Ask HN: I got rejected from Facebook, Dropbox, Microsoft, Quora, What's Wrong?
Hi,
I'm a student who was applying for a summer internship and got rejected from all the companies to which I applied from the CV phase. Didn't even get to the interview phase. I got rejected from Facebook ( twice ) even with a referral, got rejected from Dropbox, got rejected from Quora, didn't even get a reply from Microsoft. I thought that my resume is good enough for someone in my age but apparently I was wrong. Is there anything that bad in my resume (http://mbassem.com/assets/files/MohamedBassemResume.pdf)? Thank you.
39 comments
Your resume is fine (just make the GPA more obvious - convert to 4.0 scale or something).
I've worked at some of the companies you mentioned and I regularly do technical interviews for internships. Here are some tips:
- Try to get a referral. This is by far the easiest way to stand out if you are not from some of the top colleges the company is actively targeting (top tier firms go on campus recruiting trips to the best schools in US and they get most of their candidates from that pool). Explore your network - do you know anyone that went to your school and now works at one of these companies? Ping them.
- Start applying early. Usually the company decides upfront how many internships they're going to offer that year. So if you apply late, your changes of getting in are lower - they've very few slots left and they can be very selective. Go on LinkedIn and look for recruiters from the company who handle University Recruiting specifically. Ping them and ask them about internships and their recruiting schedule.
- Try applying to companies in Europe like someone else suggested.
Also don't worry too much if you don't get into your dream internship now - it's not the end of the world. I have been in a similar boat - I went to school in Singapore and I got rejected by every single company in your list for internships (my school is one of the top 3 schools in Asia but that still didn't help). Instead I ended up interning at some local startups. 6 years later things have changed - I've worked for some of the companies on your list and every company that has rejected me in the past is now trying to actively recruit me. So don't get disappointed - keep learning, contribute to open source projects, apply to Google Summer of Code, keep participating in competitive programming contests and be the best you can be.
I've worked at some of the companies you mentioned and I regularly do technical interviews for internships. Here are some tips:
- Try to get a referral. This is by far the easiest way to stand out if you are not from some of the top colleges the company is actively targeting (top tier firms go on campus recruiting trips to the best schools in US and they get most of their candidates from that pool). Explore your network - do you know anyone that went to your school and now works at one of these companies? Ping them.
- Start applying early. Usually the company decides upfront how many internships they're going to offer that year. So if you apply late, your changes of getting in are lower - they've very few slots left and they can be very selective. Go on LinkedIn and look for recruiters from the company who handle University Recruiting specifically. Ping them and ask them about internships and their recruiting schedule.
- Try applying to companies in Europe like someone else suggested.
Also don't worry too much if you don't get into your dream internship now - it's not the end of the world. I have been in a similar boat - I went to school in Singapore and I got rejected by every single company in your list for internships (my school is one of the top 3 schools in Asia but that still didn't help). Instead I ended up interning at some local startups. 6 years later things have changed - I've worked for some of the companies on your list and every company that has rejected me in the past is now trying to actively recruit me. So don't get disappointed - keep learning, contribute to open source projects, apply to Google Summer of Code, keep participating in competitive programming contests and be the best you can be.
[deleted]
As a foreigner I can relate to your issues, and yes being from Egypt makes a massive difference.
Be aware that your visa petition will be evaluated by different agencies, namely USCIS and DHS. DHS will see if they want you to enter the country or deem you a danger and will deny you entry. So my tip, if you are serious about wanting to work in the USA is getting a tourist visa. This will trigger the DHS check. Then, visit the Bay Area, go to meetups and hackathons and meet people in person. Having entered the USA will make you seem less of a issue to get an J1 visa.
Be aware that your visa petition will be evaluated by different agencies, namely USCIS and DHS. DHS will see if they want you to enter the country or deem you a danger and will deny you entry. So my tip, if you are serious about wanting to work in the USA is getting a tourist visa. This will trigger the DHS check. Then, visit the Bay Area, go to meetups and hackathons and meet people in person. Having entered the USA will make you seem less of a issue to get an J1 visa.
Those are some big companies, and not a lot of them at that. I've had friends who've done 30 applications with only 2 offers. Don't be too hard on yourself, and apply like crazy next year. In the meantime email a ton of startups and ask if they're still hiring :)
Read these books: The Go-Getter, Who Moved My Cheese, QBQ!, Rhinoceros success, The Go-Giver. They're all short and each can be read in a couple hours. They'll change you.
- They're not willing to sponsor a visa for an intern.
- Your GPA looks like a failing grade to bots and HR staff who are not familiar with Egyptian school system.
why do you look at US companies? Israel has lots of high-tech firms, as do other Arabian countries. Also, have you tried applying via their career pages in different countries? The US based internships are probably applied for 10x more then those offered in other locales.
You've applied for jobs at the big guys. Try someone smaller.
It looks like you've got two things going against you, feel free to correct my assumptions if I'm wrong:
1. You're applying to US internships while not residing within the country. Work-sponsored visas are scarce and costly, most companies will not invest the level of resources required for an internship. You need to get here first and apply second.
2. You're applying to some of the biggest tech brands in the world and your resume is average at best. Average doesn't get you into these kind of companies, even with referrals. So even if #1 isn't the problem, your resume needs to be more compelling. Here's some of my experience bullet points to illustrate what I mean by more compelling:
- Led development of numerous features for a proven B2B SaaS Product using MongoDB, Express.js, Angular.js, and Node.js.
- Built a facial-recognition utility in Node.js for mass provisioning of user avatars during the company onboarding process.
- Developed a HTML5-based digital signage solution for Google Chromecast with multicast capabilities.
As for how you improve our own bullet points, here's my suggestion:
1. Each bullet point should be thought of as a conversation starter. They need to lead into a story that the recruiter wants to hear during the interview phase.
2. Context/Terminology. These companies have their tech stack already picked out; they want people who at the very least, have demonstrated some type of experience with what they're using. I could have simply said JavaScript in my bullet points, but it's too ambiguous and does not convey what I want to work with. If I'm a company that uses Angular, I don't want to waste my time interviewing someone who's JavaScript expertise is limited to jQuery. (As you can tell, I'm a JS developer; sorry I can't provide better context to help you in the rails/php area)
Other resume suggestions:
- Rearrange your sections. Highlight experience and skills ahead of education, as that's what tech companies will be interested in first.
- Your project highlights are boring. If you're going to highlight projects on a resume, a recruiter needs to be able to identify a use case behind what's written.
- Either get rid of "2nd top ranked student in my faculty." achievement or provide better context. It's doing a disservice to every achievement listed below it.
- Your skills make you sound like a jack of all trades. Jack of all trades are generally assumed to be a master of none. While I'm proficient in a wide range of technologies, I limit what I present to what I want the conversation to be focused on.
1. You're applying to US internships while not residing within the country. Work-sponsored visas are scarce and costly, most companies will not invest the level of resources required for an internship. You need to get here first and apply second.
2. You're applying to some of the biggest tech brands in the world and your resume is average at best. Average doesn't get you into these kind of companies, even with referrals. So even if #1 isn't the problem, your resume needs to be more compelling. Here's some of my experience bullet points to illustrate what I mean by more compelling:
- Led development of numerous features for a proven B2B SaaS Product using MongoDB, Express.js, Angular.js, and Node.js.
- Built a facial-recognition utility in Node.js for mass provisioning of user avatars during the company onboarding process.
- Developed a HTML5-based digital signage solution for Google Chromecast with multicast capabilities.
As for how you improve our own bullet points, here's my suggestion:
1. Each bullet point should be thought of as a conversation starter. They need to lead into a story that the recruiter wants to hear during the interview phase.
2. Context/Terminology. These companies have their tech stack already picked out; they want people who at the very least, have demonstrated some type of experience with what they're using. I could have simply said JavaScript in my bullet points, but it's too ambiguous and does not convey what I want to work with. If I'm a company that uses Angular, I don't want to waste my time interviewing someone who's JavaScript expertise is limited to jQuery. (As you can tell, I'm a JS developer; sorry I can't provide better context to help you in the rails/php area)
Other resume suggestions:
- Rearrange your sections. Highlight experience and skills ahead of education, as that's what tech companies will be interested in first.
- Your project highlights are boring. If you're going to highlight projects on a resume, a recruiter needs to be able to identify a use case behind what's written.
- Either get rid of "2nd top ranked student in my faculty." achievement or provide better context. It's doing a disservice to every achievement listed below it.
- Your skills make you sound like a jack of all trades. Jack of all trades are generally assumed to be a master of none. While I'm proficient in a wide range of technologies, I limit what I present to what I want the conversation to be focused on.
It's often not the CV, it's often the covering letter. The CV provides evidence for your claims, but the covering letter is how and where you ask for the position. Without that it's hard to comment.
For those who are interested, I've added a direct link to the CV to make it easier to read:
Link: http://mbassem.com/assets/files/MohamedBassemResume.pdf
Edit: Interesting. I'm trying to help out here and make it easier for people to have a look at the link provided. It reduces friction, and costs nothing for the people who don't care. Yet someone clearly thinks this is the wrong thing to do and has down-voted me. I'd welcome the opportunity to learn: why should adding the link be regarded as the wrong thing to do? Thanks.
For those who are interested, I've added a direct link to the CV to make it easier to read:
Link: http://mbassem.com/assets/files/MohamedBassemResume.pdf
Edit: Interesting. I'm trying to help out here and make it easier for people to have a look at the link provided. It reduces friction, and costs nothing for the people who don't care. Yet someone clearly thinks this is the wrong thing to do and has down-voted me. I'd welcome the opportunity to learn: why should adding the link be regarded as the wrong thing to do? Thanks.
You are likely downvoted not for the link, but for the actual comment.
The OP appears to be trying to get an internship position in the US while being in Egypt. It is absolutely positively has nothing to do with the cover letter, so your comment is just off by a very wide margin, but it sits at the top because of your massive karma.
The OP appears to be trying to get an internship position in the US while being in Egypt. It is absolutely positively has nothing to do with the cover letter, so your comment is just off by a very wide margin, but it sits at the top because of your massive karma.
> The OP appears to be trying to get an internship
> position in the US while being in Egypt. It is
> absolutely positively has nothing to do with the
> cover letter, so your comment is just off by a
> very wide margin, ...
> ... it sits at the top because of your massive karma.
> Are you sure about that?
Positive. No US company will bother with visa headaches for an intern regardless of how exciting the cover letter is. Further compounded by the fact that he's from Egypt, which is a 3rd world country with a highly unstable situation. I suspect you were never exposed to all the pleasures of the US visa process, which would explain your rather naive view of the situation.
Positive. No US company will bother with visa headaches for an intern regardless of how exciting the cover letter is. Further compounded by the fact that he's from Egypt, which is a 3rd world country with a highly unstable situation. I suspect you were never exposed to all the pleasures of the US visa process, which would explain your rather naive view of the situation.
Internships in European countries are entirely plausible. US visa situation is an exception to the rule among developed countries.
For example, Facebook has London offices, which is their go-to solution for US visa troubles.
Egypt might be "3rd world" in somebody's book, but I've never heard about the visa process being particularly racially biased (at least US visa process).
For example, Facebook has London offices, which is their go-to solution for US visa troubles.
Egypt might be "3rd world" in somebody's book, but I've never heard about the visa process being particularly racially biased (at least US visa process).
>I've never heard about the visa process being particularly racially biased (at least US visa process)
I just dont even know where to begin. The only way I can understand this statement is if you never heard anything about the process, period.
I just dont even know where to begin. The only way I can understand this statement is if you never heard anything about the process, period.
Its not about racial bias. Its about background checks, and making sure that the internship is genuine and in one of your uncle's US companies.
Plus you should appear confident and genuine, in the in-person interview.
Microsoft bothered with the visa headaches for me when I interned from Australia. It makes sense, too: internships lead to full-time positions.
Are you serious? Why would a U.S. company want to hire an intern that they have to get a visa for? Unless this guy is applying for internships with Facebook in Egypt, there's absolutely no incentive for a U.S. based company to seek to employ foreign nationals for a position that is largely non-skilled.
That would be a reasonable guess, but it seems not to be the case. It got downvoted when it was just the link and nothing else. I added the extra comments to try to flesh it out, and since then have received around 15 up-votes.
Edit: and more down-votes as well. Fascinating to see the drive-by down-votes.
Edit: and more down-votes as well. Fascinating to see the drive-by down-votes.
I highly doubt this has to do with cover letters. From Google's Job FAQ:
"Cover letters are optional, and applications with them are not preferred over those without. We recommend using a cover letter only to bring up anything that would not be evident from the rest of your application. It can also be an opportunity to let Google know about you as an individual, in addition to why you're a good fit for the organization. We strongly recommend using your resume to represent your candidacy."
http://www.google.com/intl/cn/jobs/students/sga/mba/internsh...
From a Google Screener: "As a heavy interviewer and occasional resume screener at Google, I rarely look at the cover letter. Your resume should give me enough context for whether you have the key experience for the role." http://www.quora.com/How-should-a-cover-letter-for-Google-lo...
From a Google Screener: "As a heavy interviewer and occasional resume screener at Google, I rarely look at the cover letter. Your resume should give me enough context for whether you have the key experience for the role." http://www.quora.com/How-should-a-cover-letter-for-Google-lo...
Right. Based on one of the other comments I've gone to have a look at that. Things have changed, and may be significantly different at places like Google as opposed to my experience. I've only ever been hiring at startups and small companies, and never in the US.
I guess it's also different for an internship as opposed to a job. As someone with 20 years of experience in running companies, when faced with a bare CV I can never tell what someone will be like in a company. I always like to see someone tell me why they add value, and then back up their claims with evidence from their CV, but I guess that doesn't apply here.
All that being said, if all they look at is the CV then a bare recitation might not be the best presentation. It would be interesting to look at how to make a better "CV" for this purpose.
Anyway, thanks for the information - appreciate it.
I guess it's also different for an internship as opposed to a job. As someone with 20 years of experience in running companies, when faced with a bare CV I can never tell what someone will be like in a company. I always like to see someone tell me why they add value, and then back up their claims with evidence from their CV, but I guess that doesn't apply here.
All that being said, if all they look at is the CV then a bare recitation might not be the best presentation. It would be interesting to look at how to make a better "CV" for this purpose.
Anyway, thanks for the information - appreciate it.
AFAIK, a number of these companies don't even ask for a cover letter as part of the internship application process.
Interesting, I did not know that. I should look into it, because I'd be very surprised if the application process just asked for a bare CV.
Thanks for the feedback, I'll go and do some quiet digging.
Thanks for the feedback, I'll go and do some quiet digging.
[deleted]
For the companies in this list that I have direct experience with, the cover letter is never read and not even available during hiring decisions.
I don't remember the last time I wrote a cover letter..
I'm the opposite, the last two jobs I've gotten I've written a cover letter, and not included a CV (does that make it just a 'letter'?).
> Yet someone clearly thinks this is the wrong thing to do and has down-voted me. I'd welcome the opportunity to learn: why should adding the link be regarded as the wrong thing to do?
It has nothing to do with the content of your comment. Baseless downvoting is part of the HN culture and it's usually corrected by upvotes in an hour or so.
It has nothing to do with the content of your comment. Baseless downvoting is part of the HN culture and it's usually corrected by upvotes in an hour or so.
Wow, you are ACM ICPC finalist, that's a wonderful achievement. It's strange you didn't get into interview.
> GPA : 0.86 out of 0.7 (A+) What does that mean?
> GPA : 0.86 out of 0.7 (A+) What does that mean?
Thank you :)
In my university our GPA scale is inverted. The best you can achieve is 0.7 which corresponds to an A+ and the worst is 5.0 which is an F.
The HR (Human Resources) people at American companies are used to the American system of measuring Grades -- usually on the 4.0 scale (0.0 = F, 3.0 = B, 4.0 = A). Just convert your GPA to the 4.0 scale and write that on your resume. Or just write down "A+" average.
You want to make it as clear as possible that you are a strong applicant. Don't make the HR people think too hard about converting your GPA. They'll just get confused.
You want to make it as clear as possible that you are a strong applicant. Don't make the HR people think too hard about converting your GPA. They'll just get confused.
Wouldn't it be safer if he used some sort of percentile system? Something like 5%-10% for the GPA-equivalent exam in Egypt? (with the actual score afterwards in case they want to check).
[deleted]
This was the first thing I noticed.
I automatically associate the term 'GPA' with the American-style 4-point scale. I'm not aware that GPA is often used in other contexts. If this is understood on these terms, it will be an instant rejection.
There's also further confusion with 70% vs 86%.
Perhaps it would help to use the appropriate German term?
I automatically associate the term 'GPA' with the American-style 4-point scale. I'm not aware that GPA is often used in other contexts. If this is understood on these terms, it will be an instant rejection.
There's also further confusion with 70% vs 86%.
Perhaps it would help to use the appropriate German term?
It's curious that the USA has effectively standardized on a 4 point GPA scale, yet Australia is still a complete catastrophe of marks. The universities in my city use a 7 point scale with 4 being a pass and 7 being 100%, meanwhile the one 100km south will use an American scale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_grading_in_Australia
I actually don't know whether it would be more appropriate when conveying my marks to those in other countries to convert, or to just explain the scale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_grading_in_Australia
I actually don't know whether it would be more appropriate when conveying my marks to those in other countries to convert, or to just explain the scale.
You might provide appropriate local conversions - to a 4.0 scale for US companies, for instance
To hazard a guess, 70% is the maximum grade (which I've been told isn't that good in US standards, so just saying "I've got 86%" - which is a very good grade, might get looked at the wrong way by a US company.
If I'm converting this properly that means in the States, he's actually a B/B+ student. 3.255813953 GPA. B+ being 3.3.
The fact that you're asking and writing this in English leads me to believe you sent your resume to the companies in the USA.
Those companies may have some problem in relocating you and dealing with the visa red-tape.
On the other hand, if you sent your resume to Egyptian branches of those companies, I see no reason why they should specifically reject it.
I see that you were intern in a German company. In Europe, foreign students are allowed to intern in European companies, but once graduated, they have to go back to their country and request a work visa to come back working in the European Union. Similarly to the USA, if you sent your resume to German branches of those companies, they may have some difficulty hiring your for lack of a visa and work permit.
Those companies may have some problem in relocating you and dealing with the visa red-tape.
On the other hand, if you sent your resume to Egyptian branches of those companies, I see no reason why they should specifically reject it.
I see that you were intern in a German company. In Europe, foreign students are allowed to intern in European companies, but once graduated, they have to go back to their country and request a work visa to come back working in the European Union. Similarly to the USA, if you sent your resume to German branches of those companies, they may have some difficulty hiring your for lack of a visa and work permit.
This is most likely the answer. There's a non-trivial cost for bringing foreign workers into the US and they are probably much less likely to consider it given that this is an internship opportunity and not something full-time.
Well, In Egypt there are no branches for those companies. The only one I know of is a small research lab for Microsoft.
Remember lots of these things come down to luck. Resume looks more impressive than me, and I did get one of those internships. Just keep trying and don't take it personally.
my best guess, is that it has (very unfortunately) to do with Visas :/
That's most likely the answer. I've been an expat from down the equator for more than 15 years and most US companies will not bother offering sponsorships for someone without some seniority already. Europe is more accepting regarding this.
Your resume could use some polishing, but I don't think that this is the problem at all.
Your resume could use some polishing, but I don't think that this is the problem at all.
try looking for internships in Europe, they're a lot better at getting foreigners in as Interns. Germany especially, and since you have experience there before it may not be a bad idea. There are several good startups in Berlin looking for people with your skillset. Leave a comment if you're interested and I'll drop you a mail with some leads in Berlin.
Yeah for sure I'm interested. That would be great, Thank you!
Facebook has a large Engineering office in London these days and we take interns.
If you're interested email me.
If you're interested email me.
You are on the wrong side of the Atlantic Ocean.
You don't need a big company to validate you. Just go an become an expert and do something awesome. Stop waiting for someone to give you permission.
Based on the student status, I imagine it's less about wanting validation and more about the combo of needing money and wanting to be a part of the cool stuff that these companies do. Of course big companies aren't the only ones doing cool stuff, but they're the most obvious, often the most accessible, and almost always the ones willing to shell out the biggest stipends. (Plus, principles aside, there's no denying the effect that having a big company on your resume can have when applying for your dream job wherever.)
if you were applying to the US branches, then visa red tape was likely culprit - it's awfully time consuming and expensive to get an intern (who doesn't already have a J1-like visa into the country for just 2-3 months internship.
Apply for local subsidiaries as first order of business.
Unrelated: what's with highlighting keywords in resumes lately? Who cares what language a system is in? If rather read why it was important and what business problem it solved.
Apply for local subsidiaries as first order of business.
Unrelated: what's with highlighting keywords in resumes lately? Who cares what language a system is in? If rather read why it was important and what business problem it solved.
Also, what's up with inconsistent capitalization and inconsistent highlighting. That drives me crazy.
As ridiculous as it may be, I think the presentation of your CV matters, especially with trendy big techs. Maybe try dressing it up a bit. Have a look at mine if you want: https://www.dropbox.com/s/agffmbzdqvckqta/CV_v2.6.pdf?dl=0.
I've had some good feedback (including interviews/offers from the companies you mentioned).
Also I'm curious to know where you applied. I've found that the barrier is higher when applying abroad, especially the US.
Also I'm curious to know where you applied. I've found that the barrier is higher when applying abroad, especially the US.
I like it! What did you use to layout your CV?
You may have also had interviews/offers due to the prestige of your University... Warwick is very highly thought of
I've been tempted to do something like this with my CV. However, I'm concerned that the use of icons and colours might be seen as immature, unless of course you're looking for a position as a designer: in which case it makes perfect sense. Have you had any feedback on your CV format which you might be able to share?
Fair point, there definitely is a danger of over doing it. I'd keep it simple. Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication after all.
A designer at a startup that I interviewed with, said it stood out from the hundreds of other CV's they'd received which meant they at least looked at it.
I've been told that my CV is OK for startups and the above companies. Less so for fintech, big corporates and academia.
A designer at a startup that I interviewed with, said it stood out from the hundreds of other CV's they'd received which meant they at least looked at it.
I've been told that my CV is OK for startups and the above companies. Less so for fintech, big corporates and academia.
Your Twitter account in your CV returns a 404 currently - https://twitter.com/haackathon
Thanks for that. Yeah I have a bad habit of changing my twitter handle every now and then.
If you're interested my handle is https://twitter.com/haakathon
If you're interested my handle is https://twitter.com/haakathon
I always find it odd to include details like full address/age. Isn't it unnecessary? If they need your address, they're probably hiring you anyway. If they don't need it, it just adds to the amount of personal data someone who isn't hiring you will possess.
>I always find it odd to include details like full address/age. Isn't it unnecessary?
Granted this was maybe 10 years ago, but I was warned explicitly not to add age or family items (like married 3 kids) by a consultant from Gallup that was giving a group presentation / lecture.
Granted this was maybe 10 years ago, but I was warned explicitly not to add age or family items (like married 3 kids) by a consultant from Gallup that was giving a group presentation / lecture.
I have no idea why I have my address. Thanks for pointing that out, will definitely remove that in future. I guess it's at least useful for companies to know which country I am currently residing in.
I've heard mixed things about personal details including age, gender and nationality. Some argue that it's a problem for companies with regards to abiding with discrimination acts (especially US). I include nationality as most of my applications are abroad and my nationality gives some indication of visa requirements.
I've heard mixed things about personal details including age, gender and nationality. Some argue that it's a problem for companies with regards to abiding with discrimination acts (especially US). I include nationality as most of my applications are abroad and my nationality gives some indication of visa requirements.
In the US, employers aren't allowed to ask for that information for legal reasons; as such, it's typically considered inappropriate for a candidate to furnish that information.
Thanks for the advice will do that for sure! Concerning your questions I applied mostly to US based companies( Facebook, Google, Quora, Dropbox, Box, Pinterest, ..).
[deleted](2)
Your resume is fine for being a student. It is clear you are excelling in your academics and are also taking on some real-world experience.
A couple of questions:
- Where are you based?
- Where are you applying for these internships?
- Are you aware that some of the internships you are applying for are being applied for by 1000s of candidates around the world?
- Are you aware that if you are applying for an internship outside the country you reside you are at a disadvantage because it places an extra burden on the company?
I wouldn't stir too much on why you got down-voted, as there is no scientific correlation between your action and receiving a down vote (or an up vote).
A couple of questions:
- Where are you based?
- Where are you applying for these internships?
- Are you aware that some of the internships you are applying for are being applied for by 1000s of candidates around the world?
- Are you aware that if you are applying for an internship outside the country you reside you are at a disadvantage because it places an extra burden on the company?
I wouldn't stir too much on why you got down-voted, as there is no scientific correlation between your action and receiving a down vote (or an up vote).
> I wouldn't stir too much on why you got down-voted,
> as there is no scientific correlation between your
> action and receiving a down vote (or an up vote).
Thank you. Concerning your questions :
- I'm based in Egypt.
- I'm applying either with a referral or directly from their career page.
- Yes and Yes.
- I'm based in Egypt.
- I'm applying either with a referral or directly from their career page.
- Yes and Yes.
Just like everyone can't be a multi-billion paid CEO for a international mega-corp, not everyone can be a engineering whiz at a big & famous international mega-corp.
Some things are just down to luck.
Instead of focusing only on the "big ones", just go get your first good job elsewhere. The important part isn't which company it is, but that the job makes you happy and satisfied.
Once there take the opportunities you can and work your way up gradually. You may not end up where you thought you would or where you planned, but if you stayed focused on job-satisfaction all the way through, you'll end up somewhere you'll be happy to stay.
And that's much more important than working for a famous mega-corporation.
Edit: My attitude and opinions towards job-satisfaction are obviously not overly appreciated here on HN. Watch me care :)
Some things are just down to luck.
Instead of focusing only on the "big ones", just go get your first good job elsewhere. The important part isn't which company it is, but that the job makes you happy and satisfied.
Once there take the opportunities you can and work your way up gradually. You may not end up where you thought you would or where you planned, but if you stayed focused on job-satisfaction all the way through, you'll end up somewhere you'll be happy to stay.
And that's much more important than working for a famous mega-corporation.
Edit: My attitude and opinions towards job-satisfaction are obviously not overly appreciated here on HN. Watch me care :)
Yeah, that bugs me too, why has he only applied to "big ones" companies, like they are some desirable place to work? Hah.
Apply for small to medium sized companies, and avoid "big" names.
Apply for small to medium sized companies, and avoid "big" names.
Your name, Mohamed, -1 point.
Also, you re not living in the US, EU or Japan, hence -1 point, and your CV is now not read. Next.
Sorry, but thats the way it is.
Just make an experiment, if you dont believe me, send the same CV, from Norway, by the name Peder Niklasson or something. But too bad you cant do this experiment now since its on frontpage. But try it next time.
EDIT: Since you cant really solve the "born in the wrong place" quite easily, Id suggest to look for jobs NOT at the big companies - and instead try to find startup or medium sized normal companies - they might go through the trouble of getting you a visa and work permit.
Also, you re not living in the US, EU or Japan, hence -1 point, and your CV is now not read. Next.
Sorry, but thats the way it is.
Just make an experiment, if you dont believe me, send the same CV, from Norway, by the name Peder Niklasson or something. But too bad you cant do this experiment now since its on frontpage. But try it next time.
EDIT: Since you cant really solve the "born in the wrong place" quite easily, Id suggest to look for jobs NOT at the big companies - and instead try to find startup or medium sized normal companies - they might go through the trouble of getting you a visa and work permit.
It is pretty much similar in the french-speaking EU countries - France, Belgium, Switzerland... You should either be local or a resident of the french-speaking African ex-colonies.
"Your name, Mohamed, -1 point." ... This sadly probably has something to do with some rejections. As open as the US is on immmigration, racism is still there in the professional world.
Here is my feedback:
1. The main section of your CV is filled with things that are either not that impressive compared to other things you have done or are hard to judge on. "4x speedup on Docker," how many machines? What infrastructure? I don't know anything from that sentence. In a generic case, 4x speedup is not that great. You've highlighted things like "php" and "MySQL" in bold. That makes them sound those are your biggest accomplishments, and they are easy enough for a 5th grader to learn.
2. The things that are actually amazing about you are buried so deep I suspect most reviewers aren't getting to that point. "ACM ICPC World Finalist" should much more up there. Hackathons should be higher. You have insane amount of repos on Github, a list of those should most definitely be higher.
3. Understand that you're applying for internship. What cool stuff you can do should be highlighted more than where you worked before, unless you worked at an equally competitive company.
4. Do not highlight unimpressive things like MySQL, makes you sound like you peaked.
1. The main section of your CV is filled with things that are either not that impressive compared to other things you have done or are hard to judge on. "4x speedup on Docker," how many machines? What infrastructure? I don't know anything from that sentence. In a generic case, 4x speedup is not that great. You've highlighted things like "php" and "MySQL" in bold. That makes them sound those are your biggest accomplishments, and they are easy enough for a 5th grader to learn.
2. The things that are actually amazing about you are buried so deep I suspect most reviewers aren't getting to that point. "ACM ICPC World Finalist" should much more up there. Hackathons should be higher. You have insane amount of repos on Github, a list of those should most definitely be higher.
3. Understand that you're applying for internship. What cool stuff you can do should be highlighted more than where you worked before, unless you worked at an equally competitive company.
4. Do not highlight unimpressive things like MySQL, makes you sound like you peaked.
1. Location - I've never heard of El Rehab City, but just the word "rehab" has negative connotations about one's past in the English language. If you were in the US your chances would go up, but it's really a tough process for companies to hire non-citizens.
2. GPA - It looks like there's a discrepancy on your GPA: 0.86 > 0.7.
3. Specialize - Tailor your resume for a specific job title. You may know every programming language, but that might be just extra fluff to read if the position is for a front-end developer. Keep the other info off to the side if you have to but keep it brief.
4. Layout - a recruiter from Apple once told me to put your skills right after your contact info. Education, experience, etc after that. Your resume could also use some improvements in formatting.
2. GPA - It looks like there's a discrepancy on your GPA: 0.86 > 0.7.
3. Specialize - Tailor your resume for a specific job title. You may know every programming language, but that might be just extra fluff to read if the position is for a front-end developer. Keep the other info off to the side if you have to but keep it brief.
4. Layout - a recruiter from Apple once told me to put your skills right after your contact info. Education, experience, etc after that. Your resume could also use some improvements in formatting.
Do you honestly think the name of this person's city is the reason why recruiters aren't biting?
Is it worthwhile to point out that humans have biases? When someone is looking at two similar candidates? Is it fair? Why didn't the Chevy Nova sell well in South America? No logical reason. Besides confusing things that have nothing to do with each other because of the name. But living thousands of miles away from where you want to work says to a recruiter "too hard, pick another candidate from the pool of 400,000 applicants"
I 100% agree that the recruiter would have an adverse reaction to a city name that they have a difficult time pronouncing. I disagree that a recruiter is going to look at a city named "Rehab" and think "hmm... might be a drug addict" even subliminally.
The people in charge of the world have divided it into imaginary lines to control the rest of us better. It sounds like you're in a different division than the companies you're trying to work for.
Possibly hugely cynical view here, but...
There's probably 500,000 other companies out there you could apply to that a) you'd have a better chance at getting in and b) probably need your particular skills and abilities far more than Facebook does.
Yes... working at one of those name-brand exclusive companies will no doubt be fun, exciting, helpful, etc, but... there's just something about young people just wanting to work at "top X SV companies" that bugs me, and I don't quite know what it is. Lack of perspective? Sour grapes?
Maybe as I've gotten older I've just realized that no matter how impressive a CV is, there's (almost without exception) multiple other people with CVs more impressive and accomplished than your own. Oh, and generally, CVs are generally less important than the networks you have access to.
Continue to grow your name in the communities you serve right now and opportunities will find you.
There's probably 500,000 other companies out there you could apply to that a) you'd have a better chance at getting in and b) probably need your particular skills and abilities far more than Facebook does.
Yes... working at one of those name-brand exclusive companies will no doubt be fun, exciting, helpful, etc, but... there's just something about young people just wanting to work at "top X SV companies" that bugs me, and I don't quite know what it is. Lack of perspective? Sour grapes?
Maybe as I've gotten older I've just realized that no matter how impressive a CV is, there's (almost without exception) multiple other people with CVs more impressive and accomplished than your own. Oh, and generally, CVs are generally less important than the networks you have access to.
Continue to grow your name in the communities you serve right now and opportunities will find you.
If you don't mind interning in Cape Town at a startup you've never heard of based in Sydney, Australia, building our next web-based platform and web products, pop me an email at eric@gradconnection and I'll see what I can do. If fate (and you) may have it, it's a possibility you might get to intern in Sydney, rather than in Cape Town.
Our current job ads would give you an idea of what our current stack for our next platforms and products looks like, much better than the soon-to-be-obsolete website we have online at the moment would:
https://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/84553/front-end-devel...
https://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/85966/senior-python-d...
Our current job ads would give you an idea of what our current stack for our next platforms and products looks like, much better than the soon-to-be-obsolete website we have online at the moment would:
https://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/84553/front-end-devel...
https://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/85966/senior-python-d...
I wouldn't put the blame on visa issues. Facebook, Dropbox and Microsoft (dunno about Quora) are very happy to apply for J-1 visas for interns -- every year, 50-100 students from my university (University of Warsaw) get J-1 visas and go to the US for internships. Most go to NVIDIA, Google, Facebook and Microsoft, but I also know handful of people who were at Dropbox and Palantir, and it seems that one person goes to Quora this year. Maybe with applicants from Egypt it's harder, but I wouldn't bet on that.
Your resume looks better than CVs of some of my friends who actually got jobs at the companies you mention, at least from what I can see.
It's not the cover letter either -- cover letters are not necessary for Google, Facebook, Dropbox, or NVIDIA, as far as I can tell.
My personal guess is that you just had bad luck. Try again and don't give up.
Your resume looks better than CVs of some of my friends who actually got jobs at the companies you mention, at least from what I can see.
It's not the cover letter either -- cover letters are not necessary for Google, Facebook, Dropbox, or NVIDIA, as far as I can tell.
My personal guess is that you just had bad luck. Try again and don't give up.
I'm also an Arab, from Jordan (granted, my name is not Mohamed). A lot of the answers here are on track but let me give my view and what I've seen from my friends and colleagues' experience.
While companies like Microsoft, Facebook, and Google are usually fine with sponsoring students for J1 or H1B visas, it makes a huge different whether the student is applying from within the US or not. Students from all nationalities who study in a US university will have a much easier time getting a summer internship at these companies.
Part of it is that the paperwork is easier: an international student with an F1 visa studying at a known American university can simply apply for a CPT (Curricular Practical Training) authorization and be allowed to work. Even before that, it is much easier to meet the candidate in person and decide if they are worthy of an offer: you can simply conduct campus interviews or fly them over in a (cheaper) domestic flight.
Simply put, the cost of interviewing an international student outside the US is high enough, that often times it isn't worth the cost to find out if a candidate is worth it.
Looking at other students from the Middle East graduating from my school, I see a similar trend: Those applying for internships and full-time jobs while still in the US as students will get interviews and offers, while those who were in the US and went back home have much more trouble returning.
While companies like Microsoft, Facebook, and Google are usually fine with sponsoring students for J1 or H1B visas, it makes a huge different whether the student is applying from within the US or not. Students from all nationalities who study in a US university will have a much easier time getting a summer internship at these companies.
Part of it is that the paperwork is easier: an international student with an F1 visa studying at a known American university can simply apply for a CPT (Curricular Practical Training) authorization and be allowed to work. Even before that, it is much easier to meet the candidate in person and decide if they are worthy of an offer: you can simply conduct campus interviews or fly them over in a (cheaper) domestic flight.
Simply put, the cost of interviewing an international student outside the US is high enough, that often times it isn't worth the cost to find out if a candidate is worth it.
Looking at other students from the Middle East graduating from my school, I see a similar trend: Those applying for internships and full-time jobs while still in the US as students will get interviews and offers, while those who were in the US and went back home have much more trouble returning.
As others have said, you're most likely being rejected because hiring interns from Egypt is a hassle rather than any perceived deficiency in your ability, but I'd still recommend you put achievements and awards near the top... it marks you out as a top student far more than a GPA the recruiter doesn't understand from an institution they haven't heard of.
I think the comments about applying abroad are probably right. Certainly try to apply to German companies, they are usually eager to get skilled people and the fact that you worked there already helps (instacredit as "don't have to worry about background checks and the like" for the pencil pushers)
Some random other thought:
1) There's no available source code to check that I can see. A link to github would help, maybe write some code specifically for that if you haven't done so.*
2) I'd stress the competitive coding a bit more. That probably means you have some algorithms/data structures chops, those are usually worth a lot on a CV. I'd have a seperate entry in skills for that.
3) Maybe rearange the skills by buzzyness (I'm assuming it's roughly by skill level now)
;) Maybe it just landed on Emacs users' desks
*Edit: Oh wow you have a pretty nice github repo. Def feature it more prominently.
Some random other thought:
1) There's no available source code to check that I can see. A link to github would help, maybe write some code specifically for that if you haven't done so.*
2) I'd stress the competitive coding a bit more. That probably means you have some algorithms/data structures chops, those are usually worth a lot on a CV. I'd have a seperate entry in skills for that.
3) Maybe rearange the skills by buzzyness (I'm assuming it's roughly by skill level now)
;) Maybe it just landed on Emacs users' desks
*Edit: Oh wow you have a pretty nice github repo. Def feature it more prominently.
While I agree with others that your name and where you live are not doing you any favors, you have also attempted to start at the very top with the most prestigious internships. Many people would be rejected doing that, even if they were American and went to top US schools. Try a tier lower, and a tier lower than that. And then work your way up to the Facebook's and Dropbox's of the World, once you have some American companies on your resume.
I guess as people mentioned in the comments here. Lower tier companies in US will be more likely not able to sponsor a visa for a foreigner student.
[deleted]
i got interview with google and Facebook and rejection after technical interview in google and HR interview in Facebook, my resume is accepted in Microsoft and currently i'm in the process, i think your resume is very cool but you sorted it's content in a wrong order i thought, form my point of view i think the people whose scan your resume want to see ONLY 2 things.
1- are you smart? 2- could you write codes?
then you have to answer this question in your resume very quickly.
i think you have to push the competitive programming part up in your resume to answer the first question early, and so on..
please see this video for more tips. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wa9J7iXOh0]
1- are you smart? 2- could you write codes?
then you have to answer this question in your resume very quickly.
i think you have to push the competitive programming part up in your resume to answer the first question early, and so on..
please see this video for more tips. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wa9J7iXOh0]
My best guesses are:
1- The GPA, I actually didn't understand what it meant?! Most people are used to the 4.0 scale and also it's pretty strange that you can actually get more points than the maximum! 0.86 out of 0.7!
2- I guess there should be more elaboration on your problem solving skills and why they should hire you.
Regarding the other "naive" things that others had mentioned about being Egyptian or your name and so on. This is surely NONSENSE and there are tons of counterexamples to this claim. Many Egyptian students whose names are Ahmed, Mohammed and even Islam made it to not only one but to many companies in the US!
1- The GPA, I actually didn't understand what it meant?! Most people are used to the 4.0 scale and also it's pretty strange that you can actually get more points than the maximum! 0.86 out of 0.7!
2- I guess there should be more elaboration on your problem solving skills and why they should hire you.
Regarding the other "naive" things that others had mentioned about being Egyptian or your name and so on. This is surely NONSENSE and there are tons of counterexamples to this claim. Many Egyptian students whose names are Ahmed, Mohammed and even Islam made it to not only one but to many companies in the US!
I've went through the same thing as OP. I'm a student located out of the US that applied for internships at all major companies in the US (Microsoft, Facebook, Google, Apple, Palantir, etc) for summer last year. I really have to disagree with people mentioning cover letters or costs to bring international students. I didn't submit any cover letter and got accepted for two of those companies for an internship in the US and accepted an internship with one of them.
Google for example really doesn't care about cover letters. This used to be at Google's Job FAQ: "Cover letters are optional, and applications with them are not preferred over those without. We recommend using a cover letter only to bring up anything that would not be evident from the rest of your application. It can also be an opportunity to let Google know about you as an individual, in addition to why you're a good fit for the organization. We strongly recommend using your resume to represent your candidacy." http://www.google.com/intl/cn/jobs/students/sga/mba/internsh...
By a Google Screener: "As a heavy interviewer and occasional resume screener at Google, I rarely look at the cover letter. Your resume should give me enough context for whether you have the key experience for the role." http://www.quora.com/How-should-a-cover-letter-for-Google-lo...
I've noticed you've probably studied a lot already on how a resume look like, I can see you're using Gayle's template for CVs and I did the same thing. Your CV is pretty good and better than mine, it should definitely be attractive to recruiters because of your awards (ACM ICPC 2015 World Finalist) and your previous experience (multiple internships).
Here's the thing, the hard part is getting a recruiter to actually read your CV. Coincidentally or not, only the companies to which I was referred by full timers actually bothered to interview me. I have the impression the strength of the referral also makes a huge difference. For one of the companies my referral was from another intern and I didn't get an interview. Was your referral from an FTE or another intern?
The one difference I can pinpoint between us is that you're applying from the middle east and I applied from Europe. I'm really not sure how much of a difference this makes, but I can tell you that I did not see many foreigners from that region during my internship last year. I'm not sure this should actually make a difference, because my visa situation wasn't quite simple either and the company didn't seem to have any issue with the fact I'm from south america and applied for a J1 visa while living abroad in Europe. My guess would be your CV isn't getting read and to try to get stronger referrals.
Google for example really doesn't care about cover letters. This used to be at Google's Job FAQ: "Cover letters are optional, and applications with them are not preferred over those without. We recommend using a cover letter only to bring up anything that would not be evident from the rest of your application. It can also be an opportunity to let Google know about you as an individual, in addition to why you're a good fit for the organization. We strongly recommend using your resume to represent your candidacy." http://www.google.com/intl/cn/jobs/students/sga/mba/internsh...
By a Google Screener: "As a heavy interviewer and occasional resume screener at Google, I rarely look at the cover letter. Your resume should give me enough context for whether you have the key experience for the role." http://www.quora.com/How-should-a-cover-letter-for-Google-lo...
I've noticed you've probably studied a lot already on how a resume look like, I can see you're using Gayle's template for CVs and I did the same thing. Your CV is pretty good and better than mine, it should definitely be attractive to recruiters because of your awards (ACM ICPC 2015 World Finalist) and your previous experience (multiple internships).
Here's the thing, the hard part is getting a recruiter to actually read your CV. Coincidentally or not, only the companies to which I was referred by full timers actually bothered to interview me. I have the impression the strength of the referral also makes a huge difference. For one of the companies my referral was from another intern and I didn't get an interview. Was your referral from an FTE or another intern?
The one difference I can pinpoint between us is that you're applying from the middle east and I applied from Europe. I'm really not sure how much of a difference this makes, but I can tell you that I did not see many foreigners from that region during my internship last year. I'm not sure this should actually make a difference, because my visa situation wasn't quite simple either and the company didn't seem to have any issue with the fact I'm from south america and applied for a J1 visa while living abroad in Europe. My guess would be your CV isn't getting read and to try to get stronger referrals.
Makes a big difference. Applying for work visas for someone from the EU is totally different than applying for a work visa for someone from the middle east.
I'm not an EU citizen. I doubt top tech companies would reject a candidate just because it's more visa work. They usually have an entire immigration department just for handling these cases.
I think you need something tangible. There is lots of cool sounding things here but no links, github profile or code samples. To me, that is a big issue. You say you have the experience, now show them.
It's no use. I'm from Russia and I've been trying to get hired by a foreign company for 6 months, but I can only count the number of interviews I got on one hand, and those were mostly non-tech. It's not anyone's fault, we've just been born in the wrong place at the wrong time. The only consolation is that there are lots, lots of people who are even worse off than us.
If you rely on someone else for your success, this is what you will get. Then it will be no use. Instead, ask yourself "How can I help a lot of people with what I know how to do?" Then go do it, and create jobs for other talented people who you see that are overlooked. You don't have to be in America or Silicon Valley to succeed. It comes from inside your heart. Find that which makes you want to succeed the most.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnCaL8iul50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnCaL8iul50
[deleted]
in your situation it could be effected by the current relations between Russia and the west. getting a visa for a rusky in a NATO country might be tricky right now... approving visa or disapproving them is something these countries do to screw with each other at times of disagreement.
There are Russian tech companies, why do you not apply at those?
There are Russian tech companies, why do you not apply at those?
Look, the harsh reality is that you're largely an unproven entity with no pedigree. Your ACM achievements are impressive, but they're being weighed against the fact that, outside of that, you're a relative unknown. It's also possible that people aren't even noticing your competitive coding stuff because it's pretty far down and not emphasized.
Also, if you just applied now, it may very well be too late for the big companies. They do their recruiting push for internships in the fall. By January, most internships are filled.
Ultimately, due to timing and due to lack of credentialing, you're at a huge disadvantage, so you have to do EVERYTHING YOU CAN to stand out. Here are some suggestions.
Your TopCoder rating is pretty good, but I'd have no way of knowing that without clicking on it, which people NEVER do. Make it easy. List your rating and translate it into a percentile.
Your projects sound boring and uninspired. Explain what you built and focus less on the tooling you used. Link to the actual projects on GitHub. Make sure you're listing stuff you built yourself rather than stuff you did in class. Provide GitHub links for the individual projects you list. No one is going to wade through your GitHub and figure out where the gems are.
Lastly, your bullet points about what you worked on are completely uninspired. I have no idea what you did at any of your internships beyond what tooling you used. Explain your contributions in plain English in the context of the project you worked on.
Also, if you just applied now, it may very well be too late for the big companies. They do their recruiting push for internships in the fall. By January, most internships are filled.
Ultimately, due to timing and due to lack of credentialing, you're at a huge disadvantage, so you have to do EVERYTHING YOU CAN to stand out. Here are some suggestions.
Your TopCoder rating is pretty good, but I'd have no way of knowing that without clicking on it, which people NEVER do. Make it easy. List your rating and translate it into a percentile.
Your projects sound boring and uninspired. Explain what you built and focus less on the tooling you used. Link to the actual projects on GitHub. Make sure you're listing stuff you built yourself rather than stuff you did in class. Provide GitHub links for the individual projects you list. No one is going to wade through your GitHub and figure out where the gems are.
Lastly, your bullet points about what you worked on are completely uninspired. I have no idea what you did at any of your internships beyond what tooling you used. Explain your contributions in plain English in the context of the project you worked on.