Koding - Free VMs for online development(koding.github.io)
koding.github.io
Koding - Free VMs for online development
http://koding.github.io/docs/guides/koding-overview/
20 comments
I can understand your confusion on "what koding is", that is probably partially my fault. I'm the author of the docs/videos (a koding user, not staff), who is obviously a bit passionate about the platform.
I know i had no trouble "Getting" Koding, but that is because remote development is something i've been using/toying with for three or four years now. Originally it was heavy SSH, and focusing on trying to create VIM IDEs and improve a terminal oriented workflow so that it can all work through SSH, but eventually i learned about some of these Online Dev Environments. I used Cloud9 for about a year, before switching to Koding about a year ago. The point being, i've wanted this remote-environment concept for such a long time, it sort of comes naturally to me.
I imagine if you're very used to working locally, you have a hard time seeing the advantages of using a remote platform. I can understand, it's a very new tech, and it's not the next coming of Christ or anything. I got a bit overzealous with the "unlimited possibilities" line lol, but i have made an issue on the matter and plan on rewording that.
With all that said, i do strongly disagree that "Apparently the Koding team doesn't know either.". You're taking a beta product, with an obviously large list of features that aren't implemented, and saying that the devs don't know what the product is good for. It obviously has a roadmap, both with visible and non-visible features planned, so i think the devs have a good idea where they are headed with it.
It's not perfect of course, but online development is quite new. After being a user of many of these platforms, i chose Koding, so obviously i feel it's "the best". I am obviously biased because i have picked this platform as my platform of choice, but with the warning i hope you won't hold this against me.
Anyway, you can read my other posts which talk about how my docs project, and especially my "2 minute Koding" video, are not pitches to use Koding. They are for Koding users mostly, people who have already decided on the platform. These are things i, as a user, wanted to give to the community and hopefully foster an environment that i want to feel. Communities are what you make of them, and i am trying my part.
I respect your opinion nonetheless, and i'm sure the devs are taking what you say to heart. I hope i can improve the Overview as well, based on the feedback. :)
I know i had no trouble "Getting" Koding, but that is because remote development is something i've been using/toying with for three or four years now. Originally it was heavy SSH, and focusing on trying to create VIM IDEs and improve a terminal oriented workflow so that it can all work through SSH, but eventually i learned about some of these Online Dev Environments. I used Cloud9 for about a year, before switching to Koding about a year ago. The point being, i've wanted this remote-environment concept for such a long time, it sort of comes naturally to me.
I imagine if you're very used to working locally, you have a hard time seeing the advantages of using a remote platform. I can understand, it's a very new tech, and it's not the next coming of Christ or anything. I got a bit overzealous with the "unlimited possibilities" line lol, but i have made an issue on the matter and plan on rewording that.
With all that said, i do strongly disagree that "Apparently the Koding team doesn't know either.". You're taking a beta product, with an obviously large list of features that aren't implemented, and saying that the devs don't know what the product is good for. It obviously has a roadmap, both with visible and non-visible features planned, so i think the devs have a good idea where they are headed with it.
It's not perfect of course, but online development is quite new. After being a user of many of these platforms, i chose Koding, so obviously i feel it's "the best". I am obviously biased because i have picked this platform as my platform of choice, but with the warning i hope you won't hold this against me.
Anyway, you can read my other posts which talk about how my docs project, and especially my "2 minute Koding" video, are not pitches to use Koding. They are for Koding users mostly, people who have already decided on the platform. These are things i, as a user, wanted to give to the community and hopefully foster an environment that i want to feel. Communities are what you make of them, and i am trying my part.
I respect your opinion nonetheless, and i'm sure the devs are taking what you say to heart. I hope i can improve the Overview as well, based on the feedback. :)
So is the goal to spin up remote development machines and do something via ssh?
I know what I'm going to use it for.
I work on an open source project and I've just submitted a patch. Tomorrow, I'm travelling to go spend a week with my parents, away from home. I don't plan on taking my laptop with me, but I want to follow up on my patch. Reviews are probably going to ask for minor changes.
Basically, I can see myself using something like this when I'm on the move. I'm not a big fan of dragging my laptop with me everywhere I go...
I work on an open source project and I've just submitted a patch. Tomorrow, I'm travelling to go spend a week with my parents, away from home. I don't plan on taking my laptop with me, but I want to follow up on my patch. Reviews are probably going to ask for minor changes.
Basically, I can see myself using something like this when I'm on the move. I'm not a big fan of dragging my laptop with me everywhere I go...
So how is this different from either having a copy of your git repository on your phone (which you can mount on your parent's computer), or accessing your own home server remotely (or an EC2 micro/free tier server instance)?
It's different from having a repo on your phone because you don't have to install git to use it.
It's different from your own remote server because you don't need to set one up.
It's different from your own remote server because you don't need to set one up.
I just watched their "Koding in 2 Minutes Video" and the only thing I know is that they have VMs. And the terminal is an app.
Hi, i'm the koding user (not staffer) who made the video/docs :)
The video wasn't intended to be a pitch. It was intended for users who are new to Koding, and to quickly gloss over the features of Koding so users can get there bearings on where to go for what.
I really dislike the docs being linked to, as everyone here seems to think that the docs are:
A: Official (understandable, but nevertheless the docs have been made by users) B: A sales pitch.
I wanted to make the docs because the Koding Team had very little to no documentation, and i've spent a year answering some very common problems in the Koding Activity Feed. The koding docs have helped quite a few users i think, and i'm proud of them.
They aren't a sales pitch to try and buy you. I never intended for that, and i'm sorry they have been posted to HN as such :/
The video wasn't intended to be a pitch. It was intended for users who are new to Koding, and to quickly gloss over the features of Koding so users can get there bearings on where to go for what.
I really dislike the docs being linked to, as everyone here seems to think that the docs are:
A: Official (understandable, but nevertheless the docs have been made by users) B: A sales pitch.
I wanted to make the docs because the Koding Team had very little to no documentation, and i've spent a year answering some very common problems in the Koding Activity Feed. The koding docs have helped quite a few users i think, and i'm proud of them.
They aren't a sales pitch to try and buy you. I never intended for that, and i'm sorry they have been posted to HN as such :/
actually, according to the founder's speech(in turkish) koding is more about social project management than a IDE on the cloud, just because.
they hope to make money from selling servers.
they hope to make money from selling servers.
Hi all, I'm one of the Koding developers. I've posted this as a comment but thought It would be helpful to the question of "What Koding is?"
Basically, http://koding.com offers full vm with root support and a web-terminal (again just like a desktop terminal) to access this it. What does it mean? It is a full featured Ubuntu where you can install any stack you want. Want to play with Redis? No problem just do apt-get install redis-server. Want to try to use vim? Just type vim and enter. You see that only your imagination stops you here.
Not only this it has the concept of "Apps" that let you install custom webapps inside Koding, which can access your VM. For example there is the Rails Dashboard app that let you deploy and setup Rails instances with just one click. There is the Teamwork app, which is a collaborative way to work with your friends, basically you can share and play together on the same editor and terminal! Just think how great this is, you basically can mentor someone, you can get help to develop your app and so on.
Well not only this, there is also Groups where you can work and share your with your friends,class,team, etc.. Groups are awesome because they are totally separated from Koding and you can control and give access control to each of the member of the groups. This are basically subreddits with their own members and culture. Also VM's can be shared amongst the members, which makes it awesome to work together on projects.
This is just a sneak peek and many other features are on the way. Just give it a try please and see yourself how many great things
Basically, http://koding.com offers full vm with root support and a web-terminal (again just like a desktop terminal) to access this it. What does it mean? It is a full featured Ubuntu where you can install any stack you want. Want to play with Redis? No problem just do apt-get install redis-server. Want to try to use vim? Just type vim and enter. You see that only your imagination stops you here.
Not only this it has the concept of "Apps" that let you install custom webapps inside Koding, which can access your VM. For example there is the Rails Dashboard app that let you deploy and setup Rails instances with just one click. There is the Teamwork app, which is a collaborative way to work with your friends, basically you can share and play together on the same editor and terminal! Just think how great this is, you basically can mentor someone, you can get help to develop your app and so on.
Well not only this, there is also Groups where you can work and share your with your friends,class,team, etc.. Groups are awesome because they are totally separated from Koding and you can control and give access control to each of the member of the groups. This are basically subreddits with their own members and culture. Also VM's can be shared amongst the members, which makes it awesome to work together on projects.
This is just a sneak peek and many other features are on the way. Just give it a try please and see yourself how many great things
The title of this post is more informative than the Koding homepage or even the docs themselves. A clearer message about why I should sign up is critical.
After watching the video, I did understand what Koding was solving and was excited by it's potential. But, that message needs to be communicated more clearly when visiting the Koding homepage.
From the docs:
"Koding offers nearly unlimited possibilities; so many in fact, that people often misunderstand what Koding is being designed for. "
This seems aloof. I feel that this is more explanatory of what Koding offers:
"Koding provides free hosted VMs for development to anyone. The Koding VMs provide you with a real Ubuntu OS, with a real Terminal, and allow you to work on real code. Python, PHP, C++, C, it doesn't matter. Even better, they are online. Accessible from anywhere in the world. Even sharable with teams."
On a side note, would it be possible to offer offline capability? Perhaps allowing users to download/upload Vagrant VMs configured with Puppet.
After watching the video, I did understand what Koding was solving and was excited by it's potential. But, that message needs to be communicated more clearly when visiting the Koding homepage.
From the docs:
"Koding offers nearly unlimited possibilities; so many in fact, that people often misunderstand what Koding is being designed for. "
This seems aloof. I feel that this is more explanatory of what Koding offers:
"Koding provides free hosted VMs for development to anyone. The Koding VMs provide you with a real Ubuntu OS, with a real Terminal, and allow you to work on real code. Python, PHP, C++, C, it doesn't matter. Even better, they are online. Accessible from anywhere in the world. Even sharable with teams."
On a side note, would it be possible to offer offline capability? Perhaps allowing users to download/upload Vagrant VMs configured with Puppet.
Heya, i'm the koding user (not staffer) who wrote those docs :)
> This seems aloof. I feel that this is more explanatory of what Koding offers:
I would agree with this sentiment. I didn't expect so much publicity over my little doc project haha. I'll look at rewording that, thanks for the feedback :)
> On a side note, would it be possible to offer offline capability? Perhaps allowing users to download/upload Vagrant VMs configured with Puppet.
To my limited understanding, the VMs will offer an always-on option in the future. I haven't heard of a timeframe on any of this though.
My apologies if i'm slow to reply/etc, i'm new to this platform.
edit: I made an issue on this note. https://github.com/koding/docs/issues/71
> This seems aloof. I feel that this is more explanatory of what Koding offers:
I would agree with this sentiment. I didn't expect so much publicity over my little doc project haha. I'll look at rewording that, thanks for the feedback :)
> On a side note, would it be possible to offer offline capability? Perhaps allowing users to download/upload Vagrant VMs configured with Puppet.
To my limited understanding, the VMs will offer an always-on option in the future. I haven't heard of a timeframe on any of this though.
My apologies if i'm slow to reply/etc, i'm new to this platform.
edit: I made an issue on this note. https://github.com/koding/docs/issues/71
To actually get to the site you need to go to http://www.koding.com, there didn't seem to be any link in the docs.
The fact they publicly say its free does not strike me as a strength, how are they going to pay the bills to store all of my data?
It looks like it started life as an online php editor (kodingen.com) but now has broadened out to supporting vms with 'social' stuff.
Some of the main competitors are: - https://c9.io/ - http://compilr.com - https://codenvy.com
The general experience after playing with it for a few minutes is quite nice, robust file tree, good editor (ace), interesting news feed.
The fact they publicly say its free does not strike me as a strength, how are they going to pay the bills to store all of my data?
It looks like it started life as an online php editor (kodingen.com) but now has broadened out to supporting vms with 'social' stuff.
Some of the main competitors are: - https://c9.io/ - http://compilr.com - https://codenvy.com
The general experience after playing with it for a few minutes is quite nice, robust file tree, good editor (ace), interesting news feed.
I'm the koding user (not staffer) who wrote the docs, good point on the Koding link. I never expected anyone to be reading the docs who didn't know the url for Koding, but both Reddit and Here have linked to the docs directly.
Not sure why, but i'll add a link to Koding from the docs today. Thanks for the feedback :)
edit: https://github.com/koding/docs/issues/72
Not sure why, but i'll add a link to Koding from the docs today. Thanks for the feedback :)
edit: https://github.com/koding/docs/issues/72
It looks to be that additional VMs cost money, so there's a business model to start with.
btw, your compilr link goes to a domain squatter.
btw, your compilr link goes to a domain squatter.
Either s/he edited the link or your DNS is hijacked since it works for me :-)
Heroku provides free VM's also. Though the dyno's apparently go idle if not hit by traffic in X time. Also, of course you don't get full SSH access to do whatever you want.
The same is true for Koding. From the linked page:
"Approximately 20 minutes after you log out, your Free VMs will shut down."
followed shortly by
"Note: In the future Paid Always-On VMs will be an option. This is currently not available though."
"Approximately 20 minutes after you log out, your Free VMs will shut down."
followed shortly by
"Note: In the future Paid Always-On VMs will be an option. This is currently not available though."
This is useful for me. I don't really care about the social features etc but the core product seems good.
What is the business plan? I don't want it to be advertising or selling information about me.
The documentation could be better. The site looks very slick but doesn't really lay out the basics. For instance, just reading, I wasn't sure whether or not files are stored between VM runs (i.e. being able to save my work and configurations for use in later sessions).
The site (koding.github.io) doesn't even link to the main page (koding.com).
Side note: start ups have terrible names. What's wrong with using actual words?
What is the business plan? I don't want it to be advertising or selling information about me.
The documentation could be better. The site looks very slick but doesn't really lay out the basics. For instance, just reading, I wasn't sure whether or not files are stored between VM runs (i.e. being able to save my work and configurations for use in later sessions).
The site (koding.github.io) doesn't even link to the main page (koding.com).
Side note: start ups have terrible names. What's wrong with using actual words?
> Side note: start ups have terrible names. What's wrong with using actual words?
One part "brand names have always been silly" and one part "need to find a domain name that's available".
One part "brand names have always been silly" and one part "need to find a domain name that's available".
Can someone explain what this does, in technical terms? The site doesn't.
From some brief playing around, it's a web-based development environment:
1. At the simplest level, it's an installation of Ace (http://ace.c9.io/), an in-browser code editor. So you can edit code in-browser and it gets saved it to some (free) cloud storage.
2. There are some social features added on to this, which I haven't really investigated, but I guess you can form groups, get a feed of updates, share projects, etc.
3. In addition to the basic cloud storage + editing, you can spin up (also free) VM instances to back the editor, forming a dev environment. Your web-based editing space gets mounted as /home, and you have root access to an Ubuntu machine so you can install whatever you need. This can all be managed through either the web interface, or SSH if you prefer. However since they're only intended to back the IDE, the VMs shut down about 20 mins after everyone accessing one has closed their Koding browser window, to discourage using them as free VPS hosting.
There are a few other companies in this space. Cloud9, which developed the Ace editor (https://c9.io/) are possibly the best-established. Koding seems to differentiate by emphasizing the social/collaborative features more, and possibly in being more generous with the VMs. There is also https://www.nitrous.io, which I don't know anything about. If anyone's up for writing an article, I'd certainly be interested in an overview of the current offerings from someone who's actually used them, i.e. more in-depth than I can glean from checking out their websites.
1. At the simplest level, it's an installation of Ace (http://ace.c9.io/), an in-browser code editor. So you can edit code in-browser and it gets saved it to some (free) cloud storage.
2. There are some social features added on to this, which I haven't really investigated, but I guess you can form groups, get a feed of updates, share projects, etc.
3. In addition to the basic cloud storage + editing, you can spin up (also free) VM instances to back the editor, forming a dev environment. Your web-based editing space gets mounted as /home, and you have root access to an Ubuntu machine so you can install whatever you need. This can all be managed through either the web interface, or SSH if you prefer. However since they're only intended to back the IDE, the VMs shut down about 20 mins after everyone accessing one has closed their Koding browser window, to discourage using them as free VPS hosting.
There are a few other companies in this space. Cloud9, which developed the Ace editor (https://c9.io/) are possibly the best-established. Koding seems to differentiate by emphasizing the social/collaborative features more, and possibly in being more generous with the VMs. There is also https://www.nitrous.io, which I don't know anything about. If anyone's up for writing an article, I'd certainly be interested in an overview of the current offerings from someone who's actually used them, i.e. more in-depth than I can glean from checking out their websites.
My interpretation is that it hosts VMs of your development environment (only Ubuntu though), and provides you access via VNC or similar tech. I'd say it frees you from the burden of having to manage your own remote VM instances if you are e.g. coding on an iPad.
I watched the video and am none the wiser. What is the problem that koding solves? It seems like some sort of groupware social network thing for dev teams with a vm hosting thing bolted on.
I'm the koding user (non staffer) who made the video.
My goal was to quickly gloss over the features with the video, but i thought the concept of Online Development was a pretty well grasped concept. No offense to you of course, the video obviously falls short for a lot of people. It's not intended to be a pitch, just an overview.
I had hoped that by going over the features, that Koding would make a bit of sense. Perhaps i need to redo the video? The short timeframe goal, really limits me though haha.
I never intended my 2 minute overview to be on the front page of Koding, nor be posted onto reddit and here. This is so much more publicity than a short little video targetted at new Koding users.
Nevertheless, thanks for the feedback :)
My goal was to quickly gloss over the features with the video, but i thought the concept of Online Development was a pretty well grasped concept. No offense to you of course, the video obviously falls short for a lot of people. It's not intended to be a pitch, just an overview.
I had hoped that by going over the features, that Koding would make a bit of sense. Perhaps i need to redo the video? The short timeframe goal, really limits me though haha.
I never intended my 2 minute overview to be on the front page of Koding, nor be posted onto reddit and here. This is so much more publicity than a short little video targetted at new Koding users.
Nevertheless, thanks for the feedback :)
There is an public announcment: http://blog.koding.com/2013/08/koding-is-public/
Unfortunately, this announcement doesn't tell me anything about Koding!
I already felt in love with Koding, but I had some connection issues while using it, kinda bothering.
But the service still lovely, looking forward to see it get more stable through the years.
But the service still lovely, looking forward to see it get more stable through the years.
Hey guys, Koding developer here, thanks for the comments, there are some really valuable ones that we should consider doing. Would gladly answer the questions, if any?
hi! 1. Would it be possible to download the virtual machine onto my desktop/laptop, then, work on it for a bit, then upload it back to the virtual machine?
2. Would it be possible for the online virtual machine to access a USB debugger on my desktop? thank you.
2. Would it be possible for the online virtual machine to access a USB debugger on my desktop? thank you.
you can ssh/ftp into your VM but downloading it and uploading back is not possible atm, and i don't think if it is going to be the case. As for the second question i don't think it would be possible w/o running your VM locally. Thanks.
This page abort on Chrome/WinXP. It works on firefox. Checking the page source code the only thing strange I see is a font hosted on googleapis.com
That is weird, chrome on win7 is doing fine, i am gonna install an XP box, thanks for the notice.
You guys should really have a QA test bed with _all_ supported OS's and browsers and with _every_ releasable change regression test it through all of these OS's and browsers meticulously.
Since you're using VM technology I'd have assumed this would be a no-brainer to setup and enforce?
Since you're using VM technology I'd have assumed this would be a no-brainer to setup and enforce?
> You guys should really have a QA test bed with _all_ supported OS's and browsers and with _every_ releasable change regression test it through all of these OS's and browsers meticulously.
You and what army? They could be doing that or they could be adding features...
P.S. I accidentally downvoted you whilst copy-pasting your comment and can't undo it, sorry about that. Feel free to downvote me back.
You and what army? They could be doing that or they could be adding features...
P.S. I accidentally downvoted you whilst copy-pasting your comment and can't undo it, sorry about that. Feel free to downvote me back.
you're right, we should, we're a small team and early optimization is not the best friend of a startup, we test it in modern browsers w/ up to date operating systems, assuming what a developer(our target audience) would use. However i admit that it is still not a valid excuse, i would just say give it some time. Thanks for the comment.
I tried to register with github and now it just loops a popup that closes immediately forever when I try to sign in with github or register with github. Cool.
Update: Tried it in my unprotected chrome and after a few bumps got it working. Once you are signed in the demo is pretty good.
Update: Tried it in my unprotected chrome and after a few bumps got it working. Once you are signed in the demo is pretty good.
Koding looks interesting, however my interest in the project died after waiting several months to get into the beta but hearing nothing and seeing no changes to their site. I'd still love to try it though, but I won't hold my breathe.
Hey hoverbear, sorry for the long wait time.
We're in public beta now and anyone can sign up: https://koding.com
P.S. I work for Koding.
We're in public beta now and anyone can sign up: https://koding.com
P.S. I work for Koding.
The news stream on http://www.koding.com is broken as new content is simply inserted at the top and whatever you're trying to read is jumping around randomly.
You guys should try http://www.CodeAnywhere.net, free online code editor that connects via ftp, dropbox and has a built in sandbox as well.
You liked how the NSA was copying all your emails from Google mail, and all your sources from github. You will love how they'll introduce backdoors in your programs while you write them with Koding!
Businesses cannot stop coming up with new products and solutions. We cannot say that "Oh, NSA can access anything so let's not use anything anymore."
A better way to address the problem is to just persistently keep fighting it and raising this issue. Running away from it will not get us anywhere.
A better way to address the problem is to just persistently keep fighting it and raising this issue. Running away from it will not get us anywhere.
Locked to one OS. Expected mainstream ones. Useful for a niche of people.
[deleted]
i can see the advantage over having to set up my own vm or os install... but by targetting an os which, to a very close approximation nobody uses, I can't help but wonder what their target audience really is.
nobody who wants to make software for a living i'd imagine... although i guess it could work really well for web hosting type stuff where the crippling choice of OS is irrelevant?
nobody who wants to make software for a living i'd imagine... although i guess it could work really well for web hosting type stuff where the crippling choice of OS is irrelevant?
What do you mean with "by targetting an os which, to a very close approximation nobody uses"? You mean nobody uses Linux for development? That's a comment which really doesn't have single point of truth. At least i would except some sources that backes your argument, which you dont't have. Shame.
nobody uses linux for much other than servers to an excellent approximation. i shouldn't need sources for this... how many work places use linux workstations that you have ever seen? or homes? and aren't most pre-installed linux boxes nuked to have windows put on them?
But as a coder, I could never for the life of me figure out what Koding is for. Apparently the Koding team doesn't know either.
It's a bunch of (admittedly cool) tech features thrown in a box and shaken up a bit. Now the team is scratching their heads about what it is they've built, trying to justify their investment money. Koding is a fine example of a "sitcom" startup in YC parlance [1]: social virtualized viral cloud coding, just because.
So that's my analysis. If anyone from the Koding team reads this, here's my advice: Stop. Take a machete to 80% of the product. Figure out what it is that you're great at, and that people really, really want. Then you won't need to be making silly goggle videos or tragic blog posts like this one.
[1] http://paulgraham.com/startupideas.html