Ask HN: Do you agree on these screening shortcuts when hiring tech developers?
4 comments
Ditching your Windows or learning Ruby and/or Python shouldn't give your career a boost in the long run, unless you're developing for iOS/OSX/Linux or in Ruby and/or Python.
If a company is going to not continue with an interview because you use Windows, they might not be a company you want to work with (if you really like Windows, which I do). I'm actually quite surprised to see somebody who is so bold as to say a Windows user is a non-starter. I think this is very small minded, particularly as most end users are likely on a Windows PC, even if they have an iOS or Android mobile or tablet device. Developing for linux servers is a bit nicer on OSX, but if you're more comfortable on Windows, and can make it work for you, than that shouldn't be an issue.
As far as scripting languages go, I've got a bit of experience with Ruby and Python, as well as PHP, but I'd say my go to language of choice is Javascript. Java is still a hugely popular language, and there are so many others.
Basically, I think this presenter is trying to give 'start-up founders with little technical knowledge' the ability to screen technical people, but I think that is really difficult to do without knowing what type of technical position the person is hiring for. He also likely has some geographic bias. I live in Sydney Australia, where Rails devs seem quite rare, while Java and PHP still seem to be in vogue. When I was in North America, Ruby on Rails was the big thing.
I'd take a look at where you're at right now, what you want to be doing, and plan from there. I think you can mostly ignore this guy.
If a company is going to not continue with an interview because you use Windows, they might not be a company you want to work with (if you really like Windows, which I do). I'm actually quite surprised to see somebody who is so bold as to say a Windows user is a non-starter. I think this is very small minded, particularly as most end users are likely on a Windows PC, even if they have an iOS or Android mobile or tablet device. Developing for linux servers is a bit nicer on OSX, but if you're more comfortable on Windows, and can make it work for you, than that shouldn't be an issue.
As far as scripting languages go, I've got a bit of experience with Ruby and Python, as well as PHP, but I'd say my go to language of choice is Javascript. Java is still a hugely popular language, and there are so many others.
Basically, I think this presenter is trying to give 'start-up founders with little technical knowledge' the ability to screen technical people, but I think that is really difficult to do without knowing what type of technical position the person is hiring for. He also likely has some geographic bias. I live in Sydney Australia, where Rails devs seem quite rare, while Java and PHP still seem to be in vogue. When I was in North America, Ruby on Rails was the big thing.
I'd take a look at where you're at right now, what you want to be doing, and plan from there. I think you can mostly ignore this guy.
I share your viewpoint that the video was made for 'start-up founders with little technical knowledge' but most of the tips that were presented seem credible.
Myself, I am going to be graduating soon with a BSc and I yet have to do some of things that were mentioned. Such as using a version control and setting up a personal website (something I have being putting off for a long time). My first OS was Win 98 and my languages would be Python, Java, PHP, CSS/HTML. I am not entirely sure how I would stack up against other developers, and it bothers me how some recruiters would use shortcuts like these to simply not consider you at all.
Myself, I am going to be graduating soon with a BSc and I yet have to do some of things that were mentioned. Such as using a version control and setting up a personal website (something I have being putting off for a long time). My first OS was Win 98 and my languages would be Python, Java, PHP, CSS/HTML. I am not entirely sure how I would stack up against other developers, and it bothers me how some recruiters would use shortcuts like these to simply not consider you at all.
Don't worry about it. Heuristically, The sort of places that apply these sorts of heuristics are almost certainly the sort of places you don't want to work for.
Though I agree with you in principal, the problem is that people who don't know what they are talking about are being taught to use these heuristics to judge developers. I can't help them if they are taught to weed me out because I don't match what some stuck-up 'founder' has taught them at a General Assembly class and which is promoted via Google Entrepreneur series.
Terrible advice. It will be good fodder for illustrating how not to think in some future presentation.
When someone is hiring a developer, they're going to hire for the job. Those sieves might be useful when hiring for the current set of fads, but if I need someone to, say, write for an Azure deployed C#/SQLServer application, the brogrammer toting a Mac or telling me about his Linux skill isn't going to get any attention. If I need an embedded firmware developer, I probably won't much care about full stack or Ruby skills. Game programmer? A totally different set of skills.
So the whole idea that "the only good programmers are those that fit in my box" or "there's no way a Windows programmer could be any good" and the rest of his rubbish, to me as a hiring manager, scream "doesn't know shit about hiring people or building teams outside the tiny, incestuous world he's crawling in".
When someone is hiring a developer, they're going to hire for the job. Those sieves might be useful when hiring for the current set of fads, but if I need someone to, say, write for an Azure deployed C#/SQLServer application, the brogrammer toting a Mac or telling me about his Linux skill isn't going to get any attention. If I need an embedded firmware developer, I probably won't much care about full stack or Ruby skills. Game programmer? A totally different set of skills.
So the whole idea that "the only good programmers are those that fit in my box" or "there's no way a Windows programmer could be any good" and the rest of his rubbish, to me as a hiring manager, scream "doesn't know shit about hiring people or building teams outside the tiny, incestuous world he's crawling in".
He is setting himself up for a "Mark Russinovich walks into a bar" kind of joke...
Well that video is something...
If you want to take HR advice from a 28 year old... who's only hired a handful of people in his short career. Good luck!
Most corporate developers use C or C++, and yes C# and never truck code to Git. I'd never use Git for my code repository, there are much more stable products out there that have better security.
As for not using windows? Hmm... I 2 iterations of windows and ubuntu on my laptop and can boot in any of them depending on what I'm doing. 75% of the world uses Windows and if you're not working in the end users environment then how are you developing?
He left out reddit, even heavily edited its a good source of info.
Ruby is dying and python is taught in every decent CS program. PHP, js and even asp are very good depending on what is being done.
I would steer clear of any "employer" using these type of "heuristics" for hiring. A good employer knows that the tools don't make a craftsman... I don't care if a guy's never seen the inside of a git fork... I'd rather have him know how gc works in java on windows.
If you want to take HR advice from a 28 year old... who's only hired a handful of people in his short career. Good luck!
Most corporate developers use C or C++, and yes C# and never truck code to Git. I'd never use Git for my code repository, there are much more stable products out there that have better security.
As for not using windows? Hmm... I 2 iterations of windows and ubuntu on my laptop and can boot in any of them depending on what I'm doing. 75% of the world uses Windows and if you're not working in the end users environment then how are you developing?
He left out reddit, even heavily edited its a good source of info.
Ruby is dying and python is taught in every decent CS program. PHP, js and even asp are very good depending on what is being done.
I would steer clear of any "employer" using these type of "heuristics" for hiring. A good employer knows that the tools don't make a craftsman... I don't care if a guy's never seen the inside of a git fork... I'd rather have him know how gc works in java on windows.
Thanks for that insight. (I read your post about hiring the truck driver. I dont think many recruiters would do such a thing but I admire your decision at that time.)
Well. I've been a CTO of a company that had 1200 employees and 80 of them were mine. I probably hired more developers in one year than that guy has in his life.
I really never gave a shit or two about what OS my developer had on his laptop. Since he probably had what worked for him in his personal space.
I had development groups with project managers they called the shots with the producers and stakeholders on what tools were to be used in the project. If we were working on a webservice that interfaced with a product that was on a Windows server... Then most likely windows knowledge was a +.
In my opinion, most good developers know their way around several OSs and languages. They are just tools so they have an understanding of the tools they need for the job.
I personally don't know that many programmers that work in OS X. Linux on the desktop/lap is fairly new, so if a guy has a windows box at home. It wouldn't bother me one bit.
This cat is full of himself and his puny company. There's a 100 guys on here with better advice.
I really never gave a shit or two about what OS my developer had on his laptop. Since he probably had what worked for him in his personal space.
I had development groups with project managers they called the shots with the producers and stakeholders on what tools were to be used in the project. If we were working on a webservice that interfaced with a product that was on a Windows server... Then most likely windows knowledge was a +.
In my opinion, most good developers know their way around several OSs and languages. They are just tools so they have an understanding of the tools they need for the job.
I personally don't know that many programmers that work in OS X. Linux on the desktop/lap is fairly new, so if a guy has a windows box at home. It wouldn't bother me one bit.
This cat is full of himself and his puny company. There's a 100 guys on here with better advice.
* FULL DISCLOSURE * The "Truck Driver" was also a harvey mudd grad school dropout, who had a serious aptitude for math. He wasn't Bubba with a pocket donut... He was trying to make ends meet at the time and I gave him a chance.
On of the best Lisp programmer I ever picked up was a musician, who wasn't getting enough gigs. Had an advanced degree in Math from Carnegie Mellon, so I said "see if you can wrap your head around this and let's talk". Rest is history.
One of them says that a good developer always uses either OS X or Linux and using Windows is a no-no. Another one says the preferable primary scripting language should be Ruby or Python.
What do you think about these so called hiring heuristics? Will ditching a Windows laptop for a MacBook and being proficient in either Ruby or Python give you a career boost in the long run?