Can I design for startups?
16 comments
At the risk of getting flamed to a nice crisp: I really don't like this posting.
it is:
- anonymous
- contains details that are none of our business, and which seem to be put there in order to sway a potential taker to hire you out of pity
- makes a bunch of claims but does not back those up
- asks for work but does not have any contact information
it is:
- anonymous
- contains details that are none of our business, and which seem to be put there in order to sway a potential taker to hire you out of pity
- makes a bunch of claims but does not back those up
- asks for work but does not have any contact information
This is true, but I think some of these problems cancel each other out. If this post did have identification or contact information it would constitute begging for work based on pity and unsubstantiated claims. As it is, it reads like an honest request for advice.
Which you have provided, implicitly. And your advice is pretty good. Though I think it could be phrased differently: The original submitter seems to be looking for a jolt of confidence, rather than a critique. So let me rephrase it in my Happy Voice [TM]:
- Yes, you can find work as a designer for startups!
- You should probably avoid sounding like a charity case!
- You should link to a portfolio!
- You should provide a name and contact information!
- It is possible that HN is not really the best place on which to do this directly! We do not enjoy being spammed with resumes! Consider (e.g.) putting all this stuff on your website and then writing a nice blog post or two and submitting those to HN! Or talk directly to a few of the companies that are always being mentioned here!
Good luck.
Which you have provided, implicitly. And your advice is pretty good. Though I think it could be phrased differently: The original submitter seems to be looking for a jolt of confidence, rather than a critique. So let me rephrase it in my Happy Voice [TM]:
- Yes, you can find work as a designer for startups!
- You should probably avoid sounding like a charity case!
- You should link to a portfolio!
- You should provide a name and contact information!
- It is possible that HN is not really the best place on which to do this directly! We do not enjoy being spammed with resumes! Consider (e.g.) putting all this stuff on your website and then writing a nice blog post or two and submitting those to HN! Or talk directly to a few of the companies that are always being mentioned here!
Good luck.
-sorry for being anonymous. I though I'd be comfortable being honest when I am anonymous.
-The only calim that might sway you is that I am in financial trouble. But I stated it so you may understand my situation.
-I know I made baseless claims, the best I can do is to ask you to take my word for it and give some advice.
-If you need to contact me my email is [email protected].
Ok, so here is some straight up advice:
- put up a couple of links with stuff that you have done on a page somewhere (the start of a portfolio), if you have not done it for customers then show your own work. After all, if you say you can do it better show you can do it better.
- state who you are and where you can be reached. You're looking at entering in to a business relationship, that works best if everybody knows who they are dealing with.
- find small jobs. If you're really that hard up you have no interest in finding major redesigns simply because the turnaround time (and hence the time when you can send a bill) is long, smaller work is also easier to estimate, which is part art and part science, you need experience first to be able to estimate larger jobs.
- don't advertise that you are hard up, if you do you hollow out your own negotiation position, you are basically asking to be exploited (it also makes you seem weak and unprofessional), I take your word for it, please take mine that this is not the best way to present yourself.
- get yourself - with your portfolio - listed on all the designer job sites out there and make a competitive offer whenever someone approaches you
- spend time that you don't have work - yet - on honing your skills
I hope this helps you to get a foot on the ground somehow.
edit: a while ago somebody here posted a link to a bunch of job boards for freelancers and designers:
http://acrisdesign.com/2009/08/hello-world/
- put up a couple of links with stuff that you have done on a page somewhere (the start of a portfolio), if you have not done it for customers then show your own work. After all, if you say you can do it better show you can do it better.
- state who you are and where you can be reached. You're looking at entering in to a business relationship, that works best if everybody knows who they are dealing with.
- find small jobs. If you're really that hard up you have no interest in finding major redesigns simply because the turnaround time (and hence the time when you can send a bill) is long, smaller work is also easier to estimate, which is part art and part science, you need experience first to be able to estimate larger jobs.
- don't advertise that you are hard up, if you do you hollow out your own negotiation position, you are basically asking to be exploited (it also makes you seem weak and unprofessional), I take your word for it, please take mine that this is not the best way to present yourself.
- get yourself - with your portfolio - listed on all the designer job sites out there and make a competitive offer whenever someone approaches you
- spend time that you don't have work - yet - on honing your skills
I hope this helps you to get a foot on the ground somehow.
edit: a while ago somebody here posted a link to a bunch of job boards for freelancers and designers:
http://acrisdesign.com/2009/08/hello-world/
I live halfway around the world from most of my freelancers (and customers, for that matter), so that doesn't need to be point of difficulty for you.
Unjustified confidence might be, however. Frequently here we have a bunch of programmers who make the mistake of thinking that their code is 90% of their business, rather than 10%. You appear to be making the mistake thinking that your ability to design websites is 90% of what makes you a designer. You are overestimating that and underestimating, e.g., the amount of work you'll have to put into cultivating clients, acting in a professional manner, etc.
That is assuming that your self-analysis of your design skill ("better than most professionals") is accurate. 90% of the programmers I know of think they're above average, too.
I am however in financial trouble and urgently need a steady source of income.
Pro-tip: Never, ever tell a client this. It compromises your negotiating position, because it means that your best alternative to taking their terrible lowball offer is "starvation". Your position with regards to clients should always be that you are enthusiastic about working with them if a mutually satisfactory deal can be arranged. (This dynamic also works for standard employment and dating, I hear.)
Another tip: If you're as good as you think you are, underpricing to get clients is just going to result in you getting a lot of pathological bottom-feeders who a) do not appreciate what you bring to the table and b) will break you because you have not the foggiest idea of how to deal with clients yet. (See: the 90% of freelance designing which is not actually design.)
The best way to get a job doing X is to do X. If you want to make a cutting-edge Web 2.0 site and don't have a client, pick a recognizable name or just make one up -- Acme Widget Company, there, go to town. You can use that as the first of many things in your portfolio. Then start pressing the virtual flesh to meet people, for example via a blog (another opportunity to show off design chops).
Unjustified confidence might be, however. Frequently here we have a bunch of programmers who make the mistake of thinking that their code is 90% of their business, rather than 10%. You appear to be making the mistake thinking that your ability to design websites is 90% of what makes you a designer. You are overestimating that and underestimating, e.g., the amount of work you'll have to put into cultivating clients, acting in a professional manner, etc.
That is assuming that your self-analysis of your design skill ("better than most professionals") is accurate. 90% of the programmers I know of think they're above average, too.
I am however in financial trouble and urgently need a steady source of income.
Pro-tip: Never, ever tell a client this. It compromises your negotiating position, because it means that your best alternative to taking their terrible lowball offer is "starvation". Your position with regards to clients should always be that you are enthusiastic about working with them if a mutually satisfactory deal can be arranged. (This dynamic also works for standard employment and dating, I hear.)
Another tip: If you're as good as you think you are, underpricing to get clients is just going to result in you getting a lot of pathological bottom-feeders who a) do not appreciate what you bring to the table and b) will break you because you have not the foggiest idea of how to deal with clients yet. (See: the 90% of freelance designing which is not actually design.)
The best way to get a job doing X is to do X. If you want to make a cutting-edge Web 2.0 site and don't have a client, pick a recognizable name or just make one up -- Acme Widget Company, there, go to town. You can use that as the first of many things in your portfolio. Then start pressing the virtual flesh to meet people, for example via a blog (another opportunity to show off design chops).
I am a graphics designer but I have no formal education or any kind of real work experience
These are less important than a solid portfolio. Whether you're trying to reach startups or businesses in general, being able to direct them to a handful of sites you designed is a big help.
These are less important than a solid portfolio. Whether you're trying to reach startups or businesses in general, being able to direct them to a handful of sites you designed is a big help.
Dead on. I run a web design shop, and we might have some work for you, but I need to see a portfolio and prices.
My email is in my profile. Can't promise you anything, but if your work is good and well priced I'll certainly keep you in mind.
My email is in my profile. Can't promise you anything, but if your work is good and well priced I'll certainly keep you in mind.
Less important, but not unimportant. In particular, not having any real work experience is a bit of a red flag. Things could go fine. But you may have trouble communicating with clients, or meeting deadlines, or organizing your work, or responding to feedback. These are all fears that are mitigated by seeing you've had happy clients in the past, and ideally by talking to some of them. Something to be aware of when selling yourself.
I'll second the call for a portfolio. Many people (myself included) are constantly looking for skilled graphicians, but we need to see what we're getting.
If you're suffering from the chicken/egg problem (no contracts == no past work to show) then just do what the guy did with the zappos redesign: Pick a site that you think could look better, apply your magic, and publish that in the form of a blog post or just add it as a "proof of concept" to your portfolio.
You can also approach the site that you chose directly with your new design - if it's good then they might just buy it.
If you're suffering from the chicken/egg problem (no contracts == no past work to show) then just do what the guy did with the zappos redesign: Pick a site that you think could look better, apply your magic, and publish that in the form of a blog post or just add it as a "proof of concept" to your portfolio.
You can also approach the site that you chose directly with your new design - if it's good then they might just buy it.
Here's how this post should have read:
"Hi everyone, my name is Real Name and I'm a graphic designer looking for new clients. I'm currently based in X country but am able to coordinate your project via IM/email and telephone if needed.
See my work here http://someurl.com My resume is here http://someurl.com
Thank you and have a nice day.
- My Real Name
---
All I heard from your post is "I'm some kid with no experience who's broke and thinks he better than everyone else, hire me"
"Hi everyone, my name is Real Name and I'm a graphic designer looking for new clients. I'm currently based in X country but am able to coordinate your project via IM/email and telephone if needed.
See my work here http://someurl.com My resume is here http://someurl.com
Thank you and have a nice day.
- My Real Name
---
All I heard from your post is "I'm some kid with no experience who's broke and thinks he better than everyone else, hire me"
Actually I wanted to say "I'm some kid with no experience who's broke and thinks he as good as many other designers, Tell me how to get hired."
" "I'm some kid with no experience who .. thinks he as good as many other designers"
Prove this (by building something and providing a url to your creation) and you will have no problems getting clients.
Prove this (by building something and providing a url to your creation) and you will have no problems getting clients.
I did create a site for a friend of mine. Its at mediarosh.com
Its not my best work but I think its a decent design that achieves its goal.
While we're on the free advice tour anyway, ask your friend if it is ok to put a link on your creation to your own page.
Just a simple text link at the bottom that reads 'pages designed by yourname'. That should go a long way to making sure that people can verify your claims.
In return, from your portfolio you will link to their site, a small screenshot for each customer that you've served will do. Seeing the backlink on those pages is the proof that you are really the designer of those pages.
Just a simple text link at the bottom that reads 'pages designed by yourname'. That should go a long way to making sure that people can verify your claims.
In return, from your portfolio you will link to their site, a small screenshot for each customer that you've served will do. Seeing the backlink on those pages is the proof that you are really the designer of those pages.
he wouldnt want that because he runs a graphic design business and it would look bad if his own site says its designed by someone else.
btw, if anyone actually needs proof that i did in fact design it, just contact him through his site. I'll let him know that I posted on HN as anonymous512
btw, if anyone actually needs proof that i did in fact design it, just contact him through his site. I'll let him know that I posted on HN as anonymous512
Hm. Ok, so your friend is probably a good reason to take to heart the rest of the comments here, that is exactly why people want to see proof. Too many people out there claim they can do stuff when in fact all they do is outsource it to the lowest bidder at a ridiculous markup.
Still, you will need to make a page that lists your accomplishments, in this particular case you won't be able to put up a link, but if you've been doing this for a while you should be able to go through your harddisk to find a couple of examples of what it is that you can do.
I understand that you are in Bangladesh, that should give you an excellent position from a competitive point of view, people from the 'third world' can undercut people from the west in ways that there simply is no competing with.
At the same time, there is a - healthy - amount of skepticism with respect to the originality of designs from people that there is no face to face contact with, it is all too easy to misdirect potential customers by showing them the work of somebody else.
Still, you will need to make a page that lists your accomplishments, in this particular case you won't be able to put up a link, but if you've been doing this for a while you should be able to go through your harddisk to find a couple of examples of what it is that you can do.
I understand that you are in Bangladesh, that should give you an excellent position from a competitive point of view, people from the 'third world' can undercut people from the west in ways that there simply is no competing with.
At the same time, there is a - healthy - amount of skepticism with respect to the originality of designs from people that there is no face to face contact with, it is all too easy to misdirect potential customers by showing them the work of somebody else.
mediarosh? are you sure it's a friend? http://winky.net was one of their clients?
Second that. It would have come across as a professional person that is immediately available for work and whose status can be verified.
In fact, if such a posting came by on HN I would probably forward it to a couple of people on the off-chance that they would be in the need of such a person and I would bookmark the posting.
In fact, if such a posting came by on HN I would probably forward it to a couple of people on the off-chance that they would be in the need of such a person and I would bookmark the posting.
Personally I think this is spam, if its not then its simple - post a link to a portfolio - even half way around the world (which today means nothing, since there is no part of the world that is outside of the internet).
Same in the photography world, unless you have a portfolio, everything else is BS.
But I still think it's spam.
Same in the photography world, unless you have a portfolio, everything else is BS.
But I still think it's spam.
I am currently in the process of hiring designers for my current project. But I have to say, I need a good online portfolio. Just saying you can do better than what I have seen is not enough because I have a large list of designers with proven portfolios.
Agree with others, start with showing off a great portfolio.
The second most important point in my opinion is reliability.
Once you get your first client, make sure to touch base regularly, keep them informed of the process and delays, ask questions and request feedback. If you do this (which really, is nothing but being professional) then you'll have an edge over most freelance graphic designers (in my own limited, but sad experience :)
The second most important point in my opinion is reliability.
Once you get your first client, make sure to touch base regularly, keep them informed of the process and delays, ask questions and request feedback. If you do this (which really, is nothing but being professional) then you'll have an edge over most freelance graphic designers (in my own limited, but sad experience :)
Have you tried sites like 99designs.com? They have contests where you can submit designs and earn money if your design is chosen. If it's not chosen, at least you'll have some more design samples for your portfolio. Also if your design is chosen you might be able to get some recurring work from the client. Good luck and I wish you the best.
(I am not affiliated with 99designs.com and this is not an ad.)
(I am not affiliated with 99designs.com and this is not an ad.)
I'm not sure why someone downvoted this -- I think it's a good suggestion. I ended up using 99designs as a gallery of portfolios, found a guy whose work I consistently liked, and contacted him through the site.
Someone that's trying to get started like this could wander through some of the cheaper jobs on there (where the payment has been "guaranteed"), do those, make a little money, keep going.
If you're actually any good, it would be a viable option.
Someone that's trying to get started like this could wander through some of the cheaper jobs on there (where the payment has been "guaranteed"), do those, make a little money, keep going.
If you're actually any good, it would be a viable option.
Umm -
http://www.elance.com
http://www.odesk.com
Post your portfolio to both those sites. Begin bidding on projects. Bid low first just to get some reviews / get your foot in the door. If you are good you will have people chasing you down soon.
Post your portfolio to both those sites. Begin bidding on projects. Bid low first just to get some reviews / get your foot in the door. If you are good you will have people chasing you down soon.
If it is all right, I'll contact those of you who requested my portfolio in a week or so. I'll spend this time building a portfolio and populating it with some designs. I will take the advice of a lot of people hear and just make some redesigns for websites to show my skills.
Thanks for all the advice.
Thanks for all the advice.
For all the people wanting a portfolio. I dont have one but I would love to prove to you that I can make great design. Just give me a design assignment and I'll do it for you. You dont have to pay anything or make any commitment.
There is really no excuse for not having a portfolio. Go design some wordpress themes, or even better go re-design a site and just post what you did. For instance re-design HN and post it somewhere for people to see.
Working with a designer is alot of work from our side as well and I don't want to waste my time if I can't at least see some of your work.
Working with a designer is alot of work from our side as well and I don't want to waste my time if I can't at least see some of your work.
Here's your assignment:
design a portfolio for yourself. Sorry I can't pay you anything, but I want it done by next week.
design a portfolio for yourself. Sorry I can't pay you anything, but I want it done by next week.
If so, how should I go about contacting them?
Well, it sure would be easier if your profile wasn't anon. At least put a generic web mail address in your profile.
Well, it sure would be easier if your profile wasn't anon. At least put a generic web mail address in your profile.
I agree with the comments on this post.
However if you have a portfolio and are not anonymous, feel free to email me at: contact at eiso-kant dot com.
However if you have a portfolio and are not anonymous, feel free to email me at: contact at eiso-kant dot com.
Well, what is your portfolio url? Your portfolio will determine if you are employable much more than a degree.
Portfolios can be easily bogus too.
I used a freelance site and all the screenshots were from sites that didn't exist. I'd be weary.
"can only contact clients through email or IM"
I would never contact this person.
"I am proud to say that I can design better websites and user interfaces than most of them (both in terms of aesthetics and usability)."
"urgently need a steady source of income"
Why are you in financial trouble?
Halfway round the world?
flagged.
I used a freelance site and all the screenshots were from sites that didn't exist. I'd be weary.
"can only contact clients through email or IM"
I would never contact this person.
"I am proud to say that I can design better websites and user interfaces than most of them (both in terms of aesthetics and usability)."
"urgently need a steady source of income"
Why are you in financial trouble?
Halfway round the world?
flagged.
Yeah do you have a portfolio???
I am however in financial trouble and urgently need a steady source of income. I know that a lot of startups are on tight budgets and I was wondering if any might need a good designer who designs for a lot less than regular designers.
So my question for HN is if I might be able to get some decent regular design work from startups. If so, how should I go about contacting them? If not, what do I need to do to get there?