Rise of the Brogrammer(cnn.com)
cnn.com
Rise of the Brogrammer
http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/07/tech/web/brogrammers/index.html?hpt=hp_c1
15 comments
I always thought the whole brogrammer thing was kind of a nod to everything that the community is not.
It seems akin to the "D&D enthusiasts are devil worshipers." hysteria back in the day. More than a few people when asked what they did when they played by those that had no idea what it was like would say something like "Oh. You know; we don our blackest robes and light candles at midnight etc. etc." Of course, this would get around and then you'd end up with 'that guy' trying to join your gaming group.
No one seriously considers themselves a brogrammer and if they do, they just mark themselves as someone not to be taken seriously...
Oh well, I guess we have to declare the joke over because now there is a weird feedback loop creating a self fulfilling brogrammer subculture.
It seems akin to the "D&D enthusiasts are devil worshipers." hysteria back in the day. More than a few people when asked what they did when they played by those that had no idea what it was like would say something like "Oh. You know; we don our blackest robes and light candles at midnight etc. etc." Of course, this would get around and then you'd end up with 'that guy' trying to join your gaming group.
No one seriously considers themselves a brogrammer and if they do, they just mark themselves as someone not to be taken seriously...
Oh well, I guess we have to declare the joke over because now there is a weird feedback loop creating a self fulfilling brogrammer subculture.
I always thought the whole brogrammer thing was kind of a nod to everything that the community is not.
That's what I thought at first, but there are actually programmers who do that. There's been a lot of discussion here about it, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3168038 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3663244
That's what I thought at first, but there are actually programmers who do that. There's been a lot of discussion here about it, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3168038 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3663244
I'm getting kind of sick of this media brogrammer fest. Some guys are sexist. Some aren't. Some program. Some don't. Can we please just focus on the main issue? Sexism in the workplace. Really, what does this have to do with programming at all?
There's no "rise" of anything, except idiots who get big heads because they got 2M in funding...and that's nothing new. The more attention we give them, the bigger their heads get. As many get embarrassed by being called out, there are just as many who would wear it as a badge of honor.
All the programmers I know are great guys who treat women with respect and just want to focus on their work instead of having subservient big breasted bimbos prancing around their office.
There's no epidemic here except bored journalists.
There's no "rise" of anything, except idiots who get big heads because they got 2M in funding...and that's nothing new. The more attention we give them, the bigger their heads get. As many get embarrassed by being called out, there are just as many who would wear it as a badge of honor.
All the programmers I know are great guys who treat women with respect and just want to focus on their work instead of having subservient big breasted bimbos prancing around their office.
There's no epidemic here except bored journalists.
Ever since people started yapping about this "brogrammer"-crap I've been paying more attention to my fellow programmer's behaviour. Most of them are male, some of them are female, and one of them is a bit of both. One of them is black. One of them is in a wheelchair. And another one is deaf. The one thing they all have in common, is that they're geeks. I haven't noticed any of this alleged sexism, racism or frat boy nonsense.
Sure, some of us like to drink. Some of us even drink what some might consider "a lot", but then we live in a part of the world where beer is a socially accepted lubricant legal for purchase at age 16.
I don't particularly like the tone of the these articles, associating beer consumption with immature fratty/bratty behaviour. Nor do I like it when people interpret the relative scarcity of programming females to sexism. Or -- in my area -- the scarcity of black programmers to racism.
I would really love to see some hard backed evidence/statistics about this, instead of some contextless anecdotal bullshit.
Until someone can prove otherwise, programmers are no more sexist/racist/bratty than anyone else from a similar social/educational background.
To all you bored reporters, you might want to investigate cooks, bakers & chocolatiers next, I hear they're an over-sexed bunch who engage on orgies on a frequent basis.
Sigh.
Sure, some of us like to drink. Some of us even drink what some might consider "a lot", but then we live in a part of the world where beer is a socially accepted lubricant legal for purchase at age 16.
I don't particularly like the tone of the these articles, associating beer consumption with immature fratty/bratty behaviour. Nor do I like it when people interpret the relative scarcity of programming females to sexism. Or -- in my area -- the scarcity of black programmers to racism.
I would really love to see some hard backed evidence/statistics about this, instead of some contextless anecdotal bullshit.
Until someone can prove otherwise, programmers are no more sexist/racist/bratty than anyone else from a similar social/educational background.
To all you bored reporters, you might want to investigate cooks, bakers & chocolatiers next, I hear they're an over-sexed bunch who engage on orgies on a frequent basis.
Sigh.
I don't care if my industry is more or less sexist or racist than average. I care if it's sexist or racist at all.
Also, whether or not you notice mistreatment of others is not the best metric. Try asking people in those groups.
If you'd like to see an interesting analysis of the relative scarcity of female computer scientists, this is a classic: http://people.mills.edu/spertus/Gender/why.html
Also, whether or not you notice mistreatment of others is not the best metric. Try asking people in those groups.
If you'd like to see an interesting analysis of the relative scarcity of female computer scientists, this is a classic: http://people.mills.edu/spertus/Gender/why.html
It's a new twist on a "same ol' story" and thus can generate traffic. That's why it is getting attention.
This may also be media-hype related, but there's the perception that programming, because of the lucrative startup field, is attracting more "bro-ish" type gentlemen than before. It's "cool" to code, just as it's cool to go into investment banking and own a yacht.
Yes, it is the age-old issue of sexism in the workplace, but when I was in computer engineering school, there wasn't much overt sexism...because there was just little awareness of it given the rarity of female programmers/engineers among my fellow students.
Yes, it is the age-old issue of sexism in the workplace, but when I was in computer engineering school, there wasn't much overt sexism...because there was just little awareness of it given the rarity of female programmers/engineers among my fellow students.
Most of the hype about this is that it plays against type - "you thought programmers were shy neckbearded nerds? Ha! In reality they are hard drinking, hard caffeinating, woman disrespecting fratboys!"
Both are stereotypes (with some basis in reality here and there). But of course it makes a good story for the mainstream media. <sigh>
Both are stereotypes (with some basis in reality here and there). But of course it makes a good story for the mainstream media. <sigh>
coming soon stereotypes; programmers leading in american high school prom movies, becoming the prom king and getting the prom queen.
The whole "They used to be nerds and social misfits, but not anymore!" is really old. It seems memories are short in the media.
"Geek is the new Chic" - USA Today, October 2003 http://www.usatoday.com/life/2003-10-22-geek-chic_x.htm
"The new Worker Elite" - Ad Age, November 1997 http://www.qualitydigest.com/nov97/html/qualtech.html
"Geek is the new Chic" - USA Today, October 2003 http://www.usatoday.com/life/2003-10-22-geek-chic_x.htm
"The new Worker Elite" - Ad Age, November 1997 http://www.qualitydigest.com/nov97/html/qualtech.html
Oh, for the day when the brogrammers will follow the metrosexuals and soccer moms into the memory hole...
I find this to be one of the silliest quotes in the article:
"Forget what you think you know about the benignly geeky computer programmer who lives for the thrill of finding a single misplaced semicolon in thousands of lines of code."
For as long as I've been programming, the art has been about more than syntax. Although, while teaching new programmers, I find one of the biggest barriers learning to program is getting stuck on syntax, and trying to memorize every little syntactical detail. Better to focus on how to create an algorithm.
Perhaps that's why the writer of this article went into journalism rather than programming.
"Forget what you think you know about the benignly geeky computer programmer who lives for the thrill of finding a single misplaced semicolon in thousands of lines of code."
For as long as I've been programming, the art has been about more than syntax. Although, while teaching new programmers, I find one of the biggest barriers learning to program is getting stuck on syntax, and trying to memorize every little syntactical detail. Better to focus on how to create an algorithm.
Perhaps that's why the writer of this article went into journalism rather than programming.
This article seems to just be a lazy rehashing of the Mother Jones story www.motherjones.com/media/2012/04/silicon-valley-brogrammer-culture-sexist-sxsw They mention the exact same examples ('bro down and crush' & bikini shots) even. I'll admit, I didn't read the whole thing. I'm waiting for the NPR Morning Edition rehashing, complete with a chuckling Steve Inskeep. :)
Should we stay in the background forever, and let the marketing people dictate the future of tech, or make some serious attempt to drive tech into another direction?
At some point you have to get people's attention - once that happens, maybe we can see improvement. Until then, brogramming just makes assclowns easier to spot.
At some point you have to get people's attention - once that happens, maybe we can see improvement. Until then, brogramming just makes assclowns easier to spot.
"Now, I'm hearing people talk about being concerned about the number of quote-unquote 'idea people' flooding the field."
I'm not concerned at all. Ideas are just that: vapor. Show me a concrete implementation. Someone has to actually build that.
I'm not concerned at all. Ideas are just that: vapor. Show me a concrete implementation. Someone has to actually build that.
There's more open jobs for good programmers than there are good programmers. The salary is also very competitive with most other industries. I'm surprised we haven't seen more of a flood of people wanting to try their hands at programming and startups.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always thought the "brogrammer" stereotype stemmed from a rise of people within the tech industry that broke the classical notion of a software geek. Individuals whom were excellent software engineers, yet whose life did not revolve around a glowing computer screen; and had other hobbies like surfing, biking, etc.
Anyway, the article on CNN is quite funny, but I'm slightly saddened in that there are people who will read this and honestly believe that this is a real problem.
Anyway, the article on CNN is quite funny, but I'm slightly saddened in that there are people who will read this and honestly believe that this is a real problem.
I suppose that if all it takes to be a brogrammer is to have hobbies that don't revolve around a computer, then I'm pegged. Which is weird since I spent almost my entire weekend playing video games. So maybe I'm a nerd after all.
While this is (from my experience) incredibly inaccurate of the programming community at large. My fear is that it will encourage a perception of people looking for a career to embrace this stereotype. People who read this article may think "This is awesome, I definitely want to do this!" and a new wave of people who think that "brogramming" is the norm will begin to seep into the industry. Maybe the numbers will not be that much and it will allow a more diverse culture.
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>Rise of the Brogrammer (cnn.com)
"Rise of another idiotic idea that applies to less of 0.1% of the population of programmers, but makes for a nice headlines (or the idiots at media outlets thing so".
Here, I fixed it for CNN.
"Rise of another idiotic idea that applies to less of 0.1% of the population of programmers, but makes for a nice headlines (or the idiots at media outlets thing so".
Here, I fixed it for CNN.
I just read this article. It's awesome. Yeah there are definitely problems with the industry. I wonder, though, if some of the things mentioned (like the frathouse like atmosphere) is a sort of response to the 'geekiness' associated with programming. [Not that that in any way justifies sexism or boozing at work, etc]
It's a consideration, what with the terms 'geek' and 'nerd' having negative connotations (geek much less so).
'Brogramming' feels like a knee-jerk reaction to boot out the socially awkward, reclusive stereotypes ignorantly associated with being technically proficient.
Interesting to note that in its attempt to do this, it's merely exchanging one set of stereotypes for another. It doesn't really solve the perception problem these people seem to have.
'Brogramming' feels like a knee-jerk reaction to boot out the socially awkward, reclusive stereotypes ignorantly associated with being technically proficient.
Interesting to note that in its attempt to do this, it's merely exchanging one set of stereotypes for another. It doesn't really solve the perception problem these people seem to have.
It doesn't solve anything for the industry, but for the individual it lets him demonstrate high social status.
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The thing is there's a huge difference between the perception that people have of a field and what happens in the field. It reminds me of how CSI (the show) shows police work: super high tech. solving of cases. Sorry to break it, it's not the case, it's long interviews with people and little lab work with overused equipment. In the same spirit slowly since the Social Network this notion of "cool programmer" has emerged in the media. The reality is that we're still very far from it, and it's mostly guys sitting in front of desks typing on keyboards (not so sexy, uh ?).
Anyway, this article is ridiculous, but I don't trust CNN anymore to provide accurate news. Let them read tweets live, that's their line of work now.