Show HN: We are building a home for questions too subjective for Stack Overflow
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I do think there's a gap that you can fill here, if you do it carefully. I think you're also liable to go down the same road of Stack Overflow in the pursuit of quality control.
So let me ask you this: what makes a bad question on Slant? I was in the suggested questions and I found the following question that I think would be good for a discussion.
The question in question: WHAT IS THE BEST OS TO RUN ON A RASPBERRY PI? (an aside: you might want to use an all-caps font rather than forcing titles to upper case. I just copied and pasted that title)
So my first question is: is that question a good fit for your site? I think we can both agree that without context, there's no answer to that question. Not just that it's subjective, but that there isn't even enough to inform your subjective opinion.
That's all fine and good if the point is to list pros and cons of the options. Maybe I should view each viewpoint as an analysis in and of itself. The viewpoint on Raspbian will say it's good for general-purpose stuff, etc.
But then what are the upvotes actually measuring? It's not fitness for a specific purpose, it's just popularity, right? And how do I choose something as "best", when I myself might argue that three options are "best" given what I'm trying to do?
So let me ask you this: what makes a bad question on Slant? I was in the suggested questions and I found the following question that I think would be good for a discussion.
The question in question: WHAT IS THE BEST OS TO RUN ON A RASPBERRY PI? (an aside: you might want to use an all-caps font rather than forcing titles to upper case. I just copied and pasted that title)
So my first question is: is that question a good fit for your site? I think we can both agree that without context, there's no answer to that question. Not just that it's subjective, but that there isn't even enough to inform your subjective opinion.
That's all fine and good if the point is to list pros and cons of the options. Maybe I should view each viewpoint as an analysis in and of itself. The viewpoint on Raspbian will say it's good for general-purpose stuff, etc.
But then what are the upvotes actually measuring? It's not fitness for a specific purpose, it's just popularity, right? And how do I choose something as "best", when I myself might argue that three options are "best" given what I'm trying to do?
! This question has been closed as being too constructive. As it currently stands, this question is not a good fit for our argumentative format. We expect answers that can't be supported by facts, references, or specific expertise, but this question will likely solicit objective facts, statistics, and definitive answers. If you feel that this question can be improved and possibly reopened, see the FAQ for guidance. !
You could just scrape SO to find all closed questions. Remember me when you're rich.
You could just scrape SO to find all closed questions. Remember me when you're rich.
:) Great idea. Thank you mate. Any other feedback on the site?
Really insightful comment.
>what makes a bad question on Slant?
The primary criteria is that it's scoped enough that the Viewpoints are useful to compare. The one missing feature that helps this (and your other points) is a "topic description" that will provide some more context to the title, this is in the works (and is desperately needed)
>That's all fine and good if the point is to list pros and cons of the options. Maybe I should view each viewpoint as an analysis in and of itself. The viewpoint on Raspbian will say it's good for general-purpose stuff, etc.
That is the general idea. As you pointed out the topic doesn't provide enough information, so the Viewpoints are self-contained analyses on the use-case & pro/con for the different options.
>But then what are the upvotes actually measuring? It's not fitness for a specific purpose, it's just popularity, right? And how do I choose something as "best", when I myself might argue that three options are "best" given what I'm trying to do?
Bingo. This is something we are experimenting with. When the question is scoped tightly enough, the votes do correspond to the best option. When its not, as in the Raspberry Pi question, its just a rough indicator of popularity.
But as you pointed out just because the question isn't tightly scoped doesn't mean its not a great discussion. If you just bought a rasberry pi, didn't have a specific use-case in mind for it and just wanted to fiddle around, a high-level comparison of the different OS's is handy.
Edit: Missed the last question:
>And how do I choose something as "best", when I myself might argue that three options are "best" given what I'm trying to do?
Might have to get a little theoretical here, bear with me.
So depending on the scope of the question, the tradeoff analysis either takes place in the mind of the reader or in the writing of the Viewpoints. Back to the Raspberry pi question, as the topic isn't tightly scoped, the Viewpoints are a "analysis in and of itself" and you mentally then pick the option that has pros/cons that best match the use-case you have in mind. Again this backs up your point about the voting not being aligned to the "best" for YOU, as people will just vote for what they personally like. We have a couple ideas for this and will have to learn and experiment over time.
>what makes a bad question on Slant?
The primary criteria is that it's scoped enough that the Viewpoints are useful to compare. The one missing feature that helps this (and your other points) is a "topic description" that will provide some more context to the title, this is in the works (and is desperately needed)
>That's all fine and good if the point is to list pros and cons of the options. Maybe I should view each viewpoint as an analysis in and of itself. The viewpoint on Raspbian will say it's good for general-purpose stuff, etc.
That is the general idea. As you pointed out the topic doesn't provide enough information, so the Viewpoints are self-contained analyses on the use-case & pro/con for the different options.
>But then what are the upvotes actually measuring? It's not fitness for a specific purpose, it's just popularity, right? And how do I choose something as "best", when I myself might argue that three options are "best" given what I'm trying to do?
Bingo. This is something we are experimenting with. When the question is scoped tightly enough, the votes do correspond to the best option. When its not, as in the Raspberry Pi question, its just a rough indicator of popularity.
But as you pointed out just because the question isn't tightly scoped doesn't mean its not a great discussion. If you just bought a rasberry pi, didn't have a specific use-case in mind for it and just wanted to fiddle around, a high-level comparison of the different OS's is handy.
Edit: Missed the last question:
>And how do I choose something as "best", when I myself might argue that three options are "best" given what I'm trying to do?
Might have to get a little theoretical here, bear with me.
So depending on the scope of the question, the tradeoff analysis either takes place in the mind of the reader or in the writing of the Viewpoints. Back to the Raspberry pi question, as the topic isn't tightly scoped, the Viewpoints are a "analysis in and of itself" and you mentally then pick the option that has pros/cons that best match the use-case you have in mind. Again this backs up your point about the voting not being aligned to the "best" for YOU, as people will just vote for what they personally like. We have a couple ideas for this and will have to learn and experiment over time.
Thanks for the response! Best of luck.
Does what I was saying make sense? I was also wondering how much beer would I have to bribe you with in order to be able get your thoughts on how we should approach those sorts of issues? Love to be able to bounce ideas of someone who understands the issues with what we are trying to build.
I think it makes sense that you're continuing to think about it :-). Your definition of a good question is reasonable, I think. But it doesn't take much reading on tech forums (yes, even HN) to see that some questions, like "Which is the best programming paradigm" are really battlegrounds for religious wars. As engineers our goal should always be to use the best tool for the job, but without a defined "job", we retreat to personal preference and experience.
I think there are various alternatives to try to mitigate voting being a popularity contest. One is to remove any claim of the question being about the "best, given no context". The question might be better phrased as "Which Raspberry PI OS is right for me?", where the "me" is defined by the reader. Then the quality of the answer would be determined by whether in the answer, it qualifies the assumptions. Something like: "Premise: You want to control small hobbyist mechanical and electrical systems using the onboard GPIO" and "Premise: You want to use the PI for media sharing."
Another option is to abandon a simple upvote system in favor of qualified thumbs-up. Like "This answer is ✓ Clear, ✓ Insightful, ✓ Accurate". Unfortunately that wreaks havoc on your pretty charts, unless you find a way of unifying those votes into a single score. And I'm also not sure it aligns well with your desire for collaborative, continuously improving answers. If it's not clear, or accurate, it should be edited!
I think there are various alternatives to try to mitigate voting being a popularity contest. One is to remove any claim of the question being about the "best, given no context". The question might be better phrased as "Which Raspberry PI OS is right for me?", where the "me" is defined by the reader. Then the quality of the answer would be determined by whether in the answer, it qualifies the assumptions. Something like: "Premise: You want to control small hobbyist mechanical and electrical systems using the onboard GPIO" and "Premise: You want to use the PI for media sharing."
Another option is to abandon a simple upvote system in favor of qualified thumbs-up. Like "This answer is ✓ Clear, ✓ Insightful, ✓ Accurate". Unfortunately that wreaks havoc on your pretty charts, unless you find a way of unifying those votes into a single score. And I'm also not sure it aligns well with your desire for collaborative, continuously improving answers. If it's not clear, or accurate, it should be edited!
One really simple change could be altering the wording to be "What are the different..." when its very high level and "what is the best.." when they have scoped it enough. It's a small change that reflects your points.
If its scoped enough that in the topic description they have defined their requirements, I think "What is the best..given these requirements" could be suitable and the votes would work.
>If it's not clear, or accurate, it should be edited!
You should be writing our copy... :) (Side note: I wrote the entire about us, FAQ and contributor guidelines in the usual Slant format so the community can edit and discuss them. My hope is to get this level of meta-discussion consistently improving our approach to these issues)
> Another option is to abandon a simple upvote system in favor of qualified thumbs-up
This could work, I'll sleep on it and think about how that would play out.
I also guess my beer bribe didn't hit home. Scotch?
If its scoped enough that in the topic description they have defined their requirements, I think "What is the best..given these requirements" could be suitable and the votes would work.
>If it's not clear, or accurate, it should be edited!
You should be writing our copy... :) (Side note: I wrote the entire about us, FAQ and contributor guidelines in the usual Slant format so the community can edit and discuss them. My hope is to get this level of meta-discussion consistently improving our approach to these issues)
> Another option is to abandon a simple upvote system in favor of qualified thumbs-up
This could work, I'll sleep on it and think about how that would play out.
I also guess my beer bribe didn't hit home. Scotch?
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I think a good discussion would be whether or not you should use an all-cap font or not. I already disagree with peeters. I hate the idea of copying something I see in all-caps and pasting something which could be any combination of caps and lower-case.
Subjective questions/discussions are everywhere!
Subjective questions/discussions are everywhere!
Good idea. I often have questions where I'd like to canvas the views of other developers. Given the popularity of a lot of closed questions on SO, I'm guessing I'm not the only one.
Don't much like the drill-down aspect. When you click on a question (/topics/blahblah), I'd rather see one long single-column page with everything on it. The Select Viewpoint nav bar could stay with you, as you scroll, for convenience.
Don't much like the drill-down aspect. When you click on a question (/topics/blahblah), I'd rather see one long single-column page with everything on it. The Select Viewpoint nav bar could stay with you, as you scroll, for convenience.
> Good idea.
Thank you!!
I see where you're coming from with the drill down. The tradeoff we had to make is to handle these types of topics:
http://slant.co/topics/what-is-the-best-programming-font
Where there are only a little bit of text and mainly overviews.
And these types of topics:
http://slant.co/topics/what-is-the-best-architecture-for-bui...
That are more long form. It's hard to create a view to handle both use-cases, but we will definitely try as you're right that it would be better.
> The Select Viewpoint nav bar could stay with you, as you scroll, for convenience.
Will test that, thanks!
Thank you!!
I see where you're coming from with the drill down. The tradeoff we had to make is to handle these types of topics:
http://slant.co/topics/what-is-the-best-programming-font
Where there are only a little bit of text and mainly overviews.
And these types of topics:
http://slant.co/topics/what-is-the-best-architecture-for-bui...
That are more long form. It's hard to create a view to handle both use-cases, but we will definitely try as you're right that it would be better.
> The Select Viewpoint nav bar could stay with you, as you scroll, for convenience.
Will test that, thanks!
I really like the idea behind this website, there are few interesting topics. One suggestion: in "Select viewport" section add number of upvotes for each viewport (so you don't have to click on every viewport to see number of upvotes).
>I really like the idea behind this website, there are few interesting topics.
:) Thanks mate.
> One suggestion: in "Select viewport" section add number of upvotes for each viewport (so you don't have to click on every viewport to see number of upvotes).
If you hover over the piechart you can see what % votes each got. But I do like that idea as well, a little more obvious. Will put it on the to-do.
:) Thanks mate.
> One suggestion: in "Select viewport" section add number of upvotes for each viewport (so you don't have to click on every viewport to see number of upvotes).
If you hover over the piechart you can see what % votes each got. But I do like that idea as well, a little more obvious. Will put it on the to-do.
Clickable link: http://www.slant.co
Its a great idea, but the UI seems a bit confusing. I got lost in there.
Also: http://slant.co/topics/best-resources-for-startups-to-learn-...
Thanks for writing all that, very helpful.
Thanks for writing all that, very helpful.
Oh, how nice of you. Thank you.
Any chance for some of your time to give me some concrete examples to fix?
Its just that everything is cobbled up together. Too much stuff going on at the same time. Plus too many bright colors. Dunno, its just overwhelming for me. Maybe you can have a designer take a look at it and give you professional feedback?
Edit:
I guess my main issue is that the container holding the main content is too narrow. In SO you have about 70% of the page for the content. Here you have about 40%. Plus the font size is a bit small.
Also, the suggest edit VS comment thing is confusing.
Edit:
I guess my main issue is that the container holding the main content is too narrow. In SO you have about 70% of the page for the content. Here you have about 40%. Plus the font size is a bit small.
Also, the suggest edit VS comment thing is confusing.
Refresh the page, just widened the content, better?
> Also, the suggest edit VS comment thing is confusing.
Hrmm, well one is for editing the content, and the other is just for discussing it. I see how the UI for it is confusing though, I will brainstorm some better approaches to it.
> Also, the suggest edit VS comment thing is confusing.
Hrmm, well one is for editing the content, and the other is just for discussing it. I see how the UI for it is confusing though, I will brainstorm some better approaches to it.
I can't tell the difference. This is not something to do on the fly though. You should run some usability tests.
We are slowly learning to be a lot more disciplined in how we handle changes, but obviously have a long way to go. Thanks for the tip, will do.
Feel free to get in touch through email. I can give some quick pointers.
Stackexchange already has a site that is for these kind of questions: http://programmers.stackexchange.com/
Cool site! Would love it if you had a topic on finding the cheapest international shipping rates.
I really like the design.
:) our front-end dev who learnt design while on the job just said "woot, thank you"
fails miserably to render in IE8. I like the idea btw.
I know :( really sorry about that, we are working on browser compatibly ASAP. Any chance you can check it out on another browser?
Also, a preemptive apology for the fact that the site currently requires Javascript - it's being worked on at this very moment.
Shame about the name being a derogatory term.
Does it make you think straight away that the content is biased? We are more going for objective reasons for your Viewpoints.
I think OP was more referring to "slant" being an offensive term for Asian people. I don't find it (the domain name) offensive, but I'm not Asian (and I've never heard an Asian person called that before).
Personally I think you make things worse if you say that people can't use a term for its non-offensive meaning because it's also used in an unrelated, derogatory way. At that point you're simply promoting using the term for its offensive purpose.
Personally I think you make things worse if you say that people can't use a term for its non-offensive meaning because it's also used in an unrelated, derogatory way. At that point you're simply promoting using the term for its offensive purpose.
Oh, thanks for clarifying!
Would really appreciate some feedback on a site we are working on that deals with programming/tech questions with no definitive answer.
The concept is that while there may be no definitive answer to "Best X for Y", knowing the pros/cons of the different options and their use-cases is useful when making a decision.
We also took a different approach to Q&A and went very collaborative, so one person doesn't have to write everything and we can improve/update it over time.
Thanks!
www.slant.co