The Founder Visa Ignores Immigration Reality(kirkwylie.blogspot.com)
kirkwylie.blogspot.com
The Founder Visa Ignores Immigration Reality
http://kirkwylie.blogspot.com/2009/09/founder-visa-ignores-immigration.html
7 comments
He's right, immigration is insane. My wife is British, one in several million smart, highly educated, and she could barely scrape in.
You should join her and move back here to blighty. I can say that we've now got a pretty vibrant tech scene here in London and have sources of investment lined up and ready to go.
What is the closest thing the London start-up scene has to Hacker News?
I feel there is little point in hanging out here as long as it is effectively American only (YC, not the boards).
I feel there is little point in hanging out here as long as it is effectively American only (YC, not the boards).
Seriously? Was that a joke?
Hacker News is largely American because it's an outgrowth of YC, which is American Only.
I would hardly think having a website portray a particular provincial bias would be a reason to live somewhere.
Seriously, though, we Brits just hang out wherever the interesting conversations are. That's the beauty of teh interwebz: nobody knows you're not a Yank (until you go off and spell something with an s or an extra u or something silly).
Hacker News is largely American because it's an outgrowth of YC, which is American Only.
I would hardly think having a website portray a particular provincial bias would be a reason to live somewhere.
Seriously, though, we Brits just hang out wherever the interesting conversations are. That's the beauty of teh interwebz: nobody knows you're not a Yank (until you go off and spell something with an s or an extra u or something silly).
I don't think he was talking about living (or not living) somewhere based on HN but was looking for a more london focused online startup community.
We all know each other and mostly hang out on twitter to be honest. Try me (@kirkwy), @monkchips, @monadic, @cpswan, @codepope, @leastfixedpoint, ...
Seriously, though, I've not really noticed not being back in a local "tech cluster" on a day-to-day basis these days (except that when I meet people that aren't in the industry they have NO idea what I do; in the valley, everybody has some clue). Mostly we like to know who each other are so we can all drink together. Tech social functions, like ALL social functions here, involve much beer.
Seriously, though, I've not really noticed not being back in a local "tech cluster" on a day-to-day basis these days (except that when I meet people that aren't in the industry they have NO idea what I do; in the valley, everybody has some clue). Mostly we like to know who each other are so we can all drink together. Tech social functions, like ALL social functions here, involve much beer.
Right on. I consider myself a citizen of the United States of Internet. I'm in Britain but know barely the last thing about the "scene" here - it's all in the US and it's easy to access online (or on trips).
Why was it hard to get your wife in? I thought it was easy to get spouses in.
It's easy in the sense that it's more or less a sure thing. It's not easy in the sense that you still have to go through a lot of paperwork and bureaucracy, and even have to go in for a doctor to poke you and prod you to see if you're fit to live in the US. Nothing like being treated like livestock to make you feel welcome.
It was way easier for me to deal with the Italian bureaucracy once we were married than it would be for my wife to go to the US. And that's saying something: Italian bureaucracy is about as bad as the stereotypes make it out to be.
It was way easier for me to deal with the Italian bureaucracy once we were married than it would be for my wife to go to the US. And that's saying something: Italian bureaucracy is about as bad as the stereotypes make it out to be.
> I thought it was easy to get spouses in.
Something else:
The Fed Govt. doesn't recognize same-sex spouses (e.g. if you're married in Canada, South Africa, etc.). This is due to DOMA. There is currently legislation under way to try change this (UAFA).
Many other countries do recognize foreign same-sex marriages for immigration purposes, even if they themselves don't recognize same-sex marriage.
Something else:
The Fed Govt. doesn't recognize same-sex spouses (e.g. if you're married in Canada, South Africa, etc.). This is due to DOMA. There is currently legislation under way to try change this (UAFA).
Many other countries do recognize foreign same-sex marriages for immigration purposes, even if they themselves don't recognize same-sex marriage.
Married spouses at least (other spouses aren't accepted) but you're assuming the parent had a visa himself (well assuming the parent is male as lesbian couples aren't recognised either) and that the particular visa he had was one of the visas that grant a spouse rights.
I thought one's spouse is one's husband / wife, and one's husband / wife is married to you, by definition.
Yeah I think you're typically right. I guess I interchange partner with spouse in my mind because of the whole recognition of de facto couples here in Australia and the whole civil union bit.
Thanks, I didn't know about de facto couples.
What country does better?
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=835559
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=835559
Further, he's right that with a broken system, adding one more Rube Goldberg attachment won't help.
>one in several million smart, highly educated
Then she qualifies for EB-1 or 2 permanent residence.
Then she qualifies for EB-1 or 2 permanent residence.
Three cheers to Kirk for pointing out the particularly demeaning way in which gay people are treated for the purposes of immigration. Everybody knows that marriage is viewed as the "easier" way of getting into the US: find somebody who likes you enough to marry you for two years, then you can divorce and you can keep the green card. But if you're gay? Get to the back of the line.
Hopefully DOMA will get overturned and/or UAFA passed in the current session.
The U.S. immigration is definitely insane. I know people that have been waiting for ten or more years. It almost doesn't matter what qualifications you have.
I'm currently working in the US on a TN visa. I like it here, and if given the chance I'd probably stay. But the odds of me being able to do that, without jumping through large number of inhumane hoops like a circus animal, are low.
Odds are I will be moving back to ole Canada at some point. The US is so busy being afraid of everyone else that they're very, very quickly driving themselves into irrelevance.
Odds are I will be moving back to ole Canada at some point. The US is so busy being afraid of everyone else that they're very, very quickly driving themselves into irrelevance.
Canada is a great country too. I'm sure that if you asked many people who have jumped through all the hoops like a circus animal to stay in the US that a significant percentage of them would tell you that it just wasn't worth it in the end.
I'm not even sure why qualifications are the benchmark for some of these visas. As it stands you need either a bachelor's degree or 10 years working experience to justify as qualified for most visas I've seen.
Better option would simply be the "write us a big fat check" visa. Presumably, the only people who would be willing to pay, say, $50,000 over the course of five years would be those who can make enough to make it worthwhile. It would also get rid of the perverse incentives related to having to stay with the employer you got the H1-B from.
Don't underestimate the willingness of third world families to send their children to the US under this "fat check visa" scheme, regardless of whether they would have any source of guaranteed income.
Currently Africans are commonly paying over 10,000 euros for an illegal trip to an undetermined European country. The families raise the money for young men even though there's no guarantee whether the kid will end up in Norway or Italy (and often no further than Morocco). Compared to this, a five-year US visa for $50k would be an extremely attractive option. I doubt that desperate young men whose families are hopelessly in debt are the kind of immigrants that the US would want to specifically attract.
Currently Africans are commonly paying over 10,000 euros for an illegal trip to an undetermined European country. The families raise the money for young men even though there's no guarantee whether the kid will end up in Norway or Italy (and often no further than Morocco). Compared to this, a five-year US visa for $50k would be an extremely attractive option. I doubt that desperate young men whose families are hopelessly in debt are the kind of immigrants that the US would want to specifically attract.
Agreed. Which is why skill based immigration has to be a huge component. Canada does this exceptionally well.
They have one. It involves a $1MM investment and no employment options (you have to "invest" it and can't work for the firm(s) in which you "invest").
This is a terrible idea. We already have people borrowing money in huge sums to get themselves smuggled into first-world countries, then becoming indentured slaves in perpetuity to pay it off.
No one should ever be able to buy their way into a country with raw cash. Skilled immigration policies that aren't stupid (i.e. H-1B is the dumbest "immigration" policy I've ever seen) are a much better idea.
No one should ever be able to buy their way into a country with raw cash. Skilled immigration policies that aren't stupid (i.e. H-1B is the dumbest "immigration" policy I've ever seen) are a much better idea.
> No one should ever be able to buy their way into a country with raw cash.
Then you, too, support reform of the existing US immigration laws (see Kirk's comment above -- investing $1m will get you in).
Then you, too, support reform of the existing US immigration laws (see Kirk's comment above -- investing $1m will get you in).
I do support reform - but I may be convinced that $1M can buy immigration. The main thing I objected to in OP's idea was the extreme possibility (nay, certainty) that a low-amount ($200K and less I say) would result in legitimized human trafficking - people who "immigrate" and then are practically owned by those who paid for their way in. You raise this bar high enough and the possibility disappears.
That being said, the whole idea still sounds sort of sketchy to me. The US (like all industrialized nations) doesn't really need capital - not $1M at a time anyways. What it needs is skilled labour - things that will help the country compete internationally. IMHO skilled labour really ought to be the only form of immigration.
That being said, the whole idea still sounds sort of sketchy to me. The US (like all industrialized nations) doesn't really need capital - not $1M at a time anyways. What it needs is skilled labour - things that will help the country compete internationally. IMHO skilled labour really ought to be the only form of immigration.
The modern form of indentured servitude seems to be mostly involving illegal immigrants or guest worker type programs that tie a worker to a specific employer. I could be wrong, I'd appreciate any references for a legal immigration system along the lines I suggested that has caused problems (I may be asking in vain -- it may never have been tried).
The tax structure in the US is progressive. If we accepted unlimited immigrants we would end up with many low skilled workers coming here. Regardless of whether this is desirable (I think there's moral arguments to be made in its favor), it's politically impossible.
Placing a bar that involves a fix fee per year, if the issues related to being enslaved could be avoid, would attract exactly who we want -- those who would do so much better in a developed country that it's worth while.
I see it as if you were born in the US, you were freely given this thing, the right to live in the US, that is very valuable on a world market. Why not allow others to buy that same thing?
The tax structure in the US is progressive. If we accepted unlimited immigrants we would end up with many low skilled workers coming here. Regardless of whether this is desirable (I think there's moral arguments to be made in its favor), it's politically impossible.
Placing a bar that involves a fix fee per year, if the issues related to being enslaved could be avoid, would attract exactly who we want -- those who would do so much better in a developed country that it's worth while.
I see it as if you were born in the US, you were freely given this thing, the right to live in the US, that is very valuable on a world market. Why not allow others to buy that same thing?
Canada has an entrepreneur and investor visa classes, where you basically start/buy a business for $x for y amount of time, or invest x amount of dollars (a house purchase, whatever) and get a permanent residency after a few years, which then leads to a citizenship. You don't really see problems from that.
> ...if his firm decided to let him go for whatever reason, he had two weeks to leave the country forever.
I love EU. It got something right.
I love EU. It got something right.
FWIW, this isn't an EU thing, it's a national thing. Immigration from outside the EU is 100% left to the member states, and it's why I can't work in the rest of the EU until I get off my arse and apply for my British citizenship: member states have complete control over their visas and citizenship. It's just that once you have citizenship in any EU state, you're allowed to live and work in any other without any discrimination based on your nationality (assuming you're not from one of the New States of course).
I love that the UK has same-sex immigration rights, and had them before much of the rest of the EU. Now they're common-place, but when the UK did it, it was pretty new and special.
I love that the UK has same-sex immigration rights, and had them before much of the rest of the EU. Now they're common-place, but when the UK did it, it was pretty new and special.
What I meant was, within EU the notion of having two weeks to pack your bags is already absurd. This, I think, is what should be fought against, not specific immigration rights. What is needed now is to enlarge this space with countries like US, Japan or Australia, and slowly with the whole world.
Im planning to move back to Bangalore to my roots. Anyone have an idea what the tech scene in Bangalore is ?