Twitter’s legal letter to Meta: a guided tour of a weak litigation letter(davidallengreen.com)
davidallengreen.com
Twitter’s legal letter to Meta: a guided tour of a weak litigation letter
https://davidallengreen.com/2023/07/a-close-reading-of-twitters-legal-letter-to-meta-a-guided-tour-of-a-weak-litigation-letter/
12 comments
> Elon is basically a big bully, or rather a big child who screams when he doesn’t get what he wants.
> Makes cool stuff though and has a pretty good sense of humor.
His sense of humor like his other behavior is similar to that of a 5 year old child.
> Makes cool stuff though and has a pretty good sense of humor.
His sense of humor like his other behavior is similar to that of a 5 year old child.
> Makes cool stuff though and has a pretty good sense of humor.
I’m gonna need citations on both of these. What has he actually made? He’s been know to take credit for a lot of things, and he could from the point of view of spending the money and maybe hiring some people, but ultimately he doesn’t make or come up with much of anything that I’m aware of.
Also his sense of humor is…awful. It does appeal to one particular group largely, and they all have blue check marks because that is a meaningless badge these days.
I’m gonna need citations on both of these. What has he actually made? He’s been know to take credit for a lot of things, and he could from the point of view of spending the money and maybe hiring some people, but ultimately he doesn’t make or come up with much of anything that I’m aware of.
Also his sense of humor is…awful. It does appeal to one particular group largely, and they all have blue check marks because that is a meaningless badge these days.
Musk is nothing more than a VC courting other VCs. He tries to pump up the stock through side shows. Like staging the self-drive features of Telsa EVs. Showing off home battery backup system on Desperate Housewives that does not economically scale [0]. Trying to make the news so people think he is more that just Mr. Money Bags.
He hires all the people that actually work on making the really cool stuff. Which most already where in the industry. They were just given the opportunity to try something Boeing and all the existing companies didn't support. High confidence number of those engineers that joined SpaceX already had ideas for a re-usable rocket system.
Even Mercades-Benz beat Tesla to market for certified self-driving. Should of really scored some of those engineers from Mercades-Benz, or the ones that handled the out-sourcing, too.
[0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36722606-taming-the-sun
Edit; spacing
He hires all the people that actually work on making the really cool stuff. Which most already where in the industry. They were just given the opportunity to try something Boeing and all the existing companies didn't support. High confidence number of those engineers that joined SpaceX already had ideas for a re-usable rocket system.
Even Mercades-Benz beat Tesla to market for certified self-driving. Should of really scored some of those engineers from Mercades-Benz, or the ones that handled the out-sourcing, too.
[0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36722606-taming-the-sun
Edit; spacing
> he could from the point of view of spending the money and maybe hiring some people
And that's hard. I personally think hiring is the hardest and most important part of running a business.
And that's hard. I personally think hiring is the hardest and most important part of running a business.
> He’s been know to take credit for a lot of things, and he could from the point of view of spending the money and maybe hiring some people, but ultimately he doesn’t make or come up with much of anything that I’m aware of.
The same could be said of Steve Jobs. It would be an unfair statement, for the same reasons I feel it's unfair with Musk: their vision strongly influenced the products their companies made.
The same could be said of Steve Jobs. It would be an unfair statement, for the same reasons I feel it's unfair with Musk: their vision strongly influenced the products their companies made.
I was just thinking the other day, how long till we get the equivalent of folklore.org full of stories about Elon being a dick to coworkers:
https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&stor...
> "A what?"
> "A reality distortion field. In his presence, reality is malleable. He can convince anyone of practically anything. It wears off when he's not around, but it makes it hard to have realistic schedules. And there's a couple of other things you should know about working with Steve."
> "What else?"
> "Well, just because he tells you that something is awful or great, it doesn't necessarily mean he'll feel that way tomorrow. You have to low-pass filter his input. And then, he's really funny about ideas. If you tell him a new idea, he'll usually tell you that he thinks it's stupid. But then, if he actually likes it, exactly one week later, he'll come back to you and propose your idea to you, as if he thought of it
https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&stor...
> "A what?"
> "A reality distortion field. In his presence, reality is malleable. He can convince anyone of practically anything. It wears off when he's not around, but it makes it hard to have realistic schedules. And there's a couple of other things you should know about working with Steve."
> "What else?"
> "Well, just because he tells you that something is awful or great, it doesn't necessarily mean he'll feel that way tomorrow. You have to low-pass filter his input. And then, he's really funny about ideas. If you tell him a new idea, he'll usually tell you that he thinks it's stupid. But then, if he actually likes it, exactly one week later, he'll come back to you and propose your idea to you, as if he thought of it
"vision" only goes so far and in the case of authoritarian narcissists like Jobs and Musk (perhaps more so Musk) can just as often sabotage progress as lead it. Elon Musk seems like the kind of leader you have to know when and how to lead out of the room just to keep things running sanely
At the end of the day, he isn't designing the rockets. He isn't building the rockets. He isn't even flying the rockets. He pays the people who hire the people who do those things. That has value, but not the kind of "billionaire genius entrepreneur who built a technological empire with his bare hands" value that society gives him. People have called Elon Musk the most brilliant man who ever lived, the man on whom the very arc of human evolution and progress depends, Tony Stark, Edison, Einstein and Davinci in one.
I don't think the parents' statement is unfair. I think it's unfair that the world will know Elon Musk's name a century from now and that no matter what he does (barring, maybe, mass murder) his carefully crafted narrative will live on, but the names and stories of the people who actually turned his vision into reality have already vanished under the sands of time because they are merely assets, no more important to the hierarchies of capitalism or the great man narratives of history than office furniture.
At the end of the day, he isn't designing the rockets. He isn't building the rockets. He isn't even flying the rockets. He pays the people who hire the people who do those things. That has value, but not the kind of "billionaire genius entrepreneur who built a technological empire with his bare hands" value that society gives him. People have called Elon Musk the most brilliant man who ever lived, the man on whom the very arc of human evolution and progress depends, Tony Stark, Edison, Einstein and Davinci in one.
I don't think the parents' statement is unfair. I think it's unfair that the world will know Elon Musk's name a century from now and that no matter what he does (barring, maybe, mass murder) his carefully crafted narrative will live on, but the names and stories of the people who actually turned his vision into reality have already vanished under the sands of time because they are merely assets, no more important to the hierarchies of capitalism or the great man narratives of history than office furniture.
To be fair he didn’t get out of his deal to buy Twitter because he presented an absolute ironclad bulletproof offer.
He did so to convince the board that they had no choice but to accept. Then when he reconsidered he couldn’t get out.
Because… see above.
“Titter”
Your tower of wisdom must be really high if you judge Musk like this. The rise and fall of nations must lool like a kindergarten play to you.
This was actually sent by Elon's personal lawyer. Make of that what you will but I get the feeling this letter was composed entirely for Elon's fanboys.
How long before Musk claims that he can't pursue the issue because [insert purported flaw in US legal system here]?
How long before Musk claims that he can't pursue the issue because [insert purported flaw in US legal system here]?
I imagine Twitter is finding it hard to hire lawyers since they are notoriously not paying their bills.
Elon's also suing Twitter's former lawyers (the one that represented them in the purchase lawsuit against Musk) to recover $90 million they were paid. So, not just not paying bills, attempting to claw back money already paid to previous lawyers.
Exactly who you want to do business with.
Exactly who you want to do business with.
Wow. This sounds too stupid to be true, but https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/07/elon-musks-twitter-sues-top-...
What is the point of sending such a letter? Just to let them know that you are scared?
SEO, so that Twitter comes up when you search for threads
It does appear Twitter's legal experts were also fired / laid off when Elon took the reins.
When I first read it, I thought some of it sounded really amateur. I've read lots of lawyerese (I used to provide expert testimony in certain types of technical cases), and this did not come across like it was written by a legal expert of any level.
Now reading this analysis, there are a lot more bells going off. I personally would disregard it - and if forced to respond, I would require a rewritten letter with an appropriate level of authority in its wording.
When I first read it, I thought some of it sounded really amateur. I've read lots of lawyerese (I used to provide expert testimony in certain types of technical cases), and this did not come across like it was written by a legal expert of any level.
Now reading this analysis, there are a lot more bells going off. I personally would disregard it - and if forced to respond, I would require a rewritten letter with an appropriate level of authority in its wording.
The section that Spiro included about robots.txt belies just how amateurish this attempt is. That file has become the effective standard for instructing web scraping utilities, but is nothing more than a strong recommendation and is absolutely not legally binding in any way.
It's bizarre that Spiro wouldn't already understand this, but even weirder that it appears he didn't even research the topic or have an associate/junior partner with more applicable tech knowledge give it the once over. Possibly, Spiro and Musk were provided that feedback and purposely ignored it due to their outsized egos.
What's most obnoxious though is that Musk fired the employees in question while avoiding paying their agreed severance, and then has the gall to invoke the specter of non-compete agreements. I would hope that Spiro, or his firm, would at least be aware that non-competes are unenforceable in California and many other states.
All of this shit is nutty as hell.
It's bizarre that Spiro wouldn't already understand this, but even weirder that it appears he didn't even research the topic or have an associate/junior partner with more applicable tech knowledge give it the once over. Possibly, Spiro and Musk were provided that feedback and purposely ignored it due to their outsized egos.
What's most obnoxious though is that Musk fired the employees in question while avoiding paying their agreed severance, and then has the gall to invoke the specter of non-compete agreements. I would hope that Spiro, or his firm, would at least be aware that non-competes are unenforceable in California and many other states.
All of this shit is nutty as hell.
The letter was sent by a partner at Quinn Emanuel, a well known and highly regarded litigation firm.
I mean, sure. That partner was Alex Spiro, Musk's long time personal lawyer. I'm sure he's brought in enough money from Musk to earn partner regardless of the quality of his work. I mean, it's clear Musk works with him due to his willingness to charge after whatever nonsense Musk wants.
Exactly
Well known yes. Highly regarded ehh not so much. Anyways, what matters most is the attorney rather than the firm.
The letter certainly isn't written in a "highly regardable" way. That's for sure.
The vagueness alone is enough to realize it's aimless. I doubt I worked with lawyers at this particular level before, but their letters tended to be bullet proof in their detail and specificity. I would automatically question this one because it doesn't really say very much, yet takes 2 pages to attempt saying something.
The vagueness alone is enough to realize it's aimless. I doubt I worked with lawyers at this particular level before, but their letters tended to be bullet proof in their detail and specificity. I would automatically question this one because it doesn't really say very much, yet takes 2 pages to attempt saying something.
The site appears to be down. Read it here.
https://web.archive.org/web/20230707193011/https://davidalle...
https://web.archive.org/web/20230707193011/https://davidalle...
(American lawyer here) Yeah, this letter is as weak as they come. An empty threat that Meta won't sweat and was most likely anticipating from the time they began dev. This reading of the letter is spot on.
People seem to forget this is ordinary course of business for big tech.
Internal Tech Emails is a goldmine of letters, threats, and lawsuits back and forth.
Internal Tech Emails is a goldmine of letters, threats, and lawsuits back and forth.
I think this letter was sent out as a publicity tactic for the upcoming Musk vs Zuck cage fight.
anyoneamous(2)
Elon is basically a big bully, or rather a big child who screams when he doesn’t get what he wants.
Makes cool stuff though and has a pretty good sense of humor.
And we’ll, it’s multi-billions at stake, so why not try :)