APC, $49 Android computer, now accepting pre-orders(apc.io)
apc.io
APC, $49 Android computer, now accepting pre-orders
http://apc.io/order/pre-order/
16 comments
In my opinion, they have started working on that before the release of ICS..
I am curious about the user experience of this product. I am excited to see such a cheap PC, I have never been impressed by the usage of mouse/keyboard as inputs for Android. Android-x86 was a pain to use, and not only because it was buggy.
I am curious about the user experience of this product. I am excited to see such a cheap PC, I have never been impressed by the usage of mouse/keyboard as inputs for Android. Android-x86 was a pain to use, and not only because it was buggy.
Probably more a supply chain isssue.
Every component on this thing is bargain basement, so you use whatever driver the maker of the SoC core supplied. They are also bargain basement so have used whatever driver the GPU maker supplied.
So you are really using components that were 'new' a couple of years ago. The makers of this would have to put considerable time/money into making 4.0 drivers for components that are supplied through a chain of subcontractors none of who have the technical ability to help.
It is one of the big ironies of opensource Android that in a way it's a lot less open than a regular PC.
Every component on this thing is bargain basement, so you use whatever driver the maker of the SoC core supplied. They are also bargain basement so have used whatever driver the GPU maker supplied.
So you are really using components that were 'new' a couple of years ago. The makers of this would have to put considerable time/money into making 4.0 drivers for components that are supplied through a chain of subcontractors none of who have the technical ability to help.
It is one of the big ironies of opensource Android that in a way it's a lot less open than a regular PC.
So is it impossible or impractical because of the components not meeting Android 4.0 requirements, or is it because of software and driver issues?
I've never really seen a clear answer. Whatever the Cyanogen Mod team is up to, it must be damned tricky.
I've never really seen a clear answer. Whatever the Cyanogen Mod team is up to, it must be damned tricky.
The components might meet Android 4 requirements but you often don't have the info needed to write drivers for them
Typically for lower end parts the makers implemented the simplest cheapest thing they could get away with - so buggy limited and out of date drivers - and they have bought in modules from others, so nobody has the complete specs.
For better system the code in the SoC (and GPU especially) is what distinguishes it from other models and competitors so they are very careful about who they give details out to. Otherwise you could buy their $1 SoC and turn on the features in the $5 part.
If you are a Samsung or an Apple you can control the supply chain better and insist on having the info and compliant drivers - but most of these are aimed at mobile phone makers who rely on you having to buy a new model every 18months rather than doing updates.
Cyanogen etc do a very good job of custom kernels but they can rarely insert a much newer driver into an older chipset.
Typically for lower end parts the makers implemented the simplest cheapest thing they could get away with - so buggy limited and out of date drivers - and they have bought in modules from others, so nobody has the complete specs.
For better system the code in the SoC (and GPU especially) is what distinguishes it from other models and competitors so they are very careful about who they give details out to. Otherwise you could buy their $1 SoC and turn on the features in the $5 part.
If you are a Samsung or an Apple you can control the supply chain better and insist on having the info and compliant drivers - but most of these are aimed at mobile phone makers who rely on you having to buy a new model every 18months rather than doing updates.
Cyanogen etc do a very good job of custom kernels but they can rarely insert a much newer driver into an older chipset.
For $10 more (when you include shipping), you can get a Logitech Revue on Amazon.
* Google TV/Android 3.0 instead of Android 2.3
* Access to Google Play market, which this doesn't have
* 802.11b/g/n wifi, which this doesn't have
* A really nice wireless keyboard+touchpad controller
* Essentially identical power profile
* Logitech Harmony software built in; it can control just about every TV, receiver, DVD player, etc. in existence
* Google TV/Android 3.0 instead of Android 2.3
* Access to Google Play market, which this doesn't have
* 802.11b/g/n wifi, which this doesn't have
* A really nice wireless keyboard+touchpad controller
* Essentially identical power profile
* Logitech Harmony software built in; it can control just about every TV, receiver, DVD player, etc. in existence
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I think really nice is a bit of an exaggeration about the keyboard.
It's the best living room keyboard I've ever used. People have been buying them separately from the Revue just to use them with their other HTPC setups.
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"Chip VIA 800MHz Processor"
I'm confused by this. Is it a "VIA processor" or an ARM processor, made by VIA? I hope they didn't change the CPU mid-way with one of their own.
Edit: In their PR they say it's a "VIA WonderMedia ARM 11 SoC".
http://apc.io/files/2012/05/PR120522-APC-Final.pdf
I'm confused by this. Is it a "VIA processor" or an ARM processor, made by VIA? I hope they didn't change the CPU mid-way with one of their own.
Edit: In their PR they say it's a "VIA WonderMedia ARM 11 SoC".
http://apc.io/files/2012/05/PR120522-APC-Final.pdf
ARM is a core design, there are no processors made by ARM - they only sell the IP. You can have an Apple ARM or a Samsung ARM or in this case a VIA ARM
This entire machine is made by VIA who also make the CPU. VIA are more famous for making low power x86 clones but that's nothing to do with this.
This entire machine is made by VIA who also make the CPU. VIA are more famous for making low power x86 clones but that's nothing to do with this.
Seems like they are hiding part of the cost in shipping. They are even charging $30 to deliver to Asia.
Carries a $38 shipping charge for US/Canada/Europe
For close to that, you could easily get an ICS device from dealextreme.
For a $100 with no shipping cost you can get something with an A9.
http://dx.com/p/google-android-4-0-hdmi-tv-box-w-4gb-wifi-rj...
For a $100 with no shipping cost you can get something with an A9.
http://dx.com/p/google-android-4-0-hdmi-tv-box-w-4gb-wifi-rj...
They're email has bad wording then: "APC can be shipped worldwide at a price of $49."
I tried peordering just after I got the email but they were already out of stock supposedly.
I tried peordering just after I got the email but they were already out of stock supposedly.
It probably doesn't actually cost $49 dollars is why.
They just announced the preorder, might be worth waiting for suppliers to sell them on their behalf in the rest of the world.
It might be one of those under $49 for headline and customs (tax+duty)but we make the money on the $50 shipping.
But since you can buy 7" resistive tablets for <$70 inc shipping from all the online chinese stores this shouldn't be too difficult to bring in a screen and battery-less device at this price.
But since you can buy 7" resistive tablets for <$70 inc shipping from all the online chinese stores this shouldn't be too difficult to bring in a screen and battery-less device at this price.
Anyone aware of an inexpensive place to pick up a small touchscreen LCD?
APC, paired with a small touchscreen would be very useful in many situations.
APC, paired with a small touchscreen would be very useful in many situations.
That's not a computer that's a cardboard box. It would probably be more effective to show a rendering + screen shots. They're not selling a box they're selling a computer.
http://apc.io/about/
There you go.
There you go.
It does a roll over into views of the PCB then the ports etc but they are being slashdotted by news.y... at the moment so it takes a while to change
besides small form factor, I care about power consumption:
[1] consumes 4 watts when operating at idle power and 13.5 watts at maximum load.
[1] http://apc.io/faq/what-is-the-power-consumption-of-apc/
[1] consumes 4 watts when operating at idle power and 13.5 watts at maximum load.
[1] http://apc.io/faq/what-is-the-power-consumption-of-apc/
I can't remember why I bookmarked and signed up for their pre-order alert... Why do I want to spend ~$100 on a dumbed down *nix device? Note: I am a mobile developer too but...my Asus Transformer was only moderately more expensive...
The only useful application for this I'd say is if something in your old PC died, and instead of buying parts for it, you could buy this, and make it live longer.
I don't actually see an Image of the device itself on the site.
Images are at http://apc.io/ at the top of the page.
Based on the description, I don't think it comes with a case:
"APC integrates memory, storage, and a full set of consumer I/O features in a small footprint Neo-ITX motherboard that can be connected to a TV or monitor."
Based on the description, I don't think it comes with a case:
"APC integrates memory, storage, and a full set of consumer I/O features in a small footprint Neo-ITX motherboard that can be connected to a TV or monitor."
You're right; no case.
"APC includes the system (with O/S) and a 13.5W, 9V/1.5A power adaptor. Case is not included."
http://apc.io/faq/what-is-included-in-apc/
"APC includes the system (with O/S) and a 13.5W, 9V/1.5A power adaptor. Case is not included."
http://apc.io/faq/what-is-included-in-apc/
The box hints at the size of the power brick. Yuck.
I'm getting a 404 on apc.io.
The first company that made something like this which worked 'out of the box' with YouTube, Netflix, BBC, Skype and sold for $50 (ie $100 at Worst Buy) would do very well.
There are a lot of TV shows being watched on iPads because hooking up the big screen TV to a computer is too much effort / inconvenient for 'normal' people.
There are a lot of TV shows being watched on iPads because hooking up the big screen TV to a computer is too much effort / inconvenient for 'normal' people.
What you just described is Google TV (Logitech Revue). It's Android 3.0, works "out of the box" with YouTube, Netflix, Amazon Video apps preinstalled and most every streaming site other than Hulu. No Skype but it did include its own video chat app. And it was $99 at Best Buy.
The product was a commercial failure. Logitech discontinued it last year. It's still available in some stores and online but once the stock is gone, it's gone.
The product was a commercial failure. Logitech discontinued it last year. It's still available in some stores and online but once the stock is gone, it's gone.
It wasn't $99 at bestbuy, it was $300 when it was released, which is a big part of why it failed.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/08/logitech-revue-with-googl...
Also it's still not $99, it's going for $150 new http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Companion-Google-Keyboard-Con...
Also it's still not $99, it's going for $150 new http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Companion-Google-Keyboard-Con...
> It wasn't $99 at bestbuy, it was $300 when it was released
It was also $99 at Best Buy. It wasn't successful at that price either. Today's iPhone sales aren't determined by its initial pricing in 2007.
> Also it's still not $99, it's going for $150
That's a 3rd party seller listing because Amazon is sold out. Amazon has it refurbished for $99, which is probably just old stock stores sent back to Logitech, which they sent back out for sale with "Now with Android 3.0" stickers added to the boxes.
Even if it's not, it's essentially the same price as pre-ordering this mystery box, yet comes with and does much more.
It was also $99 at Best Buy. It wasn't successful at that price either. Today's iPhone sales aren't determined by its initial pricing in 2007.
> Also it's still not $99, it's going for $150
That's a 3rd party seller listing because Amazon is sold out. Amazon has it refurbished for $99, which is probably just old stock stores sent back to Logitech, which they sent back out for sale with "Now with Android 3.0" stickers added to the boxes.
Even if it's not, it's essentially the same price as pre-ordering this mystery box, yet comes with and does much more.
The OP of this thread said that a ready-to-go box selling @ $50 would sell like pancakes. You mentioned the Logitech Revue as having already been that, but you are completely wrong, it was never $99 at bestbuy, it was $299, then $249 and then discontinued.
More proof here that Logitech didn't get that ~$300 was too high a price point for something like this http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/29/logitechs-disappointing-q...
The Logitech Revue never retailed at $99 like you are trying to pass off as being true, sure now that they are discontinued you can find them refurbished on Amazon at that price but it's not the same thing and doesn't rebut the OPs point.
More proof here that Logitech didn't get that ~$300 was too high a price point for something like this http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/29/logitechs-disappointing-q...
The Logitech Revue never retailed at $99 like you are trying to pass off as being true, sure now that they are discontinued you can find them refurbished on Amazon at that price but it's not the same thing and doesn't rebut the OPs point.
What an asshole. I do not appreciate being called a liar by an egotistical fool passing off his own misinformation as a correction. I have said nothing untrue or dishonest. Yours is one of the most angering posts I've read on HN in 4+ years.
The Revue retailed for $99 new for almost a year, since mid 2011, until stores ran out of stock. Here's the announcement direct from Logitech's VP, Digital Home Group, about the retail price drop to $99 at all stores:
http://blog.logitech.com/2011/07/31/logitech-revue-now-99/
Best Buy carried it at $299, $249, $129, and $99 all in new condition. The $99 price was in early 2011, raised to $129 in November 2011, and dropped back to $99 before going out of stock. You can find these price points in Google through mentions on sites like Slickdeals that tracked the price drops.
Sears carried it for $99. Newegg carried it for $99. I'm sure other stores did too. You can still buy it new for $99 from TigerDirect.
Next time you feel compelled to call someone out as a liar, be damned sure you're actually right about it.
The Revue retailed for $99 new for almost a year, since mid 2011, until stores ran out of stock. Here's the announcement direct from Logitech's VP, Digital Home Group, about the retail price drop to $99 at all stores:
http://blog.logitech.com/2011/07/31/logitech-revue-now-99/
Best Buy carried it at $299, $249, $129, and $99 all in new condition. The $99 price was in early 2011, raised to $129 in November 2011, and dropped back to $99 before going out of stock. You can find these price points in Google through mentions on sites like Slickdeals that tracked the price drops.
Sears carried it for $99. Newegg carried it for $99. I'm sure other stores did too. You can still buy it new for $99 from TigerDirect.
Next time you feel compelled to call someone out as a liar, be damned sure you're actually right about it.
And like most of the systems it only worked in the US
This is not true. I'm in Canada, and it works just fine.
Ok - I didn't buy one because it required a GooglePlay/TV (?) account that was only available in the US.
But having seen what Netflix Canada offers I'm not too bothered!
But having seen what Netflix Canada offers I'm not too bothered!
You're right when you say Netflix Canada offers very little in comparsion to Netflix US; but Google TV does not require any accounts that are only available to US customers. That is also wrong. You just need ANY google account. You can make one when you purchase the device.
Ok, they either changed the rules or I misread them.
But it's why an opensource solution is the only thing that would work. Netflix aren't going to have good Youtube support and Amazon aren't going to do a good job of Netflix, neither will do the BBC. And when some online service marginally changes its system - a cheap HW maker like Logitech isn't going to put effort into an update.
But it's why an opensource solution is the only thing that would work. Netflix aren't going to have good Youtube support and Amazon aren't going to do a good job of Netflix, neither will do the BBC. And when some online service marginally changes its system - a cheap HW maker like Logitech isn't going to put effort into an update.
I think you can buy a cheap blu-ray player with internet access for not much more than that. No keyboard, but you can still watch YouTube, Netflix etc with basically no set up required.
http://apc.io/wp-content/blogs.dir/7/files/apc-screenshots/s...
Come on guys, get serious.
Come on guys, get serious.
Is there something about Android 4.0 that makes it difficult to work with from a hardware perspective?