Extreme Saving: A Man, His Van and Five-Figure Debt(bloomberg.com)
bloomberg.com
Extreme Saving: A Man, His Van and Five-Figure Debt
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-30/extreme-saving-a-man-his-van-and-five-figure-debt.html
11 comments
Just imagine paying $32,000 for a "liberal-arts education" that leaves you in a state where you make statements like that one. I guess that makes me one of the critics he's impatient with.
If you work out savings of not having children and put the money in a decent savings plan you'll probably have enough to pay for better qualified care multiple times over what any children may provide (or not they're not obliged to help).
Well in this hypothetical, the post-apocalyptic scenario that bankrupts Social Security also renders savings worthless. Having a kid is very robust against something like hyperinflation, lol.
In any case, that solution doesn't scale. Every form of retirement savings is just a way to earmark the production of someone else's kids (so long as human labor is needed for things, that is). If you invest in Google stock in lieu of having kids, you better hope that everybody doesn't get the same idea because then Google would have nobody to work there, and its advertising affiliates would have no working-age people to advertise to.
In any case, that solution doesn't scale. Every form of retirement savings is just a way to earmark the production of someone else's kids (so long as human labor is needed for things, that is). If you invest in Google stock in lieu of having kids, you better hope that everybody doesn't get the same idea because then Google would have nobody to work there, and its advertising affiliates would have no working-age people to advertise to.
Good point.
>Having a kid is very robust against something like hyperinflation, lol.
While I don't know what the statistics are I don't like the idea of having children in part because of the assumption that they would want to help care for you later in life.
As much as I like and dislike my parents I'd sooner move to the otherside of the world than help them though old age.
>Having a kid is very robust against something like hyperinflation, lol.
While I don't know what the statistics are I don't like the idea of having children in part because of the assumption that they would want to help care for you later in life.
As much as I like and dislike my parents I'd sooner move to the otherside of the world than help them though old age.
> As much as I like and dislike my parents I'd sooner move to the otherside of the world than help them though old age.
This is a common mode of thinking, but I personally find it bizarre. The modern American generational structure is senselessly inefficient. We impose large taxes on workers so their parents don't have to live with them, and then those workers turn around and pay huge amounts for child care because their parents don't live with them.
This is a common mode of thinking, but I personally find it bizarre. The modern American generational structure is senselessly inefficient. We impose large taxes on workers so their parents don't have to live with them, and then those workers turn around and pay huge amounts for child care because their parents don't live with them.
Except a child's benefit to society is quite large. A newborn is probably currently predicted to generate $1 million worth of economic benefit overall. (Actual numbers are hard to get perfect given the variance)
[deleted]
He wanted to pay off his school loans so he could "feel like a free person."
Now his entire life revolves around being a slave to his debt (living in a van in remote Alaksa, etc).
To each their own. But to me, this doesn't seem more free.
Now his entire life revolves around being a slave to his debt (living in a van in remote Alaksa, etc).
To each their own. But to me, this doesn't seem more free.
Consider the fact that his degrees are in fields that can be learned for free on the Internet and at the library. $100k in debt for History and English? Ridiculous!
You are missing the point. Face to face relationships are invaluable and are the most important part of a good education. In liberal arts, there aren't dozens of high-quality, responsible IRC chatrooms, say, devoted to the intricacies of Nietzsche like there are rooms devoted to a single programming framework.
No, I'm not. Face to face relationships don't cost $30k+ a year. You don't have to go to school to meet people. If you're going into debt just to meet people then something is deeply flawed.
You're still missing the point. :) Repeated face-to-face conversations with experts and other students (i.e. a classroom learning environment) is not the same as sitting alone, in the middle of nowhere, in front of a computer.
I think you all miss the point. It is not about how he spend the money (in this case an education perceived to be not worth its money by a majority of you) but what he did to save this money. You could spend it on your next start-up or get inspiration to pay off your own debt by changing your living standards.
This isn't the pre internet age, though. There are plenty of people with degrees and advanced degrees you can find on meetup.com to enjoy IRL discussions with on a certain topic.
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I spent two years driving from Alaska to Argentina. My entire expenses were $1200/mo, which is pretty much what I was spending before the trip just going to work every day.
Not paying rent and cooking all your own meals is a great way to save money.
[1] http://theroadchoseme.com/the-price-of-adventure
Coldfoot is not the northernmost truck stop in the world. I drove another 250 miles North from there. http://theroadchoseme.com/the-dalton-highway-to-the-arctic-o...
Not paying rent and cooking all your own meals is a great way to save money.
[1] http://theroadchoseme.com/the-price-of-adventure
Coldfoot is not the northernmost truck stop in the world. I drove another 250 miles North from there. http://theroadchoseme.com/the-dalton-highway-to-the-arctic-o...
I would love to do that. Bookmarked the site for later reading.
"Plus, I was graduating with a degree in English and history, which, though valuable to me, is more or less monetarily worthless."
I can't imagine spending tens of thousands of dollars on something that is monetarily worthless just because it is of personal value to me. That seems incredibly self indulgent.
I can't imagine spending tens of thousands of dollars on something that is monetarily worthless just because it is of personal value to me. That seems incredibly self indulgent.
This: "I have little patience for critics who don’t see the value in a liberal arts education. We don’t mock people who have children -- and there’s no practical value to having children."
In many cultures children take care of the parents in their old age. Is that not practical value?
In farming cultures, the more children you have the more workers you have. That seems practical as well.
I think his analogy is flawed.
In farming cultures, the more children you have the more workers you have. That seems practical as well.
I think his analogy is flawed.
I agree the analogy is flawed, but that doesn't invalidate his argument. People have all kinds of hobbies that add no real practical value to their lives, other than that they enjoy doing it, and we don't typically make fun of people for those.
We make fun of anybody who goes into debt for those hobbies.
"I have little patience for critics who don’t see the value in a liberal arts education. We don’t mock people who have children -- and there’s no practical value to having children."
The fact that after spending so much money on his libarts degree, he'd use the skills from his "education" to make such a terribly stupid and obviously factually wrong analogy just proves his critics right, invalidating his argument. (Many people have kids because they want to be taken care of. Duh.)
No matter how many of one's fellow liberal arts peers might preen about their fancy, overpriced sheepskins, the fact is that these would be emperors in reality have no clothes. (God forbid you point that out to them, though.)
"We don’t mock people who play the guitar, or go on walks in the woods. Why should we mock people who want to learn about their world and learn about themselves?"
Yes, perhaps, but if someone spent $200,000 on a beginner's guitar, or paid $30,000 for the a membership to a private property to go walk in your everyday typical (and accessible for free at a metro park) woods, we'd definitely be side eying them for it.
The fact that after spending so much money on his libarts degree, he'd use the skills from his "education" to make such a terribly stupid and obviously factually wrong analogy just proves his critics right, invalidating his argument. (Many people have kids because they want to be taken care of. Duh.)
No matter how many of one's fellow liberal arts peers might preen about their fancy, overpriced sheepskins, the fact is that these would be emperors in reality have no clothes. (God forbid you point that out to them, though.)
"We don’t mock people who play the guitar, or go on walks in the woods. Why should we mock people who want to learn about their world and learn about themselves?"
Yes, perhaps, but if someone spent $200,000 on a beginner's guitar, or paid $30,000 for the a membership to a private property to go walk in your everyday typical (and accessible for free at a metro park) woods, we'd definitely be side eying them for it.
Really? When I hear self-indulgent I tend to think of your average American couch-potato lifestyle. This type of self-indulgence where you engage your love of learning for learning's sake doesn't really seem so bad in the grand scheme of things.
His self indulgence resulted in a debt burden his felt quite threatened by. I'm not saying it's so bad though.
I'm pretty sure food falls into that category. :P
Edge cases aside, surely 'learning how to think' or indeed just learning is tremendously valuable - surely the ultimate value that all other kinds are implicitly converted to (cf. heat in thermodynamics[1]) is 'personal value' such as satisfaction?
[1]: A simplistic view, please don't flame me. :/
Edge cases aside, surely 'learning how to think' or indeed just learning is tremendously valuable - surely the ultimate value that all other kinds are implicitly converted to (cf. heat in thermodynamics[1]) is 'personal value' such as satisfaction?
[1]: A simplistic view, please don't flame me. :/
Valuable for sure.
A lot of things are personally valuable but you don't necessarily spend tens of thousands of dollars on them - especially when they have no monetary value. And you have no real income.
A lot of things are personally valuable but you don't necessarily spend tens of thousands of dollars on them - especially when they have no monetary value. And you have no real income.
incredibly self indulgent
How? There are people who spend thousands of dollars on shoes, clothes etc. Heck, how many of us here spend tons of money on the latest gadget? Compared to these, spending money learning something just because he wanted to, is way better. And in any case, it is his money (well, it was a loan, still..), so he can spend however he wants (same goes for people who spend tons of money on the latest and greatest fad - it is their money)
How? There are people who spend thousands of dollars on shoes, clothes etc. Heck, how many of us here spend tons of money on the latest gadget? Compared to these, spending money learning something just because he wanted to, is way better. And in any case, it is his money (well, it was a loan, still..), so he can spend however he wants (same goes for people who spend tons of money on the latest and greatest fad - it is their money)
You can absolutely spend however you wish. The fact is we live in a pretty self indulgent society. Yes, if you spend thousands of dollars on shoes (per year, lets say) I'd consider that to be pretty self indulgent. But if you can afford it, why not right? I think where it gets a bit unreasonable is when you have to start living a lifestyle that you'd rather not live because of your self indulgence. Though I'm not sure that is the reality in this case.
Not everybody is a rational, utility-maximizing machine. This "something" has less substance than a durable good but may provide a great deal of subjective value.
And, as for myself, rather than questioning the value of such an education in the first place, I consider it a problem that this it's as expensive as it is.
I also consider myself lucky that my passions and desires happen to align with -- or are at least complimentary with -- my economic interests.
And, as for myself, rather than questioning the value of such an education in the first place, I consider it a problem that this it's as expensive as it is.
I also consider myself lucky that my passions and desires happen to align with -- or are at least complimentary with -- my economic interests.
This is one of the oddest things I've read on HN. What do you think money is FOR?
I've probably spent tens of thousands of dollars over the years traveling and other experiences that are monetarily worthless. And honestly I probably consider it the best money I've ever spent.
So uh. What do you eat? Any hobbies? Pay more than a couple grand for a car? Underwear, do you own any?
Not sure why you're interested in my personal situation but here goes....
Food is a necessity - plus it's not monetarily worthless.
I don't spend tens of thousands of dollars on my hobbies - they're near free.
I sold my car last year and don't plan on buying one again. But when I purchased it, I definitely made a self indulgent choice. I don't claim to be immune to temptation. But more to the point, it was never monetarily worthless and didn't put me tens of thousands of dollars in debt.
Underwear? I'm not sure what kind of fancy underwear would cost tens of thousands of dollars, but I'd definitely like to know more about that.
I don't spend tens of thousands of dollars on my hobbies - they're near free.
I sold my car last year and don't plan on buying one again. But when I purchased it, I definitely made a self indulgent choice. I don't claim to be immune to temptation. But more to the point, it was never monetarily worthless and didn't put me tens of thousands of dollars in debt.
Underwear? I'm not sure what kind of fancy underwear would cost tens of thousands of dollars, but I'd definitely like to know more about that.
More anecdotal evidence that the value of America arts degrees is far less than their over inflated cost
Value is only quantifiable in the context of a purpose. Is a liberal arts degree valuable as an instrument to garner income? Statistically, no. Is it valuable as a set of experiences which help to better understand the world we live in? Absolutely.
But does that make it valuable enough to justify the cost? I dunno. Ask Ken Ilgunas.
But does that make it valuable enough to justify the cost? I dunno. Ask Ken Ilgunas.
Absolutely not. What did he learn that was worth $32k to him that he couldn't have learned at a cheaper school or by himself? Networking in his field is of little or no value.
Well, considering he is now a published author, with a second book on the way, maybe there was some monetary value form that degree after all?
Of course this isn't the case for the vast majority of liberal arts graduates.
Of course this isn't the case for the vast majority of liberal arts graduates.
Sure. And he's a very determined individual. I mean, did you hear about the time he lived in a van to keep grad school financially within his reach?
The statistics definitely don't play out in a vacuum... His kind of determinism holds far more bearing on his successes (financial or otherwise) than any degree (liberal arts or otherwise) ever could alone.
Also, don't ever forget the power of defining your own terms for success. I mean, it's pretty hard to fail when you're successful by definition. Although sadly it's nowhere near as easy to do as it sounds...
The statistics definitely don't play out in a vacuum... His kind of determinism holds far more bearing on his successes (financial or otherwise) than any degree (liberal arts or otherwise) ever could alone.
Also, don't ever forget the power of defining your own terms for success. I mean, it's pretty hard to fail when you're successful by definition. Although sadly it's nowhere near as easy to do as it sounds...
How can you say for sure it has the second type of value?
> I dunno. Ask Ken Ilgunas.
Or to be a bit less of a dick, I think this is a cross between the ancient philosophical question, "how does one know anything to be true?" and the cliché, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." It only holds this kind of value to an individual if the individual thinks it does. [Edit: And just to avoid the bigger philosophical question let's just say that the individual is or isn't confident that it holds this value, not that they know that it does or doesn't. ;-)]
Either way, there's always the risk that you aren't getting what you pay for.
Or to be a bit less of a dick, I think this is a cross between the ancient philosophical question, "how does one know anything to be true?" and the cliché, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." It only holds this kind of value to an individual if the individual thinks it does. [Edit: And just to avoid the bigger philosophical question let's just say that the individual is or isn't confident that it holds this value, not that they know that it does or doesn't. ;-)]
Either way, there's always the risk that you aren't getting what you pay for.
Absolutely not. What did he learn that was worth $32k to him that he couldn't have learned at a cheaper school or by himself for free? Networking in his field is of little or no value.
Is that secondary value best given by a college experience or finding it yourself then?
That's an optimization problem. As such it doesn't really fit the context of what I was trying to say.
To put my point differently, this is an example of a market which trades extrinsic value for intrinsic value. Sure, some mechanisms are certainly better than others for this purpose, but as is the nature of intrinsic value, "better" can only be defined on a very individual basis.
To put my point differently, this is an example of a market which trades extrinsic value for intrinsic value. Sure, some mechanisms are certainly better than others for this purpose, but as is the nature of intrinsic value, "better" can only be defined on a very individual basis.
i came here to say something like this, albeit a lot less tactfully.
that said, i admit that i'm torn. on the one hand, we definitely need people to study history, language, writing, etc. the arts, and the liberal arts, are what help define a culture and help us develop that culture, those values, and pass them down and create a rich history. i wish our society valued that more, or rather appreciated what we have (and are at risk of losing).
the other side of it is the practical side. when i read that he had difficulty finding an internship at newspapers, that he had to push carts at home depot i thought "shouldn't that have been a sign to him that he's going to have difficulties in finding a role in the job market?" but the risk is that we, as a society, push towards vocational schools and away from developing thinkers, and that we stagnate because of that.
i'm glad he's writing about it and finding traction there, i assume he can use that to pay down his debt. that said not everyone - not by a long shot - can do that. the consumer marketplace just doesn't have that capacity.
this leaves me to wonder, then, about what roles we as a society have for the bulk of the people out there, and how to best serve them for education, expectations, and our future survivability. i am not creative enough to have any good ideas to help solve that challenge.
that said, i admit that i'm torn. on the one hand, we definitely need people to study history, language, writing, etc. the arts, and the liberal arts, are what help define a culture and help us develop that culture, those values, and pass them down and create a rich history. i wish our society valued that more, or rather appreciated what we have (and are at risk of losing).
the other side of it is the practical side. when i read that he had difficulty finding an internship at newspapers, that he had to push carts at home depot i thought "shouldn't that have been a sign to him that he's going to have difficulties in finding a role in the job market?" but the risk is that we, as a society, push towards vocational schools and away from developing thinkers, and that we stagnate because of that.
i'm glad he's writing about it and finding traction there, i assume he can use that to pay down his debt. that said not everyone - not by a long shot - can do that. the consumer marketplace just doesn't have that capacity.
this leaves me to wonder, then, about what roles we as a society have for the bulk of the people out there, and how to best serve them for education, expectations, and our future survivability. i am not creative enough to have any good ideas to help solve that challenge.
I've heard that Germany is MUCH more pragmatic, and heavily promotes technical and vocational schools, and tries to fit (or strongly pushes/forces?) students into the studies that are more likely to lead to success in the workplace.
My uncle works in heavy industry, and he says German workers are vastly better trained than any others he's worked with (mostly from South America, and some from US and China).
I've read about the lack of plumbers, carpenters, mechanics and other skilled tradesmen. I believe more people should be taught those (and definitely don't believe them inferior to, say, programming):
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/business/report-shows-worl...
About Germany:
http://www.imove-germany.de/cps/rde/xchg/imove_projekt_inter...
My uncle works in heavy industry, and he says German workers are vastly better trained than any others he's worked with (mostly from South America, and some from US and China).
I've read about the lack of plumbers, carpenters, mechanics and other skilled tradesmen. I believe more people should be taught those (and definitely don't believe them inferior to, say, programming):
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/business/report-shows-worl...
About Germany:
http://www.imove-germany.de/cps/rde/xchg/imove_projekt_inter...
It seems to me the problem is not that we don't value history, language, etc- it's that it has become commoditized, as so many people get degrees in those fields. That probably drives down wages and drives up tuition.
Tuition is rising, across the board, without much regard for marketability of degrees. It's more a function of the way society values school 'brands' and the way government guarantees abet this behavior by allowing essentially anyone to borrow as much as they want for whatever they want.
(Want to get a run-of-the-mill BA from an outrageously-expensive private college? Just sign here.)
I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say that the government should cap loans by degree-marketability or restrict school selection by a grading of school outcomes, but either a massive social re-valuation of tuition needs to happen, or things along those lines are going to need to be approached.
Our economy can't really grow when every young person is buried under student loan debt for years and years. Particularly not as we've transitioned to defined-contribution retirement plans. A decade of paying off student loan debt would either then be followed by large 'catch-up' contributions to make up the difference -- further delaying/retarding productive economic engagement -- or be underfunded, leading to higher social safety net expenditures when those workers retire without sufficient savings.
(Want to get a run-of-the-mill BA from an outrageously-expensive private college? Just sign here.)
I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say that the government should cap loans by degree-marketability or restrict school selection by a grading of school outcomes, but either a massive social re-valuation of tuition needs to happen, or things along those lines are going to need to be approached.
Our economy can't really grow when every young person is buried under student loan debt for years and years. Particularly not as we've transitioned to defined-contribution retirement plans. A decade of paying off student loan debt would either then be followed by large 'catch-up' contributions to make up the difference -- further delaying/retarding productive economic engagement -- or be underfunded, leading to higher social safety net expenditures when those workers retire without sufficient savings.
At no time and no place did a history degree really pay off in terms of monetary compensation for knowledge of history. It was always commoditized, because precise knowledge of historical facts is not greatly compensated for, as the norm.
It paid off in terms exercising a mind in the craft of delving into an ambiguous question, forming complex ideas out of evidence, and expressing those ideas in a more concise and accessible form. A history degree is about as a good a "pre-law" or "pre-sales and marketing" degree as any other.
As a society, we benefit from people knowing a bit of history. But that is one reason we have public schools, theoretically.
It paid off in terms exercising a mind in the craft of delving into an ambiguous question, forming complex ideas out of evidence, and expressing those ideas in a more concise and accessible form. A history degree is about as a good a "pre-law" or "pre-sales and marketing" degree as any other.
As a society, we benefit from people knowing a bit of history. But that is one reason we have public schools, theoretically.
A degree may traditionally not have paid off monetarily, but it didn't used to put you so far underwater. Which worked out ok- the people that loved the subject did it for the love of the subject, and didn't suffer too greatly financially from it.
Points at his own comment elsewhere: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5795016
Essentially: surely that depends on your notion of value?
Essentially: surely that depends on your notion of value?
Read about this in 2009, [1, 2]. Anyways, looks like he has a new book out about his journey, called Walden on Wheels: On the Open Road from Debt to Freedom [3]. If you search google for Ken Ilgunas looks like there is a full court press about it.
[1] http://www.salon.com/2009/12/07/living_in_a_van/
[2] http://blogs.newsobserver.com/campusnotes/duke-grad-school-o...
[3] http://www.amazon.ca/Walden-Wheels-Open-Road-Freedom/dp/0544...
[1] http://www.salon.com/2009/12/07/living_in_a_van/
[2] http://blogs.newsobserver.com/campusnotes/duke-grad-school-o...
[3] http://www.amazon.ca/Walden-Wheels-Open-Road-Freedom/dp/0544...
This reminds me of the time I lived in a van and took odd jobs to pay off credit card debt. Oh wait, that never happened...but it will if I find a publisher to give me a large advance for the book I write about.
I admire the determination to pay off one's debt no matter the personal cost, but I do not understand the life choices. There has to be more effective ways to pay debt than to move to the wilderness where you literally cannot spend 95% of your income.
Personally I favor the idea that it is better to focus your energy on earning/producing more, than it is to try to penny-pinch and cut costs. In today's world it seems there are innumerable opportunities to find money/success. But I acknowledge I'm saying that from a position of privilege, sitting here checking HN in my spare time.
Perhaps there was no other easy way for this English major to make more than $8 an hour, or perhaps he wanted the experience of going to Alaska (and also paying off his loan). But I would not suggest this as a first-choice plan to repay student loans!
Personally I favor the idea that it is better to focus your energy on earning/producing more, than it is to try to penny-pinch and cut costs. In today's world it seems there are innumerable opportunities to find money/success. But I acknowledge I'm saying that from a position of privilege, sitting here checking HN in my spare time.
Perhaps there was no other easy way for this English major to make more than $8 an hour, or perhaps he wanted the experience of going to Alaska (and also paying off his loan). But I would not suggest this as a first-choice plan to repay student loans!
I have always been a proponent of a more vocationally-oriented system like we have in Germany, it was outragous for me to see how much money people spend on "monterily worthless" degrees. Yet, I point out America's college system as the single best competitive advantage over the rest of the world. I so far couldn't find the words for it, but he put it soo greatly:
"Plus, I was graduating with a degree in English and history, which, though valuable to me, is more or less monetarily worthless."
"I have little patience for critics who don’t see the value in a liberal arts education. We don’t mock people who have children -- and there’s no practical value to having children."
"Plus, I was graduating with a degree in English and history, which, though valuable to me, is more or less monetarily worthless."
"I have little patience for critics who don’t see the value in a liberal arts education. We don’t mock people who have children -- and there’s no practical value to having children."
Ah yes, but the end of that last quote leaves a bit more:
"Why should we mock people who want to learn about their world and learn about themselves?"
Because you don't need a damn Liberal Arts degree to do that. It didn't cost me 5 figures to learn about my ego and my id; It cost me 5 figures to get a CS degree while doing so.
I also mock those with children, but only because I currently don't know a single person in my circles that should be having kids now, if ever.
When I hear a friend is pregnant, I just get depressed about all the opportunities they'll never have.
"Why should we mock people who want to learn about their world and learn about themselves?"
Because you don't need a damn Liberal Arts degree to do that. It didn't cost me 5 figures to learn about my ego and my id; It cost me 5 figures to get a CS degree while doing so.
I also mock those with children, but only because I currently don't know a single person in my circles that should be having kids now, if ever.
When I hear a friend is pregnant, I just get depressed about all the opportunities they'll never have.
I'm not disagreeing with you that at the margins, a liberal arts degree or the pursuit of knowledge at a college might not be "worth it". I just think, liberal arts people get a lot of shit for even wanting to do so.
Ultimately, it's about the second part of your comments. You clearly think they are doing something wrong with their lives, or they are not choosing the optimal route for their life.
While you are obviously entitled to your opinion, I do have some reservations about this kind of judgement. People have different views of what is a happy fulfilled life for them, so let it be.
(I know how ironic my "stop judging people" judgement on your judgement must sounds like, it's a fallacy I haven't been able to solve yet)
Ultimately, it's about the second part of your comments. You clearly think they are doing something wrong with their lives, or they are not choosing the optimal route for their life.
While you are obviously entitled to your opinion, I do have some reservations about this kind of judgement. People have different views of what is a happy fulfilled life for them, so let it be.
(I know how ironic my "stop judging people" judgement on your judgement must sounds like, it's a fallacy I haven't been able to solve yet)
> I know how ironic my "stop judging people" judgement on your judgement must sounds like, it's a fallacy I haven't been able to solve yet
Sounds fine to me as long as we judge people based on their decisions and the impact those decisions have on a non consenting 3rd party.
I'm concerned with people choosing their preferred route for their own life, as long as its the preferred route with the minimal amount of negative consequences to the rest of society.
I think the concept of "stop judging people" is hugely misrepresented. It should be "stop judging people based on things that do not and will not affect others", because really, telling someone to not judge a rapist for being a rapist is pretty bad.
Sounds fine to me as long as we judge people based on their decisions and the impact those decisions have on a non consenting 3rd party.
I'm concerned with people choosing their preferred route for their own life, as long as its the preferred route with the minimal amount of negative consequences to the rest of society.
I think the concept of "stop judging people" is hugely misrepresented. It should be "stop judging people based on things that do not and will not affect others", because really, telling someone to not judge a rapist for being a rapist is pretty bad.
And your pregnant friends are thinking the exact same thing about you.
Which I'm really OK with. Any of the people I immediately know who are having children will be getting the benefit of my tax dollars to pay for their mistake, as they cannot do so themselves.
So sure, they may think the same about myself, however I'm not costing the taxpayers money with my shitty decisions.
So sure, they may think the same about myself, however I'm not costing the taxpayers money with my shitty decisions.
While his story is interesting, I don't think it should be a model for anyone else or an example of how to be prudent with your education or debt situation. It's almost as if he went to such lonely extremes so he could write about this later.
And blindly paying down debts is irrational; you need to look at the broader picture, not be intimidated by what you owe. Maybe that money would be better spent on other things in the short term. I have a low interest rate on my student loan and just pay the minimum.
And blindly paying down debts is irrational; you need to look at the broader picture, not be intimidated by what you owe. Maybe that money would be better spent on other things in the short term. I have a low interest rate on my student loan and just pay the minimum.
I ALWAYS find the survival stories of college WAY more interesting than what you did to get your masters or what you majored in.
Uh, once Social Security goes bankrupt the practical value of having children will be the same as it always has been: someone to help take care of you when you're old and feeble. And on a macro scale, there is tremendous practical value in ensuring there are 18-25 year old consumers in a couple of decades. Facebook stock would tank if it ever became the case that it's primary demographic was a monotonically shrinking set.
Also, why are college kids today so bad at job hunting? "I applied to 25 paid newspaper internships and got rejected from every single one... So, I got a job at a work camp in Arctic Alaska..."
The only way to job search as a fresh graduate is to treat it like it's a job itself. When I was job hunting during law school, I'd bang out that many applications in a day. I know a lot of people who didn't operate that way: they'd apply to a job a week or so as they found something they thought was perfect (and take forever crafting the perfect application). Those people struggled. Hint: if you're a fresh graduate, and your job search strategy doesn't involve a spreadsheet to keep track of the huge volume of applications you're submitting, you're doing it wrong.
Yes, there aren't enough jobs for fresh graduates out there (outside software engineering anyway). So obviously if everybody treated job searching seriously it wouldn't help anyone. But as long as most grads are like this guy, you have a leg up by not being like this guy.