Chile Wants Your Poor, Your Huddled Masses, Your Tech Entrepreneurs(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
Chile Wants Your Poor, Your Huddled Masses, Your Tech Entrepreneurs
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/10/10/chile-wants-your-poor-your-huddled-masses-your-tech-entrepreneurs/
41 comments
I know for a fact it is not easy for Americans to immigrate into Brazil. I have a few American friends who've tried and failed... Brazilians call it reciprocity.
Well, we started fingerprinting them on entry to the US, and Brasil said "OK, we'll go tit for tat". If you fly to Brasil you will find one set of rules at Customs for Americans, and another for everyone else. That's just payback. The fact remains that for the vast majority of global citizens, getting into Brasil is far less painless than getting into, say, the UK or the United States.
I agree, but I'd say in Chile is about the same for everybody though (pretty easy).
For example, my business partner is Colombian, he's been living here for 5 years now with no problems at all. First he had a Visa subject to work contract, but then when we decided to start our company he only had to go change his Visa status and apply for residence. Bear in mind Colombians don't have such a good reputation, in fact in Chile they are the only ones who have to present a Colombian police report of themselves together with their Visa application :S
For example, my business partner is Colombian, he's been living here for 5 years now with no problems at all. First he had a Visa subject to work contract, but then when we decided to start our company he only had to go change his Visa status and apply for residence. Bear in mind Colombians don't have such a good reputation, in fact in Chile they are the only ones who have to present a Colombian police report of themselves together with their Visa application :S
Would love to hear more about living and working in Chile. Are you chilean? How hard is it to find smart people? Is there a local startup scene? Is all of this government propaganda or is there really a thriving culture of risk-taking and entrepreneurship? What about VCs?
I am chilean, but just so you know a bit of my background, I went to Berkeley and worked in San Jose at a company in the semiconductors industry.
There is a very good startup community here, there are regular events like First Tuesday and DELM.
It is not hard to find smart and capable people, in fact a few Americans have scolded me for stating the opposite in the past. There's a lot of potential here, checkout bligoo.com, needish.com, betazeta.com, voxound.com, to name a few.
Hvng trbl rplng on my cell
There is a very good startup community here, there are regular events like First Tuesday and DELM.
It is not hard to find smart and capable people, in fact a few Americans have scolded me for stating the opposite in the past. There's a lot of potential here, checkout bligoo.com, needish.com, betazeta.com, voxound.com, to name a few.
Hvng trbl rplng on my cell
Sorry, trouble with my bb.
The goverment is very serious about all of this and it is putting a lot of money and effort into it. They are also putting good incentives for local startups.
The biggest con about Chile is the small and underdeveloped VC scene, but in spite of this, there's a good private investors scene, albeit not as accessible. The chilean goverment is also backing VCs by actually giving them money to invest.
I think you should seriously consider it.
More info? Check my profile.
The goverment is very serious about all of this and it is putting a lot of money and effort into it. They are also putting good incentives for local startups.
The biggest con about Chile is the small and underdeveloped VC scene, but in spite of this, there's a good private investors scene, albeit not as accessible. The chilean goverment is also backing VCs by actually giving them money to invest.
I think you should seriously consider it.
More info? Check my profile.
[deleted]
Not to defend the US's policy towards travellers, but this makes no sense. Brazil needs visitors and investors far more than the US does, so by engaging in a little tit-for-tat it does nothing but hurt itself unnecessarily.
You should have read further...there are also easy to get visas for tech workers.
And you should have read more than the article.
The visa they give tech workers is the same one they have always given tech workers. There is nothing new there. Crucially, they can kick you out of the country whenever they please, which is usually when you are laid off. In Brasil you would have time to look for alternate employment, and a better chance of finding it.
Also, the job has to be pre-existing. What I mean is that, they want the foreign investment first, then they will allow in immigrants. As opposed to allowing in immigrants to start businesses, thereby attracting foreign investment. This was the model that early immigration to the United States operated under. Not that everyone should do things our way. Heck we don't even do it our way anymore. Just pointing out that this is not a program for increased immigration. The visa rules are the same, UNLESS you are an investor.
The visa they give tech workers is the same one they have always given tech workers. There is nothing new there. Crucially, they can kick you out of the country whenever they please, which is usually when you are laid off. In Brasil you would have time to look for alternate employment, and a better chance of finding it.
Also, the job has to be pre-existing. What I mean is that, they want the foreign investment first, then they will allow in immigrants. As opposed to allowing in immigrants to start businesses, thereby attracting foreign investment. This was the model that early immigration to the United States operated under. Not that everyone should do things our way. Heck we don't even do it our way anymore. Just pointing out that this is not a program for increased immigration. The visa rules are the same, UNLESS you are an investor.
Crucially, they can kick you out of the country whenever they please, which is usually when you are laid off. In Brasil you would have time to look for alternate employment, and a better chance of finding it.
They could (just like in the US), but they don't. Check my comment about my Colombian partner above. He also switched jobs several times before, with a couple months in between, before we met and started our company.
What's the point in putting Brasil above Chile anyway? Maybe Brasil is a great country to go start a company, I wouldn't know. But the article, and this thread, are about Chile and the conditions the country has created (on purpose or not) for high tech companies.
They could (just like in the US), but they don't. Check my comment about my Colombian partner above. He also switched jobs several times before, with a couple months in between, before we met and started our company.
What's the point in putting Brasil above Chile anyway? Maybe Brasil is a great country to go start a company, I wouldn't know. But the article, and this thread, are about Chile and the conditions the country has created (on purpose or not) for high tech companies.
My only point was that the article is presenting a program for increasing foreign investment, as though it were a program for increasing immigration.
The title is, "Chile Wants Your Poor, Your Huddled Masses..."
With such a title it appeared to me that the article was about immigration as well. This title invited me to research the issue. What I found was a program to increase foreign investment, which I admitted was laudable. What I did not find was a program to increase immigration, and intellectual honesty demands that we point out this inconsistency in the article.
Brasil was simply a convenient 'case in point' of what a reasonable immigration system would look like. Though I think the Brasilians could go further as well. As could our own country.
The title is, "Chile Wants Your Poor, Your Huddled Masses..."
With such a title it appeared to me that the article was about immigration as well. This title invited me to research the issue. What I found was a program to increase foreign investment, which I admitted was laudable. What I did not find was a program to increase immigration, and intellectual honesty demands that we point out this inconsistency in the article.
Brasil was simply a convenient 'case in point' of what a reasonable immigration system would look like. Though I think the Brasilians could go further as well. As could our own country.
Your comment, while interesting in other respects, easily misleads someone to think that there isn't an immigration element available, which there clearly is.
Okay, so it's not Brazil: "Imma let you finish, but Brazil has the best visa program of all time". Heheh.
Okay, so it's not Brazil: "Imma let you finish, but Brazil has the best visa program of all time". Heheh.
Man, you made my day with that last comment!! I almost pissed my pants, hahaha.
[deleted]
Chile and Brazil have been on my radar for a little over 11 months now. Brazil definitely seems to have the most exciting long term potential, with it's large oil reserves and it's willingness to actually exploit them, it should do very well as inflation kicks in from western government money printing. I have not crossed Brazil off my list by any means.
However, Chile just seems to fit me better. I already have a little Spanish, but no Portuguese. More importantly, though, I'm a mountain guy, not a jungle guy. The scenery in Chile is comforting to a Rocky Mountain native.
Now ... I just have to convince the wife!
However, Chile just seems to fit me better. I already have a little Spanish, but no Portuguese. More importantly, though, I'm a mountain guy, not a jungle guy. The scenery in Chile is comforting to a Rocky Mountain native.
Now ... I just have to convince the wife!
Argentina is cheaper and has the other side of those mountains ;) (Where I live right now)
If you look for a local job, perhaps Chile is a better option. But if you want low taxes for personal work and have foreign customers (web entrepreneur), Argentina beats Chile hands down. There's a system called Monotributo where tax is trivial and ridiculously low if your income is up to USD 52k/yr (very good money if you live outside Buenos Aires.)
Oh, and Argentina's system of immigration is one of the most welcoming. "Nearly a million permanent residency applications were filed from 2000 to 2008."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Argentina#Legal_...
My advice, stay out of the bigger cities and go to trendy small villages, cheaper and safe. Return flight tickets to Buenos Aires usually are around USD 130 from almost anywhere.
Also, it's better if you can travel a bit around until you find the best place in South America. In Argentina, 3G broadband costs about USD 45/mo (or less) and you can use it in many places until you settle.
EDIT: The USD 52k/yr afaik is for each of you, and the taxes and things you pay also can pay part of the private health insurance of your choice.
If you look for a local job, perhaps Chile is a better option. But if you want low taxes for personal work and have foreign customers (web entrepreneur), Argentina beats Chile hands down. There's a system called Monotributo where tax is trivial and ridiculously low if your income is up to USD 52k/yr (very good money if you live outside Buenos Aires.)
Oh, and Argentina's system of immigration is one of the most welcoming. "Nearly a million permanent residency applications were filed from 2000 to 2008."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Argentina#Legal_...
My advice, stay out of the bigger cities and go to trendy small villages, cheaper and safe. Return flight tickets to Buenos Aires usually are around USD 130 from almost anywhere.
Also, it's better if you can travel a bit around until you find the best place in South America. In Argentina, 3G broadband costs about USD 45/mo (or less) and you can use it in many places until you settle.
EDIT: The USD 52k/yr afaik is for each of you, and the taxes and things you pay also can pay part of the private health insurance of your choice.
A friend of mine lives in Argentina. It just hasn't captured my imagination like Chile. Maybe I like the ocean too much. Maybe I'm too gun shy after it's economic troubles. But I should visit him and get a better feel for it before writing it off.
> More importantly, though, I'm a mountain guy, not a jungle guy.
Were you just trying to show how ignorant you are? Anyone going to Brazil would be going to Southeast/South of Brazil, far from "the jungle". Another option for tech people is in Recife (State of Pernambuco), in the Northeast and close to the beach.
Anyway, please let's stop with silly stereotypes. Saying that we are mostly "jungle guys" is no different than saying than Americans are about corn.
Were you just trying to show how ignorant you are? Anyone going to Brazil would be going to Southeast/South of Brazil, far from "the jungle". Another option for tech people is in Recife (State of Pernambuco), in the Northeast and close to the beach.
Anyway, please let's stop with silly stereotypes. Saying that we are mostly "jungle guys" is no different than saying than Americans are about corn.
If anybody is looking into this, and might be interested in a "man on the ground", let me know. My step-brother has lived in Chile for the past 10 years, running a non-profit. He has a Chilean wife and is 100% fluent in the language and culture.
I'm sure he'd be open to consulting with a tech company as an interpreter, etc.
I'm sure he'd be open to consulting with a tech company as an interpreter, etc.
Chile is a country for cutting costs. That's true. But nothing more.
It is not a good country for startups. Tech and software industry is supine because there are not hackers not even great programmers. It's hard to find a programmer developing software outside the office. So even though is a great place to be frugal the lack of an entrepreneurial network and advice is going to set you apart.
And Viña del Mar is a great place but Pucón is the best with a lake, a river and a volcano.
It is not a good country for startups. Tech and software industry is supine because there are not hackers not even great programmers. It's hard to find a programmer developing software outside the office. So even though is a great place to be frugal the lack of an entrepreneurial network and advice is going to set you apart.
And Viña del Mar is a great place but Pucón is the best with a lake, a river and a volcano.
Hey, I take offense to that! I agree that Chile isn't exactly a tech hub, but don't generalize.
Hackers and great programmers do exist here. It may just be harder to find them. Ironically, a place like hacker news helps with that ;)
Hackers and great programmers do exist here. It may just be harder to find them. Ironically, a place like hacker news helps with that ;)
I stand with algorias here. I thought the same as you, but after talking to a lot of people in high-tech and IT not only here but in the US, I know there's absolutely no lack of talent or skills here in Chile.
Check this out: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=773581
Check this out: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=773581
Working in Spain, I know of some companies which outsource to Chile's neighbor Argentina, where labor wages are comparatively cheaper.
I think this will get more common in the future, and in time more and more companies in Spain ill be hiring labor in Southamerica, as the english speaking companies are doing with India.
Considering the poor incentives Spain is giving to entrepreneurship, I can only hope my own country will look at chile's example and help our punished IT industry.
I think this will get more common in the future, and in time more and more companies in Spain ill be hiring labor in Southamerica, as the english speaking companies are doing with India.
Considering the poor incentives Spain is giving to entrepreneurship, I can only hope my own country will look at chile's example and help our punished IT industry.
I'd be up for a trip to check it out in January.
Anyone interested in doing a two week trip?
Anyone interested in doing a two week trip?
Chile seems like a great place to live while working on a foreign startup (located in another, zero-tax jurisdiction). As a non-citizen tourist in the country, you'd pay no income tax locally. I'd far prefer to live in Chile than the zero-tax places (UAE, Panama, etc.) Of course, a totally virtualized business could be run from basically anywhere on the same terms.
I'd certainly like to visit Chile at some point. It has a wide range of landscapes and in general looks like an interesting place.
The corporate tax in Chile is higher than in the US if you don't keep the money there. That could be a dealbreaker for some.
How much is corporate tax in the US? in Chile it's 17%
15-40% (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_tax_in_the_United_Sta...), plus state taxes as applicable.
Looks like it's lower in Chile then (17% flat).
http://www.investchile.com/corfo_det_20080714144946.aspx
It is 17% but...
"An additional tax of 18% is levied if companies distribute or remit earnings."
It is 17% but...
"An additional tax of 18% is levied if companies distribute or remit earnings."
[deleted]
amazing, thanks for this information :)
Being a native Spanish speaker, I am glad that at last one of the Spanish speaking countries is starting to take the lead for growth. FINALLY
seems like a very good deal to me if your willing to move and learn a new language. After reading the article Chile is really giving allot of good incentives for people to move and start companies. One thing that worries me is that with these incentives seems like their will be allot of wasteful spending and failed ventures.
I'm so happy about this news! sorry, but I can't help expressing my feelings here. I'm really proud, and I hope I can help on this Chilean "mission".
Taking advantage of this comment: I'm going to startup school and also to Traweln (http://www.traweln.org/), my contact info is in my profile.
Taking advantage of this comment: I'm going to startup school and also to Traweln (http://www.traweln.org/), my contact info is in my profile.
at the same time you have to
"invest $500,000 over 5 years..."
This is NOT an immigration program. It is a foreign investment program. One modeled after the program that China used to lift hundreds of millions, and counting, out of poverty. So it is to be lauded. At the same time, all Chile will get out of the program is foreign investment. Without the fundamental human capital advantages that China has, it will not become a powerhouse. This is the point that many governments misinterpret. The goal of immigration is, in layman's terms, to IMPORT MORE resources. The goal of foreign investment is, in layman's terms, to provide easy access to EXISTING resources.
This is the reason that the global powers are betting on Brasil. It has the most lax immigration program in South America. It has an EXISTING base of companies for those immigrants to work in. And, the obvious, nothing attracts human capital like naked, bronze women dancing on beaches with drums.