Ask HN: Source of extra income, no programming involved?
Do you folks have a source of extra income which does not have anything to do with programming? It could be a non-tech job, or a non-tech business. How well does it pay off, and are you happy doing it? I ask because I'm also looking for ideas. I feel like I'll never make enough money just working on my full-time job (in tech), but I'm worried that getting freelance programming work will make me stressed and sick of writing code.
25 comments
Years ago, I did bartending for a bit, while I needed to pay off credit card debt.
I wound up making as much at night as I did during my day job, and while you'd think that working two 8-hour jobs back-to-back would be exhausting, it surprisingly wasn't.
The parts of my brain I used during the day, and at night, seemed to be completely different. Working at a bar in the evening was almost relaxing -- many nights, not too different from just going to a bar, except I was getting paid for it!
And the look on a daytime coworker's face was priceless, when she randomly picked that bar to come to after work...
I wound up making as much at night as I did during my day job, and while you'd think that working two 8-hour jobs back-to-back would be exhausting, it surprisingly wasn't.
The parts of my brain I used during the day, and at night, seemed to be completely different. Working at a bar in the evening was almost relaxing -- many nights, not too different from just going to a bar, except I was getting paid for it!
And the look on a daytime coworker's face was priceless, when she randomly picked that bar to come to after work...
Did you have any previous experience or take any bartending classes? I've been thinking of doing this. I've heard good and bad things about the classes, but I've never bartended before, so I don't know how else to go about getting a job.
I took a two-week, 40-hour evening bartending course where you practiced with colored water. The course itself was actually a ton of fun.
Obviously, like every first waiting/bartending job, you have to make up fake prior experience. Heck, they even taught us that in the course. I never knew anyone who didn't have to make experience up in order to get their first job. Plus I definitely "dumbed down" my resume a bit -- bar owners have no interest in your coding experience.
And of course, it helps (both financially and in terms of finding a job) to be in a major metro area. For me it was NYC.
Obviously, like every first waiting/bartending job, you have to make up fake prior experience. Heck, they even taught us that in the course. I never knew anyone who didn't have to make experience up in order to get their first job. Plus I definitely "dumbed down" my resume a bit -- bar owners have no interest in your coding experience.
And of course, it helps (both financially and in terms of finding a job) to be in a major metro area. For me it was NYC.
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I own half of a wine garden in San Antioco and cut the wines every winter. I sewn and sold more then hundred motorbike saddles. Its a nice winter job, that pays good for a craft. I've organized uncountable concerts, produced a few dozen bands, and pushed 3 of them into the charts. I even worked a few times for compagna.de as an escort for woman.
But all this is just a hobby, compared to coding. I'm happy if they break even, of give some small money, but my main income is a semi passive income from maintaining a CPAN module that I've published 15 years ago.
But all this is just a hobby, compared to coding. I'm happy if they break even, of give some small money, but my main income is a semi passive income from maintaining a CPAN module that I've published 15 years ago.
Aren't all CPAN modules free? Just curious how it brings you income
CPAN modules are free. But commercial replacements for XML::Edifact start at $100k not including the required consultant to implement it. So it was cheaper for them to pay me for consulting and maintenance.
The Perl Module is bug free for ages. But the UN/EDIFACT standard improves twice a year, while XML::Edifact comes still bundled with a 1996 version of the standard. Its easy to replace/update it, but those companies always have custom code list extensions, and merging them is basically my maintenance.
The Perl Module is bug free for ages. But the UN/EDIFACT standard improves twice a year, while XML::Edifact comes still bundled with a 1996 version of the standard. Its easy to replace/update it, but those companies always have custom code list extensions, and merging them is basically my maintenance.
> I even worked a few times for compagna.de as an escort for woman.
wait .. what? what exactly does 'escorting' for women in europe mean? because it means something very specific in the US...
wait .. what? what exactly does 'escorting' for women in europe mean? because it means something very specific in the US...
In Germany 'escorting' is not necessary related to prostitution like in other countries. Prostitution is legal in Germany, so you don't have to obscure it with 'escorting'.
I think there is still a difference if a man hires a female escort, or a woman hires a male escort, also in US.
To cite Compagna.de/en_home.html "Compagna explicitly doesn`t offer erotic service at all." as a disclaimer.
So its more about knowing the cheap side street pub that has the best tappas in town, talking to the bouncer at the dance club to get instant entry, when a row of people are waiting for hours, sometimes even shopping.
Sex is outside the contract of the agency, but it happens.
To cite Compagna.de/en_home.html "Compagna explicitly doesn`t offer erotic service at all." as a disclaimer.
So its more about knowing the cheap side street pub that has the best tappas in town, talking to the bouncer at the dance club to get instant entry, when a row of people are waiting for hours, sometimes even shopping.
Sex is outside the contract of the agency, but it happens.
Interesting you mention escorting there, one of the few groups of people here who pay for photography are escorts. Usually solo-professionals with high-end websites and prices.
I've no interest in wedding photography, and so it is a fun niche to have fallen into. (The other large-paying niche is pictures of cats/dogs/pets for elderly/retired women.)
I suspect there is a fair amount of money to be had in a combination of scheduling/calendaring/hosting for adult-workers. There are a few meta-sites but so many of the women I talk to struggle with setting up sites, getting shut-down for ToS violations and general technology-apathy. (Despite online searching generating 50%+ of their business, the rest coming from word-of-mouth.)
I've no interest in wedding photography, and so it is a fun niche to have fallen into. (The other large-paying niche is pictures of cats/dogs/pets for elderly/retired women.)
I suspect there is a fair amount of money to be had in a combination of scheduling/calendaring/hosting for adult-workers. There are a few meta-sites but so many of the women I talk to struggle with setting up sites, getting shut-down for ToS violations and general technology-apathy. (Despite online searching generating 50%+ of their business, the rest coming from word-of-mouth.)
In addition to being a software engineer, I'm also a consulting hypnotist. (quietstrengthhypnosis.com) I find that the deeply interpersonal work I do with hypnosis makes a nice contrast with the deeply logical work I do in software -- they exercise two different sides of my brain, and when I get tired of one, I get more motivated with the other. I've also found that doing hypnosis has improved my ability to focus and achieve "flow" when programming -- "flow" is itself a trance state.
The work is rewarding, both on a financial basis and on a personal basis (I'm helping to improve peoples' lives). It was surprisingly simple to learn how to do hypnosis, as well -- it's mostly a matter of projecting a relaxing demeanor and being able to read body language. And it's a great conversation-starter!
If you're curious to know more, I'm happy to answer questions: my email is on my website. (Just let me know that you found me through HN!)
The work is rewarding, both on a financial basis and on a personal basis (I'm helping to improve peoples' lives). It was surprisingly simple to learn how to do hypnosis, as well -- it's mostly a matter of projecting a relaxing demeanor and being able to read body language. And it's a great conversation-starter!
If you're curious to know more, I'm happy to answer questions: my email is on my website. (Just let me know that you found me through HN!)
> Do you folks have a source of extra income which does not have anything to do with programming?
Why handicap yourself by ignoring one of your most useful and rare skills?
Use your programming skill to build a side business. Build some kind of service or API or something useful to others that they'll pay money for.
> I'm worried that getting freelance programming work will make me stressed and sick of writing code.
There's nothing wrong with sometimes freelancing - just don't be the idiot that tries to compete by having the lowest price. Double or triple what you think your rates should be. You'll avoid garbage clients and be happy about any work you get no matter how much of a clueless jerk some client is.
Why handicap yourself by ignoring one of your most useful and rare skills?
Use your programming skill to build a side business. Build some kind of service or API or something useful to others that they'll pay money for.
> I'm worried that getting freelance programming work will make me stressed and sick of writing code.
There's nothing wrong with sometimes freelancing - just don't be the idiot that tries to compete by having the lowest price. Double or triple what you think your rates should be. You'll avoid garbage clients and be happy about any work you get no matter how much of a clueless jerk some client is.
Sometimes people grow weary of this industry and craft.
For some people, spending all day doing A Thing can exhaust your interest in doing that same thing at home.
I think it's fine to be curious about a non-programming side job. Sometimes we want to be of financial utility without looking at a damn screen.
I don't have much else other than ideas for myself. Closest would be that I'm a songwriter and have released a 7-song cd recently. But even though the songs are good, there's no real reason to expect they will go viral beyond family and friends. I've sold about fifty cds so far. I'll release digital versions soon and will sell some more, but I don't have any expectation of making the money back that I spent on making the cd.
I'm also curious about getting more into electronics - arduino, etc. That's a good stepping stone away from programming, and there's the possibility of inventing something quirky that could make some side income.
I'm also starting to learn about remote control flying. There are ways to make money at hobbies.
I guess the old standby answer is real estate. I know lots of programmers here are into that.
I don't have much else other than ideas for myself. Closest would be that I'm a songwriter and have released a 7-song cd recently. But even though the songs are good, there's no real reason to expect they will go viral beyond family and friends. I've sold about fifty cds so far. I'll release digital versions soon and will sell some more, but I don't have any expectation of making the money back that I spent on making the cd.
I'm also curious about getting more into electronics - arduino, etc. That's a good stepping stone away from programming, and there's the possibility of inventing something quirky that could make some side income.
I'm also starting to learn about remote control flying. There are ways to make money at hobbies.
I guess the old standby answer is real estate. I know lots of programmers here are into that.
Have you thought about teaching private music lessons? I teach guitar to 7-8 students, it's nice to have the extra income and teaching music to kids is a welcome break from coding.
You know, in the past, I've always briefly considered it as an option but seen the hourly rate as so much lower that it didn't seem viable. But right now when I'm experiencing coding burnout, the idea strikes me a bit better. I have this awesome 6'4" grand piano in my living room - it'd be nice to let some other people enjoy it. I'll consider it more. Thanks for replanting the seed. ;)
C'mon dude.. Where can we buy or download your record? I'm always interested in supporting HN musicians. At the very least point us to your soundcloud!
hahaha... sorry. :-) http://curtsiffert.com/ .
I posted this on a similar thread, I own a cleaning business and although it had some programming involved, its not the main part of it.
The current profit is on target to be around £4.5k a month.
I will at some point write the story up, but the TL:DR is: Spotted vastly under valued cleaning business with complete staff. Turnover of previous owner £190k a year. Profit of previous owner £18k. Yup, £18k.... Bought it for £13.5k.
Still in the early stages and still changing things but the previous owner was/is in massive debt, little free time to put into the business, did EVERYTHING on paper/fax/phone and had enormous monthly costs.
Theres a much longer story to this but i'll write it up in a few months when its a bit more proven. I have a mailing list setup for those interested in hearing about it when i eventually do write the story up, if anyone it interested: http://eepurl.com/FNvPr
The current profit is on target to be around £4.5k a month.
I will at some point write the story up, but the TL:DR is: Spotted vastly under valued cleaning business with complete staff. Turnover of previous owner £190k a year. Profit of previous owner £18k. Yup, £18k.... Bought it for £13.5k.
Still in the early stages and still changing things but the previous owner was/is in massive debt, little free time to put into the business, did EVERYTHING on paper/fax/phone and had enormous monthly costs.
Theres a much longer story to this but i'll write it up in a few months when its a bit more proven. I have a mailing list setup for those interested in hearing about it when i eventually do write the story up, if anyone it interested: http://eepurl.com/FNvPr
Really cool! Any tips on finding similarly undervalued businesses?
SAT tutoring - you can work flexible hours & via Skype. I've been able to make a full-time salary working a few hours a week tutoring while getting startups off the ground.
I'd love to hear more about your experience, what is involved and how you got into doing that part time on the side.
Sure, sorry for the delay!
I applied to Kaplan straight out of high school and started telling everyone I was going to work there before getting hired [I was not]. Instead of making $16/hour I ended up getting privately hired at $25+/hour by my classmates' siblings. At Brown I applied to Ivy Bound - they work with students across the country, both in person and via Skype. For my first job, at 19, I was paid $40/hour plus $90 just for travel, since I was the only person willing to head over to Newport to tutor at the boarding school there. After that, I began increasing my rate by about 50% each year. I jumped to $100/hour one summer because a family really wanted to hire me, I didn't think I had the time, and I asked for that rate because I figured they'd say no [so I wouldn't have to] - and if they didn't, it would be more than worth my time. They said yes, and it was. I still work for Ivy Bound and take private referrals in NYC through friends. Best side job ever, and I love the students I work with / trying to get them to stop stressing over the college admissions process.
I applied to Kaplan straight out of high school and started telling everyone I was going to work there before getting hired [I was not]. Instead of making $16/hour I ended up getting privately hired at $25+/hour by my classmates' siblings. At Brown I applied to Ivy Bound - they work with students across the country, both in person and via Skype. For my first job, at 19, I was paid $40/hour plus $90 just for travel, since I was the only person willing to head over to Newport to tutor at the boarding school there. After that, I began increasing my rate by about 50% each year. I jumped to $100/hour one summer because a family really wanted to hire me, I didn't think I had the time, and I asked for that rate because I figured they'd say no [so I wouldn't have to] - and if they didn't, it would be more than worth my time. They said yes, and it was. I still work for Ivy Bound and take private referrals in NYC through friends. Best side job ever, and I love the students I work with / trying to get them to stop stressing over the college admissions process.
It's not non-tech, but there are numerous opportunities in the publishing / content sphere which shouldn't result in you getting sick of coding but would still use your skills.
For example, my company gets subject level experts to curate e-mail newsletters that go out to other developers, but more generally you could be (paid) blogging, writing a book (for a publisher or on your own), recording screencasts, doing online training, and any manner of things like that. For some of these you might end up doing "research" type coding but not actual "arggg, I hate this client!" type coding which it sounds like is what you really want to avoid ;-)
For example, my company gets subject level experts to curate e-mail newsletters that go out to other developers, but more generally you could be (paid) blogging, writing a book (for a publisher or on your own), recording screencasts, doing online training, and any manner of things like that. For some of these you might end up doing "research" type coding but not actual "arggg, I hate this client!" type coding which it sounds like is what you really want to avoid ;-)
'I'll never make enough money just working on my full-time job (in tech)'
As a programmer? If you're not making six figures now, you will in 2-3 years. How much money do you need?
As a programmer? If you're not making six figures now, you will in 2-3 years. How much money do you need?
Not everyone lives in a major metropolitan area where programmers are thrown money like there's no tomorrow.
You don't need to live in a metropolitan area. If you're good, you can make 6 figures freelancing on oDesk (et al), and without working crazy hours.
What fantasy world do you live in? You're saying its easy to make six figures on a freelancing site where most everyone is looking for the cheapest developer? Seriously?
I've started a makerspace in my home town and, while it's not profitable at this point, someday I may make a stipend for all the hours I pour into it.
Building the space got me the opportunity recently to be a foreman on a large interactive art sculpture build for an international company where I was able to learn to weld and even hired on some good friends of mine who are artists and fabricators.
Someday I hope I can meld the two worlds - physical fabrication and programming - into a lucrative and enjoyable career. I feel it's a great blend of IRL type work and the addictive satisfaction I get from writing code
Building the space got me the opportunity recently to be a foreman on a large interactive art sculpture build for an international company where I was able to learn to weld and even hired on some good friends of mine who are artists and fabricators.
Someday I hope I can meld the two worlds - physical fabrication and programming - into a lucrative and enjoyable career. I feel it's a great blend of IRL type work and the addictive satisfaction I get from writing code
I made a bit of money selling old computers on Ebay, not exactly programming but being aware of things. I did it mostly to support my habit of collecting them, letting the extra stuff go. A lot of people make their living providing support for off-warranty gear. By ferreting out sources I was clearing 2 - 3K / month for a while during the great Y2K scare.
You could consider writing (fiction or non-fiction). It can be relaxing and fun and if you work at it you may find that selling the occasional ebook on Amazon makes you a buck or two. (Of course you might end up programming a CMS that generates books based on a simplified version of markdown and then start selling that and make a mint, but I digress :-)
Not sure what you're finances are like by if you can buy a rental property you will find tenants provide an endless supply of puzzles to solve (not all fun, ok most not fun) but it can be extra income.
A friend of mine makes funny bumper stickers and t-shirts (more of a design job I guess). The guy two streets over used to have an ice cream truck he drove around on weekends and at events.
Taking pictures of store fronts and selling them to the business owners to attach to their Yelp page? Taking pictures of couples at famous landmarks and selling them a copy of their picture? Juggling at famous landmarks for tips?
Making cold calls for candidates during an election year? Working at Macy's during the holiday rush?
You could consider writing (fiction or non-fiction). It can be relaxing and fun and if you work at it you may find that selling the occasional ebook on Amazon makes you a buck or two. (Of course you might end up programming a CMS that generates books based on a simplified version of markdown and then start selling that and make a mint, but I digress :-)
Not sure what you're finances are like by if you can buy a rental property you will find tenants provide an endless supply of puzzles to solve (not all fun, ok most not fun) but it can be extra income.
A friend of mine makes funny bumper stickers and t-shirts (more of a design job I guess). The guy two streets over used to have an ice cream truck he drove around on weekends and at events.
Taking pictures of store fronts and selling them to the business owners to attach to their Yelp page? Taking pictures of couples at famous landmarks and selling them a copy of their picture? Juggling at famous landmarks for tips?
Making cold calls for candidates during an election year? Working at Macy's during the holiday rush?
Depends on where you live and how much time you have. As a programmer, your main skill will earn you more in an hour than most people earn in a day. That said, don't burn yourself out, mix up your skills.
If you drive a Lyft, you could pull in an extra $20/per hour. Do the math as far as what gas and maintenance will cost you.
Can you do pet sitting or house sitting for people out of town? At least in SFBay, that's about $20/hr on Task Rabbit.
You could also give your time away since it sounds like you have available time after your full time gig. It is a chance to meet new people and out of that, though you shouldn't expect it, you could land some side gigs.
If you drive a Lyft, you could pull in an extra $20/per hour. Do the math as far as what gas and maintenance will cost you.
Can you do pet sitting or house sitting for people out of town? At least in SFBay, that's about $20/hr on Task Rabbit.
You could also give your time away since it sounds like you have available time after your full time gig. It is a chance to meet new people and out of that, though you shouldn't expect it, you could land some side gigs.
Seconded on the taskrabbit.com or mechanical turk on amazon!
I would also add sittercity.com if you're good with kids/pets
Well I am looking for the exact opposite. Focusing my "programming energy" for my own stuff while having a source of income from some other job. I have found nothing yet though.
Do something that you are passionate about or find fun to do and that you would probably do even if you don't get paid for. If its not fun, it will feel like work and you will come to resent it.
e.g If you are passionate about motor bikes, create a blog about motor bikes. As you grow your audience you can profit by either ads or affiliate sales.
If you list down your passions here, maybe the community can help you come up with an idea on what to do.
e.g If you are passionate about motor bikes, create a blog about motor bikes. As you grow your audience you can profit by either ads or affiliate sales.
If you list down your passions here, maybe the community can help you come up with an idea on what to do.
As a front-end guy, I would say recording events, video editing, designing, 3d modeling, getting into printed designs, etc.
Writing a successful blog, writing a book.
Writing a successful blog, writing a book.
Still related to programming a bit, but I wrote and self-published a book recently. Not enough to make a living in itself, but it helps some.
http://buildanappbusiness.com/
http://buildanappbusiness.com/
I teach CS at a small undergrad college, and we often need adjuncts to help us teach intro classes when we have more sections that the full-time faculty can cover. You might check with your local colleges and universities.
Stock market, knock on wood.
I hope that you are either (a) a professional investor or (b) buying passive index funds.
I buy individual dividend stocks that I think are undervalued. I've (slightly) beaten the S&P 500 since I started investing.
In other words, I don't think you have to be a professional investor or buy index funds to do well in the stock market.
In other words, I don't think you have to be a professional investor or buy index funds to do well in the stock market.
Well I write guest posts, on Techie blogs! Usually [How-to] posts. Does pay enough for pocket money though.
I wrote an ebook that sells fairly well on the ibookstore and Kindle.
you could look at becoming a real estate agent, insurance mortgages. or something like that. schooling not too bad and the commission are pretty good.
Why not just try to get a higher income earning job?
Depending on your career track, unless you're going into an executive job the higher income has a "ratcheting" effect where you have to work increasingly more in order to justify the higher pay. (If you're salaried)
There's more freedom, control, and potentially fewer hours involved in doing something on the side. Not to mention a nice change of pace. Good for one's sanity.
I moonlight on various side projects, day job is software.
There's more freedom, control, and potentially fewer hours involved in doing something on the side. Not to mention a nice change of pace. Good for one's sanity.
I moonlight on various side projects, day job is software.
No ... the question is the OP is a programmer and doesn't think his current job can yield the income he wants ... If all these unskilled things are on the table then surely finding a better paying programming job is an option because we're not talking about C level executive stuff.
Probably the case, but I assumed it was because they wanted a change of pace.
Buy bitcoins on btc-e, sell them on mtgox.
Teach kids.