Ask HN: To the introverts and socially avoidant, how the heck do you network?
20 comments
I don't. Consequently, I've held a series of low-paying jobs all my life, each one only marginally better than the last.
I understand the importance of networking, I just don't have access to anyone, nor the ability to sell myself.
I don't either. Arrived in the world like I've been thrown out on a bowling alley. Took me over 40 years to gain some traction in anything, while learning to deeply hate the world, before I started unlearning all that hate. To me, being intro was a survival skill. Some slow path, but hey, I'm no sprinter. Now knowing better, I'm choosing the intro way above anything else for its meaningfulness.
In real life that means getting totally invested in a field, doing the 10,000 hours thing and becoming a pro in that field, then aiming at becoming something like an authority or an expert. And waiting and watching for anyone in need of my particular set of skills. From there, my resume speaks much louder than me.
In real life that means getting totally invested in a field, doing the 10,000 hours thing and becoming a pro in that field, then aiming at becoming something like an authority or an expert. And waiting and watching for anyone in need of my particular set of skills. From there, my resume speaks much louder than me.
Introversion often comes from social super powers. Introverts can be more sensitive and pick up on social cues from others more readily. I consider myself a "social introvert" this way - relationships are important, but I can be easily overwhelmed, and need a break. For many introverts, they are just as social, they just have to pace themselves.
I network by going deep rather than broad in my relationships. I don't worry about the quantity, but the quality. Over time, this snowballs where I develop a rich network gradually over time.
I observe a lot of extroverts can develop many superficial relationships that decay quickly... So I'd actually ask the opposite question, how to extroverts build a robust network? :-p
I network by going deep rather than broad in my relationships. I don't worry about the quantity, but the quality. Over time, this snowballs where I develop a rich network gradually over time.
I observe a lot of extroverts can develop many superficial relationships that decay quickly... So I'd actually ask the opposite question, how to extroverts build a robust network? :-p
^^^ this is the way. Spend your time on deep relationships with worthwhile people and remarkable things can happen.
This is good advice and it reminds me of the highly sensitive personality type. It's distinct from introversion (extroverts can have it too) and there is research that shows that it exists in about 20% (IIRC) of the population and shows up in other species too. Elaine Aron has written about it. I would recommend anyone who considers themselves to be sensitive to empower themselves and learn about it.
Networking isn't about talking to people, but about building mutually beneficial relationships. Those can require very little talk.
Sometimes I see places where we'd both gain a lot from a cashless transaction, so I make it happen. For example I send them clients and they advise me every once in a while. We're not drinking buddies, just two businesses helping each other out. We rarely talk.
In other cases I just build stuff and put it out there. It acts as a beacon for people who like that stuff. People often reach out to talk shop and good things happen. I meet people in the strangest places.
Others seem to follow my social media updates and bring them up in phone calls, so they must have some impact too.
If I don't feel like seeing people, I can still do those things without feeling overburdened.
Sometimes I see places where we'd both gain a lot from a cashless transaction, so I make it happen. For example I send them clients and they advise me every once in a while. We're not drinking buddies, just two businesses helping each other out. We rarely talk.
In other cases I just build stuff and put it out there. It acts as a beacon for people who like that stuff. People often reach out to talk shop and good things happen. I meet people in the strangest places.
Others seem to follow my social media updates and bring them up in phone calls, so they must have some impact too.
If I don't feel like seeing people, I can still do those things without feeling overburdened.
Establishing good relationships with peers at work isn't that hard. What gets hard for me, over the years and as the number of contacts grow, is maintaining these relationships in a way that doesn't feel superficial or transactional. Add in a few moves around the country during your career and a long tenure or two somewhere and it can be even harder.
If it helps, an ex-coworker reconnecting with me to discuss job opportunities would be fine with me. It wouldn't bother me. We both know we're talking about jobs, maybe we were good acquaintances, maybe not.
I guess what I'm getting at is that I wouldn't be offended if an old coworker contacted me about a job after not hearing from them for years. We're all busy and have many priorities in our lives. It's kind of understood that we can't keep up with everyone.
I guess what I'm getting at is that I wouldn't be offended if an old coworker contacted me about a job after not hearing from them for years. We're all busy and have many priorities in our lives. It's kind of understood that we can't keep up with everyone.
> transactional
Your network should be somewhat transactional. They don't call it your friend circle or your family, that's different.
Your network are people who can be (potentially) useful to you in your career or life goals. In return, you typically are (potentially) useful to them.
The oft-repeated story of a colleague moving on and then giving you a recommendation for hire at their new gig when you start looking is a transactional relationship. Both parties got something out of it, and I don't see anything wrong with acknowledging that. Even if those parties didn't really speak for a few years in between.
Plenty of folks I consider in my network and "good" friends I haven't spoken to in a couple years. If they called me at this moment I'd drop everything and pick up the call, and at least try to help them with whatever their reasonable need is. And I expect the same to be similar in reverse as well.
Your network should be somewhat transactional. They don't call it your friend circle or your family, that's different.
Your network are people who can be (potentially) useful to you in your career or life goals. In return, you typically are (potentially) useful to them.
The oft-repeated story of a colleague moving on and then giving you a recommendation for hire at their new gig when you start looking is a transactional relationship. Both parties got something out of it, and I don't see anything wrong with acknowledging that. Even if those parties didn't really speak for a few years in between.
Plenty of folks I consider in my network and "good" friends I haven't spoken to in a couple years. If they called me at this moment I'd drop everything and pick up the call, and at least try to help them with whatever their reasonable need is. And I expect the same to be similar in reverse as well.
>They don't call it your friend circle or your family, that's different.
Hahaa, citation needed.
Embrace the interpersonal blackpill... unu
Hahaa, citation needed.
Embrace the interpersonal blackpill... unu
The problem with the interpersonal blackpill is that when people find out about it, they feel used, like a means to an end. I guess it's ethical to announce it to people before interacting with them, but that's so outside social norms, that I don't see it happening. Moreover, it necessitates the question, is it easier than being kind, caring and warm to people and form genuine and meaningful connections?
Take it at your own pace and be genuinely interested in learning about others. You don't have to be a rousing conversationalist. Active listening is a superpower and people are attracted to those who listen.
Be careful how you identify yourself. While it may be true that you're an introvert, be aware that along with that label you may be imposing artificial limitations on yourself.
I highly recommend the book "Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking" by Susan Cain. Our culture idealizes extroverts to the point where we as introverts don't recognize what a gift it can be. The book contains a wealth of research and stories and is incredibly empowering.
Also if you're socially avoidant, there's a reason for that and I would recommend investigating it through introspection and/or working with a counselor. Human beings are social creatures and we suffer when we lack meaningful connection with others.
Be careful how you identify yourself. While it may be true that you're an introvert, be aware that along with that label you may be imposing artificial limitations on yourself.
I highly recommend the book "Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking" by Susan Cain. Our culture idealizes extroverts to the point where we as introverts don't recognize what a gift it can be. The book contains a wealth of research and stories and is incredibly empowering.
Also if you're socially avoidant, there's a reason for that and I would recommend investigating it through introspection and/or working with a counselor. Human beings are social creatures and we suffer when we lack meaningful connection with others.
What if you like being alone and have no interest in others?
Should that always be considered a character flaw that needs fixing? I guess that's a question I've been asking myself my whole life... I'm often told I need to change and should be social, but my personality is only seen as a problem in the eyes of others. I'm perfectly happy being antisocial.
But I guess in my case I also expect nothing of others in return so I don't ask questions like OP. If I don't care for others then I can't expect others to care about me.
Should that always be considered a character flaw that needs fixing? I guess that's a question I've been asking myself my whole life... I'm often told I need to change and should be social, but my personality is only seen as a problem in the eyes of others. I'm perfectly happy being antisocial.
But I guess in my case I also expect nothing of others in return so I don't ask questions like OP. If I don't care for others then I can't expect others to care about me.
I wouldn't say it's a character flaw. If you're happy being alone then you should feel free to pursue what makes you happy. But if other people can rouse doubt in you about it, then maybe it's worth investigating further.
I love being alone and I have a rich inner life. Relationships are messy, awkward, and sometimes painful but so is life. It's in relationship with others that I get to know myself better. I see it as two sides of the same coin, and for me, when those two sides aren't balanced, I suffer for it.
I love being alone and I have a rich inner life. Relationships are messy, awkward, and sometimes painful but so is life. It's in relationship with others that I get to know myself better. I see it as two sides of the same coin, and for me, when those two sides aren't balanced, I suffer for it.
And here you are interacting with someone by making that reply. Now in this particular setting, do you feel that inertia or repulsion at having made that interaction?
I guess to be clear, I have zero interest in probing into that persons life. But that doesn't mean I have no interest in their thoughts.
I do like to talk to others about tangible things where there is an objective to the conversation. It's simply the idea of socialising for the sake of being social that I don't get.
Humans are cool, I just don't care about how you're feeling today or your opinion on the weather, etc – that is unless telling me because you need my advice or opinion. Then I'm happy to talk.
I do like to talk to others about tangible things where there is an objective to the conversation. It's simply the idea of socialising for the sake of being social that I don't get.
Humans are cool, I just don't care about how you're feeling today or your opinion on the weather, etc – that is unless telling me because you need my advice or opinion. Then I'm happy to talk.
Well what do you think about this then: Open a linkedin account, use high privacy settings where you don't show your photo, or use a blank color instead of a photo, and engage with people in the comment sections when it comes to discussing ideas that you are interested in
No hellos, no posting, no BS like that, but eventually you get to know people that way
No hellos, no posting, no BS like that, but eventually you get to know people that way
I'm introverted by nature (most wouldn't think so by talking to me, but I have (and do) expend a huge amount of energy trying to be as extroverted as I can :) )
My "networking" started small - people I happened to know who knew people (think: parents' friends, etc)
Every job I've ever held (except one) came via "knowing someone" and/or "they found me"
That all said, I've made a concerted effort to get into roles that force me to interact with new people - it's why I went into Professional Services / Consulting
Every "good" [ish] customer I've had has had someone there I clicked with, and added to my network - initially by taking them to lunch (go go gadget expensible meals) or grabbing beverages after work, and then up to the "want to connect on LinkedIn?" question (not as some kind of smarmy serial one-night-standist, but in a sincere manner)
And then I maintain that network through effort - I make sure I post regularly to LI; make sure I check out connections' posts periodically; for [some] folks, I add texting/calls/Slack/etc
"Real" networking takes effort (whether you're introverted or extroverted ... it's still effort)
Whether my method works for you or not, I cannot say - but it's been [apparently] successful for me so far
My "networking" started small - people I happened to know who knew people (think: parents' friends, etc)
Every job I've ever held (except one) came via "knowing someone" and/or "they found me"
That all said, I've made a concerted effort to get into roles that force me to interact with new people - it's why I went into Professional Services / Consulting
Every "good" [ish] customer I've had has had someone there I clicked with, and added to my network - initially by taking them to lunch (go go gadget expensible meals) or grabbing beverages after work, and then up to the "want to connect on LinkedIn?" question (not as some kind of smarmy serial one-night-standist, but in a sincere manner)
And then I maintain that network through effort - I make sure I post regularly to LI; make sure I check out connections' posts periodically; for [some] folks, I add texting/calls/Slack/etc
"Real" networking takes effort (whether you're introverted or extroverted ... it's still effort)
Whether my method works for you or not, I cannot say - but it's been [apparently] successful for me so far
Start by networking more with people online. If you see an insightful or interesting comment in HN, try to get their email and move the conversation to email. Email them questions and pick on their brain (people love showing off their knowledge!). Then maybe if you're in town, see if you can meet with them over coffee.
I am a mild extrovert IRL, but have become an introvert in work matters. I don't trust anyone after some bad experiences and it is ruining everything. I need to find a new situation but am haunted by past events and effectively now have no social network for work so I am dead in the water.
Damn I wish I could help you out bro. That sounds like some trauma you have from that. Have you seen a therapist? If you get diagnosed maybe you can sue those bastards, and maybe that and the therapy can bring some healing
People can be fucking horrible thats for sure
Do you got a portfolio? If you're good both at the technical aspects and being on top of meeting deadlines and being clear and forthright with clients, then you can do Upwork and eventually build a good venture from that without needing to network really. If you're not quite there yet in both the tech and client service aspects you can always practice
You can also make your Upwork account hidden so that those fuckers can't find you, while you instead approach potential clients
I hope this Baha'i quote makes you feel ennobled about yourself, and less unworthy, if that helps. Good luck, and feel free to ping me here for any tips or whatnot if you feel up for it
> O CHILDREN OF MEN! Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other. Ponder at all times in your hearts how ye were created. Since We have created you all from one same substance it is incumbent on you to be even as one soul, to walk with the same feet, eat with the same mouth and dwell in the same land, that from your inmost being, by your deeds and actions, the signs of oneness and the essence of detachment may be made manifest.
People can be fucking horrible thats for sure
Do you got a portfolio? If you're good both at the technical aspects and being on top of meeting deadlines and being clear and forthright with clients, then you can do Upwork and eventually build a good venture from that without needing to network really. If you're not quite there yet in both the tech and client service aspects you can always practice
You can also make your Upwork account hidden so that those fuckers can't find you, while you instead approach potential clients
I hope this Baha'i quote makes you feel ennobled about yourself, and less unworthy, if that helps. Good luck, and feel free to ping me here for any tips or whatnot if you feel up for it
> O CHILDREN OF MEN! Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other. Ponder at all times in your hearts how ye were created. Since We have created you all from one same substance it is incumbent on you to be even as one soul, to walk with the same feet, eat with the same mouth and dwell in the same land, that from your inmost being, by your deeds and actions, the signs of oneness and the essence of detachment may be made manifest.
Lemme guess, you had a run in with a psychopath or a narcissist
Pretty much every single time I've networked it was by mistake. I am very much an introvert but I also for some reason I'm gifted with a gift of gab. People enjoy talking to me and I'm really good at conversing. I just don't like doing it. It's overwhelming and it's a whole bunch of work. And speaking of work I'm not employed. I collect SSI because I was disabled before I turned 18... Anytime that I've tried to do job placement or just any kind of job I end up quitting or stopping going because I can't deal with all of the overwhelming signals that I'm picking up from everything or I end up thinking in my head too much.
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Sorry buddy you just have to force yourself. Never turn down an invite for a beer if you can avoid it, yes you probably have things youd rather do. It gets way easier when you become one of the usual crew. There are lots of introverts at happy hour and they are the ones who engage you on some deep level for an hour and a half vs. "Hey man how are things lately"
I've found it easiest to connect with people whose work was truly good. We'd bond over that - either trying to figure out something or simply commiserate
I'm not a social person at all, when I'm at work I'm almost a robot - here to work and go home. This angle has been key to my 'success'
I got my start in Linux through somebody I met in Counter-Strike of all places
I'm not a social person at all, when I'm at work I'm almost a robot - here to work and go home. This angle has been key to my 'success'
I got my start in Linux through somebody I met in Counter-Strike of all places
Lean into your strengths. You're more likely to invest in meaningful conversation with an individual as an introvert. How would someone taking the time to really talk and listen to you feel? Pretty good right? You'll likely have fewer contacts, but the quality of each is higher because they'll remember you.
For me, it was a performance, a role I played in my professional life. It was frequently tiring, but it led to a successful career. Being an introvert in corporate America is frequently a challenge. However, with effort and practice one can learn to navigate the swamp of corporate politics.
I have a few friends who are social "hubs." They introduce me to other people/events.
Then I go social dancing a few times a week (blues, swing dance). Might seem strange for an introvert, but it's a way to connect and meet new people without having to talk much.
Then I go social dancing a few times a week (blues, swing dance). Might seem strange for an introvert, but it's a way to connect and meet new people without having to talk much.
Get out of your comfort zone. Networking after graduating college requires effort.
Find people with similar interests and eventually you get to meet their friends too and hang out.
If you like playing multi player video games, find people to play with and connect with them.
Find people with similar interests and eventually you get to meet their friends too and hang out.
If you like playing multi player video games, find people to play with and connect with them.
Introvert doesn't mean you can't network, it just means you find it harder work than an extrovert.
Infrequently and poorly.