Web Developers Are Stupid(mcarthurgfx.com)
mcarthurgfx.com
Web Developers Are Stupid
http://mcarthurgfx.com/blog/article/web-developers-are-stupid
20 comments
Quick summary: Web developers are not stupid.
Quick summary of Michael Braude's blog (the post that article is rebutting): web developers just write HTML/CSS all day, I know nothing about web development on a production scale. I have made the smug assumption that a web startup does about the same thing as Joe's Home Page hosted by Tripod.
I actually take great offense to the original blog post that is referenced. I work at the other big company across the lake from MS (hint: it sells stuff online), and I dare say the work that I've done here is miles more advanced and demanding than anything I've ever done for a desktop app.
And it certainly includes a deep comprehension of compilers, concurrency (oh boy do I ever), inheritance, etc etc.
This guy is just entirely clueless about what it takes to build a production website. His notion of web development is about as accurate as me claiming desktop apps are just drag-dropping controls onto a form in VB.
I actually take great offense to the original blog post that is referenced. I work at the other big company across the lake from MS (hint: it sells stuff online), and I dare say the work that I've done here is miles more advanced and demanding than anything I've ever done for a desktop app.
And it certainly includes a deep comprehension of compilers, concurrency (oh boy do I ever), inheritance, etc etc.
This guy is just entirely clueless about what it takes to build a production website. His notion of web development is about as accurate as me claiming desktop apps are just drag-dropping controls onto a form in VB.
"We despise all reverences and all objects of reverence which are outside the pale of our list of sacred things and yet, with strange inconsistency, we are shocked when other people despise and defile the things which are holy for us." -- Mark Twain
Somehow I read it as "we despise all references and all objects of reference..." and had to do a double-take. :-)
The guys who carved Petra out of a mountain are arguably better at masonry that the guys who build houses by piling bricks on top of each other, but who's better at making houses?
Not a good analogy ;) Petra has stood the test of time for centuries, how long do you think your average brick house will stay standing?
Exactly, he pointed out the question isn't about Masonry skill but rather application. Having said that I disagree with his sentiment (web development isn't just building average brick houses).
Easy: Majority of the code being written day to day whether it's for the desktop, the web or some other device.
Hard: Running a successful business on the easy part.
I don't care what sort of software you are writing. I'm a business owner. I'm a web developer but my real business is dealing with people, not machines.
Hard: Running a successful business on the easy part.
I don't care what sort of software you are writing. I'm a business owner. I'm a web developer but my real business is dealing with people, not machines.
How are we defining "web developer" here?
This is from our friends at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_developer
A web developer is a software developer or software engineer who is specifically engaged in the development of World Wide Web applications, or distributed network applications that are run over the HTTP protocol from a web server to a web browser.
and
Modern web applications often contain three or more tiers, and depending on the size of the team a developer works on, he or she may specialize in one or more of these tiers - or may take a more interdisciplinary role. For example, in a two person team, one developer may focus on the technologies sent to the client such as HTML, JavaScript, CSS, and on the server-side frameworks (such as Perl, Python, Ruby, PHP, Java, .NET) used to deliver content and scripts to the client. Meanwhile the other developer might focus on the interaction between server-side frameworks, the web server, and a database system. Further, depending on the size of their organization, the aforementioned developers might work closely with a web designer, web producer, project manager, software architect, or database administrator - or they may be responsible for such tasks as web design, project management, and database administration themselves.
This is from our friends at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_developer
A web developer is a software developer or software engineer who is specifically engaged in the development of World Wide Web applications, or distributed network applications that are run over the HTTP protocol from a web server to a web browser.
and
Modern web applications often contain three or more tiers, and depending on the size of the team a developer works on, he or she may specialize in one or more of these tiers - or may take a more interdisciplinary role. For example, in a two person team, one developer may focus on the technologies sent to the client such as HTML, JavaScript, CSS, and on the server-side frameworks (such as Perl, Python, Ruby, PHP, Java, .NET) used to deliver content and scripts to the client. Meanwhile the other developer might focus on the interaction between server-side frameworks, the web server, and a database system. Further, depending on the size of their organization, the aforementioned developers might work closely with a web designer, web producer, project manager, software architect, or database administrator - or they may be responsible for such tasks as web design, project management, and database administration themselves.
There seems to be a bit of a trend for "$groupOfPeople are stupid" posts - presumably it's just an attempt to be inflammatory to get links and visibility.
People who post "$gOP are stupid" posts are stupid. Read about it on my blog ...
People who post "$gOP are stupid" posts are stupid. Read about it on my blog ...
I am stupid, but that just means you're too smart to do my job.
If I could downvote this, I would.
i agree with the point of the article (i.e., web developers are not stupid)
i'd say that the real issue is that there are lots of good web developers, and they are all are under wraps by big companies, doing the things that they like for a big salary. the bad ones need work, so they're very prolific with their presence and marketing.
the most visible web developers are stupid.
i'd say that the real issue is that there are lots of good web developers, and they are all are under wraps by big companies, doing the things that they like for a big salary. the bad ones need work, so they're very prolific with their presence and marketing.
the most visible web developers are stupid.
The real issue is that the original author is having a sour grapes fit over the fact that most development is moving the web, and he's stuck in yesterday's paradigm dutifully churning out his MS desktop schlock while guys without a college education are getting hired to work on highly visible and popular websites and applications.
Of course there are a bunch of talentless hacks out there calling themselves web developers, but that's just a function of the size of the market and the cluelessness of hiring managers.
If the original author was half as smart as he thinks he is, he would know better than to associate intelligence with one technical field or another.
Of course there are a bunch of talentless hacks out there calling themselves web developers, but that's just a function of the size of the market and the cluelessness of hiring managers.
If the original author was half as smart as he thinks he is, he would know better than to associate intelligence with one technical field or another.
"guys without a college education are getting hired"
While I agree wholeheartedly with the thrust of your comment, I have to say - I think the age of the college degree is in terminal decline, and nowhere is this more evident than on the cutting edge of IT.
I don't think we're quite there yet that we can declare the college degree to be irrelevant but we're close. In my company it's a "that's nice" thing. Like being a boy scout. Very good for character. Now, onto your demonstrating your ability, and showing you can fit in, which is all we actually care about.
If a school-leaver who wanted to be a programmer asked me today whether he should go to college, I would have difficulty answering him/her. I am leaning towards "don't bother". And FWIW, I went to college.
While I agree wholeheartedly with the thrust of your comment, I have to say - I think the age of the college degree is in terminal decline, and nowhere is this more evident than on the cutting edge of IT.
I don't think we're quite there yet that we can declare the college degree to be irrelevant but we're close. In my company it's a "that's nice" thing. Like being a boy scout. Very good for character. Now, onto your demonstrating your ability, and showing you can fit in, which is all we actually care about.
If a school-leaver who wanted to be a programmer asked me today whether he should go to college, I would have difficulty answering him/her. I am leaning towards "don't bother". And FWIW, I went to college.
Absolutely true. I don't think a college degree has any correlation to programming skill at all. I completed an MIT-based CS curriculum with all graduate-level classes my senior year. Had I not also been working full time as a web developer, and dabbling in the web since 1993, my degree would have made me virtually unhirable as a web developer.
On the other hand, the CS theory gives a very solid theoretical base that makes me a better programmer in all aspects of what I do. None of this stuff is exclusively available in a CS degree, all this information is available for free online if you know where to look. Most decent practitioners will pick up a lot of this stuff intuitively without formal training, but not with the same breadth or formality.
The stuff I did in my CS degree, such as optimizing binary code, writing a (subset of) Java compiler from scratch, and writing radiosity and monte carlo 3d renderers is demonstrative of a certain practical ability to deal with complex subjects that I consider valuable to all types of programmers. Therefore I think a CS degree can continue to stay very relevant, as long as they stick with theoretical CS and don't turn programs into Java and C# farms.
That said, the skills to succeed in a theoretical CS program do not necessarily translate into the ability to get things done in a real world environment, and it would also be a mistake to use it as some sort of litmus test since a college environment is not for everyone.
On the other hand, the CS theory gives a very solid theoretical base that makes me a better programmer in all aspects of what I do. None of this stuff is exclusively available in a CS degree, all this information is available for free online if you know where to look. Most decent practitioners will pick up a lot of this stuff intuitively without formal training, but not with the same breadth or formality.
The stuff I did in my CS degree, such as optimizing binary code, writing a (subset of) Java compiler from scratch, and writing radiosity and monte carlo 3d renderers is demonstrative of a certain practical ability to deal with complex subjects that I consider valuable to all types of programmers. Therefore I think a CS degree can continue to stay very relevant, as long as they stick with theoretical CS and don't turn programs into Java and C# farms.
That said, the skills to succeed in a theoretical CS program do not necessarily translate into the ability to get things done in a real world environment, and it would also be a mistake to use it as some sort of litmus test since a college environment is not for everyone.
There are certainly a lot of jobs that don't really require a college education for a person of decent intellect, and some kinds of programming are some of them, but I do think there are also careers that require a level of dedicated study that is really difficult for most people to accomplish outside of a structured learning environment like college and where it's difficult to quickly learn it on the job.
FWIW, I didn't go to college. I've often tried to follow lesson plans for the fellows that have, but it can be hard to crack into certain markets without work experience or verified education in an area.
FWIW, I didn't go to college. I've often tried to follow lesson plans for the fellows that have, but it can be hard to crack into certain markets without work experience or verified education in an area.
[deleted]
i like how i got voted down for expressing my opinion and experiences.
Well, I didn't downvote you, but I might hazard a guess: you went from a perfectly cogent argument directly to an outlandish and aggressive claim that you failed to substantiate: "the most visible web developers are stupid"
If you're going to make an inflammatory claim that like the least you can do is back yourself up with at least some anecdotes.
If you're going to make an inflammatory claim that like the least you can do is back yourself up with at least some anecdotes.