Ask HN: Where to Find Motivation?
13 comments
It sounds like you're maturing, and passion is mostly for young people who haven't done many things in life yet. Most people after 30 are just clocking in in their dev jobs, without caring about it in the slightest. BTW that's why companies want young people (and why Zuck famously said that people over 30 are useless for Facebook) - they're still in this narrow window where they can get excited about work that's objectively rather unexciting.
I wouldn't put that much stock in what you're colleagues are saying, esp. if you only know them from remote calls. Most people understand that this industry demands "passion", so they know it'd be very stupid to admit that they just don't care. Also, if you're in the US, work is religion and if you admit that you don't care about it, it's basically like admitting that you don't believe in Allah while living in an Islamic state - at the very least, your social status will drop.
There might be some other explanations too, besides outright lying. Some colleagues might be in denial, some might still be young. Finally, some might have this rare trait where they can genuinely get excited by solving similar, mundane code puzzles year after year (reportedly, lots of people in coding jobs take Adderal etc. to zombify themselves into this state, for the sake of making money).
I wouldn't put that much stock in what you're colleagues are saying, esp. if you only know them from remote calls. Most people understand that this industry demands "passion", so they know it'd be very stupid to admit that they just don't care. Also, if you're in the US, work is religion and if you admit that you don't care about it, it's basically like admitting that you don't believe in Allah while living in an Islamic state - at the very least, your social status will drop.
There might be some other explanations too, besides outright lying. Some colleagues might be in denial, some might still be young. Finally, some might have this rare trait where they can genuinely get excited by solving similar, mundane code puzzles year after year (reportedly, lots of people in coding jobs take Adderal etc. to zombify themselves into this state, for the sake of making money).
> (reportedly, lots of people in coding jobs take Adderal etc. to zombify themselves into this state, for the sake of making money).
I've definitely seen my fair share of 0 personality zombie-stare developers who are also somehow outputting 10x the rest of the team. While I can't confirm they're on Adderall one definitely has to wonder.
I guess the question I have becomes - is there anything necessarily wrong with that? If you spend the majority of your life at your job, why not do whatever it takes to enjoy your job? Maybe you die at 60 of a stroke due to sky-high blood pressure, but if you had a genuinely good time pounding out interesting abstractions for the previous 30 years then who am I to judge?
I've definitely seen my fair share of 0 personality zombie-stare developers who are also somehow outputting 10x the rest of the team. While I can't confirm they're on Adderall one definitely has to wonder.
I guess the question I have becomes - is there anything necessarily wrong with that? If you spend the majority of your life at your job, why not do whatever it takes to enjoy your job? Maybe you die at 60 of a stroke due to sky-high blood pressure, but if you had a genuinely good time pounding out interesting abstractions for the previous 30 years then who am I to judge?
I found that working onsite solves 80% of this. By talking to people and living the work day to day you actually get perspective. It's really hard to be alone and remote.
I found that working onsite kills my motivation. Between the time lost on the commute, the suboptimal food I eat for lunch, the appearance of working for the sake of working the whole experience sucks the life out of me
Depends on your personality. Some excel with remote, some prefer hybrid or in office 100%. I would agree that if you have the option to come in, try it and see if that resolves the issue. I work hybrid and, oddly enough, am happy when I'm in the office. It also makes we enjoy when I work from home more.
Lots of people feel this. I would recommend to treat your job like a job - you are exchanging your time for money. Find passion outside of work and don't make the mistake of attaching your identity to your job.
This is easier said than done when your job takes up the majority of your waking hours.
Anecdotally, something that's helping me is treating software development the same way I treat yard work. The work itself on the surface isn't super interesting. In fact, most of the time it's pretty tedious and boring (mowing the lawn/rebasing an annoying set of commits). It's work that still needs to get done, so focusing on:
- doing each action correctly
- finding micro optimizations (if I turn the mower this way, I get that stupid piece of grass that I can never get without another entire pass)
- or, dare I say, finding joy in a job well done helps me get into a "mindfulness"(?) mindset
"Job" meaning everything from "put my shoes on" to "sharpened the mower blade well" to "made the pass with that mower perfectly" to "got all the yard work done". Focusing on the small bits first seems to snowball into the larger ones.
I think getting into the mindfulness mindset and finding joy is what has really helped me. The work itself is boring, tedious, etc. However, pride in a job well done feels good, which creates a positive feedback loop. This year, the yard work has felt less terrible and the yard is looking better than ever.
I'm not quite there yet with software development, but applying the same sort of strategy has been helping over the past couple of weeks. Not every day is omg-amazing but the good days are starting to outweigh the bad ones.
- doing each action correctly
- finding micro optimizations (if I turn the mower this way, I get that stupid piece of grass that I can never get without another entire pass)
- or, dare I say, finding joy in a job well done helps me get into a "mindfulness"(?) mindset
"Job" meaning everything from "put my shoes on" to "sharpened the mower blade well" to "made the pass with that mower perfectly" to "got all the yard work done". Focusing on the small bits first seems to snowball into the larger ones.
I think getting into the mindfulness mindset and finding joy is what has really helped me. The work itself is boring, tedious, etc. However, pride in a job well done feels good, which creates a positive feedback loop. This year, the yard work has felt less terrible and the yard is looking better than ever.
I'm not quite there yet with software development, but applying the same sort of strategy has been helping over the past couple of weeks. Not every day is omg-amazing but the good days are starting to outweigh the bad ones.
I'll start by saying first that you are NOT alone. You haven't mentioned your age but I'd take a stab at you being somewhere in your mid 30s. By now, you've worked in the industry for long enough that you've basically seen it all. While yes, each job has nuggets of uniqueness, the day to day coding is mostly the same. Call this API, update this view, filter this array, fix this weird ass bug.
How do you keep it fresh?
I have a couple tips which HELP for me, but definitely don't solve the problem. There is no silver bullet unfortunately, save for maybe Adderall.
- Watch videos about coding and invest in the craft
- Learn about design patterns, not just what they are but why they are sometimes THE tool for the job.
- Adopt the KISS mindset and defend it furiously. Keep it simple stupid. Can you find a really simple, elegant solution to the problem? Maybe you've seen this problem 100 times before, and just solved it for a for loop. Is there a better way?
- Slow down. To do all the aforementioned things you need to relief the pressure you're feeling to output code all the time. Meditate, find peace in whatever outcome follows this decision to invest in your craft. If you spend a couple days off on YouTube learning about a cool programming solution, and your employer gives you shit, don't worry about it. There are many jobs, and what will be... will be.
How do you keep it fresh?
I have a couple tips which HELP for me, but definitely don't solve the problem. There is no silver bullet unfortunately, save for maybe Adderall.
- Watch videos about coding and invest in the craft
- Learn about design patterns, not just what they are but why they are sometimes THE tool for the job.
- Adopt the KISS mindset and defend it furiously. Keep it simple stupid. Can you find a really simple, elegant solution to the problem? Maybe you've seen this problem 100 times before, and just solved it for a for loop. Is there a better way?
- Slow down. To do all the aforementioned things you need to relief the pressure you're feeling to output code all the time. Meditate, find peace in whatever outcome follows this decision to invest in your craft. If you spend a couple days off on YouTube learning about a cool programming solution, and your employer gives you shit, don't worry about it. There are many jobs, and what will be... will be.
Pay me and I’ll help give you all the motivation you need. I’d be good. I have that Nietzsche experience, you see, of having been so isolated for so long that there’s little in the way of neuroticism, excuses, dodges, that I haven’t seen!
Seriously, though, what else do you like? I made the mistake of letting the process of searching for jobs destroy any love I had for programming. I’d imagine a ho-hum job can do that to a lesser degree. You can’t let them define it. Find out what you love, get immersed in that first: or find something new that sounds cool. Get your zest for learning and creating back. For me it is physics and mathematics, but for all I know, it could be sports bets or logistics in Djibouti. And then if there is a programming application, easy to incorporate that in.
Also, retaining childlike abilities to get excited about stuff might get you mocked, but it’ll keep you spry, and this tends to have a snowball effect elsewhere in life.
Seriously, though, what else do you like? I made the mistake of letting the process of searching for jobs destroy any love I had for programming. I’d imagine a ho-hum job can do that to a lesser degree. You can’t let them define it. Find out what you love, get immersed in that first: or find something new that sounds cool. Get your zest for learning and creating back. For me it is physics and mathematics, but for all I know, it could be sports bets or logistics in Djibouti. And then if there is a programming application, easy to incorporate that in.
Also, retaining childlike abilities to get excited about stuff might get you mocked, but it’ll keep you spry, and this tends to have a snowball effect elsewhere in life.
Work as a scientific programmer. Web dev/ backend/ frontend are all uninteresting to me. No matter how much they offer to me, I just don't want them to bother me. Especially they collectively make the web so slow and unhealthy.
Your life's purpose. What's your purpose in life? What do you want from your life? That's the only motivation. Everything and all that you should be a means to get to those ends.
Read that book by Stutz. The Jonah Hill documentary is on Netflix. Recently I have struggled with burnout lack of motivation etc. there’s a load of metaphors for growth etc that do in a sense make sense
I'd say drastically reduce costs and future costs, calculate how much you need and save aggressively. Then FIRE and only work on things you enjoy.
Two options:
1. Stop giving a shit about your job and find enjoyment elsewhere that your job pays for.
2. Find a new job.
Don’t get stuck.
1. Stop giving a shit about your job and find enjoyment elsewhere that your job pays for.
2. Find a new job.
Don’t get stuck.
1. Fiction. This is where your myth, hero's journey, etc comes in. Elon Musk read lots of sci-fi growing up.
2. History. This is also a trick answer - much of history is fiction, especially autobiographies.
Motivational coaches use one or the other. Often stories of themselves. Sometimes of specific people. It's part myth, but don't question it too much or you'll lose the buzz.
A practical approach is also reading stories of people in similar situations. Lots of documentaries and books on tech giants or people like John Carmack & Romero. Startup School videos got me motivated through 100-hour weeks for a year, but after a point you deplete that motivational source.
3. Get into flow. There's specific rules around this [1]. If you want to 'gamify' things, this is how you do it.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
2. History. This is also a trick answer - much of history is fiction, especially autobiographies.
Motivational coaches use one or the other. Often stories of themselves. Sometimes of specific people. It's part myth, but don't question it too much or you'll lose the buzz.
A practical approach is also reading stories of people in similar situations. Lots of documentaries and books on tech giants or people like John Carmack & Romero. Startup School videos got me motivated through 100-hour weeks for a year, but after a point you deplete that motivational source.
3. Get into flow. There's specific rules around this [1]. If you want to 'gamify' things, this is how you do it.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
Fear. Get scared..
Curious. Get curious about things..
Unrealistic expectation.
Curious. Get curious about things..
Unrealistic expectation.
It seems like others on the team and other devs I’ve talked to about this don’t really have the same outlook as I do because they are able to get enough enjoyment and fulfillment out of working with the tech stack that the other factors don’t seem to matter as much if at all to them.
I have started to feel this way at all the companies I have worked for at some point, leading me to believe that I just wasn’t working at the right place or I was getting burned out / needed to find somewhere I was passionate about the mission statement of the company for this to go away, but it seems to be a problem that is tied to me and not my environment.
I enjoy programming in my free time and love learning, building things, etc… but am not someone who is so enthralled by the act of writing and working with software that I can fully be happy working on absolutely anything like others I know in the same field as me.
In an ideal world, I would be able to find somewhere to work that either lines up really well with something I am passionate about or the people I work with are so great that it makes up for the work not being particularly interesting, but this seems challenging to achieve in practice.
Does anyone else feel similarly to how I do and if so, are there any strategies you have found useful to help motivate yourself?