Sheriff Fires Cop Who Threatened to Arrest Me for Taking Photos of Cops(slog.thestranger.com)
slog.thestranger.com
Sheriff Fires Cop Who Threatened to Arrest Me for Taking Photos of Cops
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2014/02/03/sheriff-fires-cop-who-threatened-to-arrest-me-for-taking-photos-of-cops
10 comments
Heartening? I wish:
> Saulet has long history of misconduct, with approximately 120 allegations against him and 21 cases of sustained misconduct (more than any other officer in the department).
It isn't exactly progress if the worst officer in de the department is fired after sustained abusive behavior. And the union immediately attempted to overturn the dismissal as well. This is pretty much as bad as it gets.
So I see no reason for optimism, given the circumstances. There are no signs of structural improvement. Not so heartening.
> Saulet has long history of misconduct, with approximately 120 allegations against him and 21 cases of sustained misconduct (more than any other officer in the department).
It isn't exactly progress if the worst officer in de the department is fired after sustained abusive behavior. And the union immediately attempted to overturn the dismissal as well. This is pretty much as bad as it gets.
So I see no reason for optimism, given the circumstances. There are no signs of structural improvement. Not so heartening.
I am pro-Union BUT this is the type of things that get them in trouble all the time. People who perform poorly at work should be held accountable and not defended by the Union. It really is in the Union's benefit to weed out bad apples themselves and not protect them.
The Supreme Court disagreed long ago. See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7178777
I read it and learned. Did some research. There is wiggle room but I guess everyone is afraid of defining "fair representation" in regards to a firing.
No one said he was the worst in the department.
Yes, they did:
"""Saulet has long history of misconduct, with approximately 120 allegations against him and 21 cases of sustained misconduct (more than any other officer in the department). The sheriff's letter says that Saulet repeatedly was told to improve interactions with the public, and provided with remarkable investments of coaching and counseling. Saulet underwent three performance-improvement plans, two training sessions, and two multi-visit sessions with a social psychologist, coaching sessions with supervisors, and 80 hours of time off without pay."""
"""Saulet has long history of misconduct, with approximately 120 allegations against him and 21 cases of sustained misconduct (more than any other officer in the department). The sheriff's letter says that Saulet repeatedly was told to improve interactions with the public, and provided with remarkable investments of coaching and counseling. Saulet underwent three performance-improvement plans, two training sessions, and two multi-visit sessions with a social psychologist, coaching sessions with supervisors, and 80 hours of time off without pay."""
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>more than any other officer in the department
It's in the writing.
It's in the writing.
The reason for optimism IMO is the tone and content of the dismissal letter & statement.
There have always been individual police officers and sheriffs who take a stand against the abuse. The US such is a big country, how could it be otherwise? You can probably find a thousand similar examples if you look hard enough. I think it's already pretty comical that "Officer gets fired after long history of abuse" is news in the first place.
Optimism is only warranted when we have reason to believe things are getting better. One anecdote doesn't do much.
Optimism is only warranted when we have reason to believe things are getting better. One anecdote doesn't do much.
I will caution optimism based on tone. The reporter also filed a complaint on the officer in charge of this very incident. The SPD review concluded that "The officer took a normal contact with a member of the public and turned it into a confrontation and escalated it to a point where he was acting in a completely unprofessional and inappropriate manner". The punishment for completely unprofessional behavior by the officer in charge was "one unpaid day off of work" which was "an appropriate measure" in the "middle of the range of possible disciplinary actions". That doesn't strike me as taking it seriously. The sounds to me like a slap on the wrist for being unlucky and causing a PR issue for the police by doing this to a real journalist.
> The reporter also filed a complaint on the officer in charge of this very incident.
Note that these are two different officers with two different groups. Seattle PD disciplined Officer Marion with an unpaid day off. The King County Sheriff's Department fired Sgt. Saulet.
Note that these are two different officers with two different groups. Seattle PD disciplined Officer Marion with an unpaid day off. The King County Sheriff's Department fired Sgt. Saulet.
I am not a fan of public unions either, but this is a cheap shot at them and it hurts the ability to have a discussion about unions. Unions have what is called 'duty of fair representation' - which requires them to defend their members. If the union failed to defend him here he could sue the union claiming it has failed to fulfill its statutory duty to represent the employee in that dispute. If they got to pick which cases to defend, the whole point of having union reps/arbitration/mediation would go out the window.
More reading: http://www.flra.gov/Guidance_duty%20of%20fair%20representati...
More reading: http://www.flra.gov/Guidance_duty%20of%20fair%20representati...
Do they have to defend someone who is outside of the union's stated rules/expectations for a member? For instance if the Officer's Union stated that if a member was doing something illegal or grossly incompetent that they would not defend the actions? Not saying that this union does have that sort of stipulation, but curious as to where the line is drawn.
It does seem that the officer had a history of 'bad behavior' and was quite obviously in the wrong here. Do they have to defend 'hopeless cases' is really the question I have.
I would be much happier if the union stood back, and decided to let him try to bring suit, then shut him down in court for his own behavior... Rather than just trying to get someone who obviously has issues reinstated because "reasons".
It does seem that the officer had a history of 'bad behavior' and was quite obviously in the wrong here. Do they have to defend 'hopeless cases' is really the question I have.
I would be much happier if the union stood back, and decided to let him try to bring suit, then shut him down in court for his own behavior... Rather than just trying to get someone who obviously has issues reinstated because "reasons".
I doubt there is any sort of line.
Consider that someone accused of a crime gets to be represented in court, no matter how bad the accusation is (in the U.S.). The reasoning behind this is (1) they might not be guilty of the crime, and until the court decides they are, they should be treated as if they are not; (2) they need someone to ensure they are treated fairly.
I think similar reasoning can be applied here. Thus it would not be unreasonable that a union always defends a member who is accused/disciplined/fired.
Consider that someone accused of a crime gets to be represented in court, no matter how bad the accusation is (in the U.S.). The reasoning behind this is (1) they might not be guilty of the crime, and until the court decides they are, they should be treated as if they are not; (2) they need someone to ensure they are treated fairly.
I think similar reasoning can be applied here. Thus it would not be unreasonable that a union always defends a member who is accused/disciplined/fired.
My mother is (and has been for many years) an officer of the union at her workplace.
I know of many cases where employees were accused of either committing crimes or extreme violations of the "workplace rules" and the Union would not represent them before the company. These instances are the exceptions, of course, and the Union does represent the employee the overwhelming majority of the time -- and are, more often than not, successful in at least saving the employee's job.
This is not a Police Union, of course, so things may very well be different. It is my understanding that the officers in a Police Union are almost always current or former police officers and I would guess that they would represent an officer accused of wrongdoing in all but perhaps the most extreme cases (and, in those cases, it's probably mostly due to P.R.).
In my opinion, an officer accused of wrongdoing is entitled to due process just like anyone else. It does upset me, however, that Police Unions will often do anything they can to save an officer's job regardless of what s/he has done and/or the seriousness of the violation. I realize that that is what they are supposed to do but it ends up reflecting badly on the police department when Officer Smith was found to have done ${whatever} and escapes with little or no consequences.
I know of many cases where employees were accused of either committing crimes or extreme violations of the "workplace rules" and the Union would not represent them before the company. These instances are the exceptions, of course, and the Union does represent the employee the overwhelming majority of the time -- and are, more often than not, successful in at least saving the employee's job.
This is not a Police Union, of course, so things may very well be different. It is my understanding that the officers in a Police Union are almost always current or former police officers and I would guess that they would represent an officer accused of wrongdoing in all but perhaps the most extreme cases (and, in those cases, it's probably mostly due to P.R.).
In my opinion, an officer accused of wrongdoing is entitled to due process just like anyone else. It does upset me, however, that Police Unions will often do anything they can to save an officer's job regardless of what s/he has done and/or the seriousness of the violation. I realize that that is what they are supposed to do but it ends up reflecting badly on the police department when Officer Smith was found to have done ${whatever} and escapes with little or no consequences.
Quote: Do they have to defend someone who is outside of the union's stated rules/expectations for a member?
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I guess they would say that the person is 'accused' of being outside of their rules - and until they have satisfied themselves of that, then they need to support them.
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I guess they would say that the person is 'accused' of being outside of their rules - and until they have satisfied themselves of that, then they need to support them.
I think every criminal, no matter how blatantly obvious their crimes, deserves a fair trial, including competent representation at their trial. I think the Officers' Guild's obligations to their members works along similar lines.
Keep in mind, the alternative is that the Guild gets to choose (to a degree) which members to defend and which to hang out to dry. Such a situation leads to a whole host of perverse incentives. The Guild could effectively abandon whistleblowers; the Guild could collude or otherwise be influenced by the Police Department; interpersonal conflicts between officers and Guild leadership/administrators could influence their decisions; etc.
The Guild is a constructed entity whose sole purpose is to serve its members, by providing an organizational counterweight against the Police Department. Several of its obligations to its members ought to be treated as non-voluntary properties of its existence, in the same way that fiduciary duty is a non-voluntary obligation of a corporation to its shareholders, in order to lessen one potential avenue for corruption.
Keep in mind, the alternative is that the Guild gets to choose (to a degree) which members to defend and which to hang out to dry. Such a situation leads to a whole host of perverse incentives. The Guild could effectively abandon whistleblowers; the Guild could collude or otherwise be influenced by the Police Department; interpersonal conflicts between officers and Guild leadership/administrators could influence their decisions; etc.
The Guild is a constructed entity whose sole purpose is to serve its members, by providing an organizational counterweight against the Police Department. Several of its obligations to its members ought to be treated as non-voluntary properties of its existence, in the same way that fiduciary duty is a non-voluntary obligation of a corporation to its shareholders, in order to lessen one potential avenue for corruption.
I'm more talking about a system where a (frequent) repeat offender is no longer defensible as a candidate for being reinstated in this sort of job. I'm not talking about a trial in a criminal sense, I more mean the union pushing back to get someone rehired, when that person seems to continue to disregard the rules applied to their occupation.
For instance if you have approximately 120 allegations against him and 21 cases of sustained misconduct Should you get a 121st (or 142nd/22nd however you count) chance? I wouldn't say this is so much the guild exercising a choice, to defend or not, as them giving up on a 'habitual line stepper'. A whistle blower usually only gets 1 chance to blow the whistle (rather than 20-30) so I'd imagine that's a totally different situation for a number of reasons.
Idealistic sidenote: Being that the Guild is for Police Officers, who's main purpose is to protect the public and stop crime (Ok yes the supreme court said that police are not there to 'protect and serve' but to 'enforce') shouldn't the fact that one of their members seems to be continually in trouble with the public at large concern them rather than be something they blindly have to dispute? /idealism
For instance if you have approximately 120 allegations against him and 21 cases of sustained misconduct Should you get a 121st (or 142nd/22nd however you count) chance? I wouldn't say this is so much the guild exercising a choice, to defend or not, as them giving up on a 'habitual line stepper'. A whistle blower usually only gets 1 chance to blow the whistle (rather than 20-30) so I'd imagine that's a totally different situation for a number of reasons.
Idealistic sidenote: Being that the Guild is for Police Officers, who's main purpose is to protect the public and stop crime (Ok yes the supreme court said that police are not there to 'protect and serve' but to 'enforce') shouldn't the fact that one of their members seems to be continually in trouble with the public at large concern them rather than be something they blindly have to dispute? /idealism
How are they supposed to determine if an illegal action is committed? Isn't that the job of the court system?
The same way the guy did the firing did it?
You don't need to be convicted to be fired; you should not need to be convicted to have your union cut you loose.
You don't need to be convicted to be fired; you should not need to be convicted to have your union cut you loose.
I don't see why even the worst accused shouldn't be entitled to a defense. Why should anyone pay dues to an organization that would refuse to represent them? For it to be any other way, the union would have to hold its own hearing, and how would that work? Management would have to bring their complaint to the union for judgement? It's the prerogative of the employer to preside over disciplinary hearings and render judgement. The role of the union is to provide council to the accused member, not to judge him.
The unions ought to have their own internal committee that reviews each case and determines if one of their own has earned the merit of being represented. The fact that they have an agreement to represent a member no matter how wrong that member is is a sign that they need to review the assumptions of the social contract between the members and the union.
That wouldn't work. Now imagine the officer is fired for arresting a local politician and a complaint is filed for excessive force. If the union could pick and choose who to defend, they may court favors from the politician for not defending this guy. Now all protections he had are gone, and he has no recourse since his union won't argue on his behalf. Thats why they have to defend them always, you don't hate the public defender who has to defend the rapist/murder no matter how bad the crime, just the same as you can't hate the union for defending their member.
I'm strongly in favor of public (and private) unions, for what it's worth. The current system is pretty dysfunctional, though. I think unions and the employers should be mostly cooperative, not adversarial in nature. When it becomes Team Employer versus Team Employee and people defend people in their team no matter the circumstances you tend to get dysfunctional and inflexible bureaucracies.
Well, a cooperative relationship of course would work best. Unfortunately the historical circumstances that gave rise to unions didn't include such a relationship. Unions became favorable because of abusive practices by organizations (employers) with an incredibly lopsided advantage in resources (financially and politically). That hasn't changed in the last 100 years.
I agree completely. Countries with better employer-union relationships are typically countries where workers have more legal rights. So outlawing abusive practices to create a better balance of power would help.
Defending a member in a trial/adversarial process and a cooperative relationship do not exclude each other. The union can very well defend the member in this case while still discussing cooperative solutions to the general problem of officers bullying citizens, just as a lawyer can speak for your side while still reaching out to the other side to find a solution that's acceptable for both sides and does not include a verdict.
It is however important that unions have a bargaining power that is at least comparable to the other side's power - and that sometime requires going head to head with the opponent.
It is however important that unions have a bargaining power that is at least comparable to the other side's power - and that sometime requires going head to head with the opponent.
In a case where the union member, prior to termination, goes around the building telling everyone that the manager is a drunk and a criminal, making up stories and telling everyone that they're all going to be fired soon, in what might be called a fit of paranoid delusion, do you think the union should then go to bat for that employee? I think the union should absolutely have the right to pick and choose which cases to defend, especially in cases of clear and blatant violation of established rules and protocols.
The fact that most cops might get away with this kind of behavior does not make it any less egregious or untenable. If someone is a patent holder, does their lawyer have a duty to represent them in suit after suit when it becomes clear they (plaintiff) don't have a leg to stand on, and they are just trolling for settlements? Say, just because he pays the bills? No, absolutely not, and if it's done in a sustained and repeated kind of way that's recognized as abusive and the pattern is established, this kind of behavior should be grounds for disbarment.
It's a waste of procedural time. Maybe you're technically right in this case for some reason, because it's a public sector union, the stewards have a duty and the officer requested a defense, but that doesn't make it right.
The fact that most cops might get away with this kind of behavior does not make it any less egregious or untenable. If someone is a patent holder, does their lawyer have a duty to represent them in suit after suit when it becomes clear they (plaintiff) don't have a leg to stand on, and they are just trolling for settlements? Say, just because he pays the bills? No, absolutely not, and if it's done in a sustained and repeated kind of way that's recognized as abusive and the pattern is established, this kind of behavior should be grounds for disbarment.
It's a waste of procedural time. Maybe you're technically right in this case for some reason, because it's a public sector union, the stewards have a duty and the officer requested a defense, but that doesn't make it right.
>>do you think the union should then go to bat for that employee? I think the union should absolutely have the right to pick and choose which cases to defend, especially in cases of clear and blatant violation of established rules and protocols.
Supreme Court decided long ago that unions are legally obligated to defend all of their members regardless of what they do. It is commonly referred to as the "duty of fair representation." It originated in Steele v. Louisville and Nashville Railroad, but there has been more than sixty years of jurisprudence extending and clarifying that right since then. Essentially, what it comes down to is that if you are a member of a union, and you do something dumb, the union has to defend you.
Supreme Court decided long ago that unions are legally obligated to defend all of their members regardless of what they do. It is commonly referred to as the "duty of fair representation." It originated in Steele v. Louisville and Nashville Railroad, but there has been more than sixty years of jurisprudence extending and clarifying that right since then. Essentially, what it comes down to is that if you are a member of a union, and you do something dumb, the union has to defend you.
> I think the union should absolutely have the right to pick and choose which cases to defend
I don't believe so since that opens up the whole issue of who is to judge whether the "clear and blatant violations" actually occurred and if there's any extenuating circumstances. This discussion will be had in the hearing where the union takes the side of the defending party.
Basically it's the same principle as fair trial: Everyone has a right to have a fair trial and bring an attorney that has the duty to defend him, no matter the charges or how clear the case seems.
I don't believe so since that opens up the whole issue of who is to judge whether the "clear and blatant violations" actually occurred and if there's any extenuating circumstances. This discussion will be had in the hearing where the union takes the side of the defending party.
Basically it's the same principle as fair trial: Everyone has a right to have a fair trial and bring an attorney that has the duty to defend him, no matter the charges or how clear the case seems.
Unions are member-supported organizations with finite resources. (Really, national and international unions have basically infinite resources, but the business owners have finite resources to allocate in order to deal with them.)
The right to an attorney are with respect to criminal proceedings. A defendant does not have a Sixth Amendment right to counsel in any civil proceeding, including a deportation hearing. A fair trial is something that should be available to everyone, but if the lawyers are bogged down defending cases that their own members don't support, then either those unions or those business owners are doomed. I understand this to be a deliberate consequence of union formation, the threat of force is truly a compelling bargaining chip.
Many employment agreements are "at-will" and employers can terminate their employees without cause. In the case where such a firing is really "without cause," I agree that a union should support their member by representing the aggrieved party and making sure they get their unemployment benefits, but if the law says the employer has the right to terminate the employee for any reason or no reason, then this policeman can justly be fired with a laundry list of complaints -- that dwarfs the complaints for every other officer in the precinct -- and a last straw, is this constitutional violation, bullying a person off of public property for taking some pictures of public officials "doing their job."
If I were the union steward, I would meet with the officer well in advance of the hearing, before it had even been scheduled. I would have to open with "OK, convince me."
The right to an attorney are with respect to criminal proceedings. A defendant does not have a Sixth Amendment right to counsel in any civil proceeding, including a deportation hearing. A fair trial is something that should be available to everyone, but if the lawyers are bogged down defending cases that their own members don't support, then either those unions or those business owners are doomed. I understand this to be a deliberate consequence of union formation, the threat of force is truly a compelling bargaining chip.
Many employment agreements are "at-will" and employers can terminate their employees without cause. In the case where such a firing is really "without cause," I agree that a union should support their member by representing the aggrieved party and making sure they get their unemployment benefits, but if the law says the employer has the right to terminate the employee for any reason or no reason, then this policeman can justly be fired with a laundry list of complaints -- that dwarfs the complaints for every other officer in the precinct -- and a last straw, is this constitutional violation, bullying a person off of public property for taking some pictures of public officials "doing their job."
If I were the union steward, I would meet with the officer well in advance of the hearing, before it had even been scheduled. I would have to open with "OK, convince me."
I question whether the philosophy of an adversarial system to arrive at justice works as well as we think it does.
What about a duty to the union to preserve the reputation of its members in good standing?
Given the government so obviously keeps an eye on us, it only stands to reason that we are allowed to keep an eye on them. This is currently a point of contention, but with the current technological advances, I doubt it's one that will be able to stick and stay.
How can a government agency allow a person to have "21 cases of sustained misconduct" and still be employed much less not in jail?
I'm creating an account specifically to reply to this comment. Sheriff Urquhart has only been in office for a year, and this is the third cop he's fired for similar behavior. Details here: http://www.king5.com/news/local/King-Co-Sheriff-fires-deputy...
The sheriff (Urquhart) has only been on the job for a bit more than 1 year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Urquhart_(sheriff)
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If they had 120 allegations, imagine how many never got filed.
Go to the front desk at a police station and try to file a complaint, just make sure you have bail money on hand.
Go to the front desk at a police station and try to file a complaint, just make sure you have bail money on hand.
Is this true? Will you really be arrested for filing a complaint at a police station?
Someone went to like a dozen stations and tried to ask for a complaint form and recorded what happened. Has to be on youtube somewhere.
You won't be arrested specifically for the complaint of course, they are going to find something else, follow you, etc.
You won't be arrested specifically for the complaint of course, they are going to find something else, follow you, etc.
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It is great that in this case the policeman was sacked but I get the impression it was because he lied afterwards.
Police in the UK and US continually treat citizens as beneath them and with contempt - he should have been sacked because he was rude and wrong, not because he lied.
Police in the UK and US continually treat citizens as beneath them and with contempt - he should have been sacked because he was rude and wrong, not because he lied.
There was substantially more than just mere lying. From TFA:
"Saulet has long history of misconduct, with approximately 120 allegations against him and 21 cases of sustained misconduct (more than any other officer in the department). The sheriff's letter says that Saulet repeatedly was told to improve interactions with the public, and provided with remarkable investments of coaching and counseling. Saulet underwent three performance-improvement plans, two training sessions, and two multi-visit sessions with a social psychologist, coaching sessions with supervisors, and 80 hours of time off without pay. Saulet was demoted from sergeant to deputy for another incident in August"
In that incident "Saulet accosted a family that made a wrong turn into a Metro transit station last December [due to following their GPS]. Saulet reportedly threatened to arrest the parents in the car—including a visibly pregnant woman—and then suggested the couple's 18-month-old daughter would be seized by government authorities"[1].
Its also worth noting that the reporter filed a complaint against a 2nd officer who was also found guilty, but that officer was just given a day off without pay.
So the conclusion seems to be this was a problem officer who had been given many opportunities to improve and this was merely the last straw on the camels back.
[1] http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2013/08/19/king-co...
"Saulet has long history of misconduct, with approximately 120 allegations against him and 21 cases of sustained misconduct (more than any other officer in the department). The sheriff's letter says that Saulet repeatedly was told to improve interactions with the public, and provided with remarkable investments of coaching and counseling. Saulet underwent three performance-improvement plans, two training sessions, and two multi-visit sessions with a social psychologist, coaching sessions with supervisors, and 80 hours of time off without pay. Saulet was demoted from sergeant to deputy for another incident in August"
In that incident "Saulet accosted a family that made a wrong turn into a Metro transit station last December [due to following their GPS]. Saulet reportedly threatened to arrest the parents in the car—including a visibly pregnant woman—and then suggested the couple's 18-month-old daughter would be seized by government authorities"[1].
Its also worth noting that the reporter filed a complaint against a 2nd officer who was also found guilty, but that officer was just given a day off without pay.
So the conclusion seems to be this was a problem officer who had been given many opportunities to improve and this was merely the last straw on the camels back.
[1] http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2013/08/19/king-co...
It's a shrewd political move by the sheriff to fire the officer for this particular offense. It sends a signal to the other officers while remaining completely safe from any legitimate internal criticism or controversy. If you were a leader in the police who wanted to set the record straight on the legalities of filming police officers, this would be the way to do it.
Getting rid of the worst performer of any organization has a tremendous effect. They're usually the one most disengaged, the least reliable, and the one who sucks up the most resources.
Also, by getting rid of the "bad apple" you improve morale.
Also, by getting rid of the "bad apple" you improve morale.
If being rude and wrong were a sacking offence, hardly anybody would have a job. This police officer should be fired for abusing his authority.
Being rude and wrong in a position of power is, in this case, an abuse of authority.
There are bad eggs everywhere, but it doesn't help the conversation when you project the minority onto the whole.
By and large the police I have met in the UK are helpful and diligent. And I say that having been arrested, searched and locked in a cell for 3 hours by the police for no good reason, so have felt violated by them before.
I don't live in the US, so can't comment, but I imagine it's the same.
By and large the police I have met in the UK are helpful and diligent. And I say that having been arrested, searched and locked in a cell for 3 hours by the police for no good reason, so have felt violated by them before.
I don't live in the US, so can't comment, but I imagine it's the same.
In the US, at least, I hold that outside of a few small rural departments, there are no good cops, full stop.
Because the so-called good cops defend, with silence at minimum, all but the most extreme behavior of the really bad cops.
Because the so-called good cops defend, with silence at minimum, all but the most extreme behavior of the really bad cops.
Bullshit. One, it's a major generalization based on, well, nothing, and two, it's not that simple. You can stand on your moral high ground all you like, but what you are suggesting is that all of the cops who do their job properly leave because they don't have the power to stop those who don't. Well, what's the result of that? More bad cops. Only bad cops.
You overly simplistic view doesn't work in practice.
You overly simplistic view doesn't work in practice.
Agreed. Good cops cease being good as soon as they look the other way and keep quiet when a bad cop does something wrong.
Is this possible? Initially I thought this was an Onion article. If this really is true, that's wonderful news. One small step toward reinstating civil liberties.
Now how about someone deals with cops who illegally force doctors to do enemas and anal cavity searches on people for having strange posture, or do roadside vaginal cavity searches on women with no probable cause, or shoot people's dogs upon erroneously entering their homes, or shoot unarmed suspects standing still with hands in the air?
Also, I find it incredible that the people who swore to serve the citizens and protect the constitution of their country are so quick to completely disrespect the said constitution so often.
Now how about someone deals with cops who illegally force doctors to do enemas and anal cavity searches on people for having strange posture, or do roadside vaginal cavity searches on women with no probable cause, or shoot people's dogs upon erroneously entering their homes, or shoot unarmed suspects standing still with hands in the air?
Also, I find it incredible that the people who swore to serve the citizens and protect the constitution of their country are so quick to completely disrespect the said constitution so often.
The trajectory of most parts of US policing and civil freedom is one-thousand steps backward and one step forward. Thankfully, he had evidence. The phone wasn't stolen and its data wasn't deleted by the officer, later or on the spot as in other cases. Heartwarming nevertheless. A favorite comment on the post:
"This seems a bit harsh. Doesn't everyone deserve a 122nd chance?"
"This seems a bit harsh. Doesn't everyone deserve a 122nd chance?"
The so-called "first rule of policing" has absolutely nothing to do with citizens or the constitution. Its simply "Make sure when your shift is over you go home alive".
Believing this reliably turns men who could be (and want to be considered) heroes into cowardly thugs.
Believing this reliably turns men who could be (and want to be considered) heroes into cowardly thugs.
Those of us who follow cop "puppycide" do not believe there's anything "accidental" about the vast majority of these cases, and there's plenty of anecdotal evidence backing that up. Even some on video, I'm told.
And I direct you to noonespecial's reply. I'm old enough to have noticed the transition from "peace officers" (a basically righteous gang) to "law enforcement officers" (a gang of thugs) in my home town from the '70s to the previous decade. Helped along by a cop playing a game of chicken with his car and my body, I'm pretty sure trying to generate an "fleeing" arrest statistic.
And I direct you to noonespecial's reply. I'm old enough to have noticed the transition from "peace officers" (a basically righteous gang) to "law enforcement officers" (a gang of thugs) in my home town from the '70s to the previous decade. Helped along by a cop playing a game of chicken with his car and my body, I'm pretty sure trying to generate an "fleeing" arrest statistic.
> Also, I find it incredible that the people who swore to serve the citizens and protect the constitution of their country are so quick to completely disrespect the said constitution so often.
I think for a lot of people swearing an oath is just something you have to say before they give you a gun and money.
I think for a lot of people swearing an oath is just something you have to say before they give you a gun and money.
Click "I Agree" to accept the terms of service and proceed to the download page.
It's the same with taking the [Hippocratic Oath](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath) for doctors before they get the cash rolling in for them.
Would seem that way for the 'enhanced interrogation' doctors at the very least.
In Spain they don't threaten to arrest you for taking photos of cops,
they arrest you immediately without any warning.
But is it actually against Spanish law?
If an officer arrests you for breaking a bad law, that's not on the officer, that's on the legislators.
The UK it's a grey area. In theory it's fine unless the officer has reason to believe that the photos will be used to aid in an act of terrorism but that wiggle room could potentially be enough for an officer wishing to abuse their power.
Interestingly the Met actually have a page on photographers rights in this (and other) regards: http://content.met.police.uk/Site/photographyadvice
If an officer arrests you for breaking a bad law, that's not on the officer, that's on the legislators.
The UK it's a grey area. In theory it's fine unless the officer has reason to believe that the photos will be used to aid in an act of terrorism but that wiggle room could potentially be enough for an officer wishing to abuse their power.
Interestingly the Met actually have a page on photographers rights in this (and other) regards: http://content.met.police.uk/Site/photographyadvice
> But is it actually against Spanish law?
Not yet. http://rt.com/op-edge/spain-law-protest-violence-621/
Not yet. http://rt.com/op-edge/spain-law-protest-violence-621/
Further coverage:
http://photographyisnotacrime.com/?s=dominic+holden
I'm posting that link mostly for the name of the blog, to demonstrate that this kind of incident is common enough in the US to have its own blog. Personally I'm hoping this becomes moot when police officers are required to wear their own cameras while on duty.
http://photographyisnotacrime.com/?s=dominic+holden
I'm posting that link mostly for the name of the blog, to demonstrate that this kind of incident is common enough in the US to have its own blog. Personally I'm hoping this becomes moot when police officers are required to wear their own cameras while on duty.
I recall stumbling across that blog a while back and reading some of the stories -- some of which were frightening.
With almost all police cars now equipped with video cameras and officers wearing body microphones, I find it odd that they can be turned on and off by the officer. Although the camera and body mic are (usually, AIUI) activated automatically when the lights/sirens are engaged, I would love for the camera and microphone to be always-on.
With almost all police cars now equipped with video cameras and officers wearing body microphones, I find it odd that they can be turned on and off by the officer. Although the camera and body mic are (usually, AIUI) activated automatically when the lights/sirens are engaged, I would love for the camera and microphone to be always-on.
> Saulet underwent three performance-improvement plans, two training sessions, and two multi-visit sessions with a social psychologist, coaching sessions with supervisors, and 80 hours of time off without pay. Saulet was demoted from sergeant to deputy for another incident in August.
Like they were probably just waiting for anything to come along to fire this guy. Amazing he lasted so long.
Like they were probably just waiting for anything to come along to fire this guy. Amazing he lasted so long.
Police work attracts both the good and bad elements of society. Saulet appears to be one of the bad ones. It's a shame it took this long to remove him from the force.
Amazing, but probably not uncommon.
> thereafter, rather than be accountable, you attempted to recast events in a light more favorable to you
Rationalizations suck when you're in cognitive dissonance mode.
Rationalizations suck when you're in cognitive dissonance mode.
You might not be glad he got fired, but rest assured there are many of us who are. This type of thing happens constantly on every police force in America (and pretty much everywhere) and is oftentimes a lot worse.
It's a small win, but someone like this _deserves_ to be made an example out of. I doubt it will change anything, even in Seattle, but at least there's one less police officer arresting people and ruining their lives (arrest records are permanent; they cannot be expunged ever).
I personally can relate, having been threatened (along with about a dozen or more other people) by a police officer with death by SUV if I did not leave the public sidewalk. Yes, the officer started rolling into the crowd.
It's a small win, but someone like this _deserves_ to be made an example out of. I doubt it will change anything, even in Seattle, but at least there's one less police officer arresting people and ruining their lives (arrest records are permanent; they cannot be expunged ever).
I personally can relate, having been threatened (along with about a dozen or more other people) by a police officer with death by SUV if I did not leave the public sidewalk. Yes, the officer started rolling into the crowd.
Heartening.