on sites like Hacker News...
Not stupid as such, because I know a bit about a few things, but I certainly consider myself in the lowest 20% smarts-wise around here.
And that's fine, actually. I've been exposed to a great amount of things that, had I not been here, I would never had seen.
Being in the lowest 20%, or at least my self-perception of that, means there's a whole lot I can do to improve and rise up the scale, as and when or if I choose to.
And that's fine, actually. I've been exposed to a great amount of things that, had I not been here, I would never had seen.
Being in the lowest 20%, or at least my self-perception of that, means there's a whole lot I can do to improve and rise up the scale, as and when or if I choose to.
Stay focused on doing.
Don't spend too much time reading about other people doing.
Spend your time learning and not being entertained.
You'll be just fine.
Don't spend too much time reading about other people doing.
Spend your time learning and not being entertained.
You'll be just fine.
No, it doesn't make me feel stupid... it makes me feel undisciplined and lazy.
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Stupid, Lost, Depressed !
“The ancient oracle said that I was the wisest of all the Greeks. It is because I alone, of all the Greeks, know that I know nothing." (political phun not intended)
I 100% agree - I'm only a college sophomore though, so I at least have time, but the pedigree difference between me and the average HN reader is astounding.
That's exactly why I come here: to improve. Life starts at the end of your confort zone.
Remember that ability to write about things isn't the same as knowledge or understanding.
'You know, everybody's ignorant, just on different subjects.' - Will Rogers
Just be humble in knowing that the technology landscape today is vast and ever-expanding.
A clique celebrating itself. Don't feel intimidated.
Look up "Imposter syndrome". Most of us have it.
Three things:
1. Startup Culture is "meme"-able (see https://archive.is/UZ5Wp)
2. Political Correctness trolls / beta male white knights (the jackals)
3. The normal deficiencies that come with any karma based system, "circle jerk".
That said, I get away with truths here that'd never fly on reddit. Ranked by freedom of thought (Worst -> Best):
DevShed Forums -> StackOverflow (Unconstructive) -> Reddit (Paoist) -> Reddit (Pre-Pao) -> HN -> /g/
/g/'s huge benefit is anonymity and karma-less system. You get used to ignoring the cruft. The problem is it's the ultimate extreme end of the spectrum.
1. Startup Culture is "meme"-able (see https://archive.is/UZ5Wp)
2. Political Correctness trolls / beta male white knights (the jackals)
3. The normal deficiencies that come with any karma based system, "circle jerk".
That said, I get away with truths here that'd never fly on reddit. Ranked by freedom of thought (Worst -> Best):
DevShed Forums -> StackOverflow (Unconstructive) -> Reddit (Paoist) -> Reddit (Pre-Pao) -> HN -> /g/
/g/'s huge benefit is anonymity and karma-less system. You get used to ignoring the cruft. The problem is it's the ultimate extreme end of the spectrum.