How to Retire On $500 Per Month(jetsetcitizen.com)
jetsetcitizen.com
How to Retire On $500 Per Month
http://jetsetcitizen.com/cheap-travel/can-you-retire-on-500-per-month/
84 comments
> If you add it up over 10-15 years the opportunity cost of living in the US is over $1M for most people.
And you get the opportunity of living in the U.S. I certainly think this is worth >$1M over a lifetime.
I like living in the U.S. I like having a car, and the associated freedom to take a day trip anywhere in the Bay Area. I like living in a suburban neighborhood where's there's trees and greenery, and yet stores, restaurants, and other conveniences are all nearby. I like being able to work on exactly the same stuff I do for fun and yet get paid for it. I like that I'm surrounded by some of the best & brightest immigrants from around the world in my job. I like my "horrible western diet", which basically consists of being able to eat whatever variety of food I feel like. I can have Mexican for lunch, fresh fish for dinner, Belgian waffles for breakfast the next day, Indian food for lunch, and Chinese for dinner. Is there any other country where you'll get similar variety?
Whenever I've visited other countries (notably China, but also Germany/Austria/New Zealand), I've always felt that they were nice places to travel, but I certainly would not want to live there. Well, except New Zealand. I could imagine retiring there, but I'd hate to waste my 20s and 30s there.
Happiness is knowing what you want, going for it, and having the courage to say "Nope, I don't think so" when people tell you you ought to want something else.
And you get the opportunity of living in the U.S. I certainly think this is worth >$1M over a lifetime.
I like living in the U.S. I like having a car, and the associated freedom to take a day trip anywhere in the Bay Area. I like living in a suburban neighborhood where's there's trees and greenery, and yet stores, restaurants, and other conveniences are all nearby. I like being able to work on exactly the same stuff I do for fun and yet get paid for it. I like that I'm surrounded by some of the best & brightest immigrants from around the world in my job. I like my "horrible western diet", which basically consists of being able to eat whatever variety of food I feel like. I can have Mexican for lunch, fresh fish for dinner, Belgian waffles for breakfast the next day, Indian food for lunch, and Chinese for dinner. Is there any other country where you'll get similar variety?
Whenever I've visited other countries (notably China, but also Germany/Austria/New Zealand), I've always felt that they were nice places to travel, but I certainly would not want to live there. Well, except New Zealand. I could imagine retiring there, but I'd hate to waste my 20s and 30s there.
Happiness is knowing what you want, going for it, and having the courage to say "Nope, I don't think so" when people tell you you ought to want something else.
You know, you can have a car in other countries as well. In Jakarta you can have a car and driver for less than the cost of a car in the US.
Personally, I think everyone should live in a different country for at least one (1) year. You'll gain a lot of perspective on your own country in the process. Just like learning another language teaches you more about your native tongue, so living in another country teach you about your own culture. Combine the two (new language, new country) for a serious eye opening.
For example, the Thai language has no words for "yes" or "no". There are no yes/no questions in Thai.
Only after being removed from pervasive US media do you recognize how much hollywood movie content is US centric and self-referential.
Honestly, if you love living in the US, go live somewhere else in the world for one year. You'll either love the US more, or you'll decide that you enjoy living somewhere else more than you anticipated. Either way, you'll have gained invaluable life experience.
Personally, I think everyone should live in a different country for at least one (1) year. You'll gain a lot of perspective on your own country in the process. Just like learning another language teaches you more about your native tongue, so living in another country teach you about your own culture. Combine the two (new language, new country) for a serious eye opening.
For example, the Thai language has no words for "yes" or "no". There are no yes/no questions in Thai.
Only after being removed from pervasive US media do you recognize how much hollywood movie content is US centric and self-referential.
Honestly, if you love living in the US, go live somewhere else in the world for one year. You'll either love the US more, or you'll decide that you enjoy living somewhere else more than you anticipated. Either way, you'll have gained invaluable life experience.
http://www.into-asia.com/thai_language/phrases/basics.php lists Thai words for "yes" and "no", and describes other ways of saying yes or no to a question.
http://www.thaifocus.com/phrases.htm also lists Thai words for "yes" and "no", and inter alia mentions a couple of yes/no questions in Thai.
http://www.peacecorp.gov/wws/multimedia/language/transcripts... seems to indicate that Thai even has a special word whose presence in a sentence indicates a yes/no question.
http://thailanguagehut.com/blog/blog/thai-question-words-so-... has many, many examples of yes/no questions in Thai, and shows how to answer them.
What is the basis for your claim that "there are no yes/no questions in Thai"?
(It does seem that binary questions aren't treated the same way in Thai as they are in English -- the conventions for how you say yes and no are different in different cases -- but it doesn't look at all as if there are "no yes/no questions". For that matter, even in English there are some binary questions to which "yes" and "no" would be peculiar answers. For instance, questions that implicitly make an offer ("Would you like one of these?") usually have to be answered more politely.)
http://www.thaifocus.com/phrases.htm also lists Thai words for "yes" and "no", and inter alia mentions a couple of yes/no questions in Thai.
http://www.peacecorp.gov/wws/multimedia/language/transcripts... seems to indicate that Thai even has a special word whose presence in a sentence indicates a yes/no question.
http://thailanguagehut.com/blog/blog/thai-question-words-so-... has many, many examples of yes/no questions in Thai, and shows how to answer them.
What is the basis for your claim that "there are no yes/no questions in Thai"?
(It does seem that binary questions aren't treated the same way in Thai as they are in English -- the conventions for how you say yes and no are different in different cases -- but it doesn't look at all as if there are "no yes/no questions". For that matter, even in English there are some binary questions to which "yes" and "no" would be peculiar answers. For instance, questions that implicitly make an offer ("Would you like one of these?") usually have to be answered more politely.)
Actually, I speak fluent Thai, there is no word for Yes or No. There is ไม่ which is a negation word, and ใช่ which basically means "correct"/"right", not "yes". The Thai question format is generally:
Q: Hungry? หิวไหม
A: Not hungry. ไม่หิว
A: Hungry. หิว
There are other question indicator words, but the one you're referring to is for "correct or not" type questions, e.g.
Q: This road, right? สอยนี้ใช่ไหม A: Right. ใช่ A: Not right. ไม่ใช่
Alternatively, for a lot of statements you can just respond with the polite ending words, ครับ for men and ค่ะ for women.
The question, "would you like one of these?" in Thai would be, "เอาไหม่"... literally, "want?". The correct response is then either: ไม่เอาครับ or, เอาครับ ... that is the polite form for "do not want", or "want". There is no other way to respond to that question (except without the polite ending).
There are other question indicator words, but the one you're referring to is for "correct or not" type questions, e.g.
Q: This road, right? สอยนี้ใช่ไหม A: Right. ใช่ A: Not right. ไม่ใช่
Alternatively, for a lot of statements you can just respond with the polite ending words, ครับ for men and ค่ะ for women.
The question, "would you like one of these?" in Thai would be, "เอาไหม่"... literally, "want?". The correct response is then either: ไม่เอาครับ or, เอาครับ ... that is the polite form for "do not want", or "want". There is no other way to respond to that question (except without the polite ending).
Those things you describe are all yes/no questions, so it is not true that there are no yes/no questions in Thai. And what you've described are ways to give (for particular classes of question) answers that mean just the same as "yes" or "no" would for the corresponding questions in English.
It's interesting that English has a category (call it "standard binary questions, answerable with yes or no") that doesn't correspond exactly to anything in Thai. But from what you've said it seems entirely wrong to describe that situation by saying that Thai has no yes/no questions.
It's interesting that English has a category (call it "standard binary questions, answerable with yes or no") that doesn't correspond exactly to anything in Thai. But from what you've said it seems entirely wrong to describe that situation by saying that Thai has no yes/no questions.
My wife is Thai, and I manage to speak thai a bit. I took several months of thai lessons. I confirm what has been said before. There is no yes/no word in thai. Those examples on those sites are just bad translation for beginners.
For example the word "chai" that they give for "yes" is more close to "true" when you agree with what has been said.
"Chai" is just a particular answer that can be given to a particular question. You can't use it as a "yes" answer to all question.
For example the word "chai" that they give for "yes" is more close to "true" when you agree with what has been said.
"Chai" is just a particular answer that can be given to a particular question. You can't use it as a "yes" answer to all question.
I actually did live in New Zealand for half a year, and yes, I'd highly recommend this to anyone, if only for the perspective it gives you.
Not all people in the US get to have Google food every day. :)
Pretty harsh to say New Zealanders are wasting their 20s and 30s by staying there.
Pretty harsh to say New Zealanders are wasting their 20s and 30s by staying there.
"New Zealanders are wasting their 20s and 30s"
He didn't say that! He said he wouldn't want to waste his 20s and 30s there. Different people want to do different things with their lives. NZ doesn't suit his chosen 20-to-39 lifestyle.
He didn't say that! He said he wouldn't want to waste his 20s and 30s there. Different people want to do different things with their lives. NZ doesn't suit his chosen 20-to-39 lifestyle.
Local atmosphere > national atmosphere.
Obviously the national laws and economy do play a role, but it's a smaller role then the local economy/politics. Consider rural Kansas, vs. the Bay Area.
The Bay Area is great but you apparently missed out on the great places in Germany/Austria when you visited them.
And it's easy to miss out on the great places, they are few and far between, and they are spread out all over the world.
Obviously the national laws and economy do play a role, but it's a smaller role then the local economy/politics. Consider rural Kansas, vs. the Bay Area.
The Bay Area is great but you apparently missed out on the great places in Germany/Austria when you visited them.
And it's easy to miss out on the great places, they are few and far between, and they are spread out all over the world.
New Zealand is right out for me....giant $%^&ing spiders.
I've considered eastern europe, argentina, spain (cheapest european country supposedly) and singapore.
I've considered eastern europe, argentina, spain (cheapest european country supposedly) and singapore.
What spiders?
These spiders:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/23/giant-spider-kills-...
[edit: see below post, this is australia. My bad. I googled "new zealand giant spider" and got that link. Regardless, NZ has the same spiders.]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/23/giant-spider-kills-...
[edit: see below post, this is australia. My bad. I googled "new zealand giant spider" and got that link. Regardless, NZ has the same spiders.]
That's Australia. But wow!
Holy crap, you need to get out more if you think that the Bay area is somehow magical because you can have a variety of foods, work with smart people and take day trips to fun place.
I live and work here and frankly its no better or worse than many other places I've lived or worked.
I live and work here and frankly its no better or worse than many other places I've lived or worked.
And get paid western wages. If you live in thailand you get paid thailand wages, and thailand connections for the most part, which are locally adjusted for the cost of living downwards.
Living in Thailand doesn't mean you have to work in Thailand. That is the crucial difference...
I live here (Thailand) and do contract work at near western rates. That means I can live for months off the revenue from a single project.
To be fair though, the cost of living in Thailand is higher than the article makes out. Rent is quite high (if you want to live in a good location), and having western food all the time gets expensive. Expect to spend about 30k THB per month on ChefXP and FoodByPhone.
As for a variety of foods, Bangkok is hard to beat. Except for the lack of decent mexican food (Sunrise Taco should be burned down), we have pretty much anything you could want to eat... and it can be delivered to your door w/in 45minutes for less than you'd pay in the US.
Bangkok is a 24hr city. You can get good food any time day or night. There are always things to do no matter what the hour... ผมรักกรูงเทพฯมากๆเลย
I've lived on 4 continents (Africa, N. America, Europe, Asia), and I seriously believe that Thailand is the best country for living.
I live here (Thailand) and do contract work at near western rates. That means I can live for months off the revenue from a single project.
To be fair though, the cost of living in Thailand is higher than the article makes out. Rent is quite high (if you want to live in a good location), and having western food all the time gets expensive. Expect to spend about 30k THB per month on ChefXP and FoodByPhone.
As for a variety of foods, Bangkok is hard to beat. Except for the lack of decent mexican food (Sunrise Taco should be burned down), we have pretty much anything you could want to eat... and it can be delivered to your door w/in 45minutes for less than you'd pay in the US.
Bangkok is a 24hr city. You can get good food any time day or night. There are always things to do no matter what the hour... ผมรักกรูงเทพฯมากๆเลย
I've lived on 4 continents (Africa, N. America, Europe, Asia), and I seriously believe that Thailand is the best country for living.
I can confirm that. Bangkok/Thailand can be both very cheap and extremely expensive, depends on what you eat, how you live. If you adjust your taste to thai food, you can get by pretty cheap, but even if you eat moderately fast food western food here and there like 112 pizza, food court in MBK (has great greek lamb!) toll can get up high pretty fast.
Living in BKK is another story, you can buy a decent house in a decent neighborhood for about 4 mil baht, which is cheap in my book. I have, due to the nature of my work, lived in nearby Salaya and commuted to shooting location and BKK with designated driver, prices of living there (only a 30 minute drive from BKK) are significantly lower than in BKK.
Living in BKK is another story, you can buy a decent house in a decent neighborhood for about 4 mil baht, which is cheap in my book. I have, due to the nature of my work, lived in nearby Salaya and commuted to shooting location and BKK with designated driver, prices of living there (only a 30 minute drive from BKK) are significantly lower than in BKK.
I can testify that is not true. It really depends on what you are working, I have been payed a pretty good sum of money while working there, as well as my Thai buddies - pay was on the level you would expect anywhere in the world for that kind of job. And I have witnessed several foreigners (farangs) that were payed significantly more than their thai counterparts.
Being Thai myself, my general observation is that westerners (farangs) are always paid more than their thai counterparts doing the same job. This has always rubbed me the wrong way. It's like reverse racism almost.
Also although the cost of living CAN be low, if you wanted to live cheaply and save money, you'd have to live like a middle class Thai person. That means no Starbucks (who the heck pays 80 Baht for coffee when you can get REAL thai iced coffee for 5 on the street). Even what we know as fast foods are somewhat middle/upper middle class.
The foreigners I know living in Thailand seem to live a pretty upper class lifestyle here in Thailand because their dollar goes a long way so I'm not sure how much they are saving. Then again, they're not hackers.
Even normal things that middle class westerners are used to could be considered luxury for the middle class Thai. Cable for example is pretty expensive compared to the cost of food and living and so is internet. Travel in the city can be dirt cheap if you stick to public transporation.
So again, you can stretch the dollar if you are willing to be fruga. Then again you can do the same if you choose to live in the states.
Check out this article titled 'An Experiment on Cheap Living from 1872' http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/05/23/an-experiment-i...
Also although the cost of living CAN be low, if you wanted to live cheaply and save money, you'd have to live like a middle class Thai person. That means no Starbucks (who the heck pays 80 Baht for coffee when you can get REAL thai iced coffee for 5 on the street). Even what we know as fast foods are somewhat middle/upper middle class.
The foreigners I know living in Thailand seem to live a pretty upper class lifestyle here in Thailand because their dollar goes a long way so I'm not sure how much they are saving. Then again, they're not hackers.
Even normal things that middle class westerners are used to could be considered luxury for the middle class Thai. Cable for example is pretty expensive compared to the cost of food and living and so is internet. Travel in the city can be dirt cheap if you stick to public transporation.
So again, you can stretch the dollar if you are willing to be fruga. Then again you can do the same if you choose to live in the states.
Check out this article titled 'An Experiment on Cheap Living from 1872' http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/05/23/an-experiment-i...
Starbucks has some of the most disgusting coffee I've ever tasted in my life, if you can call that coffee at all. I have noticed one thing that stood out amongst thais that were payed on pair with farangs, they all have mastered english more or less they can communicate with ease, you probably know that there are not that many people in thailand that have a really good grasp of english (English is not my first language also).
Here is a good article on trying to live on 30k a month. It is a pretty frugal lifestyle actually. Lots of toast for breakfast, not a lot of ordering Au Bon Pain.
http://www.ajarn.com/Banter/30kamonth.htm
http://www.ajarn.com/Banter/30kamonth.htm
Not if you live here (Thailand) and contract for westerm companies.
I am living in Bangkok right now at €500 (euro, ok) a month and before I clicked this I was wondering if it would mention Asia.
You won't believe how many 'old western people' actually live here in Thailand (mostly the coast areas) or Indonesia for that matter.
What do you do for healthcare? Do you have insurance or pay out of pocket?
Health care is ridiculously cheap in Thailand compared to the US. A hospital visit a little outside of Bangkok cost me about 1500 baht ($40), including medication. It was a simple out-patient procedure, but I'm sure it would have been several hundred dollars if I had to pay out of pocket for the same procedure in the US.
Also, prescription medications are fairly cheap and you generally don't need a prescription. I got my allergy medication for $20, which is normally about $60 here if you don't have insurance.
Also, prescription medications are fairly cheap and you generally don't need a prescription. I got my allergy medication for $20, which is normally about $60 here if you don't have insurance.
The above shows how we are being suckered in the US. The requirement of good healthcare in our old age is held over us like a looming axe. The fact that it is so expensive is a subtle form of debt slavery. Personal wealth is basically required of us just to feel safe from dying in squalor.
I have also seen, firsthand, the spectre of death by infection being used as a kind of fortuitous (for healthcare companies) euthanasia (read: cost-cutting method) on infirm and elderly ethnic minorities. My girlfriend's father was pushed into hospice care, even though he was not ready to give up. (He'd been metastatic for 11 years.) The hospice nurses had sloppy anti-infection practices. (My girlfriend's an epidemiologist, so she knows what these are professionally.) There was a week's delay from the first symptoms of infection to getting a prescription for antibiotics filled, and by the time the script was filled, he was barely able to stay conscious to take one dose of the pills. Then there was a refusal to give him intravenous antibiotics, because it was against their procedures, so would need a doctor's permission. By that time, it was Friday evening, and the nurse told us we would've had to wait until Monday to get that permission. In the several days it takes us to figure all this out, the nurse is telling us, "He's actively dying," as if it was the cancer!
The whole thing feels like the time I found a cat with sepsis in its head, took it to the vet, then let them talk me into having them euthanize it. It knew something was up. Started yowling when we made the decision. The saccharine talk from the caregivers was the same -- purporting to be in the patient's best interest when it was really about money.
Then, there's the matter of my grandma, who was an Alzheimer's patient at the end of her life. She also died of an infection. As a youth, she was a waif, a socialite beauty of pre WWII Seoul, and even in her 70s, she was still waifish. She died fat, overfed by redneck nursing home nurses who didn't bother to prevent her bedsores. At first, my family tried to care for her in the home, but she needed to be supervised all the time. She kept on putting water on to boil, then wandering off. My dad's a doctor, a local healthcare insider, and for awhile she got better care because of his attention. He'd visit her every day and make corrections to her care constantly. But you can't keep that up. A week of inattention, and he gets a call that she's dying of an infection with the suggestion that, "it's just better to let her go." I only find out about this years later, when I am desperately calling my dad for advice about my girlfriend's dad and his infection.
I grew up in a small town, and my parents once mentioned there were people muttering about my grandmother getting benefits, because she was a foreigner, despite the fact that my dad was living locally and paying taxes in a high bracket for over 30 years.
More anecdotes, but not infection related:
Another friend of mine, born in England, just over 60, a vigorous woman who volunteered with a local fire department and ran an arts organization full time -- she had to pony up over $10,000 to get attention for a treatable ailment that was going to leave her blind. Apparently it wasn't covered. She'd just gotten her US citizenship two years ago, a day we celebrated, but the whole experience with US healthcare upset her, and for awhile she was talking about leaving and moving back to England.
Yet another friend of mine, a young woman of 25, fell from an atrium balcony. She came from a poor family, but she was basically a saint minus 3 miracles. Her family kept her on a respirator for a week, then let the doctors talk them into pulling the plug. Her loss still haunts me. The whole church was full of people from all walks of life she'd touched. The diversity of people she knew was amazing, and no one was there out of mere politeness. There were also 6 monks there who she sometimes worked with, also in tears. I thought the priest was going to deliver a dry, canned eulogy, but he even got choked up. I suspect if the US didn't have crappy healthcare, that wonderful woman would be in a wheelchair but still with us.
I have also seen, firsthand, the spectre of death by infection being used as a kind of fortuitous (for healthcare companies) euthanasia (read: cost-cutting method) on infirm and elderly ethnic minorities. My girlfriend's father was pushed into hospice care, even though he was not ready to give up. (He'd been metastatic for 11 years.) The hospice nurses had sloppy anti-infection practices. (My girlfriend's an epidemiologist, so she knows what these are professionally.) There was a week's delay from the first symptoms of infection to getting a prescription for antibiotics filled, and by the time the script was filled, he was barely able to stay conscious to take one dose of the pills. Then there was a refusal to give him intravenous antibiotics, because it was against their procedures, so would need a doctor's permission. By that time, it was Friday evening, and the nurse told us we would've had to wait until Monday to get that permission. In the several days it takes us to figure all this out, the nurse is telling us, "He's actively dying," as if it was the cancer!
The whole thing feels like the time I found a cat with sepsis in its head, took it to the vet, then let them talk me into having them euthanize it. It knew something was up. Started yowling when we made the decision. The saccharine talk from the caregivers was the same -- purporting to be in the patient's best interest when it was really about money.
Then, there's the matter of my grandma, who was an Alzheimer's patient at the end of her life. She also died of an infection. As a youth, she was a waif, a socialite beauty of pre WWII Seoul, and even in her 70s, she was still waifish. She died fat, overfed by redneck nursing home nurses who didn't bother to prevent her bedsores. At first, my family tried to care for her in the home, but she needed to be supervised all the time. She kept on putting water on to boil, then wandering off. My dad's a doctor, a local healthcare insider, and for awhile she got better care because of his attention. He'd visit her every day and make corrections to her care constantly. But you can't keep that up. A week of inattention, and he gets a call that she's dying of an infection with the suggestion that, "it's just better to let her go." I only find out about this years later, when I am desperately calling my dad for advice about my girlfriend's dad and his infection.
I grew up in a small town, and my parents once mentioned there were people muttering about my grandmother getting benefits, because she was a foreigner, despite the fact that my dad was living locally and paying taxes in a high bracket for over 30 years.
More anecdotes, but not infection related:
Another friend of mine, born in England, just over 60, a vigorous woman who volunteered with a local fire department and ran an arts organization full time -- she had to pony up over $10,000 to get attention for a treatable ailment that was going to leave her blind. Apparently it wasn't covered. She'd just gotten her US citizenship two years ago, a day we celebrated, but the whole experience with US healthcare upset her, and for awhile she was talking about leaving and moving back to England.
Yet another friend of mine, a young woman of 25, fell from an atrium balcony. She came from a poor family, but she was basically a saint minus 3 miracles. Her family kept her on a respirator for a week, then let the doctors talk them into pulling the plug. Her loss still haunts me. The whole church was full of people from all walks of life she'd touched. The diversity of people she knew was amazing, and no one was there out of mere politeness. There were also 6 monks there who she sometimes worked with, also in tears. I thought the priest was going to deliver a dry, canned eulogy, but he even got choked up. I suspect if the US didn't have crappy healthcare, that wonderful woman would be in a wheelchair but still with us.
telcos and healthcare are two heavily regulated industries with artificially high barriers to entry in the US. thus the providers jack costs WAY up because they can. We're too dumb to put up a fuss. the average person's response? we need more regulation. yeah, make it impossible for startups to compete in the industry, that'll drive prices down.
How do we encourage healthcare startups?
At one point in time, the HMO pioneer Group Health was a startup of a sort.
One never hears about someone going bankrupt from paying for medical care in Japan. They have a lot of regulations on what you can charge for health care.
At one point in time, the HMO pioneer Group Health was a startup of a sort.
One never hears about someone going bankrupt from paying for medical care in Japan. They have a lot of regulations on what you can charge for health care.
by allowing people to make whatever contracts they want with their doctors instead of state mandated contracts.
Do you feel like either of these are true:
1. You are currently barred by the state from doing this.
2. Your negotiating power as an individual is greater than that of the private insurance companies who are already doing this?
You can complain all you like about the cost of healthcare, but I think it's economics not legislation that is preventing you from getting a better rate.
1. You are currently barred by the state from doing this.
2. Your negotiating power as an individual is greater than that of the private insurance companies who are already doing this?
You can complain all you like about the cost of healthcare, but I think it's economics not legislation that is preventing you from getting a better rate.
Concerning 1), many useful practices which would lower cost are barred by the state.
Some states (e.g. NY) ban catastrophic-only health insurance.
All states ban me from self-medicating (which is actually not very hard to do for simple illnesses). I'm also barred from buying lab tests without first paying a doctor for permission.
Women are required to pay a doctor for permission to buy birth control.
I'm banned from visiting someone with less training than a doctor to receive treatment for simple ailments.
Of course, I'll be the first to admit that Baumol's cost disease plays an important role too, as well as higher costs for newer treatments.
Some states (e.g. NY) ban catastrophic-only health insurance.
All states ban me from self-medicating (which is actually not very hard to do for simple illnesses). I'm also barred from buying lab tests without first paying a doctor for permission.
Women are required to pay a doctor for permission to buy birth control.
I'm banned from visiting someone with less training than a doctor to receive treatment for simple ailments.
Of course, I'll be the first to admit that Baumol's cost disease plays an important role too, as well as higher costs for newer treatments.
I forgot entirely about self medication for simple ailments. I had to get penicillin on the down low when I contracted scarlet fever.
The easy problems in medicine are vastly easier than programming. You don't need a doctor to solve them for you, all you need is his permission to implement the well known solution.
If you have an Iranian girlfriend, all you need is for her to smuggle you bootleg medicine when she visits her family. That's what I did.
(Yes, Iran has more medical freedom than the us.)
If you have an Iranian girlfriend, all you need is for her to smuggle you bootleg medicine when she visits her family. That's what I did.
(Yes, Iran has more medical freedom than the us.)
wont let me reply...
umm if economics are preventing me from getting a better deal why isn't healthcare equally expensive in other countries?
the government regulates who can get a medical license, an artificially low supply of doctors is generated.
the government regulates who can provide insurance and guidelines for what sorts of coverages are acceptable preventing competition.
the government regulates doctor's malpractice insurance, preventing me from entering into contracts where I waive my right to sue.
read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Competition-Second-Holding-Hea...
umm if economics are preventing me from getting a better deal why isn't healthcare equally expensive in other countries?
the government regulates who can get a medical license, an artificially low supply of doctors is generated.
the government regulates who can provide insurance and guidelines for what sorts of coverages are acceptable preventing competition.
the government regulates doctor's malpractice insurance, preventing me from entering into contracts where I waive my right to sue.
read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Competition-Second-Holding-Hea...
I had a flu last year while in Thailand. I went to Bamrungrad hospital (google it, look at the pictures!) - total payed for visit to the doctor and medications, 1200 baht (35$). That IS cheap, no matter where from are you. People come there from other countries just because service is good and cheap.
That is actually not that cheap when you come from europe or japan (doctor + medecine would be about the same)
But yes Bumrungrad is impressive and service is good...
But yes Bumrungrad is impressive and service is good...
Where in Europe would you get doctor and medicine for cheap like that if you didn't have social medical plan? Only a routine examination costs double that amount in most of european countries if you don't have medical insurance.
I still have my Dutch health and extended travel-insurance; besides that I have a work permit here and insurance of the company I work for. So that's like double safe.
But yeah, it is ridiculously cheap; just had a blood and regular check up last week for 300 baht (~$9, ~€6)
But yeah, it is ridiculously cheap; just had a blood and regular check up last week for 300 baht (~$9, ~€6)
Will be curious to see his answer but health care standards are high (if you can pay) and, compared to Western rates, ridiculously affordable in Thailand.
I would be more convinced by someone writing about how they'd done this than how they planned to.
I do it. My base expenses are less than $500 / month in the Philippines.
10,000 furnished apartment. ~5,000 food ~2,500 visa ~1,300 internet ~1,200 electricity
Total: 20,000 / 47.5 = $421
I'm probably forgetting some things. There are misc expenses which would bring me up to the $500.
That's not to say I actually live here for that though. Those are my actual expenses and I can get by with just those but I choose to have a little more fun. Beer is really cheap here but it adds up if you go out a lot. A 1/4 lb McD's meal is 135 pesos, so your expenses go up if you eat out a lot.
You can nearly cut that rent fee in half if you go for an unfurnished apartment but you have to pay more initially to put in your own furnishing.
You won't be traveling on a budget that low but you have to leave the country once every 16 months (I think) for a visa run if you are on a tourist visa.
Another big one is taxes. So if you are running your own business then you have to make $500 / month after taxes.
I would say that $750 is a pretty decent figure for a single person not living high on the hog. As the article mentions, for $4,000 / month you can live like a king.
Anything I'm forgetting?
ETA: This is for Dumaguete in the Philippines. Cebu is more expensive and Manila is more expensive than Cebu.
ETA2: I didn't add local travel expenses because if you stay in Dumaguete for a decent amount of time you might as well buy a motorcycle for around PHP 40,000. Gas is cheap because you don't use much. Dumaguete has banned taxis so your only option is a trike which typically costs a total of PHP 60 to go downtown and back.
10,000 furnished apartment. ~5,000 food ~2,500 visa ~1,300 internet ~1,200 electricity
Total: 20,000 / 47.5 = $421
I'm probably forgetting some things. There are misc expenses which would bring me up to the $500.
That's not to say I actually live here for that though. Those are my actual expenses and I can get by with just those but I choose to have a little more fun. Beer is really cheap here but it adds up if you go out a lot. A 1/4 lb McD's meal is 135 pesos, so your expenses go up if you eat out a lot.
You can nearly cut that rent fee in half if you go for an unfurnished apartment but you have to pay more initially to put in your own furnishing.
You won't be traveling on a budget that low but you have to leave the country once every 16 months (I think) for a visa run if you are on a tourist visa.
Another big one is taxes. So if you are running your own business then you have to make $500 / month after taxes.
I would say that $750 is a pretty decent figure for a single person not living high on the hog. As the article mentions, for $4,000 / month you can live like a king.
Anything I'm forgetting?
ETA: This is for Dumaguete in the Philippines. Cebu is more expensive and Manila is more expensive than Cebu.
ETA2: I didn't add local travel expenses because if you stay in Dumaguete for a decent amount of time you might as well buy a motorcycle for around PHP 40,000. Gas is cheap because you don't use much. Dumaguete has banned taxis so your only option is a trike which typically costs a total of PHP 60 to go downtown and back.
/You won't be traveling on a budget that low but you have to leave the country once every 16 months (I think) for a visa run if you are on a tourist visa./
I have a different experience: I am from Finland. Tourist visa when entering the Philippines is valid for only 3 weeks, after which it can be extended for 1 month, and after that for 2 months. The 2 month extension costs 4700 PHP.
Might be different for other nationalities but Finns usually get quite good deals on visas.
I have a different experience: I am from Finland. Tourist visa when entering the Philippines is valid for only 3 weeks, after which it can be extended for 1 month, and after that for 2 months. The 2 month extension costs 4700 PHP.
Might be different for other nationalities but Finns usually get quite good deals on visas.
Same with U.S. residents. But the cost of the visa seems to be different every time I get one. I just budget around $40 - $50 / month for it. You can extend for 16 months I believe, but you can actually extend through Manila for up to 24 months. Again, not totally sure about that as I haven't been here long enough to worry about it (going on my 7th month) but that is what I have been told. Also, things change all the time.
Doing it in Thailand (have been for almost 5 years):
rent: 90 euro, car: 65 euro, food/drinks: 300 euro, visa: 10 euro, health insurance: 15 euro, other: 50 euro
Me and my girlfriend life a very comfortable lifestyle and we really don't cut back that much; eating out here is cheap (as long as you stay away from tourist spots) and we take regular short trips around Thailand and other parts of south east asia.
rent: 90 euro, car: 65 euro, food/drinks: 300 euro, visa: 10 euro, health insurance: 15 euro, other: 50 euro
Me and my girlfriend life a very comfortable lifestyle and we really don't cut back that much; eating out here is cheap (as long as you stay away from tourist spots) and we take regular short trips around Thailand and other parts of south east asia.
How do you handle visa? Are you on a tourist visa, working over the internet?
Nope, no tourist visa. I am staying on one-year non-immigrant visa's (multiple entry, usually type O). This requires me to go back home (The Netherlands) at least once a year and get a new one.
Getting a work permit is a bit tricky since I am not employed by a Thai company (requirement). The only other option is to setup my own company here which right away brings loads of administrative headaches with it (been down that road and got out rather quick).
Getting a work permit is a bit tricky since I am not employed by a Thai company (requirement). The only other option is to setup my own company here which right away brings loads of administrative headaches with it (been down that road and got out rather quick).
Check out http://locationindependent.com/blog/ - written by a couple that are "still travelling between some of their favourite countries including Thailand, South Africa and the Caribbean"
The funny thing to me about this article is I am already living in a country where you can live reasonably well with 500$/mo (I born and live in Venezuela). But you know what? This cheap third world country is a big piece of shit because of its political situation (Chavez).
So, from my point of view, I am just planning how to leave my country. But move to another third world country?? No way man... I would prefer to live in a expensive first world country and work as developer/codemonkey/entrepreneur/whatever.
So, if you choose to "retire" to a cheap third world country, check its political situation and background. Now, if you just don't care to be rescued by UN blue helmets when shit hits the fan, just be my guest...
So, from my point of view, I am just planning how to leave my country. But move to another third world country?? No way man... I would prefer to live in a expensive first world country and work as developer/codemonkey/entrepreneur/whatever.
So, if you choose to "retire" to a cheap third world country, check its political situation and background. Now, if you just don't care to be rescued by UN blue helmets when shit hits the fan, just be my guest...
How exactly does one make six percent a month from safe investments?
six percent a month
Six percent annually.
That said, it is a fantasy, unless you intend on your retirement getting cut short by death prior to you exhausting your money. The standard recommendation for someone who is much older (i.e. can rely on death to moot insolvency with greater probability) is that the safe withdraw rate is 4%.
With a withdraw rate of 4% and a standard mix of stocks and bonds you can be fairly confident that, assuming the future looks something like the past, you will not run out of money within your lifetime. (Most people will in fact see their money "go infinite", i.e. their portfolio expands faster than their withdraw rate and when they eventually pass away their heirs and government get to toast their name quite a bit. However, the prudent investor doesn't plan on being "most people", they plan on being the unlucky sod who bought at the top and sold at the bottom.)
Six percent annually.
That said, it is a fantasy, unless you intend on your retirement getting cut short by death prior to you exhausting your money. The standard recommendation for someone who is much older (i.e. can rely on death to moot insolvency with greater probability) is that the safe withdraw rate is 4%.
With a withdraw rate of 4% and a standard mix of stocks and bonds you can be fairly confident that, assuming the future looks something like the past, you will not run out of money within your lifetime. (Most people will in fact see their money "go infinite", i.e. their portfolio expands faster than their withdraw rate and when they eventually pass away their heirs and government get to toast their name quite a bit. However, the prudent investor doesn't plan on being "most people", they plan on being the unlucky sod who bought at the top and sold at the bottom.)
Consider the context. He's not talking about an invulnerable plan for when you can no longer work. He's just sort of playing with numbers to see if you can live without a job by being somewhere heap & what that would look like.
Some of the applications sound a lot more like a careers break, vacation, or a few years off to volunteer.
Naturally, you'd need to consider how much you need, what are acceptable risk & such depending on your application.
His high low estimates for how much you need also vary almost 7/1.
Some of the applications sound a lot more like a careers break, vacation, or a few years off to volunteer.
Naturally, you'd need to consider how much you need, what are acceptable risk & such depending on your application.
His high low estimates for how much you need also vary almost 7/1.
And let's not overlook that it's 4% before taxes. So in reality, closer to 3%
capital gains aren't taxed @ 25%.
minus inflation...
Inflation gets figured into the withdrawal rates - you subtract the inflation rate from your nominal return to figure your real rate of return, and then the real rate is whatever passive income you have available to live on. I'm guessing that the 4% withdrawal figure is calculated by figuring a 7% average nominal return (seems to be a common historical number for balanced portfolios), subtracting 3% inflation, and the remainder is a 4% real return. So you can pull out 4% of your portfolio each year and have it maintain the same real value, after inflation.
A 7% average return would require more exposure to volatile assets (like equities) than is prudent for those investing for over a potentially short time like retirement. One must also consider morbidity risk, currency risk and interest rate risk.
I think it is most prudent for non-investing professionals who want to live this life to buy two annuities, one denominated in the currency of their home country and the other denominated in the currency of their new country.
I think it is most prudent for non-investing professionals who want to live this life to buy two annuities, one denominated in the currency of their home country and the other denominated in the currency of their new country.
Annuities have counter-party risks...
This is true. But would you trust the average retiree to shrewdly manage their money over the average highly regulated AAA rated insurance company?
Long treasuries will get you over 4 percent right now,
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=tlt
...that's as safe you'll get.
Insured munis at 5
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=pza
Emerging at 6
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=emb
Junk at 13
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=jnk
Mix and match.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=tlt
...that's as safe you'll get.
Insured munis at 5
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=pza
Emerging at 6
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=emb
Junk at 13
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=jnk
Mix and match.
That's 4% nominal returns though - you have to subtract inflation from that. TIPS are going for less than 2% yield.
For 3% inflation, you need 7% nominal returns to make 4%. You're already into pretty risky territory there.
For 3% inflation, you need 7% nominal returns to make 4%. You're already into pretty risky territory there.
The biggest problem with the 6% figure is that it ignores inflationary pressure. If you're stuck with extremely low risk investments (as you are once retired), you should really be looking at levels around 1 to 2% over inflation. At 2% over inflation (long term rate around 5%), withdrawing 6% annually (growing the withdrawal amount to keep up with inflation), you'll only last about 20 years, assuming no mishaps. Withdrawing 4%, the commonly recommended value, lasts more like 35 years; the average American retirement isn't that long, but it has a significant increase in expenses at the end.
"you'll only last about 20 years" 20 years is long enough to take on a fair amount of diversified risk, which up's your return, which let's you take on more risk etc.
Also a 60 - 40 stock/bond is actually safer than a pure bond portfolio because of inflationary risks and has a higher expected return over 10+ years. The only real trick is to avoid single investments, be they a stock or an industry.
Also a 60 - 40 stock/bond is actually safer than a pure bond portfolio because of inflationary risks and has a higher expected return over 10+ years. The only real trick is to avoid single investments, be they a stock or an industry.
Until recently that was close to the interest rate from a basic savings account in Australia.
One doesn't. The article suggests 6% annually.
That's currently a slight stretch given interest rates in most OECD nations, but definitely achievable without effort over a longer term (eg, 6% pa for 10 years).
That's currently a slight stretch given interest rates in most OECD nations, but definitely achievable without effort over a longer term (eg, 6% pa for 10 years).
Yeah, as many have pointed out, I meant per year. Still a fantasy.
wait... live comfortably on 2,000 a month, and live on 4,000 a month as a king?
Heck, I live on around 3,000 a month (after fairly aggressive savings by American standards) in a middle sized city and it's very comfortable. I could live comfortably on 2,000 a month if I wasn't working! (That's for one, mind you.)
Heck, I live on around 3,000 a month (after fairly aggressive savings by American standards) in a middle sized city and it's very comfortable. I could live comfortably on 2,000 a month if I wasn't working! (That's for one, mind you.)
Well, 4k USD per month is ~130k THB. The purchasing power of the Baht means that that is about equivalent to ~10k USD. (As an example, a can of Coke costs 12 THB in a 7/11).
130k will buy you a lot of luxury in Thailand. You can get a very good condo for 30k per month. You can each out for every meal of every day for about 1.5k per diem, so 45k for food. That still leaves 55k for spending on going out, buying clothes, utilities, gadgets, etc. etc. That is more than "comfortable".
Even 70k per month is more than enough for a very comfortable lifestyle. Local food costs < 100 THB per meal, so you could eat for less than 300 THB per day. A reasonable condo is only 20k if you're willing to live away from the tourist areas.
130k will buy you a lot of luxury in Thailand. You can get a very good condo for 30k per month. You can each out for every meal of every day for about 1.5k per diem, so 45k for food. That still leaves 55k for spending on going out, buying clothes, utilities, gadgets, etc. etc. That is more than "comfortable".
Even 70k per month is more than enough for a very comfortable lifestyle. Local food costs < 100 THB per meal, so you could eat for less than 300 THB per day. A reasonable condo is only 20k if you're willing to live away from the tourist areas.
I'm curious about safety. I know this is probably an exaggeration based on too much media exposure, but my impression is that some of these places have high rates of kidnapping and the like. And it seems that if you were a westerner, especially if you were old, you'd stand out as a target.
It seems like there is a lot of BKK based people here. Anyone want to meet up for a beer?
jim.farang gmail.com
jim.farang gmail.com
> and you made 6% annually from safe investments
6% and "safe" these days does not sound doable.
6% and "safe" these days does not sound doable.
Why would you want to live in a place with a lesser standard of living than US?
Standard of living isn't everything. One of the best times of my life was in China, lifting weights, hiking up mountains, spending nights in temples, drinking tea, and meeting local people some of whom had never seen a white person before.
If you've never spent 3+ weeks in a country that's very different economically/socially than your own, I'd recommend it. You might like it, might not. I've had mixed experiences with different countries. I quite enjoyed China and Malaysia, Eastern Europe not so much.
But we all have different tastes - there's a meme in the USA that it's the "greatest country in the world" - I reject the notion that there is a greatest country in the world. Just different places for different people at different times in their lives.
If you've never spent 3+ weeks in a country that's very different economically/socially than your own, I'd recommend it. You might like it, might not. I've had mixed experiences with different countries. I quite enjoyed China and Malaysia, Eastern Europe not so much.
But we all have different tastes - there's a meme in the USA that it's the "greatest country in the world" - I reject the notion that there is a greatest country in the world. Just different places for different people at different times in their lives.
there's a meme in the USA that it's the "greatest country in the world"
There's the same meme in India, and perhaps in other countries too. It is a bit silly to think like that, especially when most people haven't really travelled to many countries. I used to think the same but once I started travelling my views changed. Definitely worth a try.
There's the same meme in India, and perhaps in other countries too. It is a bit silly to think like that, especially when most people haven't really travelled to many countries. I used to think the same but once I started travelling my views changed. Definitely worth a try.
[deleted]
How much did it cost you for how many weeks in China?
Lessee... first trip to Asia was... 2005? 2006? 4 weeks in China. Spending money like it was going out of style.
I had a gym membership for a month with infinite personal training before 6PM ($12.50/month, high end gym), got a Thai-style massage probably 3 times a week ($7.50/hour, came with silver needle tea and large plate of fresh fruit), traveled a bit in Sichuan (short bus ride - 22 cents, longer one - under $10), saw pandas ($20 for a daytrip, everything included), shot a repeating crossbow ($1 or so), and bought an entire year's worth of clothing and a beautiful red leather suitcase (suitcase was most expensive thing I bought, $100 USD). I bought tons of gifts for family and friends, a set kangxi knives (swords), some crafts, and such. Total cost for all of that was under $100.
Total cost? Maybe $700? That includes all the shopping and luxuries, doesn't include air and lodging. I leave out air because I had a multi-stop ticket, but I think airfare was $1300 or so from Boston. Lodging in China is as cheap or expensive as you want. $40/night provides spectacular, though I had free lodging in a few places.
I ran the math a bunch, and told everyone who'll listen: If you're going to spend $2000 or more on clothing in the next 2 years (common for people who buy suits, for instance), it'd be cheaper to take a two week vacation to China or South America and get top quality and sometimes beautifully hand-made things than it would be to buy them in the USA. I only had one guy ever try my idea and report back, and he told me of getting shirts that'd retail at $100+ in the USA for $15 max, perfectly tailored jeans from scratch for $20, and top top notch suits for under $100. I think he overpaid - I got 3-4 pairs of shoes in China, nice leather shoes, $5 was the most I paid. USD has taken a bit of a hit since then, but I reckon it's still dirt cheap. I was in Chengdu mostly, great place with great people. Take antacids if you're going to eat the food though!
I had a gym membership for a month with infinite personal training before 6PM ($12.50/month, high end gym), got a Thai-style massage probably 3 times a week ($7.50/hour, came with silver needle tea and large plate of fresh fruit), traveled a bit in Sichuan (short bus ride - 22 cents, longer one - under $10), saw pandas ($20 for a daytrip, everything included), shot a repeating crossbow ($1 or so), and bought an entire year's worth of clothing and a beautiful red leather suitcase (suitcase was most expensive thing I bought, $100 USD). I bought tons of gifts for family and friends, a set kangxi knives (swords), some crafts, and such. Total cost for all of that was under $100.
Total cost? Maybe $700? That includes all the shopping and luxuries, doesn't include air and lodging. I leave out air because I had a multi-stop ticket, but I think airfare was $1300 or so from Boston. Lodging in China is as cheap or expensive as you want. $40/night provides spectacular, though I had free lodging in a few places.
I ran the math a bunch, and told everyone who'll listen: If you're going to spend $2000 or more on clothing in the next 2 years (common for people who buy suits, for instance), it'd be cheaper to take a two week vacation to China or South America and get top quality and sometimes beautifully hand-made things than it would be to buy them in the USA. I only had one guy ever try my idea and report back, and he told me of getting shirts that'd retail at $100+ in the USA for $15 max, perfectly tailored jeans from scratch for $20, and top top notch suits for under $100. I think he overpaid - I got 3-4 pairs of shoes in China, nice leather shoes, $5 was the most I paid. USD has taken a bit of a hit since then, but I reckon it's still dirt cheap. I was in Chengdu mostly, great place with great people. Take antacids if you're going to eat the food though!
really interesting stuff. you should consider writing up your experience. I'm going to show my friends your post.
There are some elements of standard of living which are measurable, such as services, infrastructure and other things. But some elements are can't be measured and are up to the preferences of the individual. I can still be happy in the Philippines with an otherwise lower standard of living. If you get the opportunity to live abroad, do it.
How much money do most of us flush on rent, cars, overpriced houses, and other things. If you add it up over 10-15 years the opportunity cost of living in the US is over $1M for most people.
All that so that we can eat a horrible western diet, watch cable news, and work for prestigious firms in hopes of retiring at 70.