Bittrex to Cease Operations in the US(bittrex.com)
bittrex.com
Bittrex to Cease Operations in the US
https://bittrex.com/discover/important-message-for-bittrex-u-s-customers
12 comments
This is a stupid title though. It's just Bittrex US. I can't think of a worse country to do crypto business in so it should come as no surprise. Bittrex Global seems perfectly fine.
What are the good countries? In crypto, most business seems to come down to converting an unstable fiat currency into a stable fiat one. DeFi is just the middleman.
The problem is that the countries that are good for crypto, e.g. Venezuela, Nicaragua, Lebanon, etc, aren't really all that good for anything else.
That's not true. Crypto is fine in most of Asia. Most of these countries are very respectable.
Yes, the original title is "Important Message For Bittrex U.S. Customers"
Crypto getting killed to lock us into cbdc. Banks that don't play will be "rescued". Only big exchanges left that will be heavily locked down.
I am in Canada and when I went to their website I found that it's not available for me either. I wonder what they do.
> The page you are trying to access isn’t available to you in the locale you are accessing from.
Well then.
Well then.
Dexes destroyed the long-tail crypto exchange. Consolidation and shut downs are coming. Regulation is certainly an issue but the truth is Bittrex doesn’t really need to exist anymore. Cross-chain swaps are possible with wrapped assets, atomic swaps, and operations like FixedFloat. End of an era but the market has spoken. Whatever benefits a centralized exchange provides are better with deeper liquidity and larger exchanges like Coinbase and Binance.
I also believe Gemini is on its last legs. The SEC combined with anemic volumes, GUSD went nowhere, Nifty Gateway market collapsed, Gemini Earn is in bankruptcy. Winklevoss will just buy and hold BTC from now on.
I also believe Gemini is on its last legs. The SEC combined with anemic volumes, GUSD went nowhere, Nifty Gateway market collapsed, Gemini Earn is in bankruptcy. Winklevoss will just buy and hold BTC from now on.
Too bad DEXs can't actually get money into the ecosystem, they're only about swapping one funny token for another.
Buy USDC on Coinbase, withdraw to personal wallet, now you can use on dex. Or that’s what I do. I pay all my taxes and I pay a lot of them.
This is what my friend was doing, until CB just locked his account after making two $10k USDC purchases. He was fully KYC'd. No warning or reason given, just "convert back to USD and withdraw your money please, that's our final answer".
[deleted]
This works but it's also specifically not using the dex (decentralized exchange, for anyone confused) to exchange fiat / crypto in either direction. Coinbase is doing that.
Yes but the benefits of dexes, specifically the ability to earn fees by being a liquidity provider (LP) in an automatic market maker pool (AMM) are very useful. You can maintain your exposure to assets and not need to maintain a trading bot with all of its risks and still earn fees.
But that relegates the centralized exchange into the position of being nothing more than a "fiat on-ramp", and potentially literally nothing more than a trivial wrapper around Circle (in the case of Coinbase and USDC), which effectively undermines their business model of operating the whole exchange apparatus. (Hell: does Coinbase even make any money at all if you deposit USD and withdraw USDC? I think they don't have deposit fees in general, do the USD<>USDC 1:1, and then offer free withdrawals on USDC due to some fancy new "gasless" withdrawal mechanism Circle came up with.)
Regardless, the point being made in the comment upthread wasn't "you will never need a centralized entity ever again": that was a total strawman. It wasn't even that you wouldn't want any centralized exchanges! It was merely that the "long tail" of random exchanges who specialize in listing more random tokens is effectively dead as who would bother with all that trouble to navigate all the red tape--particularly to operate in the United States--to support and vet these tokens when every token ever can be made available on a decentralized exchange. You might thereby still want a handful of the largest exchanges... but do you really need Bittrex enough for them to make enough money to put much effort into existing?
Regardless, the point being made in the comment upthread wasn't "you will never need a centralized entity ever again": that was a total strawman. It wasn't even that you wouldn't want any centralized exchanges! It was merely that the "long tail" of random exchanges who specialize in listing more random tokens is effectively dead as who would bother with all that trouble to navigate all the red tape--particularly to operate in the United States--to support and vet these tokens when every token ever can be made available on a decentralized exchange. You might thereby still want a handful of the largest exchanges... but do you really need Bittrex enough for them to make enough money to put much effort into existing?
But that relegates the centralized exchange into the position of being nothing more than a "fiat on-ramp"
I mean, you cut off the rest of that paragraph ;P. Sure: it sounds like maybe a reasonable opportunity for Circle, but Coinbase would effectively be adding no value anymore and would have to attempt to charge (a lot, if they wanted to have any hope of making anywhere near as much money as their current business model) for something that not only are they currently doing for free but which they aren't really doing in the first place (as they are just a thin wrapper around Circle). The only reason Circle isn't bothering with this market is seemingly that they didn't want to deal directly with retail and they don't really have to because Coinbase was willing to integrate it for free... but like, Paxos (which is also regulated) does deal with individual users, so there is no reason Circle can't in a world where Coinbase is otherwise irrelevant. (The reality, though, is that there is still benefit for traders to having centralized exchanges due to their limit order book model, so I wouldn't discount Coinbase just yet, anyway ;P.)
The only reason Circle isn't bothering with this market is seemingly that they didn't want to deal directly with retail
But I'm willing to bet that they won't, because dealing with retail investors is a hassle. You have to have customer service. You have to deal with additional regulation. You have to deal with random social media firestorms. It's a mess. I don't blame Citadel for leaving it to Robinhood to deal with these issues and I wouldn't blame Circle for leaving it to Coinbase to deal with the retail issues surrounding crypto.
> does Coinbase even make any money at all if you deposit USD and withdraw USDC?
They have 75% of $33 billions (with a 'b') of the USDC circulating as short-term US treasuries (with every single individual ID of the short-term treasuries publicly posted).
So someone is basically printing free money by having about $25 bn in short term US treasuries yielding atm something insane like 4% yearly.
I don't know who's pocketing that money but that's about $1 billion, yearly, in yields from the short term US treasuries.
If somehow Coinbase (or "Centre" but Centre is Circle + Coinbase) is pocketing that money, they probably could allow 0% fees trading everywhere and still be one of the most profitable HN unicorn out there.
Does Coinbase give APY on people keeping USDC at Coinbase? I have no idea. Does Coinbase give APY on people withdrawing USDC to private wallets? I think they don't. I'm nearly sure they don't.
What happens to that money?
I've never seen anything posted on the subject.
They have 75% of $33 billions (with a 'b') of the USDC circulating as short-term US treasuries (with every single individual ID of the short-term treasuries publicly posted).
So someone is basically printing free money by having about $25 bn in short term US treasuries yielding atm something insane like 4% yearly.
I don't know who's pocketing that money but that's about $1 billion, yearly, in yields from the short term US treasuries.
If somehow Coinbase (or "Centre" but Centre is Circle + Coinbase) is pocketing that money, they probably could allow 0% fees trading everywhere and still be one of the most profitable HN unicorn out there.
Does Coinbase give APY on people keeping USDC at Coinbase? I have no idea. Does Coinbase give APY on people withdrawing USDC to private wallets? I think they don't. I'm nearly sure they don't.
What happens to that money?
I've never seen anything posted on the subject.
Coinbase does provide interest on balances held in USDC. But no, if you withdraw it to your own wallet that does not happen.
FWIW, I specifically chose to say "Coinbase" as my mental model here is that Coinbase is an exchange and Circle issues the stablecoin and maybe Coinbase has a deal to get interest from Circle for all the USDC held by Coinbase and maybe even is given some kind of kickback for deposits and withdrawals, but that doesn't really mean much for the business model of running an exchange: Circle directly provides fiat on-ramp services to companies and could to individuals as well (given that their competitor Paxos supports both kinds of user).
FWIW, my defense of Coinbase in specific is that they are a very large exchange that has achieved enough of a network effect that in a world where only one exchange is used by people in the United States, it probably will be Coinbase. The only other competitors right now are Kraken--which I love but have to admit is quite a bit smaller--and... Binance.US... which I think is much more likely to perish under US regulatory crackdown.
But like, Bittrex wouldn't have been on my list yesterday and now can't be on my list as they decided to shut down in the United States, and I think the argument monero-mxr made--that this is because decentralized exchanges now exist and "long tail" centralized exchanges are somewhat pointless--makes a lot of sense.
But then people did the usual thing of kind of trying to claim decentralized exchanges were meaningless as you still are going to likely want at least one company to deal with USD directly... and that went too far, as the decentralized exchange can still dominate the landscape even if you still need this trivial dumb money pipe on the other side, the same way my ISP doesn't make anywhere need as much money as AOL was hoping to because it got commoditized by the world wide web.
FWIW, I specifically chose to say "Coinbase" as my mental model here is that Coinbase is an exchange and Circle issues the stablecoin and maybe Coinbase has a deal to get interest from Circle for all the USDC held by Coinbase and maybe even is given some kind of kickback for deposits and withdrawals, but that doesn't really mean much for the business model of running an exchange: Circle directly provides fiat on-ramp services to companies and could to individuals as well (given that their competitor Paxos supports both kinds of user).
FWIW, my defense of Coinbase in specific is that they are a very large exchange that has achieved enough of a network effect that in a world where only one exchange is used by people in the United States, it probably will be Coinbase. The only other competitors right now are Kraken--which I love but have to admit is quite a bit smaller--and... Binance.US... which I think is much more likely to perish under US regulatory crackdown.
But like, Bittrex wouldn't have been on my list yesterday and now can't be on my list as they decided to shut down in the United States, and I think the argument monero-mxr made--that this is because decentralized exchanges now exist and "long tail" centralized exchanges are somewhat pointless--makes a lot of sense.
But then people did the usual thing of kind of trying to claim decentralized exchanges were meaningless as you still are going to likely want at least one company to deal with USD directly... and that went too far, as the decentralized exchange can still dominate the landscape even if you still need this trivial dumb money pipe on the other side, the same way my ISP doesn't make anywhere need as much money as AOL was hoping to because it got commoditized by the world wide web.
*in the US
Bittrex Global continues, along with the other 600+ centralised exchanges [0] unfortunately excluded in American-centric reality.
[0] https://blockspot.io/exchange/
Bittrex Global continues, along with the other 600+ centralised exchanges [0] unfortunately excluded in American-centric reality.
[0] https://blockspot.io/exchange/
I guess the issue I foresee is that many perp DEXes aren't available in the USA. Gemini is opening a perp CEX soon I think. May be the last bastion for smaller CEXes: having enough regulatory favorability/connections to copy DeFi until the music stops.
A DEX wouldn't fundamentally exist in any specific regulatory environment... how would one somehow not be available in the US?
It would be unavailable in the sense that US entities would be legally prohibited from transacting with it, in the same way that US entities are prohibited from transacting with Binance (and, to the extent that they're flouting this prohibition, they're getting in trouble for it).
Coinbase and Binance are firmly under the microscope of the US Department of Justice (DOJ)
Would you expect they will rug pull GUSD? I assume this, like with USDC, would be seriously illegal, but it also wouldn't surprise me if they had some ToS provisions somewhere waiving their obligation to redeem GUSD for USD.
End of a crappy era, in the US
The extortion racket bucket shops cant go fast enough!
Long live DEX’s, liquidity pool technology has been an incredible boon to the crypto space, shifting dynamics away from exchanges directly to the project issuers and community.
The extortion racket bucket shops cant go fast enough!
Long live DEX’s, liquidity pool technology has been an incredible boon to the crypto space, shifting dynamics away from exchanges directly to the project issuers and community.
yeah except now you will exchange your fiat into crypto with some shady guy instead of a somewhat-trustable big entity with reputation.
there are, and will be, other fiat onramps
Even Paypal and Cashapp are trusted crypto exchanges now. The crypto you receive there can be withdrawn and access the entire crypto economy.
Even Paypal and Cashapp are trusted crypto exchanges now. The crypto you receive there can be withdrawn and access the entire crypto economy.
The code is open source, your only risks are bugs, exploits and the government.
By shady guy, the commenter is likey referring to peer-to-peer marketplace swapping of fiat and crypto, not DEXes. DEXes cannot offer fiat currencies since it is inherently centralized. AFAIK, the only options to exchange fiat are centralized exchanges and peer-to-peer marketplaces, both of which rely on extensive trust in a very small number of people, and are not open-source or publicly-auditable.
Without any fiat on-ramp crypto is worthless. its value is always measured by how much fiat it can be sold for. without that it has no value. what are you gonna do, go mail a stranger cash for coins? send him gold bars for coins? lol. this crap is OVER. please wake up! or dont, i don't really care..
Stop raging, your argument is invalid simply because I can exchange crypto for goods and services and you don't even see this simple problem
Glad we agree the IRS shouldn’t be taxing something that has no value.
Bugs, exploits, and "only problems" in the same sentence are what makes it funny, especially when your money is on the line and the most popular smart contract lang is JavaScript for blockchain edition
I mean it certainly does the job but I'd die from stress if I would risk releasing a bug that could wipe hundreds of millions of users' money. I respect people who are good enough at Solidity to be reasonably confident.
I mean it certainly does the job but I'd die from stress if I would risk releasing a bug that could wipe hundreds of millions of users' money. I respect people who are good enough at Solidity to be reasonably confident.
Good.
Crypto has no use case at all and the exchanges harboring these speculative tokens needs to be destroyed.
Crypto has no use case at all and the exchanges harboring these speculative tokens needs to be destroyed.
Ignoring that I don't agree with you, don't you think the current financial system is a complete mess? From the technical side to the trust side.
How is the current system 'a mess'?
It powers the whole world. Almost every kind of transaction you can think of.
If people would follow the regs most things would work.
I think the biggest issue is transactional drag aka something needs to replace VISA, and should be nicer consumer protections for personal accounts but for the most part it works.
Nothing Crypto has offered is better, not even close.
I suggest someday that may happen, but it will 'feel' much more like traditional bakning when it happens.
There is a reason why banking is the most 'buttoned down, small-c conservative' industry because oversight, competency etc. all of that matters. It's that world.
... notwithstanding some other issues that would exist with crypto as well, such as mortgage lending etc..
It powers the whole world. Almost every kind of transaction you can think of.
If people would follow the regs most things would work.
I think the biggest issue is transactional drag aka something needs to replace VISA, and should be nicer consumer protections for personal accounts but for the most part it works.
Nothing Crypto has offered is better, not even close.
I suggest someday that may happen, but it will 'feel' much more like traditional bakning when it happens.
There is a reason why banking is the most 'buttoned down, small-c conservative' industry because oversight, competency etc. all of that matters. It's that world.
... notwithstanding some other issues that would exist with crypto as well, such as mortgage lending etc..
>How is the current system 'a mess'?
>It powers the whole world.
This is a sentence that could be said at any point in history, about any dominant "system", financial or otherwise.
How could slavery be a 'a mess'? It powers the whole world. How could feudalism be 'a mess'? It powers the whole world. How could nomadic hunter-gatherer tribes be 'a mess'? It powers the whole world.
This is a sentence that could be said at any point in history, about any dominant "system", financial or otherwise.
How could slavery be a 'a mess'? It powers the whole world. How could feudalism be 'a mess'? It powers the whole world. How could nomadic hunter-gatherer tribes be 'a mess'? It powers the whole world.
While the crypto industry has shown itself to be a pillar of ethics, engineering and usability?
Yes?
We should not be replacing a system with a completely destructive and even worse one which is crypto.
Government backed money is the worst form of money, except all the others have been tried including crypto.
Government backed money is the worst form of money, except all the others have been tried including crypto.
On the timescale of money, crypto has not existed long enough to say it's been "tried" (or at least not long enough to say it's not worth continuing the experiment / continuing to try).
What it has done, which seems to exist outside the blinkered view, is that for a number of years now, bitcoin and some other cryptocurrencies have been very successful at being transferable between two parties no matter their geographical location and without a third party acting as intermediary or authority.
For those who participate, this is an exchange of value. For those who don't participate it should be at least seen as a half decent proof of concept of something that could be used as an exchange of value (money).
What it has done, which seems to exist outside the blinkered view, is that for a number of years now, bitcoin and some other cryptocurrencies have been very successful at being transferable between two parties no matter their geographical location and without a third party acting as intermediary or authority.
For those who participate, this is an exchange of value. For those who don't participate it should be at least seen as a half decent proof of concept of something that could be used as an exchange of value (money).
> proof of concept
Yet this 'proof of concept' is too slow to be used in the real world after 15+ years with little to nobody using it at all.
UPI has been available for 6 years with almost 700 million users and is expanding their network globally.
So even by trying to send money, there is no need for crypto at all for this case as this has already been improved and done by the current system.
You might as well use Wise, UPI and other regulated money transfer services that exist in current system.
I look forward to FedNow removing even more need for crypto to exist.
Yet this 'proof of concept' is too slow to be used in the real world after 15+ years with little to nobody using it at all.
UPI has been available for 6 years with almost 700 million users and is expanding their network globally.
So even by trying to send money, there is no need for crypto at all for this case as this has already been improved and done by the current system.
You might as well use Wise, UPI and other regulated money transfer services that exist in current system.
I look forward to FedNow removing even more need for crypto to exist.
No. Especially compared to known alternatives, very much including crypto.
Or then we have a very different definition of "complete mess". For the record, I have no reason to doubt the value of my savings account fluctuates wildly and the savings account is guaranteed by government for my practical purposes. I can make all the payments I need to make free/with very modest fee. In most cases, for practical purposes, the payments are immediate. If I happen to need, I can borrow money against my non-money non liquid assets. I can't describe this situation as "a complete mess". To my understanding crypto offers practically none of these benefits in any kind of robust way. This from european perspective.
Or then we have a very different definition of "complete mess". For the record, I have no reason to doubt the value of my savings account fluctuates wildly and the savings account is guaranteed by government for my practical purposes. I can make all the payments I need to make free/with very modest fee. In most cases, for practical purposes, the payments are immediate. If I happen to need, I can borrow money against my non-money non liquid assets. I can't describe this situation as "a complete mess". To my understanding crypto offers practically none of these benefits in any kind of robust way. This from european perspective.
Everything you mentioned and implied here is the case for every fiat currency also. Using Japanese Yen to buy food at a US grocery store is unlikely to be practical. Just as trying to use USD in Japan is impractical. The only substantial difference is that crypto's practical jurisdiction is primarily the internet, with some adoption in the "real-world" (shops/services that choose to accept crypto). This makes crypto incredibly practical for online transactions but only practical for real-world applications where it has been adopted. Most crypto payments can be done for cheap, quickly (seconds to minutes), in a practically trust-less environment (not the case for fiat), and are irrevocable (which is a benefit for many). You can borrow crypto with crypto lenders against just about anything legally enforceable, including your house or car (although willing crypto lenders are becoming scarcer and more expensive with the increasingly inconsistent regulatory behavior of the US Government). A major advantage cryptocurrencies such as Ethereum have, is that they provide practically trust-less contracts between entities, evaluated by code rather than a possibly incompetent or compromised judge as you might get in the real-world.
Just FYI, payments in the traditional banking systems are very much not immediate, they just appear that way from your perspective. The perspective usually breaks down if you try to move a large amount of currency around, you will get anything from straight up denials, many month waiting periods, money getting "lost" in processing for months, and large surprise fees. The "immediate" transaction illusion you see are just agreements between major financial entities to make transactions appear fast but are limited volume to reduce banks risk. For example, common credit card transactions, no matter how small, are not actually cleared for over 150 days. Based on my experience European banks are no different although I haven't tried it as often as I have in the US.
Just FYI, payments in the traditional banking systems are very much not immediate, they just appear that way from your perspective. The perspective usually breaks down if you try to move a large amount of currency around, you will get anything from straight up denials, many month waiting periods, money getting "lost" in processing for months, and large surprise fees. The "immediate" transaction illusion you see are just agreements between major financial entities to make transactions appear fast but are limited volume to reduce banks risk. For example, common credit card transactions, no matter how small, are not actually cleared for over 150 days. Based on my experience European banks are no different although I haven't tried it as often as I have in the US.
> Japanese Yen to buy food at a US grocery store is unlikely to be practical.
Hmmm. There is this thing within the current awful mess of a finacial system called credit card which allows me to pay very practically all over the world. Funny enough, though, that cryptofolk were at some point very vocally telling that you can "use" crypto by using a crypto credit card.
> Just FYI, payments in the traditional banking systems are very much not immediate, they just appear that way from your perspective
And that is why I was careful to formulate "In most cases, for practical purposes"
Hmmm. There is this thing within the current awful mess of a finacial system called credit card which allows me to pay very practically all over the world. Funny enough, though, that cryptofolk were at some point very vocally telling that you can "use" crypto by using a crypto credit card.
> Just FYI, payments in the traditional banking systems are very much not immediate, they just appear that way from your perspective
And that is why I was careful to formulate "In most cases, for practical purposes"
They are only ceasing to operate in US, they will continue to serve rest of the world (95.75% of world population).
The US has 20% of the global crypto market and it's responsible for 40% of all transactions. That's pretty significant.
Usually (and in almost all cases) the world follows the US so will be not surprised when governments will completely ban crypto into the dark web.
When it comes to crypto regulations though, US is lagging behind. Crypto is already taxed as gambling in India and is pretty much out of popular discourse. Just one season of crypto platforms advertising on India's biggest sporting league (IPL) made the regulators sit up and take notice of the shady practices and put an end to it. I believe crypto is very much dead in China as well.
financial services, for speculation, is the biggest industry on the planet
saying “no use case” and “speculative” in the same sentence is always hilarious, yeah, service the speculators
its financial services and entertainment, the latter of which is also a big sector and valuable to humans
saying “no use case” and “speculative” in the same sentence is always hilarious, yeah, service the speculators
its financial services and entertainment, the latter of which is also a big sector and valuable to humans
I'm not sure what use case is a speculative pyramid scheme like crypto, where there is no intrinsic value at all.
It is a morally repugnant gambling speculative vice which destroys lives and is even worse than fiat.
Not to mention Bitcoin and the like burning the planet trying to solve useless puzzles.
It is a morally repugnant gambling speculative vice which destroys lives and is even worse than fiat.
Not to mention Bitcoin and the like burning the planet trying to solve useless puzzles.
> I'm not sure what use case is a speculative pyramid scheme like crypto, where there is no intrinsic value at all.
Modern currencies like USD, EUR, JPY etc. don't have intrinsic value either.
> It is a morally repugnant gambling speculative vice which destroys lives and is even worse than fiat.
We should ban speculative buying of comics, gaming skins, Pokémon cards and, of course, gambling in casinos worldwide too. Also, the gambling on Robinhood is morally repugnant too, as grown up adults can't be trusted to manage their money.
> Not to mention Bitcoin and the like burning the planet trying to solve useless puzzles.
The value in solving the puzzles is securing the network (no other network is as secure as Bitcoin, see [1]). Gold mining uses the same energy amount as BTC. [2] Only 8% of Gold of the gold dug up is used for productive means by the industry. The rest is bought by speculators, jewelries and central banks because it's shiny. [3]
[1] https://howmanyconfs.com/
[2] https://ccaf.io/cbeci/index
[3] https://www.statista.com/statistics/299609/gold-demand-by-in...
Modern currencies like USD, EUR, JPY etc. don't have intrinsic value either.
> It is a morally repugnant gambling speculative vice which destroys lives and is even worse than fiat.
We should ban speculative buying of comics, gaming skins, Pokémon cards and, of course, gambling in casinos worldwide too. Also, the gambling on Robinhood is morally repugnant too, as grown up adults can't be trusted to manage their money.
> Not to mention Bitcoin and the like burning the planet trying to solve useless puzzles.
The value in solving the puzzles is securing the network (no other network is as secure as Bitcoin, see [1]). Gold mining uses the same energy amount as BTC. [2] Only 8% of Gold of the gold dug up is used for productive means by the industry. The rest is bought by speculators, jewelries and central banks because it's shiny. [3]
[1] https://howmanyconfs.com/
[2] https://ccaf.io/cbeci/index
[3] https://www.statista.com/statistics/299609/gold-demand-by-in...
> Modern currencies like USD, EUR, JPY etc. don't have intrinsic value either.
Arguably, they are like ownership into the country's GDP and military influence no?
Arguably, they are like ownership into the country's GDP and military influence no?
> Arguably, they are like ownership into the country's GDP and military influence no?
Well, yes, but that doesn't give you intrinsic value. If you are long a currency, you make a bet that other people have confidence in the government's ability to enforce the currency and keep economic output high enough to keep the value stable.
However, if the government collapses, the money becomes completely worthless. There is no commodity, product, or service backing it up.
Well, yes, but that doesn't give you intrinsic value. If you are long a currency, you make a bet that other people have confidence in the government's ability to enforce the currency and keep economic output high enough to keep the value stable.
However, if the government collapses, the money becomes completely worthless. There is no commodity, product, or service backing it up.
Education is speculative gambling that teaching the student will amount to them increasing productivity enough to be worth the resources (time, money, supplies) spent educating them.
Driving is speculative gambling that reaching your destination faster will be more profitable than the cost of the vehicle, wear and tear, gas/electricity, cost associated with risk of car crash.
Eating is speculative gambling that the one eating will provide more value in some way than the value of the food and water they consume.
this laughable line of argument isn't even worth a debate, we both know that education, driving and eating aren't pyramid/ponzi schemes.
Yeah, your right, there is no point in arguing with someone who just labels everything as laughable but cant back up anything they say.
You only have to look here to see why $12 billion worth of hard earned cash has been wasted to crypto on scams, hacks, rugpulls and just straight up fraud.
https://web3isgoinggreat.com/
> Education is speculative gambling... Driving is speculative gambling...Eating is speculative gambling...
I also hope and assume you have reputable evidence of all three of these in the next hour or two (!)
https://web3isgoinggreat.com/
> Education is speculative gambling... Driving is speculative gambling...Eating is speculative gambling...
I also hope and assume you have reputable evidence of all three of these in the next hour or two (!)
speculation is a use case, you’re grasping for a distinction that’s not found, and if you find it you’ll simultaneously be talking about 99% of all transactional activity in the world economy.
yes, gambling is a big industry too, why do you keep naming use cases that have validation of their value?
yes, gambling is a big industry too, why do you keep naming use cases that have validation of their value?
What can you do with speculation other than causing people to lose their life savings?
What good is there in a so called currency based on fictitious tokens created out of thin air and backed by completely nothing and adding nothing useful to society?
Even Nvidia agrees:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/mar/26/cryptocur...
At least gambling is regulated where as crypto is a unregulated decentralised wild west where there is no protections whatsoever.
Where is the use case in people losing money in a pyramid scheme using crypto tokens?
What good is there in a so called currency based on fictitious tokens created out of thin air and backed by completely nothing and adding nothing useful to society?
Even Nvidia agrees:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/mar/26/cryptocur...
At least gambling is regulated where as crypto is a unregulated decentralised wild west where there is no protections whatsoever.
Where is the use case in people losing money in a pyramid scheme using crypto tokens?
I'm not convinced you know what you're trying to ask. What do you mean by "use case" other than the reasons for which people want something? The person you're responding to said that people want it so they can speculate and gamble with it. You can dislike these vices all you want but you're seeming to speak to some objectivity which you haven't done much to explain.
We both know the whole point of the crypto use case is to become an alternative or a replacement to fiat, to which it isn't and cannot be.
Speculation is not a legitimate use case for something that aims to become a currency. If I am trying to buy a loaf of bread with a crypto token and the price plummets and fluctuates wildly for no reason that is backed by nothing, it is not useful at all.
You can try and justify crypto all you want, However and objectively speaking, there are far too many pyramid schemes, far too many ponzi schemes, scams, rugpulls and ransomware crypto payments, unregistered ICOs that crypto is harbouring to even take seriously after 15 years of its existence.
I'm glad the crackdown is happening.
Speculation is not a legitimate use case for something that aims to become a currency. If I am trying to buy a loaf of bread with a crypto token and the price plummets and fluctuates wildly for no reason that is backed by nothing, it is not useful at all.
You can try and justify crypto all you want, However and objectively speaking, there are far too many pyramid schemes, far too many ponzi schemes, scams, rugpulls and ransomware crypto payments, unregistered ICOs that crypto is harbouring to even take seriously after 15 years of its existence.
I'm glad the crackdown is happening.
Are you older than 15?
Are you struggling to make a point here?
You could just say a relevant point rather than failing to make a point like crypto.
You could just say a relevant point rather than failing to make a point like crypto.
It was a genuine question, and from your response I'm guessing the answer is "no". If you're wondering what provoked the question, it was the crying about "unregistered" ICOs - at that point it was clear that you're either a child or an adult with a child-like need for external authority to make you feel safe.
Pro-tip going forward in life: try not to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Pro-tip going forward in life: try not to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
It's an irrelevant question and doesn't change my point at all.
In fact crypto bros like yourself are the ones asking for regulatory clarity, to which it is you that is in need of an external authority to save you from yourselves.
Because crypto and it's industry clearly cannot save itself, that's why it needs regulation. With or without regulation crypto will collapse anyway.
In fact crypto bros like yourself are the ones asking for regulatory clarity, to which it is you that is in need of an external authority to save you from yourselves.
Because crypto and it's industry clearly cannot save itself, that's why it needs regulation. With or without regulation crypto will collapse anyway.
I didn't choose 15 at random.
It's unclear why you think putting words in my mouth is going to achieve anything. ICOs don't need any special regulations, existing contract law is fine.
Finally, I'm not sure why you've written "regulatory clarity" there. Of course we'd like the authorities to act in a predicable way, but that's an orthagonal issue to how restrictive those regulations should be. It feels like you're just throwing out phrases you don't quite understand.
It's unclear why you think putting words in my mouth is going to achieve anything. ICOs don't need any special regulations, existing contract law is fine.
Finally, I'm not sure why you've written "regulatory clarity" there. Of course we'd like the authorities to act in a predicable way, but that's an orthagonal issue to how restrictive those regulations should be. It feels like you're just throwing out phrases you don't quite understand.
gear54rus(1)
Crypto does a pretty great job of keeping your hands off of other people’s money, is that a problem?
But it does an even better job of losing your money, a problem for millions of people.
Which is completely irrelevant because you’re free to use whatever currency you want, crypto or not. This discussion is about whether or not you have the right to make it illegal for me to do the same.
> Which is completely irrelevant because you’re free to use whatever currency you want, crypto or not.
Free to use any regulated currency. Crypto is completely unregulated and too volatile to be used as a currency. It will be made illegal very quickly in a few years time, we already have India and China clamping down so you won't have to wait that long.
Inevitably, we will see when the governments of the world band together to push crypto into the dark web and you'll never be able to cash out your crypto tokens into the real world through exchanges.
Once again, another easy way to lose your money.
Free to use any regulated currency. Crypto is completely unregulated and too volatile to be used as a currency. It will be made illegal very quickly in a few years time, we already have India and China clamping down so you won't have to wait that long.
Inevitably, we will see when the governments of the world band together to push crypto into the dark web and you'll never be able to cash out your crypto tokens into the real world through exchanges.
Once again, another easy way to lose your money.
Oh no, how will you ever survive without regulating other people’s money. Hardest part about business is minding your own, however difficult it may be for people like you to keep your hands out of other people’s wallets.
> Hardest part about business is minding your own, however difficult it may be for people like you to keep your hands out of other people’s wallets.
Except if you are in the crypto exchange business and you need to unload your fake tokens for real cash, just like how FTX and other failed exchanges took everyone's money from their wallets when they failed.
When will you stop running from exchange to exchange to try cash out your tokens because of a bank run?
Except if you are in the crypto exchange business and you need to unload your fake tokens for real cash, just like how FTX and other failed exchanges took everyone's money from their wallets when they failed.
When will you stop running from exchange to exchange to try cash out your tokens because of a bank run?
If it’s investor protections it should be opt in. If it’s not opt in, stop pretending it’s investor protections. Your economic policies depend on seizing other people’s money and I’m sure that has nothing to do with this at all.
Should it also be illegal to trade my fake tokens for other fake tokens other via decentralized exchanges?
Should it also be illegal to trade my fake tokens for other fake tokens other via decentralized exchanges?
> stop pretending it’s investor protections.
There is no investor protections in crypto at all, especially if is all retail getting scammed all the time.
> Should it also be illegal to trade my fake tokens for other fake tokens other via decentralized exchanges?
Once it is deemed an unregistered security then yes, it should be illegal and it will be illegal.
There is no way around it once crypto gets pushed down into the dark web where you can only cash out with illegal drugs instead of fiat.
This is where crypto is heading.
There is no investor protections in crypto at all, especially if is all retail getting scammed all the time.
> Should it also be illegal to trade my fake tokens for other fake tokens other via decentralized exchanges?
Once it is deemed an unregistered security then yes, it should be illegal and it will be illegal.
There is no way around it once crypto gets pushed down into the dark web where you can only cash out with illegal drugs instead of fiat.
This is where crypto is heading.
I’m glad we agree that the policies you are defending are state sponsored looting and not supposed investor protections. The code for all decentralized exchanges is open source. You aren’t being scammed by anyone, you volunteered to participate in the market. You aren’t a victim for losing a trade you chose to participate in.
> I’m glad we agree that the policies you are defending are state sponsored looting..
Seems to me that FTX's spectacular collapse was a bigger case of looting than what your getting confused with, caused by their own mess rather than the state.
> ...and not supposed investor protections
I fail to see where was investor protections were when FTX and other exchanges collapsed.
> The code for all decentralized exchanges is open source.
Irrelevant.
> You aren’t being scammed by anyone, you volunteered to participate in the market. You aren’t a victim for losing a trade you chose to participate in.
When family members, cousins, in-laws and friends are getting themselves involved with crypto and asking everyone around to bail them out or join, it is a major problem for everyone who knows them.
Seems to me that FTX's spectacular collapse was a bigger case of looting than what your getting confused with, caused by their own mess rather than the state.
> ...and not supposed investor protections
I fail to see where was investor protections were when FTX and other exchanges collapsed.
> The code for all decentralized exchanges is open source.
Irrelevant.
> You aren’t being scammed by anyone, you volunteered to participate in the market. You aren’t a victim for losing a trade you chose to participate in.
When family members, cousins, in-laws and friends are getting themselves involved with crypto and asking everyone around to bail them out or join, it is a major problem for everyone who knows them.
You can go after FTX, what do I have to do with that? Looting my wallet in the name of FTX smells strongly of the redistribution of consequences. Authoritarians like yourself sure do love to punish innocent people for the actions of the guilty.
I’m not in favour of bailouts to anybody, nor taxes that fund those bailouts. Take nobody’s money from them and give nobody’s money to me. Like I said, the code is all open source, you can verify any suspicions you have yourself. There is no scam, you’re just grasping for reasons to regulate other people’s money.
I’m not in favour of bailouts to anybody, nor taxes that fund those bailouts. Take nobody’s money from them and give nobody’s money to me. Like I said, the code is all open source, you can verify any suspicions you have yourself. There is no scam, you’re just grasping for reasons to regulate other people’s money.
[deleted]
How confusing! I thought the headline referred to the ultra-bitter chemical that stops kids eating things they shouldn't. But that "bitrex" just has one T.
Fun fact, Nintendo Switch cartridges are coated in it.
Fun fact, Nintendo Switch cartridges are coated in it.
I thought that's what it was too! I expected to be reading about how they were forced to shut down because the chemical was super toxic after extended exposure or something like that.
@dang can this title have “in the United States” appended to it? They’re still continuing worldwide operations.
Not a Bittrex user but this makes me genuinely glad not to live in the US.
Imagine being happy for not leaving on the wealthiest nation on earth because a specific magic beans trading venue is shutting down.
It's like the maga incels who work at walmart but complain taxes are too high.
It's like the maga incels who work at walmart but complain taxes are too high.
I have always liked Bittrex. Have been a user for many years now. Indeed they’ve never been hacked and their support is pretty good. Sad to see this happen.
Have to say that as an EU based user I feel a bit uneasy about this though. Perhaps it’s time for some cold wallets or, as I’m reading here, a dex.
Have to say that as an EU based user I feel a bit uneasy about this though. Perhaps it’s time for some cold wallets or, as I’m reading here, a dex.
I guess this is good for Bitcoin in the absolute shortest term... I expect Bitcoin/maincoin dominance will go up if Bittrex has any reasonable volume.