Is Apple Losing Its Way?(technologyreview.com)
technologyreview.com
Is Apple Losing Its Way?
http://www.technologyreview.com/news/429315/is-apple-losing-its-way/
9 comments
> However, Apple is certainly not innovating like they were when Steve was around and the market itself, in particular the smartphone market, is becoming very mature - smartphones can only get so small, thin and fast before they reach an apex. And think of the iPhone in relation to the Porsche 911. It's more or less the same car for the past 50 years. Every 2-3 years Porsche makes it better. It works for them, the consumer, the brand and the legacy. I'm not sure why some people were expecting a Phone in the i5 that would make them breakfast but it's a better product than already great product in the 5.
That is a great way of saying it... love the Porsche analogy.
However, I challenge you on one point. I don't think Apple EVER innovated. Rather, they've iterated. And they did this wonderfully. Apple is notorious for not innovating but rather taking already established ideas and doing them much, much better than even the people who originally did them. That is their secret. They are great and simplifying and making it oh, so pretty.
EDIT: I should caveat the above to the modern Apple era. Post 2001 or so.
And not to take anything away from this, but when most people say "innovate" they typically mean something other than what I say above. In reality, the groundbreaking new features are never from Apple. If you looked at the marketplace, someone, somewhere already had those features. Apple just did it better a year later. That is what they do, no shame in it either...but they are not an innovative company.
That is a great way of saying it... love the Porsche analogy.
However, I challenge you on one point. I don't think Apple EVER innovated. Rather, they've iterated. And they did this wonderfully. Apple is notorious for not innovating but rather taking already established ideas and doing them much, much better than even the people who originally did them. That is their secret. They are great and simplifying and making it oh, so pretty.
EDIT: I should caveat the above to the modern Apple era. Post 2001 or so.
And not to take anything away from this, but when most people say "innovate" they typically mean something other than what I say above. In reality, the groundbreaking new features are never from Apple. If you looked at the marketplace, someone, somewhere already had those features. Apple just did it better a year later. That is what they do, no shame in it either...but they are not an innovative company.
> most people say "innovate" they typically mean something other than what I say above.
Have you considered the possibility that you're misusing the word?
The word you're describing is "invent". But you'd still be violently wrong about Apple not doing it.
Have you considered the possibility that you're misusing the word?
The word you're describing is "invent". But you'd still be violently wrong about Apple not doing it.
Your Porsche analogy is awkward. Computer vs car industry analogies generally goes like “If GM had kept up with the technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon.”,
and i don't see a reason for this to change anytime soon, for obvious reasons (computer software and hardware are much easier to update and innovate then mechanical systems are).
Great comment! From your wikipedia link:
"...any headline which ends in a question mark can be answered by the word "no". The reason why journalists use that style of headline is that they know the story is probably bollocks..."
Predictable comment, IMO.
Quoting Betteridge's Law of Headlines is this season's "You're not Google's customer, you're their product".
I can predict with great accuracy whether or not I'll see it referenced in any given HN comment thread based on the headline (ironically, in this case if the headline ends in a question mark, the answer is yes. If the headline is asking something negative about Apple, the answer is double yes).
Quoting Betteridge's Law of Headlines is this season's "You're not Google's customer, you're their product".
I can predict with great accuracy whether or not I'll see it referenced in any given HN comment thread based on the headline (ironically, in this case if the headline ends in a question mark, the answer is yes. If the headline is asking something negative about Apple, the answer is double yes).
Quoting Betteridge's Law of Headlines is this season's "You're not Google's customer, you're their product".
How is that not a true statement? A customer is somebody who gives you money. There's really no other definition at the end of the day.
How is that not a true statement? A customer is somebody who gives you money. There's really no other definition at the end of the day.
I didn't say nor mean to imply that either statement was untrue, I'm just noting a pattern wherein certain meme phrases take hold on HN and then get over-quoted for the next 6 months or so. Referencing Betteridge's Law is currently one of the more popular current instances of this.
This is not entirely unlike reddit or 4chan or wherever, except the over-quoted phrases are some sort of startup/media/business wisdom rather than some geeky pop culture reference.
This is not entirely unlike reddit or 4chan or wherever, except the over-quoted phrases are some sort of startup/media/business wisdom rather than some geeky pop culture reference.
Well, its better than the "Apple sucks!" And "This new product from Apple [which is actually really great] is terrible and Apple's going to fail!"
I remember that when people were whining that the iPod sucked compared to archos media players and predicted it would fail.
This season its popular to claim that somehow the magical Steve Jobs's death means the end of Apple --- always from people who hope it is true.
The sad thing is, They are the ones who have all along insisted Steve Jobs was magical, becuase they refuse to understand why Apple is a success.
Which is why they constantly bash Apple products and claim they will fail (And then are silent about them when they win.)
iOS Maps is already far better than google maps. Further, Google maps hasn't really progressed in the last decade, while iOS Maps clearly is progressing pretty quickly.
The iPhone was going to suck, the iPas was the worst product name ever.... hell, this tradition goes all the way back to the original mac before most HN readres (I suspect) were even born.
I'm tired of the "Apple's product sucks because I don't know anything about technology or design but am a fan of [competitor]" junk.
I remember that when people were whining that the iPod sucked compared to archos media players and predicted it would fail.
This season its popular to claim that somehow the magical Steve Jobs's death means the end of Apple --- always from people who hope it is true.
The sad thing is, They are the ones who have all along insisted Steve Jobs was magical, becuase they refuse to understand why Apple is a success.
Which is why they constantly bash Apple products and claim they will fail (And then are silent about them when they win.)
iOS Maps is already far better than google maps. Further, Google maps hasn't really progressed in the last decade, while iOS Maps clearly is progressing pretty quickly.
The iPhone was going to suck, the iPas was the worst product name ever.... hell, this tradition goes all the way back to the original mac before most HN readres (I suspect) were even born.
I'm tired of the "Apple's product sucks because I don't know anything about technology or design but am a fan of [competitor]" junk.
"iOS Maps is already far better than google maps. Further, Google maps hasn't really progressed in the last decade, while iOS Maps clearly is progressing pretty quickly."
It has been a long while since I've used an iPhone on a daily basis (iPhone 3G for nearly two years), so perhaps what you're saying is correct for the iOS version of Google Maps, but the Android version has progressed tremendously and it continues to do so. Google Maps/Nav is 90% of the reason I'd never even consider using a non-Android phone platform right now.
"I'm tired of the "Apple's product sucks because I don't know anything about technology or design but am a fan of [competitor]" junk."
This goes both ways. Yes, there are Android fanbois who are overly critical and overly defensive, but there are at least an equal number of Apple fanbois. If you only notice one side of this and noticing that makes you super defensive enough to post about it, odds are you yourself are a bit too much of a fanboi.
It has been a long while since I've used an iPhone on a daily basis (iPhone 3G for nearly two years), so perhaps what you're saying is correct for the iOS version of Google Maps, but the Android version has progressed tremendously and it continues to do so. Google Maps/Nav is 90% of the reason I'd never even consider using a non-Android phone platform right now.
"I'm tired of the "Apple's product sucks because I don't know anything about technology or design but am a fan of [competitor]" junk."
This goes both ways. Yes, there are Android fanbois who are overly critical and overly defensive, but there are at least an equal number of Apple fanbois. If you only notice one side of this and noticing that makes you super defensive enough to post about it, odds are you yourself are a bit too much of a fanboi.
iOS Maps is already far better than google maps. Further, Google maps hasn't really progressed in the last decade
Sober up, then post.
Sober up, then post.
A customer is someone who pays for your product, and you pay Google by paying ad impressions as long as you use the service.. Ad impressions are a valuable good that can be exchanged for money.
You being Google's product, that they sold, would imply that Google is guilty of slavery, and that you are now the property of the buyer.
You being Google's product, that they sold, would imply that Google is guilty of slavery, and that you are now the property of the buyer.
We're their product. Advertising is the customer.
IMO, it's a pretty sorry excuse for a law. While you can often answer with "no" and be accurate, it doesn't happen enough to say "always" or "any". Reading through my RSS feeds, I see about 20 headlines ending in question marks. Only 12 of them can be accurately answered with "no".
I think we officially need an "Hacker News Law of Submissions": any submission which ends in a question mark will have a comment pointing to Betteridges Law in its comment thread. http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/comments&q=http%3...
100%
"The direction of Apple to go into maps is the right direction, but people will probably start questioning whether Apple products are as wonderful. It's been almost like a cult. We can always forgive people for one mistake, and for the post-Steve-Jobs era, this is the most significant. Another slip of this kind, people will start questioning Apple."
Apple has done lots of mistakes in the past. I've been an user of their products for only a few years, but even so I know.
It's not repeated mistakes that sink a company. It's unfixed mistakes. If users will find alternatives to iOS6 map app, they will use them. It's been like only a week since the new OS version was released. Not everyone has updated yet. People have been warned.
And the 'apple is cult/fanboys are blind followers' argument is one of the worst. Just like when non-religious persons belittle religious persons for being irrational, blind and manipulated. Which is stupid because it's not (generally) true.
Many make educated and conscious decisions. Buying a product is partially an irrational decision. BUT, the fact that Apple products produce those irrational decisions is the key to understanding the quality and the design thought that went into the products. And the fact that people keep on buying them, with every new version, tells that these products are really good. It's not magic. It's an illusion. It's just good products, and it's a damn successful company.
Mistakes can be fixed. Fixed ideas, hardly.
Apple has done lots of mistakes in the past. I've been an user of their products for only a few years, but even so I know.
It's not repeated mistakes that sink a company. It's unfixed mistakes. If users will find alternatives to iOS6 map app, they will use them. It's been like only a week since the new OS version was released. Not everyone has updated yet. People have been warned.
And the 'apple is cult/fanboys are blind followers' argument is one of the worst. Just like when non-religious persons belittle religious persons for being irrational, blind and manipulated. Which is stupid because it's not (generally) true.
Many make educated and conscious decisions. Buying a product is partially an irrational decision. BUT, the fact that Apple products produce those irrational decisions is the key to understanding the quality and the design thought that went into the products. And the fact that people keep on buying them, with every new version, tells that these products are really good. It's not magic. It's an illusion. It's just good products, and it's a damn successful company.
Mistakes can be fixed. Fixed ideas, hardly.
Ok. We get it. Apple maps are subpar (for some people), they need to improve them soon. Is this YET ANOTHER STORY about it so interesting that it hits HN main page?
Btw, I've tried them and while there are some quirks, I really like them. Being vector is a huge win, it loads up quickly and whole experience is a lot smoother. As for accuracy, I live in a small town in Poland (not exactly Apple's main point of interest) and it's as accurate as Google Maps were.
Btw, I've tried them and while there are some quirks, I really like them. Being vector is a huge win, it loads up quickly and whole experience is a lot smoother. As for accuracy, I live in a small town in Poland (not exactly Apple's main point of interest) and it's as accurate as Google Maps were.
Its the Apple haters having their day in the sun. They have to have something to distract them from their rubbishy phones.
Apple is huge. When a company gets as big as Apple does, you'll always be able to find cracks and missteps.
Where I think Apple is failing is filling the gap of Jobs, and I don't mean the man, but the fear. Jobs was notorious for being an asshole and firing whole teams if they didn't deliver to "his standard". Without this fear, I wonder if things will begin to come out that would otherwise never have seen the light of day.
IMO, the last few products Apple has released have been much worse than the previous few. Lion was a bad release, Mountain Lion was better, but generally not a great release either. The new Nano with the round icons is, well, horrible looking. Would Jobs have let that go out? Would the team release that if Jobs was still alive and in charge?
I'm actually a huge fan of individuals being able to make autonomous decisions. I think that leads to healthier companies and better products. HOWEVER, Apple has never been structured that way and it could take some time before natural leaders step up inside the company. They have the money to weather storms and lets face it, the Apple fans are going to give them many years of free passes so there really isn't a fear of them ending anytime soon.
Where I think Apple is failing is filling the gap of Jobs, and I don't mean the man, but the fear. Jobs was notorious for being an asshole and firing whole teams if they didn't deliver to "his standard". Without this fear, I wonder if things will begin to come out that would otherwise never have seen the light of day.
IMO, the last few products Apple has released have been much worse than the previous few. Lion was a bad release, Mountain Lion was better, but generally not a great release either. The new Nano with the round icons is, well, horrible looking. Would Jobs have let that go out? Would the team release that if Jobs was still alive and in charge?
I'm actually a huge fan of individuals being able to make autonomous decisions. I think that leads to healthier companies and better products. HOWEVER, Apple has never been structured that way and it could take some time before natural leaders step up inside the company. They have the money to weather storms and lets face it, the Apple fans are going to give them many years of free passes so there really isn't a fear of them ending anytime soon.
"Google Maps is not available as an iPhone app, but Google Maps can still be used on a Firefox browser."
I stopped reading at this point.
I stopped reading at this point.
To answer the question in the headline. No, the company and brand has always been "arrogant" and occasionally "entitled". Just look at the iPhone 4 antenna problem. This is the same thing, they lose airports and train stations. Then they tell people to use it so they can find all the problems so they can start fixing it. I don't know about you people but I use the map app but I use it to find locations where I haven't been before. I find the response slightly arrogant to this whole maps deal. It is "your holding it wrong" all over again.
I have a bunch of Apple devices. But this maps thing and other things like Gatekeeper makes me hesitant to buy a device that is more expensive than the competitors. The thing is that I don't feel that the premium isn't simply worth it anymore.
I have a bunch of Apple devices. But this maps thing and other things like Gatekeeper makes me hesitant to buy a device that is more expensive than the competitors. The thing is that I don't feel that the premium isn't simply worth it anymore.
i'm no apple fan and i don't own any apple products but even i can say that companies make mistakes (after all its people who run them). its how they come out of the bad situation that counts.
obviously bad map app is an inconvenience especially when you buy a premium product that claims that it just works.
is it the end though? no.
did apple make more serious mistakes in the past? certainly, but it didnt kill them
just like the antenna issue, people will complain for a bit, and in a couple of month's time it won't be in the headlines anymore assuming they FIX it. if they don't then we should start considering that they might have lost their way.
obviously bad map app is an inconvenience especially when you buy a premium product that claims that it just works.
is it the end though? no.
did apple make more serious mistakes in the past? certainly, but it didnt kill them
just like the antenna issue, people will complain for a bit, and in a couple of month's time it won't be in the headlines anymore assuming they FIX it. if they don't then we should start considering that they might have lost their way.
A lot of people feel the need to complain for some reason but I don't quite understand why. I don't see a smoking gun. There are no broken antennas, and MobileMe didn't crash. Sounds like a company just released a brand new product and there are some small bugs to work out. Which it what I would expect, from any company. We all know Samsung has bugs, MS Windows 8 has bugs, Nokia 920 has bugs. When I got a Galaxy S, 2 years ago, I received an OTA update v2.2.2, it bricked my phone. It bricked a lot of peoples phones. They stopped doing OTAs after that. Then the GPS didn't work. That was sort of accepted as a flaw in the GS v2.2.2. I had to root my phone and run a third party hack to get it to work. The mp3 player had a button to view music by album but tapping it would crash the player. That wasn't fixed until much later, v2.3.4, 9months after google released it. Had to use my brothers PC, install software on PC to install sw update on phone. Ridiculous. Virtually no updates to touchwiz UI. Garbage! Calls were always dropped constantly. Then I got a GS2. It would crash... all the time. I had to reboot nearly everyday. That is sort of expected with the GS2. Calls were dropped all the time. Text messages wound't come through on Google Voice. The control buttons on the headphones worked erratically but mostly not at all. TouchWiz is a disaster. Battery life was maybe 8 hours of standby. I had to charge to phone two times a day. The phone IS TOO FUCKING BIG! Trying to use the phone one handed, the thumb muscle would touch the screen before the tip of the thumb causing unintentional taps. These are 'real' user issues. What droidfans aren't saying is that Android is rough, and they like to fiddle with it, they like to mod it and install patches, and break it and reinstall it, and fuck with it some more. This is why there is no waiting lines for Samsung products. The 'sheeple' like expensive shit that works. I mean works as in 'doesn't crash everyday', not 'boo hoo, the bridge in my maps looks funny [frown-face], this is awful I think I will go shoot myself!1!!'
I understand people are having a problem with maps but most of the blogs are complete hyperbole right now, and the maps are working great for me in NYC. Public transit was never very helpful by google maps because "public transit is underground!" Welcome to the big city. Thus no network connectivity. No one is having "real" problems with the new iPhone. This is all BS for the purpose of getting visitors to a shitty blog. No Apple has not lost its way. iPhone 5 is amazing says nearly all reports. iOS 6 is great. There are some bugs. The total package is what I would expect from Apple, past or present.
I understand people are having a problem with maps but most of the blogs are complete hyperbole right now, and the maps are working great for me in NYC. Public transit was never very helpful by google maps because "public transit is underground!" Welcome to the big city. Thus no network connectivity. No one is having "real" problems with the new iPhone. This is all BS for the purpose of getting visitors to a shitty blog. No Apple has not lost its way. iPhone 5 is amazing says nearly all reports. iOS 6 is great. There are some bugs. The total package is what I would expect from Apple, past or present.
However, Apple is certainly not innovating like they were when Steve was around and the market itself, in particular the smartphone market, is becoming very mature - smartphones can only get so small, thin and fast before they reach an apex. And think of the iPhone in relation to the Porsche 911. It's more or less the same car for the past 50 years. Every 2-3 years Porsche makes it better. It works for them, the consumer, the brand and the legacy. I'm not sure why some people were expecting a Phone in the i5 that would make them breakfast but it's a better product than already great product in the 5.
At this point, Apple is such a massive company lead by not a visionary, but a supply chain genius in Tim Cook.
Ive leads design, but Cook has the final say. Forstall and the iOS team don't really care to shift much and take risk in exciting new features (after all, why take risk, if it ain't broke, don't fix it). That's why there are barely any new and groundbreaking features in iOS 6 vs. 5 (BS on your "200 new features" - nothing but minor tweaks) Do not disturb? Come on. It's nice but not a keynote slide.
I LOVE Apple products, I used to destroy my eyes on Apple IIs back in the day and have always loved what they do. I've followed (and had) most every product they've launched. I still have a Newton somewhere and once in a while play Sim City on OS 9 classic like a super-nerd.
I also think consumerism expects A LOT from this company. When Steve was on stage announcing products and wowing audiences, there was innovation, risks, big bets were being placed on products - now, the empire just runs, like a conveyor belt. Every year, a minor upgrade. It works. It sells. It's fine. They're not losing their way, they are just becoming a part of the status quo. They're not challenging anything. At least in the last year or so. Leadership is strong but they're going in a straight line. Calculated moves.
You can't blame them - this is a massive public company and one mistake will lead to an uproar. The question is - will Apple's biggest mistake be not taking a risk and innovating.
Remember, even the Roman Empire fell.