Jolla CEO: You will soon be able turn your Android device into a Sailfish device(talouselama.fi)
talouselama.fi
Jolla CEO: You will soon be able turn your Android device into a Sailfish device
http://www.talouselama.fi/nakoislehti/jolla%20ceo%20you%20will%20soon%20be%20able%20turn%20your%20android%20device%20into%20a%20sailfish%20device/a2218386
14 comments
Oh man the Samsung version is the epitome of a train wreck. At some point, without my knowledge, NFL Mobile got installed on my phone and now every time I try to open a link, it completely ignores my preferences and asks me what program to open it with, one of which is NFL Mobile. It's just so nonsensical it's laughable. Nonstock Android is worse than Windows vendor bloatware.
This. I regret buying a Samsung S4 because it is loaded with so much crap. First, Google preloads their crap onto it, then Samsung preloads their crap ontop of that. THEN, AT&T decides that it should also provide you with messaging apps etc, so it preloads it crap ontop of that too.
I am re-asked every god damn day if I want to connect the Samsung whatever the fuck (tm) to Facebook, and I refuse, EVERY DAY. I have no words.
The marketers/business guys won, and the result is an utter trainwreck.
The sad thing is that even though the S4 is super powerful, basic tasks like opening up the contacts list or recent messages, still load sluggish!
Not sure if I like Jolla, but I just need to dump this Android bloatware fast.
I am re-asked every god damn day if I want to connect the Samsung whatever the fuck (tm) to Facebook, and I refuse, EVERY DAY. I have no words.
The marketers/business guys won, and the result is an utter trainwreck.
The sad thing is that even though the S4 is super powerful, basic tasks like opening up the contacts list or recent messages, still load sluggish!
Not sure if I like Jolla, but I just need to dump this Android bloatware fast.
Installing a custom rom like Cyanogenmod or AOKP would likely solve a lot of your problems. Both are available for your device and require little more work than establishing root, installing safe strap (or another recovery depending on whether your bootloader is locked or not), and then installing the rom. You'll still need to download and install the Google Apps package if you want access to the app store, but it cuts down on a lot of the bloat and adds a lot of useful features.
Oh I would totally do that if it didn't void the warranty. Employer pays for the phone. In retrospect, an iPhone may have been less annoying.
I felt so blessed running Linux on my Thinkpad while all the other civilians got their Windows laden HP laptops from BestBuy, loaded with boatware, and by virtue of being a Windows box, susceptible to Ask-toolbars in IE and other half-legal and fully-illegal software. Hell, I am sure I am not the only one who is doing semi annual spyware removal exorcisms for family and friends PCs.
But now I feel like the sucker, having bought this S4 from AT&T. Maybe I should just allow Samsung MusicHub to connect to Facebook so I can see what it wants to do, probably virally market itself to all my friends.
Good luck Jolla!
I felt so blessed running Linux on my Thinkpad while all the other civilians got their Windows laden HP laptops from BestBuy, loaded with boatware, and by virtue of being a Windows box, susceptible to Ask-toolbars in IE and other half-legal and fully-illegal software. Hell, I am sure I am not the only one who is doing semi annual spyware removal exorcisms for family and friends PCs.
But now I feel like the sucker, having bought this S4 from AT&T. Maybe I should just allow Samsung MusicHub to connect to Facebook so I can see what it wants to do, probably virally market itself to all my friends.
Good luck Jolla!
Here's a problem: I'm looking for a phone that can do T-Mobile wifi calling, which means I need a T-Mobile phone and a T-Mobile ROM, and I'm struggling to find a T-Mobile phone that has the least amount of crapware on it. If you use T-Mobile wifi calling, you can't flash a new ROM.
Is there any particular reason it has to be T-Mobile Wi-Fi calling? There are lots of free apps that let you do Wi-Fi calling through Google Voice (so you can still use your current number).
I want it to be seamless. I don't want people to have to call one number if I'm on wifi and another if I'm on 4G. I want to be able to make an outbound call and not worry about if it's 4G or wifi. I want to be able to send and receive text messages just like normal.
I want wifi to be just like a cell tower. Are there other apps that can do that (and that aren't a nightmare to set up?)
I want wifi to be just like a cell tower. Are there other apps that can do that (and that aren't a nightmare to set up?)
Root it, use something like SDMaid to lock out the annoying apps. Done.
No idea if this voids your warranty, but I buy phones upfront and unsubsidised anyway so it's less of a concern.
No idea if this voids your warranty, but I buy phones upfront and unsubsidised anyway so it's less of a concern.
No need to root since 4.1: http://thedroidlawyer.com/2013/05/how-to-disable-bloatware-i...
Other than the principle that the user shouldn't have to wage war on his own phone, rooted phones are usually also blocked from corporate networks.
You can disable apps (even system apps) without rooting in recent android. Open Apps in Settings, find the app, click disable.
Or did Samsung get rid of that feature?
Or did Samsung get rid of that feature?
That's quite likely to be your carrier, not that Samsung are beyond reproach (TouchWiz as a selling point?), but a lot of the bundled apps you should blame your carrier for.
Nokia's reputation of old in Europe was based on the fact for a long time they were the only manufacturer to tell operators to [guess] themselves and sell relatively clean devices to end users. In the US they never did this, with the result that they never really got traction in that market. With MMS this started to change, to the point one device whenever you selected send message it actually went to the MMS option in the menu, and you'd have to scroll to text message, because the operators had asked to encourage MMS usage as they charged loads for it.
Nokia's reputation of old in Europe was based on the fact for a long time they were the only manufacturer to tell operators to [guess] themselves and sell relatively clean devices to end users. In the US they never did this, with the result that they never really got traction in that market. With MMS this started to change, to the point one device whenever you selected send message it actually went to the MMS option in the menu, and you'd have to scroll to text message, because the operators had asked to encourage MMS usage as they charged loads for it.
Samsung: My unbranded German S3 came with shit like delivery-service apps etc.
Nokia: I don't think that the things you say about their reputation is true (for German), in Germany Nokia phones had carrier crapware like all the other phones too.
Nokia: I don't think that the things you say about their reputation is true (for German), in Germany Nokia phones had carrier crapware like all the other phones too.
From about 2002/2003, yes, but by then the operators were messing the manufacturers around. Nokia's golden era was approximately 96-2002 before this and the S60 mess really bit.
Vodafone went as far as commissioning handsets directly from co-operative manufacturers and this changed the game completely as the message was heard that unless you play their game you aren't getting sold.
Only the deal Apple got from AT&T remotely affected this status quo. Android was originally designed for precisely the kind of operator customisation we're complaining about, as is Firefox OS, but it's only thanks to Apple (and I loathe the way iOS has gone) that we have any choice about this stuff at all. The fact it took them to stir things up is justifiably embarrassing to the telecoms industry.
Vodafone went as far as commissioning handsets directly from co-operative manufacturers and this changed the game completely as the message was heard that unless you play their game you aren't getting sold.
Only the deal Apple got from AT&T remotely affected this status quo. Android was originally designed for precisely the kind of operator customisation we're complaining about, as is Firefox OS, but it's only thanks to Apple (and I loathe the way iOS has gone) that we have any choice about this stuff at all. The fact it took them to stir things up is justifiably embarrassing to the telecoms industry.
If you open up settings -> applications and find NFL mobile, you should be able to disable it.
Yeah, I was just upset that it happened in the first place (and obviously, after a carrier update) It's mostly annoying because my phone keeps ignoring my preferences about how to open links from facebook and then one day NFL Mobile shows up and damnit, I can only be ignored so many times!
Everyone keeps looking to Sailfish as a FOSS alternative to Android. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the "swipe UI" in Sailfish is proprietary. As for the rest of the OS, it's just Mer (ie. a fork of MeeGo). As AOSP is a fully functional OS even without Google's proprietary bits, I'd say Android is still the better bet. If you are that dedicated, you can use pure AOSP and load all your apps onto the SD card and simply install with the package manager. It's as easy as installing .debs on a Debian based distro or installing from .dmg on a Mac.
I think the big takeaway from this is that Mer will be compatible with a bunch more Android devices. This means you can then install Plasma Active on top of it, and have a pure FOSS mobile OS that actually performs well (Plasma Active seems to run quite slick on the first gen Nexus 7 anyways).
I think the big takeaway from this is that Mer will be compatible with a bunch more Android devices. This means you can then install Plasma Active on top of it, and have a pure FOSS mobile OS that actually performs well (Plasma Active seems to run quite slick on the first gen Nexus 7 anyways).
I've already decided looking at 4.4 that I will do as much as possible to avoid Android for my next phone. I am interested in Jolla, but not as convinced about them being truly open as Mozilla is etc, they need to convince me better of their real motives and philosophy. Google have become very clear, now that they have decided to close almost everything on Android, no more SMS app, Google Now baked into the launcher, everything is G+ now, gallery app is on deathwatch. I feel like a peasant to Google, while they battle with the OEMs, Samsung, carriers, social networks etc they simply force feed their services down users throats, there is little point having an Android phone if you do not want to live 100% Google. Google are acting as feudal lords, they command us the peasants to do their bidding. Well I am moving out, I left iOS for a reason, I want my freedom.
I'm curious how Android's choice of default applications implies less "freedom". Don't like SMS being folded into Hangouts? Use Handcent--it's better anyway. Will the Gallery app disappear? Use QuickPic--it's better anyway. Don't like the new launcher? There's Nova and Apex and Smart and a dozen other really good choices. (They're better anyway, too!)
And if that's not enough for you, sure, go try something else, but the dramatics don't really help make your case.
And if that's not enough for you, sure, go try something else, but the dramatics don't really help make your case.
I know there alternatives but my problem is with the direction Google are taking Android and the fact they are abandoning existing open apps and replacing them with closed-source ones. More and more apps will not function either because they rely on Google Play Services, so trying to go around the issue by using OSS apps (such as through F-Droid) will only be feasible for so long, eventually Google will have so much of the API tied into Google Play Services it just is pointless to make an app without it. Google made a decision that its openness on Android is a strategic weakness, damaging potential revenues and user data acquisition. That's fine, I'm not crying over it, I am just going to leave the platform as soon as I can and go to something which is more open, such as Firefox OS (or possibly Jolla OS).
That is a mighty slippery slope you're positing, sir, but good luck with your alternatives.
You have a different idea of "freedom" than we do
The problem is not bundling in closed-source applications... the problem is removing (and thus stopping development) of the previously-default open source applications
Are Nova, Apex and Smart OSS? I looked at their web pages, but I don't see any link to the sources
basically: you still have freedom 0 (and possibly freedom 2, if you're willing to go against the EULA)... but, concerning freedom 1 and freedom 3, Android (as in AOSP) is stuck to something like version "4.*"
The problem is not bundling in closed-source applications... the problem is removing (and thus stopping development) of the previously-default open source applications
Are Nova, Apex and Smart OSS? I looked at their web pages, but I don't see any link to the sources
basically: you still have freedom 0 (and possibly freedom 2, if you're willing to go against the EULA)... but, concerning freedom 1 and freedom 3, Android (as in AOSP) is stuck to something like version "4.*"
Yes, I do have a very different definition than you do, which is what makes your almost-begging-the-question rhetorical adoption of the implicit redefinition of freedom as Those Enumerated By Richard Stallman...well, kind of funny. On the other hand, I will enjoy my freedom to use software without concerns of ideological purity because I have alternatives if I don't like them.
Nothing stops you from writing your own to-your-specifications launcher or SMS client or email client atop the openly-licensed Android stack (and leverage having an actually useful, widely-supported phone). People might even use your GNU-gold-starred alternative if it's more than barely functional, though the track record of said gold-starred software with regards to UX doesn't fill me with optimism. But I do wish you luck.
Nothing stops you from writing your own to-your-specifications launcher or SMS client or email client atop the openly-licensed Android stack (and leverage having an actually useful, widely-supported phone). People might even use your GNU-gold-starred alternative if it's more than barely functional, though the track record of said gold-starred software with regards to UX doesn't fill me with optimism. But I do wish you luck.
Actually, I'm nowhere "ideologically pure" as you think I am.
I'm still using my google-sanctioned stock android, and I routinely use some sort of closed source software...
My point was more like: I'm using google-android now, out of convenience, but I stopped strictly seeing Android releases[1] as improvements (and thus I _might_ refrain to use KitKat... if I'll move to a google-less cyanogenmod or to Ubuntu or Jolla I still don't know)
Also, My intention was not to be rhetoric: I just found Stallman definitions of freedom useful in this context to understand what some people are complaining about
[1] as in "Android used on Nexus", compared to AOSP
I'm still using my google-sanctioned stock android, and I routinely use some sort of closed source software...
My point was more like: I'm using google-android now, out of convenience, but I stopped strictly seeing Android releases[1] as improvements (and thus I _might_ refrain to use KitKat... if I'll move to a google-less cyanogenmod or to Ubuntu or Jolla I still don't know)
Also, My intention was not to be rhetoric: I just found Stallman definitions of freedom useful in this context to understand what some people are complaining about
[1] as in "Android used on Nexus", compared to AOSP
It sounds like you should move to CyanogenMod.
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The non-optional-ness of Google Now if you expect Maps to actually function properly is the single most irritating thing Google have ever done. They're basically saying you have to consent to us slurping all of your info in order to use any of our services. The net result is I'm now always looking for alternatives.
If I was a Shuttleworth type character I would throw my money into creating a Google-free Android with full on replacements for Maps, Gmail, Calendar and the Play Store. Frankly, Microsoft should probably do this - throw away Windows Phone and produce a bundle of Android apps that give you top class maps and Exchange server integration.
If I was a Shuttleworth type character I would throw my money into creating a Google-free Android with full on replacements for Maps, Gmail, Calendar and the Play Store. Frankly, Microsoft should probably do this - throw away Windows Phone and produce a bundle of Android apps that give you top class maps and Exchange server integration.
Google seems to have really lost the plot lately, forcing their policies and updates down our throats.
That coincides with Jean Baptiste Queru leaving Android and subsequently leaving Google. The core of Android has a surprisingly small team, so one person can make a big difference. AOSP is low man on the totem pole, and seems to have gotten lower.
If I was running any open source Linux distro I would sell the hell out of being able to audit and build the source code, and modify it to include voice encryption on phone devices that enable access to the audio path.
There has to be a huge government market for secure phones. VoLTE will do a lot to enable secure voice by enabling implementation of more of the audio path in the smartphone CPU.
Secure phones, tablets, PCs, routers, etc. all seem like a market poised to take off, yet I don't see a move by the 1st tier Linux distros.
There has to be a huge government market for secure phones. VoLTE will do a lot to enable secure voice by enabling implementation of more of the audio path in the smartphone CPU.
Secure phones, tablets, PCs, routers, etc. all seem like a market poised to take off, yet I don't see a move by the 1st tier Linux distros.
Very legitimate concern. Jolla is a company that strives for profit, unlike Mozilla. And as such we can't expect them to have the same motives to keep their platform free.
However, Mozilla also doesn't have the same influence, because of that, and makes pretty weak phones.
However, Mozilla also doesn't have the same influence, because of that, and makes pretty weak phones.
Jolla have said themselves that they might not attempt to grow quickly as a monolith, but more slowly, and be the centre of many smaller organizations. The original owners have maintained control in order to do that. Bear in mind that the company was born out of the chaos of high finance maneouvring at Nokia.
Very interesting section on China:
> ”There is no such culture in these parts of the world [Finland], but there are people that are installing new operating systems on their devices. In China it is mainstream. About half of the smartphone buyers are upgrading their older or cheaper devices with a better version of Android.”
> “For us it is a possibility to distribute our operating system especially in China. There are websites that already distribute [OS] software and the Chinese customers are doing it so we don’t have to teach them. We just have to get Sailfish to those websites – and to make sure that Sailfish will run on different kind of Android devices.”
Half of all smartphone buyers are flashing their devices with new operating systems? That seems astonishing.
> ”There is no such culture in these parts of the world [Finland], but there are people that are installing new operating systems on their devices. In China it is mainstream. About half of the smartphone buyers are upgrading their older or cheaper devices with a better version of Android.”
> “For us it is a possibility to distribute our operating system especially in China. There are websites that already distribute [OS] software and the Chinese customers are doing it so we don’t have to teach them. We just have to get Sailfish to those websites – and to make sure that Sailfish will run on different kind of Android devices.”
Half of all smartphone buyers are flashing their devices with new operating systems? That seems astonishing.
I know quite a few of these people and most of them say that when they do that it feels like they're using a totally new phone, without much cost.
China is getting richer but there are so many people and so many with what is still a very modest income compared to the price of a smartphone I'm not surprised that aftermarket ROMs area big thing, even mainstream. I'd bet that lots of shops will do such an upgrade for you for a small price, so widespread expertise in rooting a phone is not required.
Android is so widespread due its nature as the QNX of the mobile world. A manufacturer gets it for free and then can add shit on to it.
The vast majority of users chose a cheap smartphone, not Android explicitly. Samsung and others do not even mention Android anymore, that for specsheets like the processor being used. China has this large number of Android devices which are non-Google, no Play Store, no Google Now, nothing.
Now Jolla comes in and acts as an alternative to Android. For whom? End users? 99% don't give a shit. Like asking which fuel injection systems your car uses.
So what does Jolla offer to manufacturers to choose it over Android? Even less restrictions than the open Android? Less cost? If so, it can't be price - will they adapt the OS for specific hardware for free as well?
Android compatibility. You want a KILLER feature? iOS compatibility. Enable devs to simply copy over their code and run their shit on Jolla.
The vast majority of users chose a cheap smartphone, not Android explicitly. Samsung and others do not even mention Android anymore, that for specsheets like the processor being used. China has this large number of Android devices which are non-Google, no Play Store, no Google Now, nothing.
Now Jolla comes in and acts as an alternative to Android. For whom? End users? 99% don't give a shit. Like asking which fuel injection systems your car uses.
So what does Jolla offer to manufacturers to choose it over Android? Even less restrictions than the open Android? Less cost? If so, it can't be price - will they adapt the OS for specific hardware for free as well?
Android compatibility. You want a KILLER feature? iOS compatibility. Enable devs to simply copy over their code and run their shit on Jolla.
iOS compatibility is not impossible, but it is much harder, and would require a budget, shooting from the hip, 5X more and 2X the time to arrive at something end-users would find usable. You would have to do something like OpenStep, except with iOS APIs.
With Android you can use the AOSP bits.
With Android you can use the AOSP bits.
This is the best news I've read all month! I really hope they make the process easy. As an ex-Nokia user I've never been the biggest fan of Google's android monoculture and big brother approach to my privacy. I'd be interested to see how sailfish compares to android in terms of resource utilisation.
I'd love that. I have some older devices sitting around and totally would install Sailfish on it and try it out!
I think Jolla has the best chance among the new entrants in mobile OSs, but I think this is a fairly minor issue. You can run Ubuntu touch on many Android devices, too. It's more important for Ubuntu because they don't have their own handset or an OEM launch partner.
I would rather have a Jolla handset.
I would rather have a Jolla handset.
He doesn't address the obvious question: Why? Why for the end user? Why for Jolla?
People reflashing devices is not "all users", and that leaves open a few possibilities.
For users, a far better user interface (still prefer the user interface of the N9 over android one), a new app ecosystem (work most android apps, plus jolla native/meego/mer ones, maybe will be a compatibility layer to run ubuntu touch/tizen ones, and as it is based on qt/qml, probably will be easy to port BB10 ones too. And of course, ports of linux apps in general (the N900 had a lot of them)
For Jolla is, of course, improving installed base, enabling people to try, or even improve the OS, and generate a critical mass of developers and fans that will make the rest of potential users to see with good eyes the phones with jolla built in.
Remember, part of android success was that people was able to install cyanogenmod in their old windows phones. If this is more efficient than android giving new life to old android phones could give enough visibility to the new OS.
For users, a far better user interface (still prefer the user interface of the N9 over android one), a new app ecosystem (work most android apps, plus jolla native/meego/mer ones, maybe will be a compatibility layer to run ubuntu touch/tizen ones, and as it is based on qt/qml, probably will be easy to port BB10 ones too. And of course, ports of linux apps in general (the N900 had a lot of them)
For Jolla is, of course, improving installed base, enabling people to try, or even improve the OS, and generate a critical mass of developers and fans that will make the rest of potential users to see with good eyes the phones with jolla built in.
Remember, part of android success was that people was able to install cyanogenmod in their old windows phones. If this is more efficient than android giving new life to old android phones could give enough visibility to the new OS.
> Remember, part of android success was that people was able to install cyanogenmod in their old windows phones.
Not really, no. Only a tiny fraction of Android users even know what cyanogen mod is, let alone install it on their phone.
That's not at all what made Android successful.
Not really, no. Only a tiny fraction of Android users even know what cyanogen mod is, let alone install it on their phone.
That's not at all what made Android successful.
He's referring to the beginning, were geeks were still important for android.
A tiny fraction of hundreds of millions still works out in the millions. The number of people that modify Android devices is really quite astonishing.
Installing Android on old Windows mobile phones rarely counts in market share as most market share data comes ftom phone purchases . The obvious success is the low cost and OEM and carrier support despite iOSs better appstore. When I went to Android in 2010 it was over 300$ cheaper because I didn't need to pay the AT&T iphone'fine' and got unlimited data from another carrier.
But the Jolla phone doesn't actually use the N9 interface, does it? I personally think it's a pretty ugly and outdated interface, but each to their own. I like Ubuntu Touch more at least aesthetics wise. Android KitKat is prettier than both.
Not directly, no. But it's still clearly inspired by it.
The end user might like a device that is not as interconnected with Google.
you don't need Jolla for that, you can just build your OS on to of Android. There are plenty of Android based OSes out there that do not license Google's apps. If you don't license Google's services then you can do whatever you want, and if you decide to stay compatible then developers can offer their existing apps on your software with little effort.
AKAIK Jolla is more open. Its more like a Linux distro than Android. I want something else than trying custom Android ROMs. I want to be fully in control of my device.
The entire UI (all the code in the stack from Mer up) is proprietary. Sailfish is less open than Android. Atleast AOSP is a fully functional OS you can run on your phone (though dramatically less functional than when you include the Google binaries).
Probably because of the obvious answer: Because the CEO of Jolla thinks that Jolla's operating system is better than others, and the option to switch to something that may be better is a good thing, whether or not you choose to take it.
Sure, it would be good for my ego if people installed "rwmjOS". But how does it help his company? That is to say, financially?
Jolla's apparent killer feature is that it runs Android apps, like, erm, Android. It's not really any more open or cheaper than AOSP.
Jolla's apparent killer feature is that it runs Android apps, like, erm, Android. It's not really any more open or cheaper than AOSP.
How is anyone going to buy your devices if no one has heard of them?
The best chance they have to gain traction is to attract users. You can buy marketing until your budget is gone, but that only goes so far; word of mouth is almost certainly the best chance they have to expand their user base, improving their brand awareness, drawing new buyers.
The best chance they have to gain traction is to attract users. You can buy marketing until your budget is gone, but that only goes so far; word of mouth is almost certainly the best chance they have to expand their user base, improving their brand awareness, drawing new buyers.
The only thing that will save Jolla is a time machine.
Its important to note that most of us don't like Google for moral rather then practical reasons. The best strategy might be to upstream Android to the Linux kernel and and develop a userland clone.
Its important to note that most of us don't like Google for moral rather then practical reasons. The best strategy might be to upstream Android to the Linux kernel and and develop a userland clone.
Jolla is a pretty small company so selling relatively overpriced phones just with the appeal of a different OS to a very small market might be profitable. At least it's a saner strategy than them trying to go against Google ":D"
Firefox OS aims to be open, targeting the whole world including developing countries. (Where there's still growth)
Jolla is Nordic people trying desperately to maintain a mobile industry. (Targeting existing consumers, who are well catered for)
I know which I'm developing for.
Jolla is Nordic people trying desperately to maintain a mobile industry. (Targeting existing consumers, who are well catered for)
I know which I'm developing for.
Yes! Good. I'd be worried if they didn't.
Maemo, Moblin, LiMo, Bada, MeeGo, mer, Tizen, Tizen NG, Nemo Mobile, Sailfish OS...
This is tragic.
All this effort gone into endless, pointless rebranding and new website designs instead of new code.
This is tragic.
All this effort gone into endless, pointless rebranding and new website designs instead of new code.
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You are just a consumer on Android. The founders call Google 'the third half of your brain', and when you use Android you realise you don't control that third half, it's controlled for advertising purposes (with access granted or taken for various government agencies). Ubuntu, Jolla or Firefox need to succeed on mobile because Android is actually worse than Windows 95, XP etc for user customisation and freedom. That's stock on a Nexus too, the custom versions from handset manufacturers are a whole different train wreck.