South African Dept of Education effectively bans FOSS(dkeats.com)
dkeats.com
South African Dept of Education effectively bans FOSS
http://dkeats.com/index.php?module=blog&action=viewsingle&postid=gen21Srv8Nme0_40332_1381256759&userid=7050120123
12 comments
Yes indeed, the freedom to chose a F/OSS alternative in a environment where software is 60-70% of the TCO of a PC, is a BAD thing because learning isn't in the job description of teachers.
I do disagree with this oft regurgitated anecdotal (sorry in advance) shite :-P
I do disagree with this oft regurgitated anecdotal (sorry in advance) shite :-P
"I do disagree with this oft regurgitated anecdotal (sorry in advance) shite :-P"
"A long time ago, in a country I won't name, I was contracted to provide..."
:P
"A long time ago, in a country I won't name, I was contracted to provide..."
:P
I think you'd need to cite other examples of me, specifically, relating that story to qualify it "as oft regurgitated" and anecdotal, and as my anecdote doesn't set out to present the case for less choice being good, I'd argue relevance :)
An alternative to Delphi? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_(software)
made me as angry as I have ever been in my life
Wow - if the author has lived a life where software limitations are the greatest injustice experienced, then I am truly jealous.
Wow - if the author has lived a life where software limitations are the greatest injustice experienced, then I am truly jealous.
No, I think he's mad about the blatant corruption behind the decision. Our government does't even hide it anymore.
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The title makes this out to be worse than it actually is: SA didn't actually ban all software under permissive licenses, but requires the use of non-free software to complete its courses. Though I'm not extremely in-tune with SA politics/education, I can't imagine they have much money, making it all the stranger that they'd lock themselves into licensing with Microsoft instead of using free software.
Re the title: yes, and no. At first glance it seems alarmist, but if you take into account the wider implications (no exposure to free alternatives, extra cost to a population mired in poverty, and general lack of exposure to IT for large parts of the population), it's not too far from the truth.
Funding for the education department has been increased drastically over the last decade or so, but misappropriation of funds, mismanagement, corruption, ineptitude, geographical separation, lack of proper oversight, and just the sheer pressure on the system in terms of the amount of learners it needs to support means this is just another thing that reduces the value for the learners from tax money.
Funding for the education department has been increased drastically over the last decade or so, but misappropriation of funds, mismanagement, corruption, ineptitude, geographical separation, lack of proper oversight, and just the sheer pressure on the system in terms of the amount of learners it needs to support means this is just another thing that reduces the value for the learners from tax money.
I had to drill into the PDF linked from the article to learn that SA (in this case) refers to the Republic of South Africa.
My bad...I only realised a few minutes ago it could be South Australia (and definitely a few others) too...
Why don't anyone listen to rms ? http://www.gnu.org/education/education.html
How do you listen to him after gems like this: "Free Software supports education, proprietary software forbids education"?
You know what? I got my education without software free or proprietary. I also saw many getting education and knowledge using proprietary software. Does Internet Explorer ban you from going to wikipedia or coursera? Heck, I even educated myself about free and open source software using Windows.
Model of the world where FOSS is at the center of the universe and rms is the brightest star in it is hardly correct.
The more time that goes by, the more I agree with RMS (and the less crazy he seems)...
As an IT professional that has lived in RSA and several other countries in the region, I have to say this is absolutely common place.
Local industry giants with preferred partner/solution provider status with <INSERT GIANT CORP HERE> will lobby and get F/OSS solutions knocked out of the running especially where public tenders are involved. They will of course then use the corrupt officials co-opted into this process to milk the budget for absurdly expensive solutions to non-existent problems.
A long time ago, in a country I won't name, I was contracted to provide local support for the installations of PCs in rural schools. Upon turning up at the regional center, I had access to a warehouse with a gigantic stack of PCs to be delivered. I merrily went about installing them at every school locally. I've never had more fun or a better challenge, every installation was unique. One site needed a full solar installation because of proximity to a township where power theft was rampant meant electricity on the schools side was virtually never available. At another site, I teamed up with a local carpenter to build 30 simple desks and benches, leaving the hardware sitting on bare concrete floors seemed absurd. For seven months this went on, I never saw another contractor doing the same as I did, yet the pile of PCs diminished so I assumed there must be several others. I queried to find out who they were so we could coordinate, I didn't want to spend hours driving to a site only to find they'd already been. That never happened and I never did get a response.
The problems begun when it came to more remote areas. Firstly there was significantly more hardware per student allocated for the rural areas, than urban areas, which was puzzling. Secondly I was not permitted to go and install them, I was told my fuel expenses wouldn't be covered. When I offered to waive those, I was told there was no point, because they would require upgrades shortly. The vendor advised we leave them another two months and they would have the service packs rolled out in the central storage site, then the hardware could be delivered. Their stated intention was to save the local govt money. How very noble. Over the course of the next month, that pile of undeliverable hardware diminished significantly as the various people from the purchasing process cashed in by selling it to local vendors on the cheap, some of it was probably re-exported. Who knows. Nobody cares, there was no investigation, that was over a decade ago - the entire process has probably repeated several times since then.
It's absurd. It's arrogant. It's corrupt. It's ultimately detrimental to everybody involved and robs the most desperate of a resource that just might have lifted them out of poverty. It's Africa. Sorry for the ramble, I never can just explain how much I love and hate that place.
Edit: spellin'
Local industry giants with preferred partner/solution provider status with <INSERT GIANT CORP HERE> will lobby and get F/OSS solutions knocked out of the running especially where public tenders are involved. They will of course then use the corrupt officials co-opted into this process to milk the budget for absurdly expensive solutions to non-existent problems.
A long time ago, in a country I won't name, I was contracted to provide local support for the installations of PCs in rural schools. Upon turning up at the regional center, I had access to a warehouse with a gigantic stack of PCs to be delivered. I merrily went about installing them at every school locally. I've never had more fun or a better challenge, every installation was unique. One site needed a full solar installation because of proximity to a township where power theft was rampant meant electricity on the schools side was virtually never available. At another site, I teamed up with a local carpenter to build 30 simple desks and benches, leaving the hardware sitting on bare concrete floors seemed absurd. For seven months this went on, I never saw another contractor doing the same as I did, yet the pile of PCs diminished so I assumed there must be several others. I queried to find out who they were so we could coordinate, I didn't want to spend hours driving to a site only to find they'd already been. That never happened and I never did get a response.
The problems begun when it came to more remote areas. Firstly there was significantly more hardware per student allocated for the rural areas, than urban areas, which was puzzling. Secondly I was not permitted to go and install them, I was told my fuel expenses wouldn't be covered. When I offered to waive those, I was told there was no point, because they would require upgrades shortly. The vendor advised we leave them another two months and they would have the service packs rolled out in the central storage site, then the hardware could be delivered. Their stated intention was to save the local govt money. How very noble. Over the course of the next month, that pile of undeliverable hardware diminished significantly as the various people from the purchasing process cashed in by selling it to local vendors on the cheap, some of it was probably re-exported. Who knows. Nobody cares, there was no investigation, that was over a decade ago - the entire process has probably repeated several times since then.
It's absurd. It's arrogant. It's corrupt. It's ultimately detrimental to everybody involved and robs the most desperate of a resource that just might have lifted them out of poverty. It's Africa. Sorry for the ramble, I never can just explain how much I love and hate that place.
Edit: spellin'
This is why I always urge people to consider private charity whenever possible, and always ask for accountability.... Of course, government also decides who's allowed to operate tax-free charities, so the market smells.
The government will always do whatever they can for the appropriate campaign favours, a politician or official gives absolutely no care as to how the programs continue after their term, since it doesn't matter; this works especially well when you can tack expenses onto a debt rather than stealing more immediately.
The government will always do whatever they can for the appropriate campaign favours, a politician or official gives absolutely no care as to how the programs continue after their term, since it doesn't matter; this works especially well when you can tack expenses onto a debt rather than stealing more immediately.
Unless the charity actually operates their own direct distribution outlet in the target country, let me bust your bubble: all that donated gear? It gets sold.
Go to any township market in any Southern African nation you like, those clothes being sold? Go ask them to buy the tarpaulins they were bound in, I guarantee you three things: they'll be blue, the logo will feature a laurel wreathe encircling a globe, and the first two letters will be U and N. You'll probably have noticed them already because many stalls in the market will be using them for roofing.
Go to any township market in any Southern African nation you like, those clothes being sold? Go ask them to buy the tarpaulins they were bound in, I guarantee you three things: they'll be blue, the logo will feature a laurel wreathe encircling a globe, and the first two letters will be U and N. You'll probably have noticed them already because many stalls in the market will be using them for roofing.
Right, thus the accountability bit.
Most distribution of goodies intended for those who can't get ahold of them ends up with yet another theft and pawning, regardless of where the goodies come from and how they're distributed.
Of course, UN involvement brings brothels along with the tarps.
Do you know of any charities which actually offer direct distribution?
Of course, UN involvement brings brothels along with the tarps.
Do you know of any charities which actually offer direct distribution?
I don't believe in aid or charity in the "give away something in return for a tingly sensation of benevolence" sense. That accomplishes nothing, it increases corruption and lets the donor off with the impression that they've accomplished something that they haven't.
That said, there're some who make it work. The names escape me (it was long ago) but I've always been impressed with the work of some of the missionaries in the region - they're actually on the ground effecting change and helping people. From what I've seen they tend to avoid unilateral donation/collections, but go in for the specifics. For instance, the school I installed the 30 desks at, they donated virtually all the classroom equipment and props along with an instructor to help local teachers integrate the new material into their classes. As I understand it the financing for all that came from donations through collections in their churches. Now whilst I'm an atheist, that impressed me. The peacecorps too, I've met a lot of them and their hearts are definitely in the right place.
That said, there're some who make it work. The names escape me (it was long ago) but I've always been impressed with the work of some of the missionaries in the region - they're actually on the ground effecting change and helping people. From what I've seen they tend to avoid unilateral donation/collections, but go in for the specifics. For instance, the school I installed the 30 desks at, they donated virtually all the classroom equipment and props along with an instructor to help local teachers integrate the new material into their classes. As I understand it the financing for all that came from donations through collections in their churches. Now whilst I'm an atheist, that impressed me. The peacecorps too, I've met a lot of them and their hearts are definitely in the right place.
Sounds about right. For every such thing that the media gets hold of (till we get the state information protection thing, anyway), I often wonder how many more (of lesser and greater magnitude) go undetected.
Typically media will directly reject stories which reflect poorly on government, and especially regarding programs which are big PR for the current regime.
I think the SA media is a bit more independant than that? (apart from stuff owned by the Guptas of course).
I don't think so. http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2013/09/south-africas-rulin...
while the south african govt say they support oss and all gov departments ahouod be using it, in practice they hardley ever implement oss. there is actually a project on git hub to use information access laws to perform a ln audit on the use of oss
Using MS office makes sense, since majority of businesses use MS office.
Though I would question the use of delphi, someone else posted that delphi is popular in South Africa. As one, I disagree most of the code still being written in delphi is mostly legacy code.
The delphi dev shops have since moved on to .net for e.g my first job was a co that used delphi.
one of the biggest users of delphi in za (mr price) , now mostly do their dev in .net
I think a language like python or ruby would be a much better option.
Using MS office makes sense, since majority of businesses use MS office.
Though I would question the use of delphi, someone else posted that delphi is popular in South Africa. As one, I disagree most of the code still being written in delphi is mostly legacy code.
The delphi dev shops have since moved on to .net for e.g my first job was a co that used delphi.
one of the biggest users of delphi in za (mr price) , now mostly do their dev in .net
I think a language like python or ruby would be a much better option.
Sorry about the repeat post. Posted from one of the mobile apps seemed to have messed up somehow.
Delphi… Delphi? Delphi?!?!
I am really having trouble understanding how anyone could choose Delphi without some sort of corruption going on.
Turbo C++ (like, the DOS-based IDE from 1994) is still the compiler of choice in many Indian universities.
Turbo Pascal was the standard when I was in high school (matriculated in 98). No idea what has been used in the interrim, although the article makes it look like Java, among other things. If this hadn't been the case, I could understand Delphi, but it makes very little sense now.
Pascal is a pretty good teaching language, Java is hopelessly complex. Delphi is too bloated for intro stuff. Simple, featureless, procedural languages that are not C are pretty good for beginners.
It is worth noting that Pascal was originally intended as an extremely portable language to teach structured programming. It was only later that people began actually using it for real stuff.
The key to its portability was that it shipped with an interpreter that would run under a simple bytecode machine. Implement that bytecode and you could run Pascal on virtually anything. Back in 1970, this was a pretty useful feature.
The key to its portability was that it shipped with an interpreter that would run under a simple bytecode machine. Implement that bytecode and you could run Pascal on virtually anything. Back in 1970, this was a pretty useful feature.
I'd be tempted to agree, but in that case you can even look at things like VB (in whichever flavour). You would need to somehow keep the subjects relevant to the current environment too, otherwise the clued up kids will get bored, and the less clued up ones will be more clued up, but in mostly irrelevant tech (school IT doesn't teach abstract computer science - it teaches stuff you can use to a degree).
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It depends what province you are from. I matriculated in 2008 and went to school in the Eastern Cape where we still did Delphi. However, I think other places such as Gauteng and the Western Cape were doing Java. I remember the final exam being split into Delphi and java sections so these are probably the only languages being taught.
Amazing... Turbo Pascal was the standard when I was in high school in 1986 as well....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_pascal
Apparently it's been around REALLY long! And it was the official language for SA secondary schools till 2002.
Apparently it's been around REALLY long! And it was the official language for SA secondary schools till 2002.
MIT used Scheme as a first programming language till around 2009. It doesn't really matter if a language is "old", as long as it helps students understand what needs to be taught.
finished school in 94 with pascal as well, got to varsity and suddenly oberon. Pascal was an easy and great language to learn on (20 years ago).
Delphi might not be that bad, the language seems nicely designed (from looking at it more than a decade ago) and java is not something I think high schoolers should be taught. C and Scheme should feature earlier IMO.
Maybe their country is 20 years behind? Maybe it runs reasonably well on their i486 computers that are in their schools. I recall some some software service charities requiring compliance for old versions of PHP for the same reason.
I can verify that compliance requirement for older versions of PHP is still going strong. Last project for a charity completed with PHP 4.4 because "we have too much to rewrite" despite most of the platform being brand new.
Also sysadmins are unlikely to support platforms in which they cannot assert their dominance.
Also sysadmins are unlikely to support platforms in which they cannot assert their dominance.
There's a fair amount of money sloshing around the South African school system, being wasted, I am pretty sure that the issue, whatever it is, isn't i486 computers.
Still beats VB (albeit by an increasingly small margin).
Delphi is very heavily used in the financial industry in RSA and is one of the more common languages in use in the country (the others being Java and .NET). The IT industry as a whole is fairly backwards in the country and extremely slow to adopt to new trends. 'Number of years worked in a language' is really the only meter in use across most of the country's IT.
I agree about Java and .NET, but I haven't seen a Delphi job advertised in ages.
Also, I wonder if you are being a bit harsh about us being "extremely slow" to adapt to new trends, but that's just personal experience -maybe I've been lucky.
I've worked with vendors and clients from Europe and UK, and we seem to be able to keep up fine with them. I also know SA programmers who are doing fine in Australia. There's a lot of legacy crap that needs looking after, but that's a problem all over the world.
Also, I wonder if you are being a bit harsh about us being "extremely slow" to adapt to new trends, but that's just personal experience -maybe I've been lucky.
I've worked with vendors and clients from Europe and UK, and we seem to be able to keep up fine with them. I also know SA programmers who are doing fine in Australia. There's a lot of legacy crap that needs looking after, but that's a problem all over the world.
It's not just a technologically absurd decision, the resulting expense is a terrible injustice for the children of South Africa.
The Evil Empire never stops. The next time you hear someone blather on about the Gates Foundation, tell them about this story.
The Evil Empire never stops. The next time you hear someone blather on about the Gates Foundation, tell them about this story.
This is probably a dumb question, but why is your text in gray?
1) South African teachers/vendors/Education Departments lack the skills to manage non-Microsoft systems. Yes it shouldn't be that way, but it is.
2) Java is not really a great first programming language (see Joel on JavaSchools). Pascal, and, later Delphi have been taught for years, and are well understood by teachers. They should probably just dump Delphi, and stick to Pascal. Attempts to look "relevant" end up looking foolish.
In the early-mid 1990's, when I was in what's today called grade 8 and 9 I did LOGO, for non-examinable Computer Studies, and it was brilliant. Although I didn't choose Computer Studies for my later school years(where Pascal was used), when I got to university, my positive early experiences drew me back into the world of CS. I doubt I would have gotten the same visceral thrill that I got from LOGO, if I had to wrestle with AWT or Swing at the time.
School Computer Studies is NOT meant to be a gateway to a career, and there are plenty of post-school options for people who want to become programmers. Computer Studies isn't even a prerequisite for university CS - everything is taught from scratch again. It also seems like recent graduates of some of the insitutions ("Universities of Technology", formerly Technikons) that supposedly focus on carreer preparedness struggle with concepts like writing loops. Perhaps these Technikons and programming colleges should also focus on the basics first, before worrying about "career readiness".
SA schooling is a mess. Maths and science teachers don't understand their subjects. Teacher unions obstruct reform. We have sunk to the bottom in the world rankings. This particular issue is a meaningless distraction.