Don't try to dodge the recession with grad school(blog.penelopetrunk.com)
blog.penelopetrunk.com
Don't try to dodge the recession with grad school
http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2009/02/03/dont-try-to-dodge-the-recession-with-grad-school/
6 comments
My good friend from high school who was not rich nor poor enlisted in the military because college simply wasn't the right place (he was not 'an academic'). Our military is not only for the poor and maybe grad school isn't just for rich kids putting off adulthood.
That's definitely true, but going to grad school or the military as a "backup" is probably a bad idea. There are worse holding patterns, but there are also a lot better ones.
In general, if you don't know what you want to do, making a multi-year commitment is a bad idea.
In general, if you don't know what you want to do, making a multi-year commitment is a bad idea.
Follow through is what makes it a good or bad choice. A 20 year military stint can be extremely profitable. Join at 18, get a free collage, and Masters degree (or two), then leave and become a consultant at 200+k/year. Add in all those sweet long term benefits such as a pension and it's not a stupid choice if you know how to network and try and get promoted. Then again you can also be a grunt get shot and die but the military is not as risky as most people assume.
Anyway, I don't think the problem is the multi-year commitment it's people that fail to maximize the value of that choice. I think the people who don't really know what they want are going and get a Masters / PHD in history because it's more fun than working a real job are the type of people who will fail at most things.
Anyway, I don't think the problem is the multi-year commitment it's people that fail to maximize the value of that choice. I think the people who don't really know what they want are going and get a Masters / PHD in history because it's more fun than working a real job are the type of people who will fail at most things.
Although the article claims that delaying employment with grad school doesn't make you money, there's some good empirical evidence that a delay can create beneficial cohort effects which pay huge dividends over a career.
If you get a job during a nasty economic time, you'll probably end up saddled with a lower salary. This salary then becomes the foundation on which all future raises are calculated (e.g., a 5% raise).
If, however, you got a job during a robust economic time, you'll start with a higher salary and a higher foundation on which all future raises are calculated.
The difference between waiting a year for an extra bump in salary can pay off a lot because the difference will be compounded over the years. This creates an economically rational incentive to avoid the workforce by entering grad school for a little while (no PhD programs) or by finally giving the startup thing a try.
If you get a job during a nasty economic time, you'll probably end up saddled with a lower salary. This salary then becomes the foundation on which all future raises are calculated (e.g., a 5% raise).
If, however, you got a job during a robust economic time, you'll start with a higher salary and a higher foundation on which all future raises are calculated.
The difference between waiting a year for an extra bump in salary can pay off a lot because the difference will be compounded over the years. This creates an economically rational incentive to avoid the workforce by entering grad school for a little while (no PhD programs) or by finally giving the startup thing a try.
I suppose the title of this should be "grad school doesn't make you money". You can make excellent cases for and against this, especially for the IT crowd. As a high school dropout, I certainly had no issues with making money in the tech sector. Going to collage expressly to increase my market value would be a silly idea.
That's not why I went back to school. I went seeking a new challenge, and found that I could do (most of) it alongside a nice IT salary. I picked a major completely unrelated to IT. I studied abroad in Holland (and helped an NGO with their IT needs). I came back to the US, worked for another year in IT, and then opted to return to Amsterdam for an accelerated masters program.
I have no idea what is going to happen next. I may stay in Europe, I may move back. I may work in IT, but I may be doing it in a new context. Soon I will have two degrees, and tons of writing/planning/speaking/collaborating experience (both from my work experience and in an academic setting). Add to that a new language, global friend network, and the ability to easily live and work on two continents, and that's not too bad.
A cost/benefit analysis on grad school can never be representative, because the experiences, skills, and research can't be quantified. You might become interested in a new field, create an operating system (see Linus Torvalds' masters thesis), or meet your future wife.
So yes, I agree with some of the points in the article, but I disagree with the premise.
That's not why I went back to school. I went seeking a new challenge, and found that I could do (most of) it alongside a nice IT salary. I picked a major completely unrelated to IT. I studied abroad in Holland (and helped an NGO with their IT needs). I came back to the US, worked for another year in IT, and then opted to return to Amsterdam for an accelerated masters program.
I have no idea what is going to happen next. I may stay in Europe, I may move back. I may work in IT, but I may be doing it in a new context. Soon I will have two degrees, and tons of writing/planning/speaking/collaborating experience (both from my work experience and in an academic setting). Add to that a new language, global friend network, and the ability to easily live and work on two continents, and that's not too bad.
A cost/benefit analysis on grad school can never be representative, because the experiences, skills, and research can't be quantified. You might become interested in a new field, create an operating system (see Linus Torvalds' masters thesis), or meet your future wife.
So yes, I agree with some of the points in the article, but I disagree with the premise.
"A cost/benefit analysis on grad school can never be representative, because the experiences, skills, and research can't be quantified. You might become interested in a new field, create an operating system (see Linus Torvalds' masters thesis), or meet your future wife."
Right. And if you join the Navy, you might get to see the world, and you might marry a beautiful Polynesian girl!
You don't do these sorts of things for the incidental benefits.
Right. And if you join the Navy, you might get to see the world, and you might marry a beautiful Polynesian girl!
You don't do these sorts of things for the incidental benefits.
Why not?
Plenty of (stupid) people join _ because they like the look of the uniform.
From the hacker side of things I don't think most people joined the NSA because of the salary and benefits. Doing a cost benefit analysis and ignoring the small things is missing the point.
Plenty of (stupid) people join _ because they like the look of the uniform.
From the hacker side of things I don't think most people joined the NSA because of the salary and benefits. Doing a cost benefit analysis and ignoring the small things is missing the point.
a lot of this advice should read as "don't _pay_ for grad school in a recession" and feels more directed toward arts & sciences than technical pursuits.
anyway, lots of free rides are available in interesting programs. go to grad school if you want to. it's a fun way to explore your interests for a couple years. write papers and travel the world on the school's dime. meet co-founders. work on self indulgent projects that could never exist in the real world.
i was half-baked after my undergrad... the extra time to bounce ideas off smart people in grad school was invaluable.
anyway, lots of free rides are available in interesting programs. go to grad school if you want to. it's a fun way to explore your interests for a couple years. write papers and travel the world on the school's dime. meet co-founders. work on self indulgent projects that could never exist in the real world.
i was half-baked after my undergrad... the extra time to bounce ideas off smart people in grad school was invaluable.
I've seen several articles on HN give advice on grad school. My advice is a reply to all of them: don't take advice on grad school from people in a different field from yours.
Based on personal observation as a long-time CS grad student, I take issue with #1 and #2.
Grad school only delays adulthood if you let it, and I know plenty of people who matured well during grad school as well as plenty who did not while working "real" jobs. You can also argue about whether delaying adulthood is actually "pointless" :)
There are many reasons to get a PhD in CS if you are not going to teach - industry research is active in many sub-fields, and those jobs often require a PhD - and if not, it certainly helps.
Finally, in my admittedly small sample, of people I know who graduated with a CS PhD, at least three received six-figure job offers from industry. I'm not sure what adjusting for IQ, education, and working hours looks like, but people don't make decisions adjusted for IQ - they are looking for absolute dollars, and a PhD can deliver.
Again, this is based on CS experience - I have heard less encouraging things for (e.g.) biology.