How and why the government is stalking you(applieddatalabs.com)
applieddatalabs.com
How and why the government is stalking you
http://www.applieddatalabs.com/content/how-and-why-government-stalking-you
41 comments
There are still those of us who don't support total surveillance and will not stand for it. Were probably more traditional Unix people and not so embroiled in technology. Everyone else has been got if you ask me through media, social pressure or plain old apathy.
However it's worse than just web sites. I've worked for a nefarious company who feeds of data like theirs. I came to my senses when asked to do things which destroyed my ethics and quit to make amends.
At risk of promoting a fanatic, stallman was right for many years. Once a fanatic, then a told you so, then a visionary. I genuinely was brainwashed to think the guy was nuts until I saw it all with my own eyes.
Some things you can do:
* sign out of Facebook forever. There is no point in deleting your profile. Real friends meet you in real life.
* close your google account. It just follows you like a leaky passport.
* get a dumbphone and turn it off all day unless you need it for emergencies.
* read books instead of use e-readers.
* host your own mail and web services at home. Use SSL (with own CA), SSH and encrypt your email if sensitive.
* ask yourself is your employer really doing ethical work. No? Find somewhere else. This is the hardest bit - it took me 10 years to find somewhere ethical.
* use cash, particularly when shopping in large chains or on public transport systems.
* use Firefox only, with adblock and ghostery.
There are probably more.
However it's worse than just web sites. I've worked for a nefarious company who feeds of data like theirs. I came to my senses when asked to do things which destroyed my ethics and quit to make amends.
At risk of promoting a fanatic, stallman was right for many years. Once a fanatic, then a told you so, then a visionary. I genuinely was brainwashed to think the guy was nuts until I saw it all with my own eyes.
Some things you can do:
* sign out of Facebook forever. There is no point in deleting your profile. Real friends meet you in real life.
* close your google account. It just follows you like a leaky passport.
* get a dumbphone and turn it off all day unless you need it for emergencies.
* read books instead of use e-readers.
* host your own mail and web services at home. Use SSL (with own CA), SSH and encrypt your email if sensitive.
* ask yourself is your employer really doing ethical work. No? Find somewhere else. This is the hardest bit - it took me 10 years to find somewhere ethical.
* use cash, particularly when shopping in large chains or on public transport systems.
* use Firefox only, with adblock and ghostery.
There are probably more.
I am very proud to say that my associate was very happy to build a highly ethical company with me.
We make apps for children, and don't put ads, IAP, or content that might cause bad behavior, for example one of the apps I took out a character holding candy before lunch.
Too bad this gave no competitive advantage, but lots of disadvantages, thus I must be happy that the money people in the company let this strong ethical opinion.
We make apps for children, and don't put ads, IAP, or content that might cause bad behavior, for example one of the apps I took out a character holding candy before lunch.
Too bad this gave no competitive advantage, but lots of disadvantages, thus I must be happy that the money people in the company let this strong ethical opinion.
Good for you. I wish you both the best as an ethical company.
"read books instead of use e-readers."
How necessary is that? Does it depend on the eReader? I use a Sony 300 series (which I personally think is about the high point of the eReader evolution, with the exception of the 350 for more screen space in an almost identical sized casing) which is as thankfully dumb and disconnected as eReaders get. It plugs in like an external hard drive and I simply copy epub files onto it.
You couldn't pay me to have a kindle (well, you could, but you'd have to pay me a lot and I'd just sell it and get another Sony).
How necessary is that? Does it depend on the eReader? I use a Sony 300 series (which I personally think is about the high point of the eReader evolution, with the exception of the 350 for more screen space in an almost identical sized casing) which is as thankfully dumb and disconnected as eReaders get. It plugs in like an external hard drive and I simply copy epub files onto it.
You couldn't pay me to have a kindle (well, you could, but you'd have to pay me a lot and I'd just sell it and get another Sony).
There are two issues with e-readers which need to be considered. One is obvious, the other is not.
1. e-readers like the Kobo, Kindle, Nook etc (ones tied to a store) phone home and report reading progress and are DRM encumbered. The Kobo even gamifies reading which is just insane if you ask me.
2. The second issue applies to all e-readers and that is that they promote distribution of epub files. The source of epub files is usually illegitimate (as everyone pushes stuff through stores) and the hosts are about as dodgy as can be as well.
Books can also change hands easily.
If you're going to get an e-reader, your approach is the best.
1. e-readers like the Kobo, Kindle, Nook etc (ones tied to a store) phone home and report reading progress and are DRM encumbered. The Kobo even gamifies reading which is just insane if you ask me.
2. The second issue applies to all e-readers and that is that they promote distribution of epub files. The source of epub files is usually illegitimate (as everyone pushes stuff through stores) and the hosts are about as dodgy as can be as well.
Books can also change hands easily.
If you're going to get an e-reader, your approach is the best.
It's always shocking to me how many of the people I graduated with want to go work for 'defence' contractors/intelligence agencies like the NSA. I can't tell if people don't think about the affect they're having on the world or just don't care.
I don't have a problem with cow-tipping apps, I just want people to avoid actively harming the world.
I don't have a problem with cow-tipping apps, I just want people to avoid actively harming the world.
Working for an "intelligence" agency, especially in a field like cryptography, allows you access to state-of-the-art technologies and cutting edge research, and an enormous amount of resources that you would not have access to in a civilian job. A famous example of classified cutting edge research is the RSA algorithm which was actually discovered in 1973 by Clifford Cocks.
Government agencies sometimes have reputations for employing people not smart or competent to work in the private sector. Only a handful of agencies in the U.S, such as the NSA and the CDC, have reputations for hiring highly intelligent people. The chance to work with some of the best people in your field is attractive to many people.
Not all intelligence and defense contractors are created equal, and some people want to work for these companies or agencies because they think it is "cool". Most of these people find out that the job is not as "cool" as they thought it would be, and soon find employment elsewhere.
Government agencies sometimes have reputations for employing people not smart or competent to work in the private sector. Only a handful of agencies in the U.S, such as the NSA and the CDC, have reputations for hiring highly intelligent people. The chance to work with some of the best people in your field is attractive to many people.
Not all intelligence and defense contractors are created equal, and some people want to work for these companies or agencies because they think it is "cool". Most of these people find out that the job is not as "cool" as they thought it would be, and soon find employment elsewhere.
Most of these people find out that the job is not as "cool" as they thought it would be, and soon find employment elsewhere.
I'm one of the few people I know who did this. (I used to be a Navy officer and spent time at the NSA.) By far, the vast majority of friends I had in the Navy wanted to go into defense contracting/spy agencies after they got out. Once your in the military industrial complex, there is a huge cult atmosphere about staying. Few escape.
I'm one of the few people I know who did this. (I used to be a Navy officer and spent time at the NSA.) By far, the vast majority of friends I had in the Navy wanted to go into defense contracting/spy agencies after they got out. Once your in the military industrial complex, there is a huge cult atmosphere about staying. Few escape.
It's not a cult about staying, it's the money. With the right connections you can be a bumbling idiot and still make well over $100k a year.
I worked for a similar class of organisation in Europe. It was promoted by my university and we were cherry picked with the threat of no employment otherwise (the whole industry was screwed back then) even though the pay was shit.
Most people realised what nefarious bastards they were within a couple of weeks but once you've got cash coming in, its hard to shake them off and find another job as no one wants a government tainted employee. I had to sleep in my car for 3 months as a result of quitting.
They are also not the best in the field: they are the easiest to manipulate.
Most people realised what nefarious bastards they were within a couple of weeks but once you've got cash coming in, its hard to shake them off and find another job as no one wants a government tainted employee. I had to sleep in my car for 3 months as a result of quitting.
They are also not the best in the field: they are the easiest to manipulate.
I can't speak for the NSA, but the cybersecurity-type research groups I'm familiar with allow you to choose what you work on. You can choose not to work on things you find morally disagreeable while still having the opportunity to do work that has real national/international impact.
> I can't tell if people don't think about the affect they're having on the world or just don't care.
Your case analysis is missing some cases.
Your case analysis is missing some cases.
I actually did intend to mention or that they think what those organizations do is something they want to contribute to, even if I find that frightening.
I blame a lack of historical knowledge combined with the fact that we mostly exist in harmony with our governments.
First, few of us have taken the time to read accounts of how the political groups of history have used information against people. So we don't know to do addition when we have one and one.
Combine that with the fact that most of us aren't engaged in any sort of activity that incumbent power would like to disrupt. You get a false sense of security, because no one is presently leveraging any of the information they have against you. That could change the moment you had an exciting or disruptive political idea, but for now 'the system' is happy with you keeping your head down and working.
If anyone wants to read a sad tale of how groups of men can use information to hurt each other, check out Out of the Night by Jan Valtin
First, few of us have taken the time to read accounts of how the political groups of history have used information against people. So we don't know to do addition when we have one and one.
Combine that with the fact that most of us aren't engaged in any sort of activity that incumbent power would like to disrupt. You get a false sense of security, because no one is presently leveraging any of the information they have against you. That could change the moment you had an exciting or disruptive political idea, but for now 'the system' is happy with you keeping your head down and working.
If anyone wants to read a sad tale of how groups of men can use information to hurt each other, check out Out of the Night by Jan Valtin
That guy Jan supported plain anti-democratic dictatorships and the use of espionage and murder until surprise surprise! he fell out of favor and had to suffer the same ordeals he made others go through, hardly what could happen to the average guy living in a democracy.
Put simply, he played with fired and got burned.
Put simply, he played with fired and got burned.
I'm not saying to empathize with Jan, instead empathize with all the moderate social democrats the Communists and Nazis fucked over, murdered, and destroyed.
Yeah you could say the same about the Nazis you know? not all of them were burning people 24/7 in the camps........but most of them did agree with it, same with communists in the west looking the other way while stalin and mao killed millions.
First, few of us have taken the time to read accounts of how the political groups of history have used information against people.
I question that assumption. Even people with a superficial knowledge of history are familiar with the existence of the Gestapo and the KGB; even if they're hazy on specific methods, they get the concept of a police state just fine. Just because they may not consider the US to be a police or surveillance state to the same degree that you would does not mean that the idea is alien to them.
I question that assumption. Even people with a superficial knowledge of history are familiar with the existence of the Gestapo and the KGB; even if they're hazy on specific methods, they get the concept of a police state just fine. Just because they may not consider the US to be a police or surveillance state to the same degree that you would does not mean that the idea is alien to them.
They are aware of the concept but are too apathetic to act on it before it happens.
Sadder yet is that the 'surveillance apparatus' itself may be actively involved here on HN. Heck, could be happening in this thread for all we know! That is the reality of today.
I think this place has lost a great deal of respect from the people that made it successful in the first place.
Google Glass is the end of all privacy. I frankly will not be 100 years near someone wearing one. If establishments allow Google Glass in, I'm out.
But how much data are they collecting that we DON'T know about?
Exactly. You read about things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A and you just have to wonder. That's an Internet backbone, who knows what they're capable of parsing and retaining from it. And if the capabilities existed to data warehouse the entire backbone, why not (if you're the NSA)?
It's all redacted.
It's much easier to redact something than take responsibility for it.
Relevant: how to cloak yourself online: http://www.slideshare.net/jonathanwhunt/cloak-or-feign-your-...
Meh.
Layer on top of this what we already know about the close relationship between mobile providers and the government, and it’s a safe bet that if the government wants to know where you and what you’re up to right now, they know.
IOW the headline is just linkbait; the government can stalk you more easily than ever before, but in the text of the article comes the admission that it's not necessarily bothering to do so. Before people throw up slippery-slope arguments and claim these things only go one way, please take a moment and ask yourself how much freedom you realistically enjoy now vs. in previous periods like the Red Scare of the 1950s when the US was in the grip of anti-Communist paranoia. I suggest that we enjoy a great deal more.
The stated goal [OEV] of this technology is to support, “classified blogging activities on foreign-language websites to enable Centcom to counter violent extremist and enemy propaganda outside the US." But Isaac R. Porche, a researcher at the RAND corporation, claims it would not be easy to exclude US audiences when dealing with internet communications.
You could make the exact same argument about Voice of America. A few countries like North Korea still make it illegal to possess radios capable to tuning into to broadcasts from frequencies other than the official propaganda channels. The US has leveraged broadcast and print media to promote its own interests for about as long as those technologies have been around, as do most other governments. I've watched quite a few North Korean propaganda videos on YouTube and somehow I've managed to avoid joining the Kim family personality cult. There's no reason to think that encountering some US government propaganda by accident is going to short-circuit the brains of Americans and turn them in mindless drones - we already have 24 hour sports and shopping and soap opera channels to take care of that.
I'm distinctly underwhelmed.
Layer on top of this what we already know about the close relationship between mobile providers and the government, and it’s a safe bet that if the government wants to know where you and what you’re up to right now, they know.
IOW the headline is just linkbait; the government can stalk you more easily than ever before, but in the text of the article comes the admission that it's not necessarily bothering to do so. Before people throw up slippery-slope arguments and claim these things only go one way, please take a moment and ask yourself how much freedom you realistically enjoy now vs. in previous periods like the Red Scare of the 1950s when the US was in the grip of anti-Communist paranoia. I suggest that we enjoy a great deal more.
The stated goal [OEV] of this technology is to support, “classified blogging activities on foreign-language websites to enable Centcom to counter violent extremist and enemy propaganda outside the US." But Isaac R. Porche, a researcher at the RAND corporation, claims it would not be easy to exclude US audiences when dealing with internet communications.
You could make the exact same argument about Voice of America. A few countries like North Korea still make it illegal to possess radios capable to tuning into to broadcasts from frequencies other than the official propaganda channels. The US has leveraged broadcast and print media to promote its own interests for about as long as those technologies have been around, as do most other governments. I've watched quite a few North Korean propaganda videos on YouTube and somehow I've managed to avoid joining the Kim family personality cult. There's no reason to think that encountering some US government propaganda by accident is going to short-circuit the brains of Americans and turn them in mindless drones - we already have 24 hour sports and shopping and soap opera channels to take care of that.
I'm distinctly underwhelmed.
I think the implications of your second topic are more profound than you are considering. By creating these online sock puppets and fictitious lives to back them up, the government is essentially injecting fake government agents into our lives which could go deeper than any of us would normally imagine. For instance, to be taken seriously on a message board such as ours, you might need a github page. You might also need a meetup profile. And you'd need a linkedin that's believable. To make these happen you might also need some real-world interaction, so it's possibly tied in with undercover agents in the real world, such as those infiltrating occupy wallstreet or other groups/organizations/companies we don't know about.
Espionage and counter-espionage has always functioned in an ethical gray area, by necessity. I appreciate that this fails 'the honor code' in many peoples' eyes, but I think it's better than aggressive militarism in that its ultimately far less destructive.
Thank you for saying this. What the us has done with military action is just appalling. To the extent that the US has enemies, spying and information based action is much less destructive.
I would also like to ask some of you who seem to take it as av given that any erosion of privacy, any knowledge about you by government is bad: outside of edge cases are we seeing big negative effects from the huge amount of data being collected about the population at large?
There are a lot of upsides to this infrastructure. I give Google a lot of info, but I get a lot in return.
As someone else mentioned, we have probably more personal freedom than any previous era in the us. Many US citizens lived during times when racial discrimination was codified in law!
There has always been an elite power structure in human society. The idea that the executive branch has to obey the law is pretty new.
In general, I think the ideas of human rights are so powerful, that any technology that has the power to vastly increase communication will be instrumental in their spread. It's because they are powerful, and have an obvious appeal to humans. The powers that be cannot undo the truthfulness of ideas, by any means. This is my pet theory anyway.
But I really am curious. There are a lot of super smart folks on here raising alarm bells about this. What are the scenarios where the average American brings calamity on themselves by posting a bunch of stuff online?
I would also like to ask some of you who seem to take it as av given that any erosion of privacy, any knowledge about you by government is bad: outside of edge cases are we seeing big negative effects from the huge amount of data being collected about the population at large?
There are a lot of upsides to this infrastructure. I give Google a lot of info, but I get a lot in return.
As someone else mentioned, we have probably more personal freedom than any previous era in the us. Many US citizens lived during times when racial discrimination was codified in law!
There has always been an elite power structure in human society. The idea that the executive branch has to obey the law is pretty new.
In general, I think the ideas of human rights are so powerful, that any technology that has the power to vastly increase communication will be instrumental in their spread. It's because they are powerful, and have an obvious appeal to humans. The powers that be cannot undo the truthfulness of ideas, by any means. This is my pet theory anyway.
But I really am curious. There are a lot of super smart folks on here raising alarm bells about this. What are the scenarios where the average American brings calamity on themselves by posting a bunch of stuff online?
I think the calamity comes when we re-define our objectives. For instance, right now the definition of 'terrorist' is fairly clear. But what if we start to consider drug lords terrorists (we probably already do)? Then what about the small dealers under them? Then what about considering the users they sell to terrorists (for funding them)? Then what about considering that drug user's spouse to be a terrorist, for harboring a terrorist? Then it could be fairly easy to imprison a great number of people. But the real danger is that instead of imprisoning everyone we pick and choose who we want to send away forever. Then when someone speaks out against the government in a way that's frowned upon, the government digs up some dirt which can categorize them as a 'terrorist' and they're locked away in a secret prison or executed.
This might sound absurd but I think it's plausible. And it's exactly this kind of worst-case-scenario preparation and fear which gave us the great documents and principles our country was founded upon.
This might sound absurd but I think it's plausible. And it's exactly this kind of worst-case-scenario preparation and fear which gave us the great documents and principles our country was founded upon.
I am not surprised no one has replied with a scenario which brings calamity. I'm sure many started to but realized how far fetched it would have to be. Few individuals can be a realistic threat to the government. My brother currently thinks he is harming the government by not paying taxes, quite the opposite though.
Distinctly underwhelmed is right.
"The government knows a bunch of stuff about you that you choose to publicly disclose! Panic!"
"The government knows a bunch of stuff about you that you choose to publicly disclose! Panic!"
Also, they're controlling our minds with the flouride they put in the water.
I periodically get concerned about this, but I already assume that government:
(1) mostly, somewhat, has our best interests in mind, not totally, but somewhat, and
(2) not only uses fake accounts and taps lines, but has presence and/or influence at pretty much any major company like Google, Facebook, etc.
I think the right thing to do is to:
* Periodically speak up and support privacy legislation, semi-anonymously. (They can find out who you are, but don't be blatant or overly noisy, even from different accounts or locations, because that is more of a threat. Don't use Tor, Redphone, etc.)
* Realize that we have limited to no privacy when anyone can post info about you and credit card, phone/GPS data, etc. can be used/stolen.
* Know that there are politics, power trips, psychosis, and evil.
* Know that most people feel the same way you do. They don't want people killing their families and friends, and want to respect your freedom. Whether they are in government, military, or not, they are 99% trying to help. If you have family in government and military, think about them. They have your best interests in mind, usually.
I think it is fine to have these posts, but don't get too worked up about them. There is no reason to be paranoid. Just do your best with the knowledge you have, and don't act like a straight lace or a wierdo and you'll fit right in and probably won't be a victim.
If you join the militia, sell your house and build a bomb shelter in the woods full of guns, or start using cash-only without a recent purchase of a Dave Ramsey book, that's a red flag. Also, don't buy fertilizer in bulk, or from a bunch of different locations. Basically, don't be a moron.
(1) mostly, somewhat, has our best interests in mind, not totally, but somewhat, and
(2) not only uses fake accounts and taps lines, but has presence and/or influence at pretty much any major company like Google, Facebook, etc.
I think the right thing to do is to:
* Periodically speak up and support privacy legislation, semi-anonymously. (They can find out who you are, but don't be blatant or overly noisy, even from different accounts or locations, because that is more of a threat. Don't use Tor, Redphone, etc.)
* Realize that we have limited to no privacy when anyone can post info about you and credit card, phone/GPS data, etc. can be used/stolen.
* Know that there are politics, power trips, psychosis, and evil.
* Know that most people feel the same way you do. They don't want people killing their families and friends, and want to respect your freedom. Whether they are in government, military, or not, they are 99% trying to help. If you have family in government and military, think about them. They have your best interests in mind, usually.
I think it is fine to have these posts, but don't get too worked up about them. There is no reason to be paranoid. Just do your best with the knowledge you have, and don't act like a straight lace or a wierdo and you'll fit right in and probably won't be a victim.
If you join the militia, sell your house and build a bomb shelter in the woods full of guns, or start using cash-only without a recent purchase of a Dave Ramsey book, that's a red flag. Also, don't buy fertilizer in bulk, or from a bunch of different locations. Basically, don't be a moron.
the US government is running a large ring of puppet accounts as part of Operation Earnest Voice (OEV)--a practice commonly called “astroturfing”...
Operation Earnest voice is built to allow 50 real users to manage 10 fake accounts each. These 500 accounts appear to be from anywhere in the world they user would like, “replete with background , history, supporting details, and cyber presences that are technically, culturally and geographically consistent.” What it does, effectively, is create a network of online personas that, when working in a coordinated fashion, can control the tone and direction of just about any online conversation.
This brings to light an important consideration about the current state of social media and whether or not these massive social networks are really the answer - could be argued that it is better to be apart of smaller-scale, referral based, private networks where there is less likely to be 'infiltrations' of the variety stated here.
Unfortunately, I suspect, that HN is no exception to a program like OEV.
Operation Earnest voice is built to allow 50 real users to manage 10 fake accounts each. These 500 accounts appear to be from anywhere in the world they user would like, “replete with background , history, supporting details, and cyber presences that are technically, culturally and geographically consistent.” What it does, effectively, is create a network of online personas that, when working in a coordinated fashion, can control the tone and direction of just about any online conversation.
This brings to light an important consideration about the current state of social media and whether or not these massive social networks are really the answer - could be argued that it is better to be apart of smaller-scale, referral based, private networks where there is less likely to be 'infiltrations' of the variety stated here.
Unfortunately, I suspect, that HN is no exception to a program like OEV.
I remember Deus-Ex in 2000 ... When the ECHELON/Aquinas was scary fictional big brother ... look where we are now ... :(
Even the people in the game itself where ridiculed for suggestion such practises existed. Let alone in real life.
How many of you Googlers and Facebookers (and the legions of you working for Facebook/Google wannabes) have really thought hard about what you're doing? How many of you care? How many of you honestly want to do something to stop the pissing away of privacy to corporations and the government?
I would venture to guess that it's a vanishingly small percentage. Most just want to make money, and let others worry about the consequences. Or they delude themselves in to thinking they're "changing the world" with some monumental cow-tipping app.