The Best E-Mail Program Ever: How Gmail destroyed Outlook.(slate.com)
slate.com
The Best E-Mail Program Ever: How Gmail destroyed Outlook.
http://www.slate.com/toolbar.aspx?action=print&id=2210090
13 comments
Indeed. GMail has quite poor usability even when compared to other web clients - massively wide lines of text across the whole screen are really difficult to read. We got over this for regular websites when suck.com popularized snake text in the early 2000s. Why does gmail still use it?
What would you like to see in that quantum leap?
IMHO something like Chandler Project. PIM+PKM+GTD+Workflow
I was actually trying out Chandler earlier this week and I found it disappointingly hard to configure, and I'm not normally one to have that be the show stopper (cf occasionally spending 10 hrs figuring out how to build some unixy software and have it interact nicely with some sort of emacs package)
Mutt a la web 2.0 :)
I chuckled at that, but it's true!
I just end up using Mutt as my MUA and Gmail as my really fancy sorta-half-MDA. To finish it out I have to use something like fetchmail (which is okay), I usually end up using Mutt's built-in imap feature.
I just end up using Mutt as my MUA and Gmail as my really fancy sorta-half-MDA. To finish it out I have to use something like fetchmail (which is okay), I usually end up using Mutt's built-in imap feature.
I still greatly prefer Outlook + Exchange. Gmail was not built for power emailers or it would have folders (or at least hierarchical tags). It would have the ability to mark something for follow up, then have it pop up in your to-do list later. It would have ActiveSync and/or Blackberry server so it could support push email to the smartphones that people actually own. It would be able to sync your contacts and calendar from one phone/client to another. (Calendar + ActiveSync + Smartphone = personal assistant.) It would have crazy powerful rules like Outlook. It would have baked in RSS functionality. Need I continue?
I'm a power emailer and that's why I don't use Gmail's web interface. It's meant for casual users. I do use the service though due to free forwarding.
I'm a power emailer and that's why I don't use Gmail's web interface. It's meant for casual users. I do use the service though due to free forwarding.
Wow. I think Outlook is one of the shittiest pieces of software Microsoft has ever made. Lets see... it crashes all the time. It is dog slow. You shut it down and it doesn't really shut down.
The search is pathetic. This is huge. If you can't find your email, it's not very useful.
Organizing emails by folder isn't necessary if you have a powerful search facility. Gmail search is much faster than any outlook search and it actually gives you what you need. Manual folder organization is a waste of time.
Labels are useful with the rule wizard. And I have to say I find the rules on Gmail much nicer than Outlook. And unlike Outlook, you don't have to start up your client to run them.
You can sync your contacts, etc...Google has all kinds of sync softare (gry google-ing it).
You can access gmail from any phone that uses IMAP/POP (including blackberry).
You have 7 gigs of storage. Instead of the pathetic 100 meg that you usually see with corporate Exchange servers.
The spam filtering doesn't even compare. Google has mastered it.
You can hook gmail up to your own domain easily (google apps account).
And GMail is free.
I think you have it backwards. Gmail is the power user's email, outlook is for people who are stuck in the past.
The search is pathetic. This is huge. If you can't find your email, it's not very useful.
Organizing emails by folder isn't necessary if you have a powerful search facility. Gmail search is much faster than any outlook search and it actually gives you what you need. Manual folder organization is a waste of time.
Labels are useful with the rule wizard. And I have to say I find the rules on Gmail much nicer than Outlook. And unlike Outlook, you don't have to start up your client to run them.
You can sync your contacts, etc...Google has all kinds of sync softare (gry google-ing it).
You can access gmail from any phone that uses IMAP/POP (including blackberry).
You have 7 gigs of storage. Instead of the pathetic 100 meg that you usually see with corporate Exchange servers.
The spam filtering doesn't even compare. Google has mastered it.
You can hook gmail up to your own domain easily (google apps account).
And GMail is free.
I think you have it backwards. Gmail is the power user's email, outlook is for people who are stuck in the past.
I prefer GMail as well, but you're not making a very strong case for it. Outlook has its benefits and:
* The search has improved in Outlook 2007, plus there are 3rd party search tools and plugins (like Google Desktop, of course)
* Labels/Folders is not a big difference, and with a proper Exchange server set up, the Outlook rules do run on the server not just your client
* IMAP/POP is not the same as ActiveSync or Blackberry Server support. It's a big difference (Push vs Scheduled Pull) and is a dealbreaker for most Blackberry users.
* Gmail may give you 7 gigs, but Outlook/Exchange gives you as much as you have hard drive space for, and hard drives are awfully cheap these days. The fact that some corporations have crappy policies isn't Outlook's fault.
* GMail is free, but most people get Outlook with Office, which they were gonna buy anyway. Exchange server isn't free, but it's only a few grand. And, notably, it means you control and store all your own email, this makes GMail a dealbreaker for people for various security or legal reasons.
But yeah, the Outlook spam filtering sucks. There are plugins to make it better, but I still think GMail has the best anti-spam I've ever seen.
* The search has improved in Outlook 2007, plus there are 3rd party search tools and plugins (like Google Desktop, of course)
* Labels/Folders is not a big difference, and with a proper Exchange server set up, the Outlook rules do run on the server not just your client
* IMAP/POP is not the same as ActiveSync or Blackberry Server support. It's a big difference (Push vs Scheduled Pull) and is a dealbreaker for most Blackberry users.
* Gmail may give you 7 gigs, but Outlook/Exchange gives you as much as you have hard drive space for, and hard drives are awfully cheap these days. The fact that some corporations have crappy policies isn't Outlook's fault.
* GMail is free, but most people get Outlook with Office, which they were gonna buy anyway. Exchange server isn't free, but it's only a few grand. And, notably, it means you control and store all your own email, this makes GMail a dealbreaker for people for various security or legal reasons.
But yeah, the Outlook spam filtering sucks. There are plugins to make it better, but I still think GMail has the best anti-spam I've ever seen.
Maybe I have some magical copy of Outlook 2007. It's never crashed on me once. It's not speedy, by any means, but it stays loaded all the time, and once loaded (which isn't that much slower than firing up Firefox and loading Gmail) it's pretty responsive. Search is good now too, though I'd still give Gmail the win in that category.
Organizing by folders is a clear win for organization. Note that it is the #1 gripe about Gmail by far. Searching is well and good, but humans are visual animals. Clicking through your tree and simply seeing what you have there allows you to use it, to some extent, like a to-do list (especially combined with marking for followup) while keeping your inbox clean. If you polled all power-emailers, I'd guess at least 9 in 10 would tell you they want folders.
Rules on Gmail are incredibly limited relative to the ones on Outlook. You can only do a few basic things (which granted, covers 80% of what you want to do).
I don't want to have to Google around for various contact sync applications which may or may not be up to date, have to be maintained, etc. I want it to just work trivially, out of the box, the way ActiveSync and Blackberry do.
The difference between IMAP/POP on a phone and push+Exchange is like the difference between masturbation and sex.
Outlook has unlimited storage, as does Exchange server. You can't criticize it for storage simply because some corporations limit it. It's vastly superior there.
My Exchange account has a Barracuda spam filter, which despite it's hideous UI does the job better than my Gmail account. Gmail generates way too many false positives.
So no, I think I had it just right, which is exactly why Outlook costs money but people continue to pay it.
Organizing by folders is a clear win for organization. Note that it is the #1 gripe about Gmail by far. Searching is well and good, but humans are visual animals. Clicking through your tree and simply seeing what you have there allows you to use it, to some extent, like a to-do list (especially combined with marking for followup) while keeping your inbox clean. If you polled all power-emailers, I'd guess at least 9 in 10 would tell you they want folders.
Rules on Gmail are incredibly limited relative to the ones on Outlook. You can only do a few basic things (which granted, covers 80% of what you want to do).
I don't want to have to Google around for various contact sync applications which may or may not be up to date, have to be maintained, etc. I want it to just work trivially, out of the box, the way ActiveSync and Blackberry do.
The difference between IMAP/POP on a phone and push+Exchange is like the difference between masturbation and sex.
Outlook has unlimited storage, as does Exchange server. You can't criticize it for storage simply because some corporations limit it. It's vastly superior there.
My Exchange account has a Barracuda spam filter, which despite it's hideous UI does the job better than my Gmail account. Gmail generates way too many false positives.
So no, I think I had it just right, which is exactly why Outlook costs money but people continue to pay it.
[deleted]
Why do you use Windows? I find the restricted interface (e.g. inability to drastically alter the window management paradigm) a real UI deal-breaker.
There are shell replacements for explorer. Windows & has added a great deal many keyboard shortcuts too. But I'm not sure how your post related to the topic at hand.
I imagine he runs Windows because it runs apps like Outlook, which he needs for the reasons he stated above.
I imagine he runs Windows because it runs apps like Outlook, which he needs for the reasons he stated above.
Gmail isn't perfect. The only two real reasons why I use Gmail and not Outlook are:
- I can access it online from anywhere without configuring much.
- Because of the good spam filter, saves me from installing Mail Washer or other anti spam tools.
Couple of things I don't like about Gmail:
- Still doesn't have folders (labels are OK but they don't have any kind of hierarchy).
- I miss the drag&drop functionality from Outlook (e.g. mark a couple of emails and drop them into some folder or the trashcan, much faster than having to select the label from that pulldown).
- It's missing desktop alerts. Sometimes they are annoying, but with some configuring they are pretty useful at work. I have that Firefox extension to check incoming emails @ Gmail, but I can't configure it to show only certain emails.
Of course Outlook isn't perfect either, but I don't think it has been "destroyed" yet.
- I can access it online from anywhere without configuring much.
- Because of the good spam filter, saves me from installing Mail Washer or other anti spam tools.
Couple of things I don't like about Gmail:
- Still doesn't have folders (labels are OK but they don't have any kind of hierarchy).
- I miss the drag&drop functionality from Outlook (e.g. mark a couple of emails and drop them into some folder or the trashcan, much faster than having to select the label from that pulldown).
- It's missing desktop alerts. Sometimes they are annoying, but with some configuring they are pretty useful at work. I have that Firefox extension to check incoming emails @ Gmail, but I can't configure it to show only certain emails.
Of course Outlook isn't perfect either, but I don't think it has been "destroyed" yet.
If you're on OS X I would recommend Google Notifier for getting desktop alerts.
http://toolbar.google.com/gmail-helper/notifier_mac.html
I have to admit that I want the drag and drop functionality for assigning labels. I wonder if that is just a Greasemonkey script away.
http://toolbar.google.com/gmail-helper/notifier_mac.html
I have to admit that I want the drag and drop functionality for assigning labels. I wonder if that is just a Greasemonkey script away.
Outlook Also allows you to do the same:
- access office & personal email from the web
- use a browser to access email
For first, your exchange server needs to be configured and for second check the Outlook Web Access.
For first, your exchange server needs to be configured and for second check the Outlook Web Access.
I use Thunderbird with Gmail. I still get the first two, and the last three too.
Re: folders & hierarchy, using a combination of labels named parent, parent/child1, parent/child2, etc. works pefectly for me. If you're on firefox the Better Gmail extension will actually turn these into expandable folders. Its not the perfect solution - but it works more than well enough for me.
If you use Gtalk, it'll pop up (silently) when you get a new email.
While I was using Windows I found Digsby to be the best of the IM clients that I tested.
It gave the notifications for gmail, but also twitter, facebook and handled a couple of my IM accounts.
Very useful, pity no client for linux or mac yet :\
It gave the notifications for gmail, but also twitter, facebook and handled a couple of my IM accounts.
Very useful, pity no client for linux or mac yet :\
I don't like giving Digsby my login information for everyone of my sites. Especially after they ask you to install 4 or 5 toolbars and spyware.
I'd rather use pidgin or just gtalk.
I'd rather use pidgin or just gtalk.
I use gmail hotkeys to deal with that annoying dropdown.
What they need is a "mark as 'foo'" hotkey that is similar to the "go to label" hotkey (currently in gmail labs).
What they need is a "mark as 'foo'" hotkey that is similar to the "go to label" hotkey (currently in gmail labs).
The title of this post (not the related article) is misleading. While I wish Outlook would go down in flames, it's alive and well in just about every corporation in America. Gmail hasn't destroyed it. I'm not even sure that Gmail is all that great of a product, storage limits aside. It could be a heck of a lot better with some UI love.
As far as I'm aware Gmail is far behind even the other webmail providers.
Behind how? I've been using it for a while and have missed nothing; am I missing out on something I don't even know about?
I think he meant behind in terms of number of users. Gmail is third, if I remember correctly (after Yahoo and Hotmail)
Everyone I know has a hotmail account. It's everyone's throwaway-give-to-spammers account. Those same people have all slowly migrated to using their Gmail address for their most important emails. So if you look only at number of users, Gmail might be behind. But if you were to know the number of active users, I would guess Gmail is way ahead.
Why guess? :)
http://www.email-marketing-reports.com/metrics/email-statist...
If you're inclined to believe what the companies say about its own services.
http://www.email-marketing-reports.com/metrics/email-statist...
If you're inclined to believe what the companies say about its own services.
Gmail accounts are way better for throwaway-give-to-spammers. I forward all mail to myself and autolabel, mark as read, archive.
Works great, I check the label when I need to find a registration email.
Works great, I check the label when I need to find a registration email.
Heh, I think it has something to do with where you are. I don't know a single person with a hotmail account, know 2 with a yahoo account, and everyone else has a gmail account. (So, what? 100+:2:0?)
Actually I would say, "The Best Spam Filter Ever" - Gmail
Gmail's facilities for building contact lists are still abominably poor. I switch to the old version every time I need to build a list to, for example, contact all students in a class I teach.
This is true. There is no way to merge contacts (if it auto-adds the same person as two different people), which makes reasonably contact lists frustrating.
Why is everyone giving the credit to Gmail? It's Gmail + Gears.
Anyway, compared to desktop email clients, Gmail still lacks a lot of features. Although the spam filtering and search does put it in a class by itself.
Something tells me that person-to-person asynchronous messaging hasn't been solved forever. Call it a hunch.
Anyway, compared to desktop email clients, Gmail still lacks a lot of features. Although the spam filtering and search does put it in a class by itself.
Something tells me that person-to-person asynchronous messaging hasn't been solved forever. Call it a hunch.
Now imagine if an email service/client actually got a large number of people to start using encryption. That would be an impressive feat.
Agreed. Encryption/signing is easy with Claws mail (which is what I use on Linux) but Gmail doesn't seem to make any concessions.
You can encrypt Gmail with something like FireGPG, a Firefox plugin:
http://getfiregpg.org
I use Enigmail with Thunderbird, but the number of people I use it with is very small.
The desire to have ubiquitous email access makes the implementation of secure email even more difficult. How do receive encrypted messages on all of your devices? Do you store a copy of your private key on each device? What about when you're away from your devices? Would you trust a server to host your private key?
http://getfiregpg.org
I use Enigmail with Thunderbird, but the number of people I use it with is very small.
The desire to have ubiquitous email access makes the implementation of secure email even more difficult. How do receive encrypted messages on all of your devices? Do you store a copy of your private key on each device? What about when you're away from your devices? Would you trust a server to host your private key?
Claws +1, also for stability, configurations, fast response, and fast search.
Yeah sure, but can you wait till Gmail is out of beta? Please?
While GMail works fantastic, I do not see how I would manage my work email without folders or the ability to sort per message/ sender. And how about the tight integration with Calendar or being able to sync with your mobile device. No I don't want to search all the time.
There is lot to improve for email apps. But to say Gmail killed Outlook is only a sensational statement. A cheap trick that is.
While GMail works fantastic, I do not see how I would manage my work email without folders or the ability to sort per message/ sender. And how about the tight integration with Calendar or being able to sync with your mobile device. No I don't want to search all the time.
There is lot to improve for email apps. But to say Gmail killed Outlook is only a sensational statement. A cheap trick that is.
ya. typing "from: seshagiric" is pretty tough.
as far as organizing, set up a filter and create a label. that's what I do. I have half a dozen email lists I manage this way. Or get the Better Gmail firefox extension for folders, although if you think about it a label is the same as a folder anyway.
as far as organizing, set up a filter and create a label. that's what I do. I have half a dozen email lists I manage this way. Or get the Better Gmail firefox extension for folders, although if you think about it a label is the same as a folder anyway.
A couple tips:
Gmail Notifier http://toolbar.google.com/gmail-helper/notifier_mac.html
This firefox extension gives you folders (among other cool features): https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/6076
Gmail Notifier http://toolbar.google.com/gmail-helper/notifier_mac.html
This firefox extension gives you folders (among other cool features): https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/6076
Seconded, plus there is (at least one) for Linux as well:
http://gmail-notify.sourceforge.net/
http://gmail-notify.sourceforge.net/
Doesn't anyone else use Thunderbird?
Spam filtering is the only thing in Gmail I'm jealous of. I wonder/wish google would offer that as a service I'd pay for that. [I think google has the corpus/skills/infrastructure to do it better than anyone else can approach]
Spam filtering is the only thing in Gmail I'm jealous of. I wonder/wish google would offer that as a service I'd pay for that. [I think google has the corpus/skills/infrastructure to do it better than anyone else can approach]
And somehow he didn't even mention that GMail is free and comes with an email address, while Outlook you have to pay for and still requires email hosting (ideally on Exchange if you want to use all the features)
Until I can label messages without touching the mouse (Greasmonkey and the like don't count), gmail has certainly not "reached perfection".
Gmail easily beats the old-school bunch, but the quantum leap of email is definitely still ahead of us.