Language learning makes the brain grow, Swedish study suggests(sciencedaily.com)
sciencedaily.com
Language learning makes the brain grow, Swedish study suggests
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121008082953.htm
10 comments
> Having noted that, I'm curious about what other languages Hacker News participants speak.
I think there is a relatively large Japanese-English bilingual(ish) contingent on HN, myself included.
I think there is a relatively large Japanese-English bilingual(ish) contingent on HN, myself included.
From where? Ruby users? Japanophiles? Japanese?
German-English-Japanese here :)
幼年時代にアニメと日本のゲームに興味あった方がこんなサイトでは多いからかもしれませんね。
凄い！
German (Swiss German native), English and French. I'm actually learning French again, since I have forgotten nearly everything because I haven't used it in a long time (I have learned French before English). The funny thing is now I get some words practically "for free" thanks to my English vocabulary: strange->étrange, jealous->jaloux - the grammar still kills me, though.
Previous research from other groups has indicated that Alzheimer's disease has a later onset in bilingual or multilingual groups.
There is also research which shows that led poisoning affects higher IQ people slower, that is unless the led poisoning is high enough and then it's suddenly horrible.
Thus what I personally suspect is that the brain is very flexible and can sacrifice things like multilingualism and higher IQ to delay damage affecting more primitive brain functions. But that's all it is, delay.
There is also research which shows that led poisoning affects higher IQ people slower, that is unless the led poisoning is high enough and then it's suddenly horrible.
Thus what I personally suspect is that the brain is very flexible and can sacrifice things like multilingualism and higher IQ to delay damage affecting more primitive brain functions. But that's all it is, delay.
native in english, german and spanish here. As a side note, I'd be interested how many other HNers grew up bi(or tri)lingual and if they notice how bad they mix the languages up sometimes.
So, Deutsch und Spanisch lernen ist gut für mich? Tolle Nachrichten, dies ist nicht eine Zeitverschwendung!
> So, Deutsch und Spanisch lernen ist gut für mich? Tolle
> Nachrichten, dies ist nicht eine Zeitverschwendung!
> Deutsch und Spanisch lernen ist *also* gut fuer mich?But the phrase so muß auch sometimes is used in causal contexts; for example:
Sind zwei Zahlen gegen irgendeine Zahl prim, so muss auch ihr Produkt gegen dieselbe prim sein.[1]
Or if you're into Amtdeutsch:
Sind mindestens zehn Mitarbeiter mit der automatisierten Verarbeitung personenbezogener Daten nicht nur gelegentlich beschäftigt, so muss auch ein bDSB bestellt werden.[2]
Still not quite like the way "so" is used in English, of course.
[1] http://did.mat.uni-bayreuth.de/studium/veranstaltungen/winte...
[2] https://www.datenschutzzentrum.de/medizin/allgemein/apotbdsb...
Sind zwei Zahlen gegen irgendeine Zahl prim, so muss auch ihr Produkt gegen dieselbe prim sein.[1]
Or if you're into Amtdeutsch:
Sind mindestens zehn Mitarbeiter mit der automatisierten Verarbeitung personenbezogener Daten nicht nur gelegentlich beschäftigt, so muss auch ein bDSB bestellt werden.[2]
Still not quite like the way "so" is used in English, of course.
[1] http://did.mat.uni-bayreuth.de/studium/veranstaltungen/winte...
[2] https://www.datenschutzzentrum.de/medizin/allgemein/apotbdsb...
just started learning khmer, thanks for posting the article
I wonder if this also applies to learning a programming language. Programming is a form of communication.
I was wondering the same thing. I was once nearly fluent in Spanish, but let it slide because I never used it (in California...). On the other hand, I know many more programming languages than I did 10 or 20 years ago. Is my brain growing?
Yes, I was wondering the same thing. I bet MRI would show something different and interesting for skillful programmers. Even though no spoken counterpart is developed.
London cab drivers also show an increase when acquiring 'the knowledge'.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=london-taxi...
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=london-taxi...
While I'm completely in favor of people learning new languages (because it's fun, not to mention the communication aspect), I'm not sure how much I believe this particular study.
They admit that this is a unique school for languages: from zero to fluency in just over a year, by practicing every waking hour of every day, at a pace not seen in any other language school. Do the medicine and science students used as the control group study as hard as this, and on the same deadline? Did they try looking at people who studied languages, but not at breakneck speed?
It seems to me that it's entirely possible, based on this data, that the causative factor is not that they studied languages, but that they studied so intently. I don't doubt that science students study hard, but language immersion schools can make it so everything you read, write, hear, or speak all day every day is 100% in the language you're studying. That's a hard feat to match: how do you make eating breakfast or checking email a medical lesson?
They admit that this is a unique school for languages: from zero to fluency in just over a year, by practicing every waking hour of every day, at a pace not seen in any other language school. Do the medicine and science students used as the control group study as hard as this, and on the same deadline? Did they try looking at people who studied languages, but not at breakneck speed?
It seems to me that it's entirely possible, based on this data, that the causative factor is not that they studied languages, but that they studied so intently. I don't doubt that science students study hard, but language immersion schools can make it so everything you read, write, hear, or speak all day every day is 100% in the language you're studying. That's a hard feat to match: how do you make eating breakfast or checking email a medical lesson?
interesting. But from the very little I know about neural plasticity (ie. according to current research it continues throughout life see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroplasticity#cite_note-Rakic...), I'd want to ask how this is any more significant than other brain growth that occures any time you learn a new task.
To those who haven't, I wholeheartedly recommend learning another language. I think it's one of the most important things you can do for your mind—I believe it truly changes the way you think on a fundamental level.
Sometimes, when I tell people this, they argue that they're "too old" to learn a new language. When they do, I tell them the following story.
I was in Berlin this March, and I met a Belgian who spoke 6 or 7 languages fluently (as many Belgians apparently do). I was currently on "vacation" from a semester abroad in Italy, where I was taking an intro Italian class and really enjoying it so far. I mentioned this to the Belgian, but I expressed my concern that I was too old to become fluent:
"You can't learn new languages properly once you're my age."
He scoffed. "Sure you can. You just have to open your mind!"
That line stuck with me. Now, it may or may not be true that your brain can't fully "accept" new languages past a certain stage in your development, but that's not the point. The point is that I believed that I couldn't, and that belief was actively discouraging my progress. So I followed the Belgian's advice: I stopped telling myself I was too old, I went out of my way to speak the language, and I pushed myself harder to become conversational. By the end of the semester, I'd achieved that. (I'm by no means fluent, but I'd like to live there again soon with fluency as a goal.)
I do wish that I'd started earlier, because I've uncovered a real passion and knack for languages that I didn't know I'd had. But—perhaps contrary to popular belief—it's never too late to start.
(As an aside, I found it interesting that after just three months, I spoke Italian better than I spoke German after three years of high school classes. I attribute this partly to actually living in Italy, but also to a broken language learning system in our public education. But that may be a comment for another day.)
Sometimes, when I tell people this, they argue that they're "too old" to learn a new language. When they do, I tell them the following story.
I was in Berlin this March, and I met a Belgian who spoke 6 or 7 languages fluently (as many Belgians apparently do). I was currently on "vacation" from a semester abroad in Italy, where I was taking an intro Italian class and really enjoying it so far. I mentioned this to the Belgian, but I expressed my concern that I was too old to become fluent:
"You can't learn new languages properly once you're my age."
He scoffed. "Sure you can. You just have to open your mind!"
That line stuck with me. Now, it may or may not be true that your brain can't fully "accept" new languages past a certain stage in your development, but that's not the point. The point is that I believed that I couldn't, and that belief was actively discouraging my progress. So I followed the Belgian's advice: I stopped telling myself I was too old, I went out of my way to speak the language, and I pushed myself harder to become conversational. By the end of the semester, I'd achieved that. (I'm by no means fluent, but I'd like to live there again soon with fluency as a goal.)
I do wish that I'd started earlier, because I've uncovered a real passion and knack for languages that I didn't know I'd had. But—perhaps contrary to popular belief—it's never too late to start.
(As an aside, I found it interesting that after just three months, I spoke Italian better than I spoke German after three years of high school classes. I attribute this partly to actually living in Italy, but also to a broken language learning system in our public education. But that may be a comment for another day.)
I met a Belgian who spoke 6 or 7 languages fluently (as many Belgians apparently do)
I've been many times to Belgium and never knew anyone talking more than 4 languages. Of course that's not a rule, but "just" French, Dutch and German (residual) are official languages. In Wallonia (French-speaking regions), many people don't speak Dutch and there are a lot of people who just talk _some_ English (not to mention the difficulty to pronounce some sound).
I've been many times to Belgium and never knew anyone talking more than 4 languages. Of course that's not a rule, but "just" French, Dutch and German (residual) are official languages. In Wallonia (French-speaking regions), many people don't speak Dutch and there are a lot of people who just talk _some_ English (not to mention the difficulty to pronounce some sound).
It's likely lots of intellectually challenging activities produce structural/chemical changes in the brain:
piano tuning
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19398413
playing musical instrument
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/216086-Mental-muscle-six-w...
I would expect similar effects from learning diff eq's or haskell and maybe from challenging sports like rock climbing, paragliding, or maybe Ashtanga yoga.
piano tuning
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19398413
playing musical instrument
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/216086-Mental-muscle-six-w...
I would expect similar effects from learning diff eq's or haskell and maybe from challenging sports like rock climbing, paragliding, or maybe Ashtanga yoga.
I kind of wonder if this research would translate to _programming_ languages at all.
I suspect it doesn't. The reason I don't think so is because programming languages aren't spoken; even when we learn a dead natlang, like Latin, we are taught how to speak it even if we're missing the social context.
But that's a guess on top of a guess, so grain of salt and all.
But that's a guess on top of a guess, so grain of salt and all.
I would agree with that. Programming languages are more about logic and modeling (algorithms and data structures).
Learning a human language uses a part of the brain which has evolved for that purpose. It not only requires learning thousands of words, and mapping them to concepts, but also learning how they fit together (syntax) and change (morphology). And this needs to be done in real time, both recognition and production.
Learning a human language uses a part of the brain which has evolved for that purpose. It not only requires learning thousands of words, and mapping them to concepts, but also learning how they fit together (syntax) and change (morphology). And this needs to be done in real time, both recognition and production.
i think it's slightly different with speech language. you are under a much faster time constraint to understand and reply correctly the first time, whereas in programming depending on your style you might just try a bunch of stuff knowing that the computer won't get annoyed with you
I suspect that if it applies in any way, programming itself would be considered the language and the particular programming language you use would be more akin to a dialect.
Would this also apply if one has a good vocabulary within a single language?
This was on the SVT news yesterday, very interesting study...
"Previous research from other groups has indicated that Alzheimer's disease has a later onset in bilingual or multilingual groups."
That's reassuring to any of the many Hacker News readers who know some language besides English. A correlational finding like that, of course, doesn't demonstrate the direction of causation even if it is replicated many times. The kind of preliminary treatment-control finding reported in the press release submitted here would have to be replicated across several matches of experimental conditions and several variations of experimental conditions to figure out which learning programs, if any, reliably result in clinically meaningful increases in sizes of brain structures. (Then the next step would be following up on what the size changes really do for the patients over the long term.) All the usual considerations for evaluating preliminary research reports apply.
http://norvig.com/experiment-design.html
Having noted that, I'm curious about what other languages Hacker News participants speak. English is far from the only language known among us. Languages I have studied include (Modern Standard) Chinese to a proficiency level sufficient for employment as a translator and consecutive interpreter, German for reading professional materials, Japanese, Russian, other Sinitic languages, the original languages of the Bible, samplings of Latin and of various Romance languages, interesting constructed languages (conlangs), and others.
Here's a link to language-learning advice:
http://learninfreedom.org/languagebooks.html
Here's one of my favorite links about one constructed language:
http://www.xibalba.demon.co.uk/jbr/ranto/